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Mafro · Feb 17, 2012

Some of the classic GAF hyperbole in this thread is absolutely hilarious.

I played the demo, framerate in the custscenes is bad but in-game it's fine. Controls great with the circle pad pro and I love being able to move and shoot now, plus there's the addition of crouch walking and no HUD elements on the top screen.

I skipped the HD collection because I've played MGS2 to death on PS2 and I want to play this version of MGS 3 over the HD one. It's a shame the three games aren't available separately as a download because the only reason I'd buy the collection is to play through Peace Walker again since it's one of my favourites in the entire series. I'll probably just rent it to play that, or pick it up if it's cheap.

AzureSkies · Feb 17, 2012

Wizpig said:
Woo Vesperia.
After 938 years of wait.

And Symphonia was the same thing.
So, i agree.

I pretty much agree here, I was a fan of Symphonia and also dabbled a bit in Eternia but other than Phantasia I actually didn't know there was other games in the series.

I guess that's one of the joys of living in Europe and having to deal with the terrible support for the series that Namco Europe gave. I played Vesperia's demo so long ago that by the time it came out I wasn't even aware of it being out until a year later. Of course, I live in Canada now and I'm contemplating to purchase Abyss and play it on PCSX2.

But moving back to Snake Eater 3D? I think I'm going to pass on it, I've bought the game twice with the HD Collection and I'm not interested in buying it again.

MarshMellow96 · Feb 17, 2012

Mafro, I would hate to see your hands after so many years of crab grip..

Mafro · Feb 17, 2012

MarshMellow96 said:
Mafro, I would hate to see your hands after so many years of crab grip..

Crab grip due to what?

Henke · Feb 17, 2012

Electivirus said:
Yes.

I had hoped it was just in the title. I'll give this demo a miss. I have a huge snake phobia to the point where pictures of snakes and game snakes freak me the fuck out.

Mr. Pointy · Feb 17, 2012

I got the MGS3 demo and did a run with and without the CPP. It obviously controls better with the CPP.

But I did find it easy enough to play without it. Unlike PW or PO, I had no problems with aiming whatsoever. I find that because the 3DS face buttons are spaced more closely, like a d-pad, aiming with said buttons works a lot easier than using the PSP face buttons for aiming in PO or PW. There's less throw, so the aiming feels tighter.

The graphics are disappointing and the frame rate is patchy. It plays well enough - crouch walking is such a huge bonus.

I'm still on the fence about getting MGS3D. I want to play MGS3 with PW control additions, but it does seem like a lackluster product. I already have Substance and Subsistence for PS2, and I'm unsure about getting the HD disc because of the missing stuff from MGS2 and 3.

MarshMellow96 · Feb 17, 2012

Mafro said:
Crab grip due to what?

Mostly due to playing Peace Walker.

ScreenSplitter · Feb 17, 2012

Haven't played the demo, but Snake does control like a drunk tank. The game looks pretty though, and I imagine the final build will be better in both of these regards.

Risk Breaker · Feb 17, 2012

Mafro said:
Controls great with the circle pad pro and I love being able to move and shoot now, plus there's the addition of crouch walking and no HUD elements on the top screen.

It's a shame that the crouch walking animation looks so bad compared to PW and that it may break the balance of the game. Too much camo index...

DCharlie · Feb 17, 2012

I imagine the final build will be better in both of these regards.

missed the thead and have my preorder in so skipped it but do we have any idea when the Demo is from ?

Given the release is next week i'm assuming the assumption is that this is an old demo?

Mafro · Feb 17, 2012

MarshMellow96 said:
Mostly due to playing Peace Walker.

Can't say I had any problems. It's no Monster Hunter, for example.

Cosmonaut X · Feb 17, 2012

DCharlie said:
missed the thead and have my preorder in so skipped it but do we have any idea when the Demo is from ?

Given the release is next week i'm assuming the assumption is that this is an old demo?

