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Blam · Sep 21, 2017

Horp said:
Seriously!? In what universe!
Obviously Destiny does numerous things better than those games, but the gunplay??
No, I don't believe you.
Either you didn't play those games, or you're talking out of your ass.

Warframe is way too samey, you're 100% right. But the movement and progression is much better and deeper, respectively.

Sure but movement doesn't equate to the guns feeling good. Not saying the Guns don't feel good they do. In both games gunplay is pretty good and each weapon feels different then the other one.

But progression in Warframe is a fucking grind and a half.

BigEmil · Sep 21, 2017

The Last Wizard said:
And its lacking heavily on endgame content.

To convince you more to buy the DLC's

EloquentM · Sep 21, 2017

A lot of the discussion in this thread is weird and riddled with shitposts. I agree with you though OP replaying story missions and adding higher difficulty modifier to all missions would be a great addition. They could even attach some kind of reward to it though it seems like that would mess up the economy theyve established in this game.

JWiLL · Sep 21, 2017

Blam said:
But progression in Warframe is a fucking grind and a half.

Of course it is...it's literally a free to play game.

At the same time - there's an incredible depth to the mod system and they're constantly adding more ways to customize/build your Frames. The way you can mix/match elemental mods to create new elements is fantastic.

I wish Destiny had even a fraction of that. Obviously I don't expect the same depth, as it needs to be more accessible to casual players, but the fact that a team of 170 devs seem to do more than a massive studio with a huge budget behind them has to be commended.

They also had a perfect opportunity to give us ship interiors in D2 like Warframe has. The Director is a great addition for moving around more quickly, but the "go to orbit" could have been "go to your ship" this time around, then they could have sold us more ship goodies at Eververse. Hell, that's a way to add more Eververse stuff that the community would probably swallow more easily.

kingslunk · Sep 21, 2017

The D2 acronym is reserved for eternity for Diablo 2.

qa_engineer · Sep 21, 2017

The story was seemingly designed so that people could breeze through it and get to level 20 quickly, and therefore get into end game content. I had no idea what was happening half the time in the story--much like the first game it was a process of fast traveling to a planet, go here and kill this, scan this thing, kill some more things, rinse and repeat.

Mossybrew · Sep 21, 2017

renzolama said:
Interesting, since it's almost exactly the same as the startgame content

Oh man, a new flashpoint this week, it's gonna be sick! Oh...it's just grinding a few mechanically shallow public events I've already done four dozen times
Well, at least I can hit up the heroic strike playlist! Oh...there's no heroic playlist and the rewards from the regular playlist are useless
This Call to Arms thing sounds awesome though, what kind of interesting endgame crucible challenge awaits me here? Oh, it's just grinding crucible for 90 minutes which will likely not even reward you enough tokens to exchange for a single legendary engram containing another shitty armor piece below your current power level.

Yeah, the endgame in Destiny 2 is amazing

Haha, yeah, it's pretty disappointing really.

jviggy43 · Sep 21, 2017

zelas said:
That's what the person you quoted was talking about. It's what my original post was getting at too. Not all pre-end game content is a cakewalk AND its available alongside the story. You chiming in that the content was easy for you MUCH later in the game is off base.

Those events have a power level above level 10 or 11, you known that right? They get even higher when they become heroic modifiers which means you're not leveled properly to be doing them when they first become available to you. The raid becomes available before you reach it's suggested level. Should a group of 260s attempt the raid? Probably not. That's such a stupid suggestion.

But even better, it doesn't matter for cabal heroic events what level you are, if you join a public event you LITERALLY can't lose. You can die over and over again and so long as you don't leave before the time runs up you get a completion with a reward for sticking around. So if anything this just extends the original argument about this being too easy. You don't even have to actually do anything to achieve public event victories and rewards because the game let's you auto win regardless of performance.

EloquentM said:
A lot of the discussion in this thread is weird and riddled with shitposts. I agree with you though OP replaying story missions and adding higher difficulty modifier to all missions would be a great addition. They could even attach some kind of reward to it though it seems like that would mess up the economy theyve established in this game.

