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DOTA 2 Datamined: Lots Of New Info, [February Open Beta Is Likely]
- Thread starter Archie
- Start date
Togglesworlh
Banned
It's also worth pointing out that the instant recognition sort of thing is really important to Valve. See: TF2's character silhouettes. Yes, the hats and weapons and shit are goofy, but it's still immediately obvious what each class is at all times.
The task becomes ridiculously more difficult in a game like Dota 2, with over 100 different characters, each with their own set of moves and particle effects and sound effects and etc., but I do not believe that they will sacrifice gameplay for hats.
The task becomes ridiculously more difficult in a game like Dota 2, with over 100 different characters, each with their own set of moves and particle effects and sound effects and etc., but I do not believe that they will sacrifice gameplay for hats.
Darth Kupi
Banned
Avocado said:
Dance In My Blood said:
Togglesworlh said:
If that's the case, well I guess I will have to get into nitty-gritty modding my game then.
Its sad that I'm already planning circumventing this crap, on a game that's not been released yet.
EmCeeGramr
Member
No way dude, I can't tell the difference between a Spy and a Heavy anymore. The very tops of their heads are different, so the bottom 90% of the silhouette and all the different unique identifying animations, poses, and color schemes are now worthless.Uriah said:
tiltnkirby
Member
I don't really think it'll be that bad. I'm more worried about the idlers in games for the hat drops, now that's going to suck. Unless they do a system of random drops at the end of a match with a higher chance on win, in that case, enjoy the idling still.Darth Kupi said:If that's the case, well I guess I will have to get into nitty-gritty modding my game then.
Its sad that I'm already planning circumventing this crap, on a game that's not been released yet.
jediyoshi said:
One has a can of soda, the other has a sandvich. Both are used by your mouth and require a complex system of sciency stuff to make it into energy, needless to say, it's tough telling them apart from that fact alone.
Togglesworlh
Banned
You are... wrong.Dance In My Blood said:
I don't really understand what you're trying to do here.EmCeeGramr said:
Obviously the Heavy is very distinct, but the rest of the TF2 cast is pretty similar in terms of their build, and find variation in their exaggerated facial features and heads. This is obviously something Valve spent a lot of time with, or they wouldn't have bothered to have such extensive facial animations in the game.
Hats, accessories, and new items radically alter the animations, poses, and color schemes of all the TF2 characters. So while you're trying to be sarcastic or something, the reality is that this:
varies wildly from the original:
It is a different silhouette, it has different colors, animations, and poses. So yes, the additional attachable items in TF2 have had a dramatic impact on easily reading opponents. A yellow helmet no longer means "Hey, that's an Engineer," it could be any class. A lot of people like collecting stuff in TF2, and it has been an effective business model, but to pretend that it has had no effect on the visual style of the game is silly.
People seriously get confused as to what classes they see, based on the various items in TF2? I can't think of one instance in my hundreds of hours playing, where I mistakenly took one class for another. Neither of those demoman pictures look anything like any other class. Both poses are distinct to that class.
Togglesworlh
Banned
One time I saw a soldier with a viking helmet and thought it was a scout.parasight said:
Not even close to the truth.Dance In My Blood said:
These are older designs for some of them, particularly the Demoman (rightmost class), but the principle is the same and remains. IDing the classes has never had much to do with the heads of the classes, as you can see they're soft differentiators at best. The shaping and cladding of the head is a footnote in the terms of the silhouettes, it's all about body size and proportions, outer lines and volume. The game is as instantly readable as it has always been, because the items' alteration of silhouette is slight. What the items alter a great deal is the "flavor" of the class (colour/shape of the face and head regions, etc), but flavor was a secondary identifier to begin with and never all that strong. The Silhouette has been and remains king.
If Valve were to issue long cloaks, voluminous costumes, or alternate character models entirely, that would have the effect of destroying the silhouetting.
Aside: the extensive facial animations tech existed before TF2 was completed, it was pioneered in HL2 and the episodes and then used for Team Fortress to aid fleshing out the personalities of the characters.