From what I can tell, the working assumption is that this is the same basic demo as the Japanese one from three months ago (someone suggested it's the E3 demo from 2011, but...) and because early press (including a solid, positive Edge review) has been singing the praises of the game people are assuming that the final build will improve on what is a fairly shonky demo.

dark10x · Feb 17, 2012

Xav said:
You're always going to get better results with games made for the hardware than games ported over. Try porting Resident Evil 4 to the 3DS and I bet it will probably look & run worse than Resident Evil: The Mercenaries let alone Revelations.
I'm sure the 3DS hardware can handle MGS 3, I just don't feel it's up to the task of running a port of MGS 3. Then again this is Konami, they couldn't even get the original Xbox to run MGS 2 properly.

MGS2 was ported during Konami's prime, though.

The XBOX simply couldn't match the fill rate of PS2 so the heavy particle usage proved too much for the hardware. The game was designed to exploit the PS2 originally so I'm not surprised. The particles still cause a bit of slowdown in the HD versions at times. The PS2 was a particle crunching monster.

I don't know how the hell you measure framerate, but I'd say the demo runs between 25 and 30 fps, not 15. The cutscenes are around 20, yes, but they're watchable.

It's limited to 20 fps max in the demo with slowdown.

25 fps wouldn't be possible here without tearing anyways as they couldn't use triple buffering. It's 20 fps (like the original Ocarina of Time).

haikira · Feb 17, 2012

Is the ability to take a photo and use it as camo, blocked in the demo? Tried to use it, but it was greyed out. Just checking i'm not missing anything obvious and it is just blocked from the demo.

radioheadrule83 · Feb 17, 2012

I actually think it's 30fps with occasional slowdown, possibly dipping to 20fps at worst during some of the cutscenes. I don't think its as bad as Ocarina of Time N64s frame-rate by a long chalk. I could probably do a video showing you as much... unless its just the much nicer animation fooling me.

A couple of other quotes from the Edge review, I still don't have my own copy yet
(these are taken from this post: http://www.retrogamer.net/forum/vie...1f36681c68ef9235f4136add48e&start=615#p746493)

'The absolute pinnacle of MGS3D's use of 3D comes when aiming a gun in 1st person view while lying in the grass. The illusion of depth here is so layered that it beats almost everything else on 3DS to date'

I think that alone confirms that the final build is different from the demo, as first person modes in the demo are forcing 2D mode.

'Playing in 2d, even to give your eyes a rest, feels like a waste'

'...the list goes on-judging enemy distance, or the terrific effects during a late chase sequence-but suffice to say MGS3D is a must -have if you want to show off the 3DS hardware'

Apparently the negatives Edge picked out were a lack of 3DS exclusive features, and the omission of the multiplayer mode introduced in MGS3 Subsistence.

UncleSporky · Feb 17, 2012

Someone else was saying they noticed that even in this demo, there are some advanced effects that weren't present in the PS2 version. Normal maps on characters and animals, better lighting, and possibly a higher polycount on Snake himself. Anyone else think they can see this?

Peterthumpa · Feb 17, 2012

UncleSporky said:
Someone else was saying they noticed that even in this demo, there are some advanced effects that weren't present in the PS2 version. Normal maps on characters and animals, better lighting, and possibly a higher polycount on Snake himself. Anyone else think they can see this?

Honestly? I can't.

ultron87 · Feb 17, 2012

UncleSporky said:
Someone else was saying they noticed that even in this demo, there are some advanced effects that weren't present in the PS2 version. Normal maps on characters and animals, better lighting, and possibly a higher polycount on Snake himself. Anyone else think they can see this?

Snake's hair is fancier.

Heavy's Sandvich · Feb 17, 2012

I think I'm going to spend the afternoon playing MGS3 on ps2 to see the difference.

markot · Feb 17, 2012

Why would you release a demo in such a state if they final version is apparently... good >.<?

dark10x · Feb 17, 2012

I actually think it's 30fps with occasional slowdown, possibly dipping to 20fps at worst during some of the cutscenes.

