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Danny 117
Member
(01-18-2014, 02:48 AM)
Danny 117's Avatar
Microsoft giving people $3000 per 1m views on top of monetisation. Oh no how cruel of them.
I'd 'sell out' for 3k no problems. lol
tbm24
Member
(01-18-2014, 02:48 AM)
tbm24's Avatar

Originally Posted by LQX

Really boggles my mind as to why people would have problem with this. How is it different from say MS, Sony or even publishers paying to advertise on a site like GiantBomb or IGN?

I'm wondering the same thing. All this tells me is Microsoft is just trying to market their product in different avenues, and decided to choose one with a huge audience. What makes weirder for me is the point of those monetized channels is to make money in the first place.
GardenSirens
Banned
(01-18-2014, 02:48 AM)
Such an act of desperation.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
(01-18-2014, 02:49 AM)
Osiris's Avatar
This could be interesting... If the youtubers involved do not disclose that they have been paid to promote the products, they will be breaking the law.

"The FTC recently amended its Guides Concerning the Use of
Endorsements and Testimonials in Advertising (the “Guides”), which
address endorsements by consumers, experts, organizations, and
celebrities in advertising. The amendments, which took effect on
December 1, 2009, clarify – among other things – how the Guides
apply in the context of social and other “new media”.
The amendments to the Guides add examples to illustrate how the
longstanding requirements that “material connections”
(e.g, compensation arrangements) between advertisers and consumer
endorsers must be disclosed. Under the Guides, a material
connection is one that consumers generally would not expect and
that may affect the credibility or weight of the endorsement.
In determining whether a disclosure is required, the threshold
issue is whether an endorsement was made. If a blogger was paid
to blog about the marketer’s product, the blogger’s favorable blog
posts concerning the product will likely be considered an
endorsement under the Guides."

So, which youtubers do you dislike that you fancy getting into legal hot-water?, watch out for a Xbox related video and report it to the FTC :P
dzelly
Member
(01-18-2014, 02:49 AM)
dzelly's Avatar
$3 cpm is pretty nuts
BlackBuzzard
Member
(01-18-2014, 02:49 AM)
BlackBuzzard's Avatar
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
(01-18-2014, 02:49 AM)
Slayer-33's Avatar

Originally Posted by GardenSirens

Such an act of desperation.

Desperate for what? lol Last I checked they have sold XBO well
RELIGHT
Banned
(01-18-2014, 02:50 AM)

Originally Posted by Osiris

This could be interesting... If the youtubers involved do not disclose that they have been paid to promote the products, they will be breaking the law.

"The FTC recently amended its Guides Concerning the Use of
Endorsements and Testimonials in Advertising (the “Guides”), which
address endorsements by consumers, experts, organizations, and
celebrities in advertising. The amendments, which took effect on
December 1, 2009, clarify – among other things – how the Guides
apply in the context of social and other “new media”.
The amendments to the Guides add examples to illustrate how the
longstanding requirements that “material connections”
(e.g, compensation arrangements) between advertisers and consumer
endorsers must be disclosed. Under the Guides, a material
connection is one that consumers generally would not expect and
that may affect the credibility or weight of the endorsement.
In determining whether a disclosure is required, the threshold
issue is whether an endorsement was made. If a blogger was paid
to blog about the marketer’s product, the blogger’s favorable blog
posts concerning the product will likely be considered an
endorsement under the Guides."

So, which youtubers do you dislike that you fancy reporting to the FTC?, watch out for a Xbox related video and report it to the FTC :P

The plot thickens.
Tsundere
Banned
(01-18-2014, 02:50 AM)
lol

Microsoft in a nutshell.
TeRey09
Member
(01-18-2014, 02:50 AM)
TeRey09's Avatar
What do Youtubers who have sponsors like Netflix, Hulu, and Squarespace get for the ads is their vids?
tbm24
Member
(01-18-2014, 02:50 AM)
tbm24's Avatar

Originally Posted by Osiris

This could be interesting... If the youtubers involved do not disclose that they have been paid to promote the products, they will be breaking the law.

