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Next Super Smash Bros. discussion thread, Community Edition

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I wonder if we'll see character damage this time? In Brawl there are textures for like slightly cracked Meta Knight and Captain Falcon Helmet. Then again I can see them adding features to character just for the sake it if they go that way like Bowser's Crown.

I wish Nintendo would do what Capcom did with Street Fighter 2 HD Remix and get the fan community to contribute music for the game. That would be amazing.
The had enough (I assume) rights issues with the music with some planned tracks being cut (I assume thats why "You can do anything"*, the plagarised MGS theme and its beatmania mix among others were cut, I can imagine some of the others were lousy mixes or ran out of disc capacity) and the like it even makes me wonder if Sakurai will get his composer friends on board again. I mean as it was the New Pork City track was from an existing arrange album and a few other Nintendo franchises have such things so they can get away without composing original music. Plus presumably the Brawl pool still exists.

Unless you're proposing, your song could be in the game but it has to the Doctor Mario theme.

*-The last sighting of this, Sonic CD appeared without its lyrics :(

But yeah if they're going to do DLC I don't think we'll see custom soundtracks as too much money to had in music DLC (plus codec license, more for the Wii U thread but is it possible for Nintendo to cheat and have the codecs as part of the OS that the games call to thus only needed a system license and not one for each software that uses it; otherwise they could convert to propitiatory codec within the OS which also eliminate that need...oh who am I kidding they'll sell software to do that for $10 and then have no games support it)

Rosalina
She's the latest actual character (Character, not a rep for a race of beings or a different version of a main character) from the series and they seem to really want her to be in the Mario gang now that she's in the side games.

Move-set made around witchcraft and galaxy stuff.
If they get lazy, Heavy Peach with Luma instead of toad.
 

KevinCow

Banned
K. Rool will make his glorious return in DKCR2. I believe. In his Kaptain outfit, of course, because that was the best. It should really be his default instead of King. And he has the best boss theme ever, I mean holy crap, listen to that.


Though aside from being the best, his Kaptain outfit would just make the most sense in Smash. King just doesn't have a whole lot of moves to draw from. He's got his crown boomerang and butt stomps and making canonballs fall from the sky. Do we really need another heavy character with a butt stomp? I just can't see King being very interesting. They either invent a bunch of moves out of nowhere that don't really represent the character (not unheard of for Smash; see Wario or even DK), or you wind up with another Bowser minus the things that make Bowser interesting.

What we don't have is a heavy character with a projectile focus. Kaptain has a blunderbuss that can shoot whatever the hell you can think of. He already has a number of moves to draw from his fights in the game:

- Shooting fire out of his gun and using it as a rocket; could be used as a dash attack as it is in the game, or for recovery.
- Sucking things in with his gun, which could be used as a grab, or a projectile counter at the cost of some damage.
- Spiked balls.
- Non-spiked balls that can be picked up again.
- Blue clouds that freeze.
- Red clouds that slow.
- Purple clouds that reverse controls.
- All the above projectiles can fly straight, bounce on the ground, or spiral through the air.
- Invisibility, because why not.

If you need more, then you know what, you can invent it, because damn near anything could come out of that gun and I wouldn't be surprised. Throw in King's move where he summons a cannonball from the sky while you're at it.


Though I have no idea why I typed all this, because he still doesn't have any chance to get in. Maybe if he pops back up in DKCR2, but even then, I'm not entirely sure Sakurai is aware of games developed outside of Japan.
 

GamerSoul

Member
alright I'm kinda convinced that K.Rool could be decent eventhough I've never got that far to fight him in a DK game. I just remember him from the animated show lol.

So far the Nintendo antagonist are:

Bowser
King DDD
Ganondorf
Wolf

With the potential to add:
Ridley
K.Rool
and maybe Bowser Jr.

Does that seem good enough?
I'm still hoping for Syrup but thats just wishful thinking and she's more like a rival to Wario at this point.
 