Agreed. In the article i posted the author brought up that in D1 adding a difficulty modifier rewarded you with better rewards which would be nice.

Weltall Zero · Sep 21, 2017

Modern MMO design evolution in a nutshell, make all of the 1-max level content as braindead easy as possible, then make only end game content challenging. One of the reason I stopped playing MMOs. "The game starts at cap level" is one of my most hated statements about a game.

sponk said:
Oh, it's not about Divinity 2. Nevermind.

What does it say about me that my first thought was Diablo 2? And I don't even like Diablo..

Morrigan Stark · Sep 21, 2017

serenewarfare said:
I mean, that's what loot games eventually have to devolve into.

People love Diablo 3, but its endgame is conceptually much the same. You are repeating the same stuff over and over again to grind out for better stuff. The only difference is the difficulty modifiers and the odd goblin to spice things up.

If you don't want a grind in the endgame, you are playing the wrong type of game.

Why does it have to devolve into that though? Why can't it have a proper campaign? Borderlands games do it well. They have the end-game shenanigans for those who enjoy that grindy stuff, but they have a meaty campaign that isn't a complete cakewalk (though the level balance isn't great, as the game tends to become a bit too easy if you get over-levelled from all the side-quests, but it's not brain-dead like Diablo 3 or, apparently, Destiny 2). Dragon's Crown also does it pretty well, and both those games have NG+ and NG++ difficulties too.

I guess having a loot game with a meaty campaign is too much to ask nowadays. :\

Durante said:
Ok, we have to clarify one thing quickly here:
D2, in a gaming context, is, and will always be, Diablo 2. Go find another acronym for your newfangled sci-fi pseudo-MMO.

Pfft, the actual game called "D2" pre-dates Diablo 2!

Symbiotx · Sep 21, 2017

I think the story is fine if you play it solo. It's really not insanely easy, but it's not super hard, it's just fun which is how the story should be. It's entertaining and easy to pick up for people who are new.

What I think they really need to do is up the difficulty on Adventures and Lost Sectors. If they made Adventures be end-game and really hard, it would be a reason to re-visit all these places and learn more, while also being a difficult challenge. Currently, you just outlevel them and never play most because there's no reason.

I swear though, all the shitposts and nitpicking about difficulty for the campaign are such tired debates. The name Destiny makes every little thing a big deal, especially when it's subjective opinions about things. It's a great game that could be even better with further changes. It's had an awesome start and will get better over time.

Symbiotx · Sep 21, 2017

renzolama said:
Interesting, since it's almost exactly the same as the startgame content

Oh man, a new flashpoint this week, it's gonna be sick! Oh...it's just grinding a few mechanically shallow public events I've already done four dozen times
Well, at least I can hit up the heroic strike playlist! Oh...there's no heroic playlist and the rewards from the regular playlist are useless
This Call to Arms thing sounds awesome though, what kind of interesting endgame crucible challenge awaits me here? Oh, it's just grinding crucible for 90 minutes which will likely not even reward you enough tokens to exchange for a single legendary engram containing another shitty armor piece below your current power level.

Yeah, the endgame in Destiny 2 is amazing

Conveniently leaving out the raid and trials. If you think Destiny 2 is a cakewalk, I know you haven't tried these activities. There's a reason there's really difficult end-game activities and easy campaign. Different audiences, different activities and reasons to play.

Soul of the Beast · Sep 21, 2017

What do you expect for a game that's made ''for everyone''?

katsais · Sep 21, 2017

True. Frankly, this is one of the reason why it appeals to me. I'm supposed to be a space cowboys of some sort, and powerful. Whenever I play PvE, I just want to sit back and shoot enemies. Strikes are easy, patrols are easy. Love it.

If I want a challenge, I'll hit up the Nightfall, which can be frustrating at times, but rewarding (with the right modifiers). I can also hit up the Raid, and find a challenge as well. I want to take it up a notch? Let's do these in Prestige mode.

