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The General Star Trek Thread of Earl Grey Tea, Baseball, and KHHHAAAANNNN

F

Freeza Under The Shower

Member
The inevitable live-action of Rick & Morty should really make use of Peter Capaldi as Rick.

"We fucking time-traveled, Morty! *burp* "


Also: I'm now at Skin Of Evil (yaaaaaaaaay, #ArmusWasRight ), but that Symbiosis that precedes it.. uuurgh. Don't do drugs, kids, because it's the 80's and it's all about the druuuugs, man. Man, fuck the 80's.
 
W

weemadarthur

Member
What was Armus right about? Every time i see Skin of Evil I stop hearing his words after about the second round. He fits into my "fictional characters whose voice i can't hear" with jar jar binks and somebody else.

Symbiosis is a great for a reminder of why they made the Prime Directive, despite their refusal to ever follow it.
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
I like Armus because he's an interesting villain for the TNG crew to face. A creature that basically doesn't give a damn about anything else and is true evil, and yet its origins make it almost pitiable—he was made without regard by other beings and discarded, so no shit he's pissed.
 
Y

Yarbskoo

Member
Man, these Voyager episodes are really making me miss the progression of DS9. It feels like we're back where we started at the end of every episode. The fact that there's an ultimate end goal for Voyager just makes it worse.
 
VenomousCoffee

VenomousCoffee

Member
My favorite thing about Voyager will never stop being the big revelation that they had been carrying Neelix's massive shuttle with them for 7 years and never talked about it. Never a "hey why the hell are we carrying this big hunk of metal we never use?" at a staff meeting, or complaining about how it takes up 2/3s of the cargo bay.
 
H

Himynameischris

Member
VenomousCoffee said:
My favorite thing about Voyager will never stop being the big revelation that they had been carrying Neelix's massive shuttle with them for 7 years and never talked about it. Never a "hey why the hell are we carrying this big hunk of metal we never use?" at a staff meeting, or complaining about how it takes up 2/3s of the cargo bay.
Click to expand...

Actually they did acknowledge it on a couple of episodes and I think Neeflix even used it once, but there were several times where an extra shuttle would have come in handy and they never bring it up
 
P

Previous

check out my new Swatch
VenomousCoffee said:
My favorite thing about Voyager will never stop being the big revelation that they had been carrying Neelix's massive shuttle with them for 7 years and never talked about it. Never a "hey why the hell are we carrying this big hunk of metal we never use?" at a staff meeting, or complaining about how it takes up 2/3s of the cargo bay.
Click to expand...

After the 22nd or 23rd shuttlecraft was destroyed I'm sure finding free space to store that thing couldn't of been that big of a problem.
 
P

Pluto

Member
Keeping Neelix's ship actually made sense, it was perfect for missions where they didn't want to be easily identifiable as being part of Voyager. They should have used it more often.
 
S

Stallion Dan

Member
Morts said:
They use Neelix's ship for some reason in that episode when Tom and Harry are in space prison.
Click to expand...

It was a well armed and shielded space station and Voyager had already got itself flagged, so they used Neelix's ship (first time ever actually shown in the series) so he could get close and pull a "I'm a lost trader" trick.
 
Melchiah

Melchiah

Member
Speaking of Voyager, I've recently started watching it on Netflix, and even after nearly two decades I still can't stand Neelix. It's an entertaining series otherwise, and I do enjoy the episodes where bad things happen to Neelix, like when
his lungs were stolen and when Tuvok was about to strangle him
. I was just wondering if Enterprise is worth a watch, since it's also there?
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
Of course, lack of imagination on the part of the writers means the only thing they could really think of to do with either Neelix or Kes was relationship drama, and shockingly the character they could have done more with but never really bothered to even try is the one who got cut. So Neelix got less annoying, arguably, but he was still a terrible and useless character.
 
M

Maledict

Member
maharg said:
Of course, lack of imagination on the part of the writers means the only thing they could really think of to do with either Neelix or Kes was relationship drama, and shockingly the character they could have done more with but never really bothered to even try is the one who got cut. So Neelix got less annoying, arguably, but he was still a terrible and useless character.
Click to expand...

To be fair, the reasons she got cut were more related to off-screen activities rather than acting and writing...
 