KevinCow

Banned
Bowser
Dedede
Ganondorf
Wolf

Ridley
K. Rool
Medusa
Black Shadow takes Ganondorf's move set, Ganondorf gets a new one
Mewtwo comes back


Villains for every series currently represented except Yoshi and Wario, because I don't think their villains have much of a chance, and besides, Wario's kind of already a villain himself; Pikmin, Ice Climber, and Game & Watch, because there aren't really villains from those that would make any sense; the third-parties, because we're unlikely to get multiple reps from one third-party franchise; and then Earthbound and Fire Emblem.

As far as Earthbound is concerned, I just don't think it'll get another rep. You could do something with Pokey, put him in a machine or something, or go with Masked Man... but I just don't see it happening.

For Fire Emblem, I expect they'll stick to the formula of Marth and whoever the latest lord is.
 

SmithnCo

Member
Black Shadow/Samurai Goroh would make for good antagonists but I really doubt they'd add another F-Zero rep.

I think Medusa has a good shot.

Hopefully some series without playable antagonists might get a story mode boss, fighting a boss from Pikmin might be cool, like Emperor Bulblax.
 

KevinCow

Banned
Yeah, I don't think F-Zero has a high chance of a new character on its own. Black Shadow taking Ganondorf's move set and Ganondorf getting a new one is pretty much the only scenario in which F-Zero gets a second rep.
 

GamerSoul

Member
Forgot Medusa, she has a great shot getting in. Hmm..Black Shadow? In a perfect world he'll have an Kick or elbow that rivals Captain's punch and knee. lol.

Hopefully some series without playable antagonists might get a story mode boss, fighting a boss from Pikmin might be cool, like Emperor Bulblax.

i was thinking this too. It's better than creating random enemies for bosses.
 
Sakura Samurai:
Neutral B: The Sakura Samurai lunges forward, drawing his sword in a single horizontal slash. Low priority, so most other attacks will block it, requiring careful timing. If it connects with an opponent, can be no-charge/wind up combo'd into any Smash attack. If blocked, the Samurai's sword will take a small amount of cumulative wear, which decreases his power over time (think reverse Lucario).

Side B: The Sakura Samurai throws a frog projectile in an arc. Has a small % chance of being a shuriken (straight line projectile) or a smoke bomb

Down B: A backwards side step/dodge. If performed right before an attack would have hit the Sakura Samurai, the Samurai will counter attack with his Neutral B automatically.

Up B: A whirl of cherry blossom petals propels the Sakura Samurai upwards for an overhead strike.

Final Smash: Something involving the Kappa and watermelons.

EDIT: Going to make a Mallo moveset; make him a grapple-based sumo guy (makes sense right?)
 

Azure J

Member
Bowser
Dedede
Ganondorf
Wolf

Ridley
K. Rool
Medusa
Black Shadow takes Ganondorf's move set, Ganondorf gets a new one
Mewtwo comes back


Villains for every series currently represented except Yoshi and Wario, because I don't think their villains have much of a chance, and besides, Wario's kind of already a villain himself

Kamek could totally make a good showing for Yoshi villain, but I guess he falls into that ambiguous "will he be looked at" area. As for Wario, I like the idea of an anti-hero versus an opportunist too much to not support Captain Syrup being an "antagonist" and also a link back to Wario Land. The issue with her is just how obscure she is (most people probably know Wario for Warioware) combined with what she could do for a unique roster addition.
 

GamerSoul

Member
As for Wario, I like the idea of an anti-hero versus an opportunist too much to not support Captain Syrup being an "antagonist" and also a link back to Wario Land. The issue with her is just how obscure she is (most people probably know Wario for Warioware) combined with what she could do for a unique roster addition.

Truth. I feel the same way. I played the the Wario Land games and theyre pretty fun. The dynamic would turn out pretty awesome Greedy vs Greedy hah. I wanted her in Brawl but she was really, really obscure. Her chances are only slightly better now since she was in a recent game Wario Land Shake where she basically help set the plot of the whole game and used Wario to her advantage without you knowing till the end. But, we could possibly see another wario character from the WWare series instead though like you said.
 
Mewtwo is still going to be the most desired Pokemon "newcomer" regardless of what happens.

I'm sure Mewtwo wouldn't be counted as a newcomer in any way but yes, he is likely the most wanted that wasn't in Brawl seeing as people know GF will get Zoroark in along with maybe the new starters anyway unless they go 6th gen (and they will go 6th gen).