The hard difficulties are there, or if I want to chill and game, that is also there. I don't get why people complain about the difficulty of the game, the game is supposed to appeal to broad spectrum of players...from teens to the elderly even. Plus, I love the fact that I can Power up in a variety of ways...from farming engrams to raiding. It is there.

The Last Wizard · Sep 21, 2017

qa_engineer said:
The story was seemingly designed so that people could breeze through it and get to level 20 quickly, and therefore get into end game content. I had no idea what was happening half the time in the story--much like the first game it was a process of fast traveling to a planet, go here and kill this, scan this thing, kill some more things, rinse and repeat.

Shoveling us into the endgame to do what though? Play content that was already playable save the raid.

Wamb0wneD · Sep 21, 2017

Strakt said:
Holy shit you're still at it. You asked for an explanation on why and you still want me to go further when this has nothing to do with the OP's question. At the end of the day , I think you're just salty that Destiny does better than the games you play

Thats you summed up in one post. Stay salty homie.

You sure showed him by refuting any of his points.

Strakt · Sep 21, 2017

Wamb0wneD said:
You sure showed him by refuting any of his points.

Theres no need to refute any points when I already expressed my opinion on why I PERSONALLY think the gun play in Destiny is amazing. I never state anything as a fact in my previous response to him, so when you get questioned even further on an opinion after explaining WHY you think something is good, you start to realize that person is just seeking attention or just walks around with a negative mindset. At the end of the day, he's just ignorant and i accept him for who he is.

Horp · Sep 21, 2017

Strakt said:
Theres no need to refute any points when I already expressed my opinion on why I PERSONALLY think the gun play in Destiny is amazing. I never state anything as a fact in my previous response to him, so when you get questioned even further on an opinion after explaining WHY you think something is good, you start to realize that person is just seeking attention or just walks around with a negative mindset. At the end of the day, he's just ignorant and i accept him for who he is.

I have no problems whatsoever with you personally thinking that. No problems at all, why would I?
My posts was about the general fact, not personal, that people here on this board and on many other sites (forums and reviews alike) hail destiny for being best/great/better-than-its-peers on aspects XYZ, and how I find that strange - for those aspects XYZ. I continued by saying that the responses I've generally seen to "back" the claims are often vague.

Then you listed a few reasons why you think the gunplay is awesome (and thank you for doing that, as that is pretty much exactly what I wanted); to which I answered: "This, I dont get". I said *I*. I went through your "list" and one by one I explained why I didnt think it made sense as an argument.

Then, you could have replied by answering my, in many case direct, questions to your list; or justsay that you either really just dont agree with my points.

But instead it was memes n salt, memes and salt.

And *I'm* the ignorant one. Yeah, thanks.

grfunkulus said:
What? TF2 was a big improvement on TF1 in terms of weapon feel but those guys haven't even caught up to the last game the studio made (or mostly made) MW2. And BF1? lmfao

And Doom gunplay is solid and fluid but boring after an hour. I don't want to shoot the same 9 guns I've been shooting in pc shooters since the dawn of time.

Yeah man, gimme:
Assault rifles
Revolvers
Shotguns
Sniper rifles
Rocker launchers

Oh yeah thats right, there's the fusion rifle. I guess that's new, but it's not because it was almost identical in Destiny 1.

grfunkulus · Sep 21, 2017

JWiLL said:
Just to be clear, I love Destiny, but Titanfall 2 is on another level mechanically speaking - from gunplay to movement.

That's compared to every FPS out there, not just Destiny

What? TF2 was a big improvement on TF1 in terms of weapon feel but those guys haven't even caught up to the last game the studio made (or mostly made) MW2. And BF1? lmfao

And Doom gunplay is solid and fluid but boring after an hour. I don't want to shoot the same 9 guns I've been shooting in pc shooters since the dawn of time.

grfunkulus · Sep 21, 2017

JWiLL said:
Just to be clear, I love Destiny, but Titanfall 2 is on another level mechanically speaking - from gunplay to movement.