Nope, it's not 30 fps. It's 20 fps. Trust me on this one.

Playing in 2d, even to give your eyes a rest, feels like a waste'

The 3D is pretty neat, but I've found that games with low resolution foliage are kind of difficult to play in 3D for my eyes. Even using my HMZ-T1, the sub-HD Halo Anniversary is painful to the eyes whenever foliage shows up. The same effect was present in this demo.

radioheadrule83 · Feb 17, 2012

UncleSporky said:
Someone else was saying they noticed that even in this demo, there are some advanced effects that weren't present in the PS2 version. Normal maps on characters and animals, better lighting, and possibly a higher polycount on Snake himself. Anyone else think they can see this?

There aren't that many animals to speak of really, a couple of gators, some snakes and rats... the occasional tiny butterfly or whatever. I didn't really notice any improvement on those, and the gators are almost amusingly stationary (but they were that way in the original game)...

I didn't notice any improvements to Snake's in game model, his hair is a bit different, but his viewable model on the Survival Viewer screen (options menus, camo equip) looks great imo.

Some pics for those who don't have access to a 3DS:

tsab · Feb 17, 2012

UncleSporky said:
Someone else was saying they noticed that even in this demo, there are some advanced effects that weren't present in the PS2 version. Normal maps on characters and animals, better lighting, and possibly a higher polycount on Snake himself. Anyone else think they can see this?

I noticed this. But I noticed a lower polycount for almost everything. Which is cool because the trick, is the advanced effects that it uses. (and no eye bleeding bloom thank God!)

I took my time with the demo, 58 minutes for one playthrough! to be exact, using the frankenstick.
Although it's a nice transfer to a portable machine, the lack of 3d in first person, the mediocre framerate (worse in cinematics), it translates for me in a maybe when it gets to 15/17.99GBP price range. Although I am getting the HD collection when it gets under 22GBP.

radioheadrule83 · Feb 17, 2012

tsab said:
Although it's a nice transfer to a portable machine, the lack of 3d in first person, the mediocre framerate (worse in cinematics),

For the bolded complaint, the edge review specifically talks about how great the 3D is in first person modes -- so 3D FPS modes are in the final game. See my earlier post.

tsab · Feb 17, 2012

radioheadrule83 said:
For the bolded complaint, the edge review specifically talks about how great the 3D is in first person modes -- so 3D FPS modes are in the final game. See my earlier post.

Thanks, I missed your post

ss_lemonade · Feb 17, 2012

tsab said:
I noticed this. But I noticed a lower polycount for almost everything. Which is cool because the trick, is the advanced effects that it uses. (and no eye bleeding bloom thank God!)

We've got eye bleeding aliasing this time. I just got used to seeing the HD ports I guess. Hopefully the retail/final version turns out to be an entirely different beast (though I still can't imagine how this will look better than the 360/ps3 version despite the added effects)

tsab · Feb 17, 2012

One other thing that I noticed with the demo, is that in 2D mode, the demo has no framerate or image quality improvements. Seems weird that they didn't take advantage of the spare processing power, even for a demo.

georaldc said:
We've got eye bleeding aliasing this time. I just got used to seeing the HD ports I guess. Hopefully the retail/final version turns out to be an entirely different beast (though I still can't imagine how this will look better than the 360/ps3 version despite the added effects)

Personally the aliasing is the last thing that annoys me in a game. I prefer max settings over AntiAliasing for example in pc games.

OmegaZero · Feb 17, 2012

Yeah, the jaggies are everywhere, but not too much of a game-breaker for me.
Lack of exclusive features and no multiplayer though? :/

I can see the no multiplayer thing easily being true, but hopefully there's at least some new extras. I mean, this is supposed to be a "remake", if only in Kojima's universe.