.
 

Thores

Member
I'm sure Mewtwo wouldn't be counted as a newcomer in any way but yes, he is likely the most wanted that wasn't in Brawl seeing as people know GF will get Zoroark in along with maybe the new starters anyway unless they go 6th gen (and they will go 6th gen).
I'm not sure why it's being treated as a given that Gen 6 will be on shelves by the time SSB4 releases. I imagine that we're getting the new Smash Bros, even if Sakurai takes his time, by somewhere around Holiday 2014. Going by last gen's Pokemon reveal trends, it's going to be even longer before we even get a glimpse of Gen VI.

Let me give an example of what I mean by showing you the pace at which we saw at-the-time not yet officially revealed Pokemon for Gens 4 and 5, both before and after the release of the actual games:

2005- Lucario revealed
2006- Manaphy revealed
Sep 2006- JP release of Diamond/Pearl
Feb 2007- Darkrai revealed
Feb 2008- Shaymin revealed
Feb 2009- Arceus revealed
Feb 2010- Zoroark revealed
August 2010- Victini revealed
Sep 2010- JP release of Black/White
Feb 2012- Keldeo revealed

So you'll notice that we got an early reveal with Victini, and then no reveal at all in 2011 to balance it out. But the rough pacing is one event Pokemon per year until they run out, then at least one year after that featuring an early appearance of a Pokemon from the next gen. Let's apply that pace to the rest of Gen V:

Feb 2013- Meoletta revealed
Feb 2014- Genesect revealed
Feb 2015- First Gen VI Pokemon revealed
Fall 2015- Earliest likely JP release of Gen VI
Spring 2016- Earliest likely US release of Gen VI

I'm not saying that theoretical release list is flawless and will absolutely happen without a doubt, but going by previous patterns and the precedents already set I'd say it's a pretty solid educated guess. And Sakurai's pretty delay prone, but I kinda doubt Pokemon 6 coming out on or before late 2014, let alone us not getting the next Smash till 2015/2016.

What wouldn't surpise me, though, is a playable Genesect. Schedule for that seems to line up pretty okay.
 

Rlan

Member
Mona_2_WarioWare_Mega_Microgames.png


299px-Jimmy_T._WWM.png
 
I'm not sure why it's being treated as a given that Gen 6 will be on shelves by the time SSB4 releases. I imagine that we're getting the new Smash Bros, even if Sakurai takes his time, by somewhere around Holiday 2014. Going by last gen's Pokemon reveal trends, it's going to be even longer before we even get a glimpse of Gen VI.

Let me give an example of what I mean by showing you the pace at which we saw at-the-time not yet officially revealed Pokemon for Gens 4 and 5, both before and after the release of the actual games:

2005- Lucario revealed
2006- Manaphy revealed
Sep 2006- JP release of Diamond/Pearl
Feb 2007- Darkrai revealed
Feb 2008- Shaymin revealed
Feb 2009- Arceus revealed
Feb 2010- Zoroark revealed
August 2010- Victini revealed
Sep 2010- JP release of Black/White
Feb 2012- Keldeo revealed

So you'll notice that we got an early reveal with Victini, and then no reveal at all in 2011 to balance it out. But the rough pacing is one event Pokemon per year until they run out, then at least one year after that featuring an early appearance of a Pokemon from the next gen. Let's apply that pace to the rest of Gen V:

Feb 2013- Meoletta revealed
Feb 2014- Genesect revealed
Feb 2015- First Gen VI Pokemon revealed
Fall 2015- Earliest likely JP release of Gen VI
Spring 2016- Earliest likely US release of Gen VI

I'm not saying that theoretical release list is flawless and will absolutely happen without a doubt, but going by previous patterns and the precedents already set I'd say it's a pretty solid educated guess. And Sakurai's pretty delay prone, but I kinda doubt Pokemon 6 coming out on or before late 2014, let alone us not getting the next Smash till 2015/2016.

What wouldn't surpise me, though, is a playable Genesect. Schedule for that seems to line up pretty okay.

Munchlax was the first 4th gen Pokemon ever revealed in a movie and it was in Destiny Deoxys 2004 so no, next gen Pokemon can be revealed in movies about the current gen Pokemon.