That's compared to every FPS out there, not just Destiny

Horp said:
I have no problems whatsoever with you personally thinking that. No problems at all, why would I?
My posts was about the general fact, not personal, that people here on this board and on many other sites (forums and reviews alike) hail destiny for being best/great/better-than-its-peers on aspects XYZ, and how I find that strange - for those aspects XYZ. I continued by saying that the responses I've generally seen to "back" the claims are often vague.

Then you listed a few reasons why you think the gunplay is awesome (and thank you for doing that, as that is pretty much exactly what I wanted); to which I answered: "This, I dont get". I said *I*. I went through your "list" and one by one I explained why I didnt think it made sense as an argument.

Then, you could have replied by answering my, in many case direct, questions to your list; or justsay that you either really just dont agree with my points.

But instead it was memes n salt, memes and salt.

And *I'm* the ignorant one. Yeah, thanks.

Yeah man, gimme:
Assault rifles
Revolvers
Shotguns
Sniper rifles
Rocker launchers

Oh yeah thats right, there's the fusion rifle. I guess that's new, but it's not because it was almost identical in Destiny 1.

Line rifles? Grenade launchers? SMGs? All new to Destiny and this *type* of shooter.

Doom (and other arena PC shooters) have used the same weapon wheel, same weak starting pistol, and same weapon progression for years. At least that's the way it feels.

Horp · Sep 21, 2017

grfunkulus said:
Line rifles? Grenade launchers? SMGs? All new to Destiny and this *type* of shooter.

Doom (and other arena PC shooters) have used the same weapon wheel, same weak starting pistol, and same weapon progression for years. At least that's the way it feels.

New to Destiny wasn't what you were talking about. You said "the same guns I've been shooting in pc shooters".

And let's get this straight:
there are many MANY MANY more games with arsenals similar to Destiny on ALL platforms, than Doom. How many games have
a plasma rifle with stunbomb/charge up
a minigun which can work as a mobile turret,
a charge-up gauss gun which you can use as a stand-still ballista for one shots
the BFG
a shotgun with burst fire
a chain saw that acts as an ultimate and gives you ammo from kills

You're doing the same -exact- thing my initial post in this thread is all about: you bring up something that really isn't a strength in Destiny, and say it's better than games that have been praised for exactly that. That strength in this case being an innovative arsenal. Compared to f*cking Doom 2016, which reinvented an entire genre that has lied dormant for ages.

To the others not agreeing with me before:
Do you see now what I'm talking about? Please? At least a little?

WilsonX100 · Sep 21, 2017

Wolfgunblood Garopa said:
I think of Destiny's PvE like a Halo MMO, .

this is basically what it is

border · Sep 21, 2017

Seriously -- what is the point is a feature-by-feature comparison of Doom and Destiny? Like, what in god's name could you hope to prove?

UpDownLeftRight · Sep 21, 2017

Horp said:
Haha. No. Not in the slightest. I truly can't even comprehend you feel that.

You clearly missed the second part of that and the entire point. Your argument is flawed in that you haven't even played the game and cite false info you crafted as fact.

Haly · Sep 21, 2017

*adds fuel to the fire*

The "gunplay" in Warframe isn't great but the customization is miles beyond what I saw from the Destiny 2 beta. Here's what my frame collection looks like in Warframe.

Each frame has its own skill set, animations, and usually 2-3 viable builds, gameplay niches, etc. Was really disappointed to learn Destiny 2 has only 3 "classes" and no plans for more.

Also I can recolor them at will.

Syril · Sep 21, 2017

Horp said:
Awesome, I'm getting some actual why:s!
Ok I see what you're coming from. Those ARE strengths. Far from being enough to live up to some of the claims you see on here (I've heard many posters say Destiny has the best gunplay ever, while others just say it's super-awesome).
It's decent. Your arguments make it sound decent, instead of just bad.
That's my opinon, of course.

Thanks for your post.

