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In 2017, Peter Parker isn't really an underdog anymore

Just thinking about how Peter is depicted these days; between being a corporate mascot in a constant state of arrested development and more focus on social demographics and representation, Peter really isn't much of an underdog these days is he?

Even the things the made him a underdog in the 60s, just aren't emphasized in the most modern versions of the character.

In Spider-Man: Homecoming, Peter Parker wasn't a social outcast. Sure, he's geeky/nerdy but that hasn't been inherent social suicide in real life for at least a decade. Flash is a dick to Peter, but it's not like the entire school tormented Parker along with Flash. If you only have one person who is a dickhead to you in life and other people usually defend you, you're doing pretty fucking good socially, trust me. In Homecoming, Peter seemed well liked and even had a best friend to confide his secrets in, something Peter Parker has never had in any other medium that I can remember.

And Maybe it was because he "interned" with Tony Stark, but Peter wasn't poor or consciously money strapped in Homecoming. He didn't display much if any emotional trauma from being an orphan or being raised by a single guardian or even show much guilt for his past mistakes like his own selfishness leading to the death of his other guardian. None of that was touched on.

It's pretty amazing(heh) that they consciously wrote Peter in this way. I wouldn't say 2017 Peter Parker has EVERYTHING going for him, but he certainly doesn't have as much against him as he used to.

I have to give it up to Raimi's Parker, the entire school bus including the driver laughed as missed Pete ran for the bus. Raimi's Parker was poor and got taken advantage of by his boss. He had bullies who were bigger than him try to beat him up. He carried hella guilt for his past mistakes. His best friend was rich, more traditionally cool/handsome and dated the woman Peter loved before he did. Peter also couldn't confide in Harry his secret ID.

Not one scene in Homecoming that I can remember where a peer besides Flash or MJ(who obviously has a crush on him) put Peter down for any reason like calling him skinny or short. Multiple girls like Peter despite him being a major flake.

I don't know y'all... I LOVE Spider-Man. The Ditko era. The Theme song. The Spider Buggy. Ben Reilly. The 90s Cartoon. Mark Millar's underrated Marvel Knights Spider-Man. Damn near everything Brain Bendis has done for the hero's world going beyond even the Peter Parker character.

But it really feels like the core of what I feel like the Spider-Man character should be about is far away from the character of Peter Parker in 2017.

He'll never be allowed to develop into the man who settles down & has a family of his own that I think he would be in the comics.

In tv/film he'll always be rebooted into a version of his original state but with enough creeping changes as not to tell the exact story in the exact way that we're losing the best parts of the character; the parts that separate him from the 20 other film/tv properties that get released every year about a white kid that goes on an amazing adventure of self discovery.

Peter Parker was the original hard luck hero but in 2017, he just isn't that anymore, is he?
 

kinoki

Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
We live in far greater abundance than we did when Spider-Man was created. If you're intelligent and healthy you're pretty much set. Being raised by a single mother (aunt) is also far more common now and doesn't carry a social stigma.

Also, when we meet up with Peter in Homecoming things are finally going his way. We skipped the years when he cried himself to sleep knowing that he had no parents or when Uncle Ben died. It's a different take because we meet him at a different point in his life.
 
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Another one of these threads? Okay.

Was Peter really that much of a social outcast though? He was bullied but he was never treated like a pariah in the comics as far I know.

I don't think the same issues that would plague Peter in the 60's and 70's would be or should copied and pasted into a modern Peter Parker.
 
Not an outcast? Ahem, "Penis Parker." Also he and his friend were so desperately uncool, even at a nerd school, they were going to fake being friends with Spider-Man to try to be popular.
 

Slayven

Member
ZXtfGam.jpg


Another one of these threads? Okay.

Was Peter really that much of a social outcast though? He was bullied but he was never treated like a pariah in the comics as far I know.

I don't think the same issues that would plague Peter in the 60's and 70's would be or should copied and pasted into a modern Peter Parker.

The most you could say is he kept to himself. People have this weird idea he was some neckbeard weirdo in highschool or something
 

LotusHD

Banned
ZXtfGam.jpg


Another one of these threads? Okay.