Also, new gens of Pokemon come out every 3-4 years.

Pokémon Red -JP February 27, 1996
Pokémon Gold and Silver -JP November 21, 1999 (3 years)
Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire -JP November 21, 2002 (3 years)
Pokémon Diamond and Pearl -JP September 28, 2006 (4 years)
Pokémon Black and White -JP September 18, 2010 (4 years)

And given how gen 5 is on the late end of the DS life/ start of the 3DS life I'm sure they're gonna want gen 6 out sooner than later.
At the very least we should be seeing the new mascot by 2013/ 2014.
 

Thores

Member
Munchlax was the first 4th gen Pokemon ever revealed in a movie and it was in Destiny Deoxys 2004 so no, next gen Pokemon can be revealed in movies about the current gen Pokemon.

Yeah, that can and has happened. It didn't happen at all in Gen IV though. The first Gen V Pokemon revealed was Zoroark, in his own movie.

Your list also proves that Generation releases went from 3 year gaps to 4 year gaps after two generations. It has been two generations since then. As the Pokemon roster gets larger and more complicated with every generation, I imagine that both the development time and the desire to stretch things out would increase. So I don't see a 5 year gap being too far fetched, especially with the reveal prediction calendar I've provided.

For your theory to come true, at least two Gen V event Pokemon would have to be revealed in the same year/movie. This is unprecedented. The slowed pace of both Pokemon reveals and releases, however, isn't. I could totally be wrong, but the patterns that I've mentioned lean things towards that outcome. I understand wanting a new generation sooner than later, believe me, I just don't find it very likely.
 
I'm not sure whether he'd be better in a pod, actually. I suppose he'd have more options, like the spinning ball or a flamethrower... The guy himself doesn't really do much. Still, he's a must-have if Sonic is staying.

At least Ocelot would be a more straight-forward grappler/projectile character.
 

PokéKong

Member
In order to get Ocelot in, Sakurai would need to ease up about the whole firearms thing. Revolver Ocelot just ain't Revolver Ocelot without some actual bullet firing pistols. Grey Fox seems like more of a shoe-in what with the whole assist trophy already.

I'm not too excited to start getting more Sonic characters in, though if Eggman were in I would want him just his regular self out of pod, using plenty of mechanization for special moves. There's something I love about his whole Adventure design, with the awesome sleeves and pants staring at you and everything.
 
PokéKong;35186994 said:
In order to get Ocelot in, Sakurai would need to ease up about the whole firearms thing. Revolver Ocelot just ain't Revolver Ocelot without some actual bullet firing pistols. Grey Fox seems like more of a shoe-in what with the whole assist trophy already.

I'm not too excited to start getting more Sonic characters in, though if Eggman were in I would want him just his regular self out of pod, using plenty of mechanization for special moves. There's something I love about his whole Adventure design, with the awesome sleeves and pants staring at you and everything.

I think Sakurai's problem with guns is asinine and something he needs to get over. At least with Ocelot, the 'Anyone could do this!' argument is bunk, given Ocelot's unique revolver skills. Besides, he's appeared on Nintendo twice now, he's worthy. And he's great.

You probably wouldn't like to hear that I'd gladly have Knuckles in too. :p
 
PokéKong;35186994 said:
In order to get Ocelot in, Sakurai would need to ease up about the whole firearms thing. Revolver Ocelot just ain't Revolver Ocelot without some actual bullet firing pistols. Grey Fox seems like more of a shoe-in what with the whole assist trophy already.

I believe the guns (real bullets, not lasers) and knives (But not swords) ban comes form either Japanese or European ratings standards. Sakurai is trying to keep the game to the equivalent of a "T" rating where possible.
 
I believe the guns (real bullets, not lasers) and knives (But not swords) ban comes form either Japanese or European ratings standards. Sakurai is trying to keep the game to the equivalent of a "T" rating where possible.

You can get the 12 rating with guns, you just have to exaggerate them, I think. PEGI can be worked with to get around that in special cases, anyway, so I believe.

CERO probably aren't so comprising. Mainly because they're FUCKING INSANE. UMvC3 got a C from CERO (15 equivalent), which is nuts, and almost certainly because of Chris and Wesker. Ugh.
 