Also, regarding the "feel" of gunplay, the emphasis on consistent recoil patterns for each weapon adds to it by allowing you to compensate consistently by adjusting your aim while firing, making the act of firing guns more involved than just pointing and shooting. This also plays into the emphasis on precision hits by making it possible to land long strings of precision hits without having to slow your rate of fire if you're good enough at handling the recoil, giving the shooting itself something of a skill ceiling. It's the only shooter I've played where I actually like using burst fire weapons because of it. The animation and sound on the weapons are good too, but it's not like it's all smoke and mirrors or anything.

Taliban Stan · Sep 21, 2017

A lot of people would find the fun version of Mario to be the one where he gets the princess jump so there's no worries about platforming and he has infinite star mode so he can't take any damage and no longer has to worry about enemies.

Some people like seeing a level and the stuff in it but playing it is kinda the annoying part and the gatekeeper to fun. Some really like the challenge and easy mode is the gatekeeper to fun.

I think D2 appealed to one group at the sacrifice of the other or figured the other would slog through the campaign with the knowledge that "no no, eventually we stop going out of our way to make the game bad for you."

I don't understand why selectable difficulty was seen as being of the devil for this game, but ehh, life I guess.

sn00zer · Sep 21, 2017

I love PVE but I agree that there is an insane difficulty spike with the cooler stuff like raids.

ZeoVGM · Sep 21, 2017

Lanrutcon said:
The vast majority of who? Destiny 1.5 hasn't even been out long enough to leave the crib.

Ah, no bias and bitterness here at all.

You should probably get used to this now. You'll be seeing "D2" in relation to Destiny 2 for the next three years. A lot.

Takuan · Sep 21, 2017

psyfi said:
I love D2, but it's definitely pretty mindless. I have to be in the right mood for it. More often than not, I want something that feels less rote.

I'm the reverse - after a day of work I typically want something mindless, and D2 is the perfect remedy.

Edit: Actually, it looks like I'm the same boat, just that I'm often in the mood for braindead shooting! Heh.

pompidu · Sep 21, 2017

Strakt said:
Holy shit you're still at it. You asked for an explanation on why and you still want me to go further when this has nothing to do with the OP's question. At the end of the day , I think you're just salty that Destiny does better than the games you play

Thats you summed up in one post. Stay salty homie.

Holy shit that gif is cringy.

Wassup with emotes in this game? What's the appeal of them? Asking honestly cause they add nothing valuable to the game. am i old man yelling at clouds over here?

Ivory Samoan · Sep 21, 2017

HiredN00bs said:
Dude, I died plenty of times in the campaign and the open world. No idea what easy mode people are talking about. Are they forgetting all the times they died or wiped? Show me their stats.

Same here, and I go pretty darn good in the Crucible and NF/Raids lol.

Then again, I kind of yolo in the campaign cause why not

qa_engineer · Sep 22, 2017

The Last Wizard said:
Shoveling us into the endgame to do what though? Play content that was already playable save the raid.

Nightfall (Normal) and Nightfall 300, Raid, and Trials of the 9? Can't really do that until you've gone through the story and unlocked parts of the game.

blue_phazon · Sep 22, 2017

pompidu said:
Holy shit that gif is cringy.

Wassup with emotes in this game? What's the appeal of them? Asking honestly cause they add nothing valuable to the game. am i old man yelling at clouds over here?

Yes, you are an old man yelling at clouds and you probably hate fun

Bold One · Sep 22, 2017

Haly said:
*adds fuel to the fire*

The "gunplay" in Warframe isn't great but the customization is miles beyond what I saw from the Destiny 2 beta. Here's what my frame collection looks like in Warframe.

Each frame has its own skill set, animations, and usually 2-3 viable builds, gameplay niches, etc. Was really disappointed to learn Destiny 2 has only 3 "classes" and no plans for more.

Also I can recolor them at will.

Played a lot of warframe, love it. But it's a completely different game to Destiny with completely different targets and goals.

Twilight Gap · Sep 22, 2017

Horp said:
Heard the tale of The Emperors New Clothes?
The whole Destiny franchise is like that. It's like... everyone fooling themselves that these are some kind of giant, lore filled, deep games with "best shooting ever". While in reality they are like halo coop with hubs and repeating levels. I'm honestly baffled so many people praise these moderate games.