P

Pluto

Member
Maledict said:
To be fair, the reasons she got cut were more related to off-screen activities rather than acting and writing...
Click to expand...
The problems came later afaik, long after she was let go from Voyager.
The producers intended to keep her, Harry Kim was supposed to be killed off, the infection by species 8472 in scorpion part 1 was deadly but between seasons 3 and 4 Garrett Wang made the 50 monst beautiful people in Hollywood list and Paramount wanted to keep him around for publicity, that's why the doctor suddenly found a miracle cure and Kes was gone two episodes later.
 
Melchiah

Melchiah

Member
Maledict said:
She and Harry Kim were doing vast amounts of drugs on set. He got saved because he featured in People magazines top 50 beautiful people in TV or something ridiculously dumb like that, but she was cut.
Click to expand...

Well, color me surprised. It's funny to think about Harry Kim doing drugs on the set though, given the goody-goody character he played.


EDIT:
Pluto said:
The problems came later afaik, long after she was let go from Voyager.
The producers intended to keep her, Harry Kim was supposed to be killed off, the infection by species 8472 in scorpion part 1 was deadly but between seasons 3 and 4 Garrett Wang made the 50 monst beautiful people in Hollywood list and Paramount wanted to keep him around for publicity, that's why the doctor suddenly found a miracle cure and Kes was gone two episodes later.
Click to expand...

I completely forgot about Species 8472. Looking at the episodes they were in, it seems like I've only seen few of them in the late 90's. Now I'm all the more excited about continuing with the series.
 
F

Freeza Under The Shower

Member
but I don't wannaaaaaa

But speaking of stealing wholesale, the first episode of S2 of TNG is a straight up ripoff from an episode of Space 1999 (a British sci-fi show from the 70s). However, there was no discussion on abortion in that one, which seems to be about the only reason the TNG episode was made.

Also: Riker stalker
edit: and Chief O'Brien starting his career of the worst job ever
 
P

Pluto

Member
Freeza Under The Shower said:
But speaking of stealing wholesale, the first episode of S2 of TNG is a straight up ripoff from an episode of Space 1999 (a British sci-fi show from the 70s). However, there was no discussion on abortion in that one, which seems to be about the only reason the TNG episode was made.
Click to expand...
Actually that episode was made because of the writers strike, it was a script written for Star Trek Phase 2, because of the strike they duated it off, changed the names and rushed it into production to not delay the season any further.

The season was supposed to continue from the season 1 finale with the federation and romulans cooperating to solve the mystery of the destoyed colonies on both sides of the neutral zone, that would have led to the introduction of the borg as an insectoid species. The bug creatures from Conspiracy were supposed to be part of them. They were dipping their toes into serialized storytelling before the strike scuttled those plans.
 
VenomousCoffee

VenomousCoffee

Member
Pluto said:
Actually that episode was made because of the writers strike, it was a script written for Star Trek Phase 2, because of the strike they duated it off, changed the names and rushed it into production to not delay the season any further.

The season was supposed to continue from the season 1 finale with the federation and romulans cooperating to solve the mystery of the destoyed colonies on both sides of the neutral zone, that would have led to the introduction of the borg as an insectoid species. The bug creatures from Conspiracy were supposed to be part of them. They were dipping their toes into serialized storytelling before the strike scuttled those plans.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Never knew this.
 
F

Freeza Under The Shower

Member
Pluto said:
Actually that episode was made because of the writers strike, it was a script written for Star Trek Phase 2, because of the strike they duated it off, changed the names and rushed it into production to not delay the season any further.

The season was supposed to continue from the season 1 finale with the federation and romulans cooperating to solve the mystery of the destoyed colonies on both sides of the neutral zone, that would have led to the introduction of the borg as an insectoid species. The bug creatures from Conspiracy were supposed to be part of them. They were dipping their toes into serialized storytelling before the strike scuttled those plans.
Click to expand...

I didn't know that. That sudden break from S1's finale always did seem odd, and I have no doubt that it's legally more convenient to claim the script came from this Phase 2, but as a viewer I can't unsee immediately that's literally the same story, nearly bear for beat, as Space 1999's Alpha Child, broadcast in 1975. According to its wikipedia page, Phase 2 was only signed on in 1977, so they were perfectly able to copy it by that time.