Snakey

Member
Shadow should be forgotten because he's an awful character. Robotnik or bust.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

Also, Eggman would be much more interesting. Seeing as he fought in a mini-mech in Sonic the Fighters, I am guessing he would be a Tron Bonne type of character if he was in Smash Bros.

However, personally, I don't think third-party series should have more than one character.
 

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
You can get the 12 rating with guns, you just have to exaggerate them, I think. PEGI can be worked with to get around that in special cases, anyway, so I believe.

CERO probably aren't so comprising. Mainly because they're FUCKING INSANE. UMvC3 got a C from CERO (15 equivalent), which is nuts, and almost certainly because of Chris and Wesker. Ugh.

just use Captain N's light gun.

or duck hunt dog could use it too
 
Your list also proves that Generation releases went from 3 year gaps to 4 year gaps after two generations. It has been two generations since then. As the Pokemon roster gets larger and more complicated with every generation, I imagine that both the development time and the desire to stretch things out would increase. So I don't see a 5 year gap being too far fetched, especially with the reveal prediction calendar I've provided.

I don't think it's a sign of development time or gens being run longer, just shows that they normally go for a 3-4 year buffer between games.

And besides, among the Pokemon fanbase there seems to be an agreement that this gen is gonna be short. From the fact that it's first Pokemon was revealed the same year as it's game to the games having hints to future games in them that are normally reserved for the 3rd game in a gen.
 

Tyeforce

Member
I don't think it's a sign of development time or gens being run longer, just shows that they normally go for a 3-4 year buffer between games.

And besides, among the Pokemon fanbase there seems to be an agreement that this gen is gonna be short. From the fact that it's first Pokemon was revealed the same year as it's game to the games having hints to future games in them that are normally reserved for the 3rd game in a gen.
What hints to future games are you talking about, exactly?

And I believe this generation is going to be longer than usual too, not shorter. It just feels like they're going to stretch out this generation somehow, maybe in a way we wouldn't expect. Hell, they could practically relaunch the generation with a brand new game for 3DS. I could be wrong, of course, but I have a feeling Generation V will be around for quite awhile.
 
What hints to future games are you talking about, exactly?

And I believe this generation is going to be longer than usual too, not shorter. It just feels like they're going to stretch out this generation somehow, maybe in a way we wouldn't expect. Hell, they could practically relaunch the generation with a brand new game for 3DS. I could be wrong, of course, but I have a feeling Generation V will be around for quite awhile.

One of the game's biggest mysteries is N, where he goes in the end and his origins. In the game Looker tells you that he's been told that N was seen in some "far off land" with a Dragon Pokemon after you find the 6 sages. This reminds people of another reference to an unknown land in the 4th gen's 3rd game (Cynthia was said to be from a far off land and it turns out that she's from the 5th gen region. Apparently this has happened before in other 3rd games from a generation). Not only did that happen but Junichi Masuda openly stated N's real name on his blog last year, instead of saving it for the 3rd game everyone expects. He even goes so far as to talk about how the next gen will be blah blah blah different and such.

The 5th gen is unusual in a lot of ways ... one glaring example is in the fact that they didn't milk it's reveal. It was out the same year it was revealed. Hell, Zoroark and the new games were revealed in 2010 March and the games came out in JPN Sep 2010. An other wide open detail to remember is that B&W are games that came out at the very end of the DS life cycle and the start of the 3DS. There's no way either Nintendo or GF are gonna want to let the series sit on the sidelines for 5+ years of the 3DS's life span. They normally get the Pokemon games out an acceptable ways into the new handheld system's life, so I'm betting we're not far from a new gen.
 

PokéKong

Member
I don't see how any of those signs couldn't just point to a third 5th gen game, there's already a third dragon with Kyurem, with signs pointing to it having an alternate form to be unlocked in a future game, to follow along with the formula of the 4th gen. Plus it just seems like a lot less work with a lot more potential money to be made.
 
PokéKong;35219530 said:
I don't see how any of those signs couldn't just point to a third 5th gen game, there's already a third dragon with Kyurem, with signs pointing to it having an alternate form to be unlocked in a future game, to follow along with the formula of the 4th gen. Plus it just seems like a lot less work with a lot more potential money to be made.