ShellyDeKiller · Feb 17, 2012

dc89 said:
Well it takes up just a little over 1000 'blocks' on the memory card. In terms of MB, I do not know.

Well I played it, it's ok I guess. I can see how it would be so much better with the CPP. Maybe I will pick one of those up at some point and give it another go.

1000 blocks is about 125MB.

Hylian7 · Feb 17, 2012

I played this yesterday. That framerate makes this extremely disappointing. The controls took some getting used to, and I can see why people would want the Circle Pad Pro for this game.

The framerate though, may be the single thing that makes me not buy this.

neeksleep · Feb 17, 2012

Er, okay. So I just played the demo and seems pretty cool.

Question though. I've dabbled in MGS before (played a bit of twin snakes, got kinda bored of MGS4, but both were ages ago and I remember jack squat), but I wouldn't say I've given it a fair chance. Do you think this is a good game to jump into the series with? It looks like this game has a lot of complex bits to it (hunger, camouflage, etc), and I'm not sure if this was part of the other metal gears or not.

Vyse The Legend · Feb 17, 2012

radioheadrule83 said:
For the bolded complaint, the edge review specifically talks about how great the 3D is in first person modes -- so 3D FPS modes are in the final game. See my earlier post.

Yeah, I think that alone proves the final build is very different than the demo.

Those other Edge quotes got me EXCITE for the game next week.

XPE · Feb 17, 2012

Can anyone equipe the riffle you pick up?

radioheadrule83 · Feb 17, 2012

Nope, they blocked it I think.

web01 said:
Take it out of your backpack an equip it to one of the nine weapon slots. Start button.

I stand corrected?! Didn't realise it could be done

I didn't know that you could climb trees in Snake Eater... will I have done that when I played the PS2 game?

web01 · Feb 17, 2012

XPE said:
Can anyone equipe the riffle you pick up?

Take it out of your backpack an equip it to one of the nine weapon slots. Start button.

Inferno313 · Feb 17, 2012

neeksleep said:
Er, okay. So I just played the demo and seems pretty cool.

Question though. I've dabbled in MGS before (played a bit of twin snakes, got kinda bored of MGS4, but both were ages ago and I remember jack squat), but I wouldn't say I've given it a fair chance. Do you think this is a good game to jump into the series with? It looks like this game has a lot of complex bits to it (hunger, camouflage, etc), and I'm not sure if this was part of the other metal gears or not.

I think 3 is probably the best starting point aside from 1. It's a little more self-contained than the other games, being a prequel. There are a few of references to stuff in 2 that you might not get, but you'll be able to follow the story just fine.

As far as mechanics go, camoflage and hunger aren't big parts of the other games. They're not exactly complex though . Hunger equates to: "My hunger bar is low, better eat" and camouflage is just a matter of picking the one with the highest number.

OmegaZero · Feb 17, 2012

Vyse The Legend said:
Yeah, I think that alone proves the final build is very different than the demo.

Those other Edge quotes got me EXCITE for the game next week.

Here's hoping it is. I'm still not sure what Edge meant, but if they thought it was better then the HD Collection, then who knows?

XPE said:
Can anyone equipe the riffle you pick up?

Yeah, you go to the backpack in the Start menu.
Then you click "Weapon".
Then you click on an empty section which should take you to the weapon selection screen.
Click on the SVD, then go back to the main game.
Hold down right on the d-pad and a selection of weapons pops up on the touch screen, including your SVD.
Click on it to equip it.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

UncleSporky · Feb 17, 2012

UncleSporky said:
Someone else was saying they noticed that even in this demo, there are some advanced effects that weren't present in the PS2 version. Normal maps on characters and animals, better lighting, and possibly a higher polycount on Snake himself. Anyone else think they can see this?