Dance In My Blood said:Hats, accessories, and new items radically alter the animations, poses, and color schemes of all the TF2 characters. So while you're trying to be sarcastic or something, the reality is that this:
varies wildly from the original:
It is a different silhouette, it has different colors, animations, and poses. So yes, the additional attachable items in TF2 have had a dramatic impact on easily reading opponents. A yellow helmet no longer means "Hey, that's an Engineer," it could be any class. A lot of people like collecting stuff in TF2, and it has been an effective business model, but to pretend that it has had no effect on the visual style of the game is silly.
The first example you gave was of a class that looks different when it is PLAYED different. Its helpful that the pose and silhouette are different because it poses a completely different threat than a normal demoman!
I don't see a yellow helmet and think "engineer," I see a short class, in overalls, with a different posture, carrying around a shotgun or a toolbox, in close proximity to deployables. LIKE I ALWAYS HAVE.
The classes are still quite distinct and the items do not change that at all.
This is what has become of us. Data mining game clients sniffing for a hint of Episode 3. It must be a running joke at Valve by now...
Gabe: "Hey Lombardi?! Throw a bone in the DOTA 2 game client to those wacko nerds."
Lombardi: "Do you want some potatoes with that or just more hats?"
Gabe: "Hats. Lots of them."
Lombardi and Gabe: "Muahuahuahuahua"
Gabe: "Hey Lombardi?! Throw a bone in the DOTA 2 game client to those wacko nerds."
Lombardi: "Do you want some potatoes with that or just more hats?"
Gabe: "Hats. Lots of them."
Lombardi and Gabe: "Muahuahuahuahua"
Togglesworlh
Banned
All of my enemies wear red shirts so they're basically the same class.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Idle Thumbs podcast. I suspect someone at Valve is a fan of Idle Thumbs.Buzzati said:
If I recall correctly, "shitty wizards" in particular spawned from discussion about Magicka, although I'm not 100% on that.
Either that or they just hate wizards.
Placeholders are awesome. They need to be saved and archived for later use.
Also, as far as the TF2 silhouette side discussion is concerned: the silhouettes and animations are the primary ways to tell the classes apart at a glance. The items don't change that. I've never confused one class for another. You're more likely to confuse teams than you are classes, and barring a dark map, it's pretty hard to confuse team colors.
Also, as far as the TF2 silhouette side discussion is concerned: the silhouettes and animations are the primary ways to tell the classes apart at a glance. The items don't change that. I've never confused one class for another. You're more likely to confuse teams than you are classes, and barring a dark map, it's pretty hard to confuse team colors.
dragonlife
Member
Do a lot of the male voice actors sound the same to everyone else? That "shitty wizard" YT vid sure made it seem like it.
FieryBalrog
Member
Or any other dwarf for that matter.Teknopathetic said:
FieryBalrog
Member
It comes from the Enchanting guy in Torchlight who can wipe the mods on your item when he fails an enchant.Togglesworlh said:
It was part of a larger ongoing meme about "the Wizard" which started when Diablo 3 announced the Wizard class and people complained about the name.
angular graphics
Banned
balladofwindfishes said:
From reddit, the new head model is actually a new guy.
Comparison:
ThaiGrocer
Member
I miss the old Valve head, not to mention the cooler looking valve on the guy. They have a bunch of people from WETA digital, why can't they preserve the old one and animate it?
2004 Fat Laurence Fishburne --> 2011 Cee-lo Green
2004 Fat Laurence Fishburne --> 2011 Cee-lo Green
Togglesworlh
Banned
Ah, yeah, that's right. I think Magicka was a "shitty wizard simulator", though?n0b said:
ScepticMatt
Member
dragonflys545
Member
Jesus I need to get my hands on the BETA RIGHT NOW!
RaGMasTeR90
Member
azuki said:
i think it will depend on which item slot your weapon is and if it makes sense. I guess melee heros dont need to equip eaglehorn ^^ would look strange if they melee other heros with a bow