Of course, I'm not interested in any kind of legal battle (but lawyers sure are), it's just a "this guy may have used this" curiosity to me, but I also can appreciate that Hollywood and television are not fun industries to work in without going full Harlan Ellison on everyone. To me personally, the two episodes seem far too similar to be coincidental, but then 'miracle child' was hardly an obscure trope at the time. In hindsight, BSG even brought that worst aspect of it back in the remake. V kinda did too, for that whole one season it was a thing. :p

Curiously, Alpha Child is also one of few episodes to not have its own wikipedia page, or even have a note in the imdb trivia, despite Trek fans being more than a little... obsessive about details like that.

edit: speaking of which, and this may sound weird, but does anyone consider Data to be a functionally speaking autistic character? (though not all the time or even per episode) It kind of hit me that the character can be seen that way.

weemadarthur said:
And even there, he gets replaced for an episode for no reason. Apparently the job title gets passed around to whoever is on duty.
Click to expand...

Maybe that was him pulling a practical joke and realizing nobody even noticed.
 
N

nOoblet16

Member
3 more days guys...3 more days !

I've watched every single Trek episode and movies (except TOS TV episodes, I hated then but liked the movies) this is the first time I'll be watching Trek as it airs. So excited !
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
I have discovered Swear Trek...


https://twitter.com/swear_trek


2sScM5n.gif
 
F

Freeza Under The Shower

Member
Swear Trek, sir?

edit: well, making gifs from that poker scene in The Measure Of A Man didn't work, but it's one of the best moments in the show.
I always enjoyed that Data served as both serious role and sorely needed comic relief.

Too bad it's followed by The Dauphin, which is okay in itself, but *shudder* teenage drama.

The episode after that is honestly the more interesting one among TNG episodes, as it's one of very few episodes where a completely alternative form of travel and cultural spread / domination is put forward by the Iconian portal technology. One of Star Trek's weaknesses, when compared to something akin to Babylon 5, is the lack of distinctive variation among species in getting to 'the space age' and the accompanying idea that every culture everywhere would always develop along those same lines. TOS was much worse in this than TNG is, but diversity in technology (aside from the Borg that is) was still underdeveloped by the time TNG aired.

I do wonder if the new show might be more likely to avoid that trap, but somehow I doubt that.
 
Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
So I forgot how the movie and tv series timeline and release went, so it went like this right?

between IV and V, TNG was made, then roughly after VI and Generations, DS9 came out, then during Nemesis, it was Voyager, I got it right?

And only the TNG films acknowledged the then running series too as I recall, what with references to DS9 and how Janeway is now admiral.
 
H

Henchmen21

Banned
Boss Doggie said:
So I forgot how the movie and tv series timeline and release went, so it went like this right?

between IV and V, TNG was made, then roughly after VI and Generations, DS9 came out, then during Nemesis, it was Voyager, I got it right?

And only the TNG films acknowledged the then running series too as I recall, what with references to DS9 and how Janeway is now admiral.
Click to expand...

Correct on the first part, in fact today is TNG's 30th Anniversary.

Wrong on the second part. DS9 premiered in January of 93 during TNG's 6th season and Voyager premiered in January of 95 between Generations and First Contact
 
S

Stallion Dan

Member
In terms of release

IV
TNG
V
VI
DS9
TNG Ended
Generations
Voyager
First Contact
Insurrection
DS9 Ended
Voyager Ended
Enterprise
Nemesis
Enterprise Ended
 
F

Freeza Under The Shower

Member
You could easily explain it within the show as him being in a different transporter room at the time, though. God knows the Enterprise in both TOS and TNG randomly keep adding and decreasing the amount of labs, transporter rooms, shuttle bays, and so on. They completely overdid it in the 2009 movie with having like a dozen each inside a relatively small ship. Time and relative dimensions in space... This isn't Doctor Who, JJ!

Eh.

Anyway, done with S2 of TNG, of which in the remainder there's always Q Who (AGAIN? Leave the timelords alooooone), Time Squared, and an episode I personally always enjoyed: The Royale. Yes it's goofy and nonsensical, but that's kind of why I love it. Also that line from Picard on "It was a dark and stormy night". I think that returns in a much later season too. On to S3. I did always feel that Muldaur was a better actress than McFadden, but she was stuck in season two. We didn't get any of that sweet Klingon poetry though. :(
 
M

Mr. Luchador

Member
I'm doing some research for a Star Trek Adventures campaign I'm putting together based just after TOS ends in 2291 (I guess you can call that 'Movie Era'). The players want an Excelsior class ship, which is nice. But I have questions!