I don't see how spilling secrets normally revealed in the 3rd game somehow points to a 3rd game happening but w/e.

I would think that they would like to get started on w/e big thing beyond people's expectations Junichi Masuda is referring to on the 3DS instead of working on a 3rd version of a DS game but ehh.

As for a 3rd game, one could be released this year and the next gen could come a year or 2 later. Personally I don't think that will happen ... either the 3rd game will be something unexpected or it just wont happen. Either way I don't see there being some longer-than-normal gen gap.
 

spanks

Member
I wonder if we'll see character damage this time? In Brawl there are textures for like slightly cracked Meta Knight and Captain Falcon Helmet. Then again I can see them adding features to character just for the sake it if they go that way like Bowser's Crown.

Really? Sounds pretty damn awesome, I'd something like love that. It's a wonder more fighting games don't have a damage model.

On a similar aesthetic note, anyone wish they would do away with the shield bubbles? Or at least make them more transparent?
I'd rather see, for example, Link's shield deflecting Samus' missile, than an ugly 2d circle popping in from nowhere. I think with HD, the animations will be detailed enough to tell when someone is blocking, no eyesore needed.



As for villains,
Ridley
K. Rool
Medusa
Black Shadow takes Ganondorf's move set, Ganondorf gets a new one
Mewtwo comes back
I'd be happy with this, as well as Captain Syrup hopefully. I understand why Kamek isn't that well-liked (although he could be pretty interesting), but it's a bit sad that Claus doesn't seem so popular.
Sturm would be my improbable wildcard, I love his design.
What do you guys make of Black Knight for the FE villain? He's never really mentioned around here.
 
Bowser
Dedede
Ganondorf
Wolf

Ridley
K. Rool
Medusa
Black Shadow takes Ganondorf's move set, Ganondorf gets a new one
Mewtwo comes back


Villains for every series currently represented except Yoshi and Wario, because I don't think their villains have much of a chance, and besides, Wario's kind of already a villain himself; Pikmin, Ice Climber, and Game & Watch, because there aren't really villains from those that would make any sense; the third-parties, because we're unlikely to get multiple reps from one third-party franchise; and then Earthbound and Fire Emblem.

As far as Earthbound is concerned, I just don't think it'll get another rep. You could do something with Pokey, put him in a machine or something, or go with Masked Man... but I just don't see it happening.

For Fire Emblem, I expect they'll stick to the formula of Marth and whoever the latest lord is.

Another Pokemon villain you could do is Team Rocket Trainer. If you follow cartoon teams, there could be a Giovanni with a team of Rhydon, Persian, and Mewtwo. Although this is just throwing possible ideas around. I'd prefer a heavily reworked Mewtwo over these other options.
 

PokéKong

Member
A great many villains are simply better left as bosses. They already established Ridley's fighting as a mix between Master Hand and Dyna Blade, and you definitely wouldn't want to turn either of those into playable characters.

I'd like it if Adventure mode kept the same basic formula as SSE, but just with a tad shorter levels, and only enemies and bosses from each franchise, no wacky new made up stuff. Then there'd be more than enough room for every great villain to appear which wouldn't be well suited as a playable character. You can get all sorts of legendary Pokemon, Fire Emblem wicked kings and dark knights, mind destroying Kirby celestial entities, Metal Gears, Space Pirates.....
 

Anth0ny

Member
You can get the 12 rating with guns, you just have to exaggerate them, I think. PEGI can be worked with to get around that in special cases, anyway, so I believe.

CERO probably aren't so comprising. Mainly because they're FUCKING INSANE. UMvC3 got a C from CERO (15 equivalent), which is nuts, and almost certainly because of Chris and Wesker. Ugh.

So, strangling and shooting with a grenade launcher (Snake in Brawl) is okay, but a comic handgun like that of Wesker in MVC3 isn't? lol
 

Azure J

Member
So Pit is totally getting a new final smash or similar courtesy of the recent Uprising trailer. making room for playable Palutena & Medusa maybe? ;)

All jokes, don't get started on me.
 
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