Lmao, first thought I had

Was Peter really that much of a social outcast though? He was bullied but he was never treated like a pariah in the comics as far I know.

I don't think the same issues that would plague Peter in the 60's and 70's would be or should copied and pasted into a modern Peter Parker.

I agree, this notion that he has to be this hugely obvious loser is a weird one to me.
 

Savitar

Member
Parker hasn't been an underdog since the what..70's?! They had him grow up, finish school, college, work, get engaged and married. Yeah that got changed. But underdog? That era is over.
 
ZXtfGam.jpg


Another one of these threads? Okay.

Was Peter really that much of a social outcast though? He was bullied but he was never treated like a pariah in the comics as far I know.

I don't think the same issues that would plague Peter in the 60's and 70's would be or should copied and pasted into a modern Peter Parker.

In the early comics Peter is a raging dickhead and "professional wallflower" who blows off the other kids when they ask him to have fun. He's an outcast by choice. There was a good comic about that in the 80s where you see it from Flash's perspective and he never felt like he bullied Peter, just tried to loosen him up.
 

zeemumu

Member
For me Peter remained a bit of an underdog post-social outcast era because he was still constantly shat on by life due to comic book shenanigans and is absolutely terrible with coping with failure. I respect his ability to keep going for the sake of everyone around him instead of collapsing into a brooding mess like everyone else with his amount of problems and his ability to always find a way to come back from he bullshit but it still fucks him up inside.
 
The most you could say is he kept to himself. People have this weird idea he was some neckbeard weirdo in highschool or something

I agree, this notion that he has to be this hugely obvious loser is a weird one to me.

Wasn't Harry still his friend around this time? He still had a least a few peers to hang out with, even if he was more of a loner.

In the early comics Peter is a raging dickhead who blows off the other kids when they ask him to have fun. He's an outcast by choice. There was a good comic about that in the 80s where you see it from Flash's perspective and he never felt like he bullied Peter, just tried to loosen him up.

So the modern equivalent of early Peter would be a Redditor.

I kid, but no one wants a dickhead Peter, especially in 2017.
 

LionPride

Banned
Why do so many people want Peter to be a huge loser in school?

Like you wanna know what makes Pete a loser at first? The fucker absolutely cannot help his Aunt pay the bills while in HS or college all he while he's doing something that could 100% make him a loser. Socially, he's intelligent, has had women damn near falling over for his ass at times because being a cute nerd just works, gets bullied by a big motherfucker/someone who is just a dick while in high school, and....no that's about it.

Also, yeah Peter used to be a dick who just wanted to be alone and would be a dick about it

The bruh was only really an underdog in HS and early college I believe

AND ONE OF HIS BEST FRIENDS WAS THE SON OF THE OWNER OF A MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR CORPORATION FOR CHRIST'S SAKE
 

Skilletor

Member
In the early comics Peter is a raging dickhead and "professional wallflower" who blows off the other kids when they ask him to have fun. He's an outcast by choice. There was a good comic about that in the 80s where you see it from Flash's perspective and he never felt like he bullied Peter, just tried to loosen him up.

Do you happen to know the issue? I'd love to read this.
 

Slayven

Member
Wasn't Harry still his friend around this time? He still had a least a few peers to hang out with, even if he was more of a loner.



So the modern equivalent of early Peter would be redditor.

I kid, but no one wants a dickhead Peter, especially in 2017.

Harry and a few others, Flash was the really the only person that gave him a hard time. Most other joked on him because he was so standoffish
 

hamchan

Member
I guess to be an outcast in 2017 he'd have to be one of those drug addicts that hang out behind the school since being a smart kid that likes Star Wars ain't exactly some loser level stuff.
 
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Peter's been a social outcast, guys. Early issues of Amazing had Peter as particularly neurotic and self segregating. Dude has a chip on his shoulder and it's way more interesting social dynamic than everyone liking him, imo.
 

VeeP

Member
People need to read the books.

Fresh out of high school Parker landed grown woman Betty Bryant.

Why do so many people want Peter to be a huge loser in school?