"The FTC recently amended its Guides Concerning the Use of
Endorsements and Testimonials in Advertising (the “Guides”), which
address endorsements by consumers, experts, organizations, and
celebrities in advertising. The amendments, which took effect on
December 1, 2009, clarify – among other things – how the Guides
apply in the context of social and other “new media”.
The amendments to the Guides add examples to illustrate how the
longstanding requirements that “material connections”
(e.g, compensation arrangements) between advertisers and consumer
endorsers must be disclosed. Under the Guides, a material
connection is one that consumers generally would not expect and
that may affect the credibility or weight of the endorsement.
In determining whether a disclosure is required, the threshold
issue is whether an endorsement was made. If a blogger was paid
to blog about the marketer’s product, the blogger’s favorable blog
posts concerning the product will likely be considered an
endorsement under the Guides."

So, which youtubers do you dislike that you fancy reporting to the FTC?, watch out for a Xbox related video and report it to the FTC :P

Seems like this has escalated already.
_hekk05
Banned
(01-18-2014, 02:51 AM)

Originally Posted by LQX

Really boggles my mind as to why people would have problem with this. How is it different from say MS, Sony or even publishers paying to advertise on a site like GiantBomb or IGN?

When its an advertisement, you would know that such a message is being delivered to you from MS. Besides, we all know if you see an ad on youtube you just skip when 5 seconds are up. Or use ad block plus.

If the youtuber himself is promoting xbone in his videos without disclosing his financial relationship with MS, and getting money from MS for his troubles, that is certainly astroturfing.
Iacobellis
Junior Member
(01-18-2014, 02:51 AM)
Iacobellis's Avatar

Originally Posted by JerC

Hopefully not. Sony's PR is tolerable right now. No need to make it worse.

Larry isn't terrible, the whole PR plan for the Xbox One was just a mess.
RELIGHT
Banned
(01-18-2014, 02:51 AM)

Originally Posted by TeRey09

What do Youtubers who have sponsors like Netflix, Hulu, and Squarespace get for the ads is their vids?

They get ad revenue. But they don't choose the ads and they aren't paid for promoting anything themselves.
Uno Venova
(01-18-2014, 02:51 AM)
Uno Venova's Avatar

Originally Posted by Slayer-33

Desperate for what? lol Last I checked they have sold XBO well

More positive mindshare on this website I'm guessing.
xxracerxx
Banned
(01-18-2014, 02:51 AM)
xxracerxx's Avatar
Shit..being snarky again.
gemoran4
Member
(01-18-2014, 02:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by la flama blanca

smart, but smells of desperation

I don't think so at all. I actually think it's a fairly low risk and shrewd idea by Microsoft. Basically you can have a 10 different videos with just over 100,000 views and Microsoft would have only had to pay $300 (each) for it. Hell to get a full page ad on the Wall Street Journal costs about $164,000 (B&W) and $92,000 for a half page ad, and that gets circulated to about 2.5 million customers. Equivalently 2.5 million views from youtube videos promoting Xbox One would cost Microsoft about $2,500. It's not desperate, it (from my untrained eye) is actually pretty smart.

Sources for Ad cost/circulation number (i know wiki isn't reliable but i was being lazy looking up their circulation numbers):
http://www.gaebler.com/Newspaper-Advertising-Costs.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wal...rc-march2013-1
Duxxy3
Member
(01-18-2014, 02:52 AM)
Duxxy3's Avatar

Originally Posted by tbm24

I'm wondering the same thing. All this tells me is Microsoft is just trying to market their product in different avenues, and decided to choose one with a huge audience. What makes weirder for me is the point of those monetized channels is to make money in the first place.

It's the same as astroturfing on neogaf (or at least they tried for a little while).
dmr87
Member
(01-18-2014, 02:52 AM)
dmr87's Avatar
Have a problem? Throw money at it.
Orayn
Member
(01-18-2014, 02:53 AM)
Orayn's Avatar
Just talked to a friend of mine who's a Machinima partner, he says that these kinds of promotions are for a limited amount of money and the biggest channels in the network tend to gobble it up pretty quickly. Doesn't that just warm your heart?
HariKari
Member
(01-18-2014, 02:54 AM)
HariKari's Avatar

Originally Posted by gemoran4

I don't think so at all.

We aren't talking about traditional ad spend here, from the sounds of it. That door has always been open to MS. They don't need specific youtubers for that. It's buying positive mention.
jem0208
Member
(01-18-2014, 02:54 AM)
jem0208's Avatar

Originally Posted by _hekk05

When its an advertisement, you would know that such a message is being delivered to you from MS. Besides, we all know if you see an ad on youtube you just skip when 5 seconds are up. Or use ad block plus.