I may as well link to the person I was talking about saying this - credit's due, he posted this comparison shot:

I must say the improvements are noticeable, though the other image is obviously much cleaner due to resolution.

dark10x · Feb 17, 2012

UncleSporky said:
I may as well link to the person I was talking about saying this - credit's due, he posted this comparison shot:

I must say the improvements are noticeable, though the other image is obviously much cleaner due to resolution.

That's a pretty subtle difference, I think.

In fact, it would look a lot better if the light present in the off-screen shot were part of the game.

Even if the model itself has been improved, I'm not sure I can understand the point. Snake received additional detail while the environments (which you see the most of) lose quite a bit. The resolution is also so low that it's difficult to notice in all but the closest of close-ups.

Still, I do like some of the changes they're making here. Just wish you could use the entire menu system (including camo) from the touch panel without pausing the game.

OmegaZero · Feb 17, 2012

Someone on 3DSForums claims to have gotten the game early and posted an impression stating the that framerate has improved and that the visuals are noticeably better then the PS2 version. This goes in line with the review statements.

He/she hasn't posted pictures or anything though, so I wouldn't take anything from it just yet.

Vyse The Legend · Feb 17, 2012

OmegaZero said:
Someone on 3DSForums claims to have gotten the game early and posted an impression stating the that framerate has improved and that the visuals are noticeably better then the PS2 version. This goes in line with the review statements.

He/she hasn't posted pictures or anything though, so I wouldn't take anything from it just yet.

Uh, I live near Fordham Road! I must go looking for it tomorrow.

I will take all questions then.

OmegaZero · Feb 17, 2012

Vyse The Legend said:
Uh, I live near Fordham Road! I must go looking for it tomorrow.

I will take all questions then.

Sweetness. Looking forward to that.
If he answers questions, hopefully someone will ask him which store (unless it's obvious).

EDIT: Nvm, the post says he'll be back at 8. :/
I'll just be heading off to my classes now...

CorvoSol · Feb 17, 2012

Just beat Peace Walker. Final Boss is a dirty, rotten cheater, but it was otherwise great. SO READY for this game.

SteeloDMZ · Feb 17, 2012

OmegaZero said:
Someone on 3DSForums claims to have gotten the game early and posted an impression stating the that framerate has improved and that the visuals are noticeably better then the PS2 version. This goes in line with the review statements.

He/she hasn't posted pictures or anything though, so I wouldn't take anything from it just yet.

The crow eating will be awesome if that's true.

radioheadrule83 · Feb 17, 2012

SteeloDMZ said:
The crow eating will be awesome if that's true.

To be fair, I think quite a few here have said they would be happy to be wrong and for the final version to be better...

plus, for the haters and cost conscious, there's still the idea that they get more games for their money with the HD collection etc.

UncleSporky · Feb 17, 2012

SteeloDMZ said:
The crow eating will be awesome if that's true.

Instead there will just be dozens of people saying "oh well, there are other things to criticize like the terrible gyro bridge and also who the hell would pay $40 for this garbage when you could just buy the HD collection."

creid · Feb 17, 2012

SteeloDMZ said:
The crow eating will be awesome if that's true.

Isn't it only crow-eating if they said "this looks bad and they will never fix it?" I don't think many were saying that.

SteeloDMZ · Feb 17, 2012

creid said:
Isn't it only crow-eating if they said "this looks bad and they will never fix it?" I don't think many were saying that.

There's a guy who's been saying that all along......

If they truly fixed the awful framerate and poor visuals, I'll definitely get it. I like the idea of playing this on a 3DS, even though I could get the HD remaster for the same price.

BannedEpisode · Feb 17, 2012

I really hope that the final product is more impressive than the Demo.

It felt very bland and unimpressive.

sfried · Feb 17, 2012

BannedEpisode said:
I really hope that the final product is more impressive than the Demo.

It felt very bland and unimpressive.

I think there should be a new trope for this: Never trust a demo. RE:R's demo segment is significantly different from the final product.

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