Like you wanna know what makes Pete a loser at first? The fucker absolutely cannot help his Aunt pay the bills while in HS or college all he while he's doing something that could 100% make him a loser. Socially, he's intelligent, has had women damn near falling over for his ass at times because being a cute nerd just works, gets bullied by a big motherfucker/someone who is just a dick while in high school, and....no that's about it.

Also, yeah Peter used to be a dick who just wanted to be alone and would be a dick about it

The bruh was only really an underdog in HS and early college I believe

AND ONE OF HIS BEST FRIENDS WAS THE SON OF THE OWNER OF A MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR CORPORATION FOR CHRIST'S SAKE

But remember that one scene? In Spiderman? Where Norman was like lemme make a few calls and then Peter was like No Sir, I like to work my way up? Remember that? Why can't Peter in Homecoming do that? Why can't Peter in Homecoming not enjoy being Spiderman? Why can't he have girls throw themselves at him but he's like naw, I gotta be Spiderman who I hate being? Why can't Peter in Homecoming be broke as hell?

Peter Parker is a lot of things. Raimi did a good job, but that's just one side of Peter.
 

erlim

yes, that talented of a member
He's less of a pariah or outcast than a late bloomer. I mean he was married to a super model.

In the end, he's well adjusted without having a complex. He plays well on teams. He knows when to ask for help. He tolerates people like Deadpool but has a strong moral compass.
 
Having never read the comics, I definitely preferred Raimi Spider Man. I can't think of another big time superhero was picked on, poor, taken advantage of, nerdy, just overall relatable (as much as you can relate to a superhero, anyways)

New Spidy is slick as fuck. Dude could have had 2 girlfriends if he played his cards right. He lives in modern day New York, with no money issues apparently. The only problem he faced was being seen as an inadequate kid by iron man.

I get that Riami Spidy may not be the "real" Peter Parker, but he was the more interesting one
 

Slayven

Member
People have it set in their mind the way the character is, based on their experience with him. Some times it matches, sometimes it doesn.

Like people think Hulk is all "Hulk Smash", and he hasn't been baby speaking on a constant basis for decades

Superman working at a newspaper, well in the 90s and most of the 90s he was television reporter.

Or that Aquaman can only speak to fishes, despite he is usually the second to third strongest person on the JL at a given time
 

LionPride

Banned
But remember that one scene? In Spiderman? Where Norman was like lemme make a few calls and then Peter was like No Sir, I like to work my way up? Remember that? Why can't Peter in Homecoming do that? Why can't Peter in Homecoming not enjoy being Spiderman? Why can't he have girls throw themselves at him but he's like naw, I gotta be Spiderman who I hate being? Why can't Peter in Homecoming be broke as hell?

Peter Parker is a lot of things. Raimi did a good job, but that's just one side of Peter.

The....the scene where he could literally go see his crush in a bikini but decides to go try and find Vulture? Where he legit considered tryin to be around Liz instead of being Spider-Man?

The same Peter who in this universe doesn't play sports because he didn't when he didn't have powers and won't now because it's not right?

The same Peter who lives in an apartment in Queens with his Aunt and only his Aunt post his uncle being killed and has to go dumpster diving for his shit ain't broke? Okay
 

Seesaw15

Member
People keep bringing up how Peter wasn't poor in homecoming and I gotta call BULLSHIT. For one the dude just turned 15 so I don't know why people think Aunt May is gonna sit Peter down and talk about filing for bankruptcy. Adults typically want to protect kids from the harsh realities of life and let them be kids.

People in other threads also brought up since Peters "poor" shouldn't he be wearing ill fitting hand me downs? No. Poor people can afford to go to Target and buy a pair of decent jeans and some shirts. This isn't the 1920's

Everything else OP is talking about is some out dated geek persucuation complex that died in the 80s. This movie wasn't an origin story so we missed geeky freshman Peter with glasses get his pants pulled down In gym class. The whole point of post spider bite Peter is that he gains confidence from being spider-man and it reflects in his personal life/appearance. The movie begins after that so why would he be Rami's Spider-man 1 nerd at all?
 

kunonabi

Member
While Homecoming and the general Spider-Man that Marvel pushes these days hasn't really been the same character as the one I grew up. I wouldn't totally pin it on him not being a big enough underdog.