If the youtuber himself is promoting xbone in his videos without disclosing his financial relationship with MS, and getting money from MS for his troubles, that is certainly astroturfing.

Do we know what they mean by promote? Seems like you're assuming the worst.
tbm24
Member
(01-18-2014, 02:54 AM)
tbm24's Avatar

Originally Posted by Duxxy3

It's the same as astroturfing on neogaf (or at least they tried for a little while).

Well I don't know what that was about, but before claiming astroturfing, it would help to see what would qualify as the kind of video that Microsoft will add cpm to and to see what people do with it. Claiming illegal practices right off the bat is leaping ahead right away just for the sake of it.
Anticitizen One
Banned
(01-18-2014, 02:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by Slayer-33

Desperate for what? lol Last I checked they have sold XBO well

define "well"
tbm24
Member
(01-18-2014, 02:55 AM)
tbm24's Avatar

Originally Posted by Anticitizen One

Not really

Pretty sure it's selling well. As much as you may want to belittle it.
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
(01-18-2014, 02:55 AM)
Slayer-33's Avatar

Originally Posted by Anticitizen One

define "well"

A $500 machine (with a ton of negative press piggied back before lauch) sold nearly as much as a $400 one (in the main target market)

The sky isn't falling over @ MS. Not even close.

This is called pushing the momentum forward.
Last edited by Slayer-33; 01-18-2014 at 02:59 AM.
fader
Member
(01-18-2014, 02:56 AM)
fader's Avatar
pretty disgusting business practice imo.
LiLSnorpSnorp
Member
(01-18-2014, 02:56 AM)

Originally Posted by Anticitizen One

define "well"

Over three million consoles. Just because PS4 sold more doesn't mean the Xbox hasn't sold well, because it has
HawksWinStanley
Member
(01-18-2014, 02:57 AM)
HawksWinStanley's Avatar
If this is legit it comes across as kind of pathetic.
GribbleGrunger
Junior Member
(01-18-2014, 02:57 AM)
GribbleGrunger's Avatar
And of course all those sites that accept this 'bribe' will stop promoting the PS4
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
(01-18-2014, 02:58 AM)
Osiris's Avatar
So, lets see what the FTC have to say, in their own words:

Guides Concerning the Use of Endorsements and Testimonials in Advertising

Yep, look at Section 255.5, if they don't disclose that they have been materially compensated for the promotion, they have broken the law.

Interestingly, Example 7 is specifically about Video Games & Videogame hardware.
Oh, let the games begin. :D
Anticitizen One
Banned
(01-18-2014, 02:58 AM)
Anticitizen One's Avatar

Originally Posted by mouzaihem

Over three million consoles. Just because PS4 sold more doesn't mean the Xbox hasn't sold well, because it has

I don't think that is including the huge volume of returns. Let's wait a few more months and see what the install base is then.
Uno Venova
(01-18-2014, 02:59 AM)
Uno Venova's Avatar

Originally Posted by Slayer-33

A $500 machine (with a ton of negative press piggied back before lauch) sold nearly as much as a $400 one (in the main target market)

The sky isn't falling over @ MS. Not even close.

I was going to say 3 million isn't near to 4, but you edited to a US focus.

Originally Posted by Orayn

Just talked to a friend of mine who's a Machinima partner, he says that these kinds of promotions are for a limited amount of money and the biggest channels in the network tend to gobble it up pretty quickly. Doesn't that just warm your heart?

And I'm guessing they don't have to disclose their positive impressions are paid for like with BF4.
Raitosaito
Member
(01-18-2014, 02:59 AM)
Raitosaito's Avatar
Wait, youtubers already peddle and promote things all the time without showing outward preference for them.

I mean, I've seen enough rev3 videos talking about gamefly or netflix to last me 2 lifetimes.

This isn't a big deal.
Tsundere
Banned
(01-18-2014, 02:59 AM)

Originally Posted by tbm24

Seems like this has escalated already.

This is going to be fun.
BlackBuzzard
Member
(01-18-2014, 02:59 AM)
BlackBuzzard's Avatar

Originally Posted by Osiris

So, lets see what the FTC have to say, in their own words:

Guides Concerning the Use of Endorsements and Testimonials in Advertising

Yep, look at Section 255.5, if they don't disclose that they have been materially compensated for the promotion, they have broken the law.