Did the Excelsior class have families on board similar to the Galaxy? It seems to be such a huge ship with well over 500 crew members.
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Mr. Luchador said:
I'm doing some research for a Star Trek Adventures campaign I'm putting together based just after TOS ends in 2291 (I guess you can call that 'Movie Era'). The players want an Excelsior class ship, which is nice. But I have questions!

Did the Excelsior class have families on board similar to the Galaxy? It seems to be such a huge ship with well over 500 crew members.
Click to expand...

Based on TUC, Generations, and the Voyager anniversary episode, we don't really see any sign of families on board. Even with the subsequent Ambassador class ships, at least based on Enterprise-C, there didn't seem to be civilians (unless they evacuated before engaging the Romulans)
 
C

Cheerilee

Member
Mr. Luchador said:
I'm doing some research for a Star Trek Adventures campaign I'm putting together based just after TOS ends in 2291 (I guess you can call that 'Movie Era'). The players want an Excelsior class ship, which is nice. But I have questions!

Did the Excelsior class have families on board similar to the Galaxy? It seems to be such a huge ship with well over 500 crew members.
Click to expand...

I always got the impression that Picard bitched about families being allowed on starships because it was a recent policy change that came down from Starfleet, one that Picard was forced to accept when he took on the role of Captaining a Galaxy Class starship (the biggest, most luxurious starship to-date, and also the most powerful, in a time when Starfleet did not feel threatened).

With the Galaxy Class in hand, the upper brass of Starfleet believed (perhaps arrogantly) that space was no longer a dangerous place for children, while Picard was the one they tasked with the job of taking the Captaining of a Galaxy Class starship seriously.
 
F

Freeza Under The Shower

Member
Cheerilee said:
I always got the impression that Picard bitched about families being allowed on starships because it was a recent policy change that came down from Starfleet, one that Picard was forced to accept when he took on the role of Captaining a Galaxy Class starship (the biggest, most luxurious starship to-date, and also the most powerful, in a time when Starfleet did not feel threatened).

With the Galaxy Class in hand, the upper brass of Starfleet believed (perhaps arrogantly) that space was no longer a dangerous place for children, while Picard was the one they tasked with the job of taking the Captaining of a Galaxy Class starship seriously.
Click to expand...

I watched an episode of TNG on this exact topic yesterday, which is S3 episode 5: "the bonding". Picard openly questions the decision to have children on a starship in this one.

Also, previously in the show, the ship that was looking for Iconia was completely destroyed with all hands on board, so it's safe to say 'Starfleet don't care' when it comes to kids. It's more likely that the producers forced the decision to have kids on board, since it really doesn't make any sense from a military point of view. (and the moral issues that arise with say, casual use of the self-destruct)
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Freeza Under The Shower said:
I watched an episode of TNG on this exact topic yesterday, which is S3 episode 5: "the bonding". Picard openly questions the decision to have children on a starship in this one.

Also, previously in the show, the ship that was looking for Iconia was completely destroyed with all hands on board, so it's safe to say 'Starfleet don't care' when it comes to kids. It's more likely that the producers forced the decision to have kids on board, since it really doesn't make any sense from a military point of view. (and the moral issues that arise with say, casual use of the self-destruct)
Click to expand...
They evacuated civilians from the Odyssey before the Jem Hadar blew it up, but you get the impression that families were allowed to choose whether any risks are worth being together as family unit. I expect it's meant to be like a permanent Tiger Cruise, where the US Navy lets families aboard ships to hang out during the last week of a deployment.

For example, the Siskos probably didn't expect to have to engage the Borg during their deployment (poor Jennifer). But presumably during the formal Dominion War, no civilians were allowed on ships.
 
M

Mr. Luchador

Member
Thanks for the answers. The reason I asked is that I was (eventually) going to put the players of the Star Trek Adventures game I'm running in to that kind of moral dilemma. It did seem silly to have families on board the ships, even if it was a time of peace.
 
M

Meowster

Member
I’m about halfway into Deep Space Nine (start of Season 5) and I think Odo and Garak are two of my all time favorite Star Trek characters.
 
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