Peter being this gigantic loser that can barely function in normal society isn't really as huge a part of the character as Raimi and others have made it out to be.
 
People need to read the books.

Fresh out of high school Parker landed grown woman Betty Bryant.

She wasn't grown grown but she was on her own though, if I remember correctly. I don't think she was in her 20s yet, even.

In the early comics Peter is a raging dickhead and "professional wallflower" who blows off the other kids when they ask him to have fun. He's an outcast by choice. There was a good comic about that in the 80s where you see it from Flash's perspective and he never felt like he bullied Peter, just tried to loosen him up.

This guy knows Spidey. Young Peter, especially, was very neurotic and hyper aware of his social standing, even if that hyper awareness kept him from just going along and fitting in.

Ultimate Peter specifically was picked on in that very ugly high school way that makes you think "this kid could end up being a school shooter"
 

LionPride

Banned
People keep bringing up how Peter "wasn't poor in homecoming and I gotta call BULLSHIT. For one the dude just turned 15 so I don't know why people think Aunt May is gonna sit Peter down and talk about filing for bankruptcy. Adults typically want to protect kids from the harsh realities of life and let them be kids.

People in other threads also brought up since Peters "poor" shouldn't he be wearing ill fitting hand me downs? No. Poor people can afford to go to Target and buy a pair of decent jeans and some shirts. This isn't the 1920's

Everything else OP is talking about is some out dated geek persucuation complex that died in the 80s. This movie wasn't an origin story so we missed geeky freshman Peter with glasses get his pants pulled Dow. In gym class. The whole point of post spider bite Peter is that he gains confidence from being spider-man and it reflects in his personal. The movie begins after that so why would he be Rami's Spider-man 1 nerd at all?
People really need to know what being broke means

I didn't know I was in the lower class until I was 15, my mom did all she could to hide that reality for me. I had good clothes, I didn't look like a fuckin bum, sales exist, clothes for cheap exist. But no, if he isn't absolutely struggling himself, he ain't poor....


FOH
 

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
People keep bringing up how Peter "wasn't poor in homecoming and I gotta call BULLSHIT. For one the dude just turned 15 so I don't know why people think Aunt May is gonna sit Peter down and talk about filing for bankruptcy. Adults typically want to protect kids from the harsh realities of life and let them be kids.

People in other threads also brought up since Peters "poor" shouldn't he be wearing ill fitting hand me downs? No. Poor people can afford to go to Target and buy a pair of decent jeans and some shirts. This isn't the 1920's

Everything else OP is talking about is some out dated geek persucuation complex that died in the 80s. This movie wasn't an origin story so we missed geeky freshman Peter with glasses get his pants pulled Dow. In gym class. The whole point of post spider bite Peter is that he gains confidence from being spider-man and it reflects in his personal. The movie begins after that so why would he be Rami's Spider-man 1 nerd at all?

Remember when people were mad that he lived in an apartment in this unoverse and not in a home?
 

Seesaw15

Member
But remember that one scene? In Spiderman? Where Norman was like lemme make a few calls and then Peter was like No Sir, I like to work my way up? Remember that? Why can't Peter in Homecoming do that?
.
People need to stop citing that scene as some sort of purity test. Dude talked about "earning things himself" when he was a freshman living in a huge ass Manhattan apartment where Harry's dad paid 99% of the rent. Fuck out of here.
 
He's less of a pariah or outcast than a late bloomer. I mean he was married to a super model.

In the end, he's well adjusted without having a complex. He plays well on teams. He knows when to ask for help. He tolerates people like Deadpool but has a strong moral compass.

I agree that Peter is a late bloomer but I would never call the guy well adjusted. He should be a neurotic driven by extreme guilt, at least.

Peter Parker?