Horp said:
That's not ignorance. Many people love the game, and im fine with that, but how it's hailed as being grand, deep and have gunplay that sets it apart is just not true. The game isn't huge, the story and character progression isn't deep and the gunplay isn't vasty different than its peers.

My post wasn't even about liking/not-liking. It was about specific aspects of destiny being presented as being much more grand than they objectively are, compared to other games
Then I went on and said that *I* cant understand why people love it so much.

But yay, defence force assemble bro

Your claims seem unsubstantiated to me. Destiny has never been propped up to the way you describe - not outside of its gunplay and art direction, which are the only universally praised elements of the game. Everything else has either been widely panned our downright trashed.

And yet people still play and the game is still a success. Why? Perhaps if you tried to understand it for a minute, you would find that there are people who like Destiny for Destiny, and there are others who like the game in spite of itself because of what else it offers - chiefly, the social element. Personally, I like where franchise could be, and it's close enough to be more compelling to me than the competitors you've listed. Warframe bored me relatively quick, yet the most boring elements of Destiny can hold my interest for weeks. That could (and in some ways, it did) change; nevertheless, you'd either have to be ignorant or disingenuous to claim people are fooling themselves into liking a game that currently occupies a niche that is in its infancy. In fact, it's that very reason why it has so many passionate fans who want it to be better.

T.O.P · Sep 22, 2017

Strakt said:
Holy shit you're still at it. You asked for an explanation on why and you still want me to go further when this has nothing to do with the OP's question. At the end of the day , I think you're just salty that Destiny does better than the games you play

Thats you summed up in one post. Stay salty homie.

Not the first time that i post this, but holy shit i'm worried about joining the Destiny 2 community in October, just for these kind of fanboys

Bold One · Sep 22, 2017

T.O.P said:
Not the first time that i post this, but holy shit i'm worried about joining the Destiny 2 community in October, just for these kind of fanboys

Yes, that one post is wholly representative of the entire community.

Strakt · Sep 22, 2017

T.O.P said:
Not the first time that i post this, but holy shit i'm worried about joining the Destiny 2 community in October, just for these kind of fanboys

Yea because i totally posted that comment out of the blue; not my fault i called someone who tried to challenge an OPINION salty

Maybe you should open your eyes and actually read the context of the post that goes back a couple pages (that doesn't even correlate to this topic in the first place) and try and teach that person how to accept someones opinion.

You should also look up the term fanboy because you clearly don't know what it means

Bolivar687 · Sep 22, 2017

When all you have is a nail gun, every problem looks like a balloon.

Papo Swing · Sep 22, 2017

Well, my opinion on this...

I love Destiny 1 and 2. With 2 I've played less, but mostly because I don't feel the pressure to have to complete everything before reset. REwards and loot drops have been a lot better and I've gotten to light level 287 in the first week.

I don't mind that the game is easy before 20 because after 20 you can have some really rough times and the gunplay is so good that even if it was harder it would still feel like a version of "popping balloons with a nail gun"

Now my complaints....As good as the story was versus the first game, as good as the character development and interaction is the campaign was still crap. I would say not counting the cutscenes and more narrative aspects of it that 1 was a lot better.

I think the problem with the story is the scale or the sense of it. YOu get this big attack and an amazing intro mission showing you the stakes...but then it falls flat. Then you only see like the Guardians are made up of like 20 people. The big bad guys big plans fall flat and he spends the campaign moodily talking with the Speaker and ignoring his "quest". The enemy itself seems unaware of you as a treat and liek you infiltrate the big secret spots wihtout them even caring/noticing. It really is a bummer because the story started really amazingly. That intro and first couple of missions until the farm were great.

The game is awesome and I love it so far. Music is amazing! Gameplay/Gunplay is as fun as ever, but the scale and story leave a lot to be desired and it make me and a lot of people rush through the story to get something better at then end and be left wanting more.

I guess to end my post I feel with how the characters and story carries itself I felt this needed as campaing that was as short and sweet as Titanfall 2, but what we got was kind of shitty in content.

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