Interestingly, Example 7 is specifically about Video Games & Videogame hardware.
Oh, let the games begin. :D

Lol lets see some sellouts breaking the law.
Iacobellis
Junior Member
(01-18-2014, 02:59 AM)
Iacobellis's Avatar

Originally Posted by Anticitizen One

I don't think that is including the huge volume of returns. Let's wait a few more months and see what the install base is then.

True story, the day after Christmas, I saw a man return two Xbox Ones at GameStop. I wish I took a photo, but we were just leaving the store.
Funchameleon
Banned
(01-18-2014, 03:00 AM)
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$3/CPM is suuuuuuuper cheap considering what they're asking. This isn't an ad in the corner of some website, it's a minor celebrity basically endorsing the product. The related message is stronger than any typical impression. It feels really desperate for that reason.
TheRagnCajun
(01-18-2014, 03:00 AM)
Pretty cheap advertising for MS I guess. The question is, who's willing to sell out?
Omega
Banned
(01-18-2014, 03:01 AM)
Omega's Avatar

Originally Posted by slothmoney

do I have to promote it positively? I'd love to see the fall out of that if it's not in the fine print.

pro·mote
prəˈmōt/
verb
verb: promote; 3rd person present: promotes; past tense: promoted; past participle: promoted; gerund or present participle: promoting

1.
further the progress of (something, esp. a cause, venture, or aim); support or actively encourage.
"some regulation is still required to promote competition

2.
advance or raise (someone) to a higher position or rank.
"she was promoted to general manager"
tbm24
Member
(01-18-2014, 03:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by Funchameleon

$3/CPM is suuuuuuuper cheap considering what they're asking. This isn't an ad in the corner of some website, it's a minor celebrity basically endorsing the product. The related message is stronger than any typical impression. It feels really desperate for that reason.

Seems like a good advertisement opportunity than desperation. Unless I'm missing the point of marketing.
Goldmund
Member
(01-18-2014, 03:03 AM)
Goldmund's Avatar
Let's get some positive buzz going, Microsoft!
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
(01-18-2014, 03:04 AM)
Osiris's Avatar
Might as well go the whole distance and get the full facts from the FTC.

So I've just fired off an email, lets see what their response is, I suggest others, specifically from the US, do the same as I'm a Brit and they may not respond to me :D
djshauny
Banned
(01-18-2014, 03:04 AM)
Jesus....
LiLSnorpSnorp
Member
(01-18-2014, 03:04 AM)

Originally Posted by Anticitizen One

I don't think that is including the huge volume of returns. Let's wait a few more months and see what the install base is then.

What is your basis for the huge amount of returns..? I'm sure there are people who purchased the console and didn't like it, but there have been no very large issues to merit a huge amount of returns. Personally I have both, and I believe whichever console a consumer chooses-they got a good console, and both companies should and will continue to see success throughout the generation.
Effnine
Member
(01-18-2014, 03:05 AM)
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The fact that some people in this thread can't understand what is wrong with this is goddamn scary ...
SneakyStephan
Banned
(01-18-2014, 03:06 AM)
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Today's new low is sponsored by microsoft
Salex_
Member
(01-18-2014, 03:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by Slayer-33

Desperate for what? lol Last I checked they have sold XBO well

Depends on how you define "well". People are forgetting that the 360 outsold the PS3 by around 15 million in the US and had a good lead in the UK. Now? They're clearly losing in the Uk and they have a lower LTD in the US. NPD showed that the results were close even though the PS4 is sold out everywhere in the US and MS has plenty of supply in the US. All of this is occuring after the claims of retail launch lineups being so important. What will happen when the price starts to matter in the upcoming months and the post launch exclusives come out?

Statistics are fun to observe!
Austriacus
Member
(01-18-2014, 03:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by BPoole

Sucks this happened on a Friday, now we have to wait until Monday to ehar him go off about it lol

The only thing ive ever seen Totalbiscuit promote are indie games, besides, he runs a pc gaming channel its against his interest that people play on consoles.
Sons Of Anarchy
Banned
(01-18-2014, 03:08 AM)

Originally Posted by Slayer-33

A $500 machine (with a ton of negative press piggied back before lauch) sold nearly as much as a $400 one (in the main target market)

The sky isn't falling over @ MS. Not even close.

This is called pushing the momentum forward.

Winning one month isn't gonna change anything in the long run.

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