Oh...you mean Penis Parker, right? Totally not an underdog....:/

Maybe if half the school called him that throughout the movie, not one room laugh and what's admittedly a clever pun on his name. To be an underdog, Penis Parker would have to be driven into the ground by kids who torment him with it, imo. One scene, not so much
 

wazoo

Member
In 2017, a pariah kid would be a kid without facebook account.

But i get the point, in Homecoming, there is no trauma attached to PP, he is not responsible of his uncle death, he does not worry about his aunt health, he does not have to work to pay the bills. He is known as the friend of Spiderman. He even date "the" girl of the highschool for the bal.

The fact that his quiz team has all the hot girls of the high school is also funny and geek.

In my opinion, this is the Disney trauma. I bet no Marvel comics from now will be a problem to see for any kid of any age (I know homecoming is not Disney but they are clones).
 
The guy who owned a brownstone in the Bronx with only his wife who made like 0 income?

I mean, Peter Parker was a 30 year old engaged/married man with a relatively good career and job prospects for far longer than he was a high school student (3 years in the comics) or a starving college student living in a shitty apartment getting gouged by Jameson.
 
you're not an underdog unless you're literally being stuffed into lockers (do people actually do this?)

i think spiderman is cool
 

LionPride

Banned
People need to stop citing that scene as some sort of purity test. Dude talked about "earning things himself" when he was a freshman living in a huge ass Manhattan apartment where Harry's dad paid 99% of the rent. Fuck out of here.
Lol
In 2017, a pariah kid would be a kid without facebook account.

But i get the point, in Homecoming, there is no trauma attached to PP, he is not responsible of his uncle death, he does not worry about his aunt health, he does not have to work to pay the bills. He is known as the friend of Spiderman. He even date "the" girl of the highschool for the bal.
No, he is still responsible for Ben's death. Again, in Civil War, it's mentioned something along the lines of having the powers and not doing anything with them is wrong and he would feel awful if he ain't do anything with em because with great power comes great responsibility.
 
I agree that Peter is a late bloomer but I would never call the guy well adjusted. He should be a neurotic driven by extreme guilt, at least.

Why though? He isn't consumed by his uncles death. He died, he grieved, he moved on with his life. He is a hero because the words Ben said to him are important and mean something too him not just because he's some whackjob with a costume.
 
Why though? He isn't consumed by his uncles death. He died, he grieved, he moved on with his life. He is a hero because the words Ben said to him are important and mean something too him not just because he's some whackjob with a costume.

you wanna talk whackjob with a costume who never got over his parents death, he's probably the most popular DC hero
 
Do you happen to know the issue? I'd love to read this.

The only other thing I can remember is that it's in an absurd run of issues with a subplot where Peter, who is now not only an adult man but also Spider-Man, briefly lets himself be bullied by some young punks in his neighborhood.
 

hamchan

Member
The quiz team was also super willing to kick Flash out for Peter instantly too. Perhaps Flash is the underdog and he's lashing about at Peter because he's jealous, rather than Peter, with the special Stark internship and who can get the hottest girl in school to go prom with him, being the underdog.
 

Slayven

Member
In 2017, a pariah kid would be a kid without facebook account.

But i get the point, in Homecoming, there is no trauma attached to PP, he is not responsible of his uncle death, he does not worry about his aunt health, he does not have to work to pay the bills. He is known as the friend of Spiderman. He even date "the" girl of the highschool for the bal.

The fact that his quiz team has all the hot girls of the high school is also funny and geek.

In my opinion, this is the Disney trauma. I bet no Marvel comics from now will be a problem to see for any kid of any age (I know homecoming is not Disney but they are clones).

Spdierman never wore trauma on his sleeve like a Batman or Wolverine. Until you pissed him off, then lord help you.

The constant need to prove himself was a thing.

Dude went a magnet school, of course all the hot girls at a magnet school would be on the debate team.
 

wazoo

Member
Lol

No, he is still responsible for Ben's death. Again, in Civil War, it's mentioned something along the lines of having the powers and not doing anything with them is wrong and he would feel awful if he ain't do anything with em because with great power comes great responsibility.

Civil War is the only SH movie asking the question about the fact that a super hero should not do justice just because he can. Too bad, it is the only one. But i disgress.
 
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