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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread

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Obama should hammer the shit out of Romney for this, what was his fallacy being gay??
You can't really hammer Romney on this. He hired the guy, knowing he was openly gay. He felt that he was a good candidate for spokesperson. And Romney didn't fire the guy, he resigned.

Feel free to hammer the activists who were outspoken that the guy resign, though.
 
Romney campaign #FAIL

Openly gay Romney spokesperson Richard Grenell resigns after Conservative outrage and thorough web scrubbing.
http://www.businessinsider.com/richard-grenell-gay-mitt-romney-spokesman-resigns-2012-5

richard.png
Zing


In an unrelated matter, Grenell had come under fire for his Twitter account. He deleted nearly 1,000 tweets upon his hire, most of them targeted at members of the media, Hillary Clinton, Michelle Obama, Rachel Maddow, and even Newt Gingrich and wife Callista.
Now gay people generally don't hate women . . . . but this guy sure had a weird issue of spewing jabs at women who are not the main center of attention. Weird.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
You can't really hammer Romney on this. He hired the guy, knowing he was openly gay. He felt that he was a good candidate for spokesperson. And Romney didn't fire the guy, he resigned.

Feel free to hammer the activists who were outspoken that the guy resign, though.

Did Romney make any attempts to defend the guy?
 
You can't really hammer Romney on this. He hired the guy, knowing he was openly gay. He felt that he was a good candidate for spokesperson. And Romney didn't fire the guy, he resigned.

Feel free to hammer the activists who were outspoken that the guy resign, though.

It is reasonable to expect Romney to call out those activists that forced the resignation for being despicable human beings though. Instead we get total silence because Romney has to placate bigots to run a campaign and knows this.

Imagine for a second that "activists" raised a similar outcry over that guy being black, or hispanic, or a woman? “Suppose Barack Obama comes out — as Grenell wishes he would — in favor of same-sex marriage in his acceptance speech at the Democratic National Convention. How fast and how publicly will Richard Grenell decamp from Romney to Obama?”

you could substitute "The dream act" or "women's rights legislation" instead of "same sex marriage" there quite easily. No one would stand for it. Unfortunately it's still "OK" to publically humiliate and descriminate on the basis of sexual orientation.
 

Chichikov

Member
Im not overselling. It was really intense. I'm on android but heres the link http://www.mediaite.com/tv/piers-mo...over-obamas-campaigning-on-bin-laden-success/

Goldberg was destroyed. Its good journalism.
I watched a minute and it already reinforce all the negative prejudice I have against Piers Morgan.
The guy lay down what has got to be one of the dumbest premises for a book ever, something that anyone with a brain can and should demolish in like 5 seconds, but Piers Morgan just ignore the bullshit and immediately switch to horse race crap.
 
You can't really hammer Romney on this. He hired the guy, knowing he was openly gay. He felt that he was a good candidate for spokesperson. And Romney didn't fire the guy, he resigned.

Feel free to hammer the activists who were outspoken that the guy resign, though.
You can still hammer Romney. The guy he hired "was supposed to lead the Romney campaign on the issue of foreign policy and national defense."

He hired a self-loathing gay guy who bashed women and then had his knees buckle as soon as some bigot theocrat complains. If Romney hires foreign policy & defense people that can't handle the American Family Association, how are his hires supposed to handle Ahmedinijad or North Korea?
 
You can't really hammer Romney on this. He hired the guy, knowing he was openly gay. He felt that he was a good candidate for spokesperson. And Romney didn't fire the guy, he resigned.

Feel free to hammer the activists who were outspoken that the guy resign, though.

The main reason he resigned was in the midst of all this talk about National Security the Romney campaign didn't let him say anything and kept him under wraps.

"According to sources familiar with the situation, Grenell decided to resign after being kept under wraps during a time when national security issues, including the president's ad concerning Osama bin Laden, had emerged front and center in the campaign."

I don't think Obama needs to directly attack Romney on this though.
 

markatisu

Member
He hired a self-loathing gay guy who bashed women and then had his knees buckle as soon as some bigot theocrat complains. If Romney hires foreign policy & defense people that can't handle the American Family Association, how are his hires supposed to handle Ahmedinijad or North Korea?

And you just made what the commercial should be

Romney deserves to get bashed, he hired the guy who was openly gay and openly aggressive to women. The base gets upset and special interests force him to resign and Romney says nothing...WTF

And come the fuck on, he "resigned" is just nice speak for he was forced to leave
 

Tim-E

Member
I don't think this guy leaving his post should be made into an issue that Obama talks about himself. It should stay within the realm of talking heads and blogs, but it's nothing Obama needs to address.
 
I don't think this guy leaving his post should be made into an issue that Obama talks about himself. It should stay within the realm of talking heads and blogs, but it's nothing Obama needs to address.

That I can agree on. He needs to be called out on it, (I didn't even known Grennell was a woman basher...that just makes it worse) but Obama shouldn't really be the one to do it.
 
If it hadn't worked out, the GOP, their SuperPacs, and their other allies would make damn sure we're reminded of Obama's failure, Obama's "Blackhawk Down 2.0, Obama needlessly endangering the troops, Obama's foreign policy incompetence, etc...

They go after Obama for speaking to school children. They attack him for the pettiest of reasons. Do they think they're fooling anyone when they say they wouldn't have criticized Obama if the operation had failed?

They've been blaming Carter for a sandstorm for thirty years.

God damn, jab after jab, and then "oh yea".

lol

I think that Swiss Bank line falls a little weak.
 
Not as bad as Rubio's bullshit. It sounds like after scouring tons of material, they found one thing that had her mention it. Rubio, on the other hand, constantly touted how his family was persecuted by Castro. Both things are pretty stupid though.

I heard this on Smerconish's show. This is really a non-issue....and a dumb topic to begin with. Go after her things of merit not this nonsense.
 

remist

Member

"It's just what you expect from a guy who had a swiss bank account"

I don't get what's so terrible about him having money in a swiss bank account. Is this line just there to point out how rich he is?

also

We don’t know if he’s using these accounts to avoid paying his fair share in taxes, but we do know that in 2010, Romney’s tax rate was a startlingly low 13.9%.

I hate these "We don't know if he was doing something nefarious, but we sure hope you'll infer that he was." lines.
 

RDreamer

Member
Alright, thanks for the help guys. I now know a lot more about Obamacare. Yay.

Anyway, here's the email I sent back to my dad. I also sent it to my sister, since he put her in the email, too, and I know she doesn't have time to research this stuff. I don't want her getting guilt tripped into voting a certain way just because she falsely believes it'll have an adverse affect where it shouldn't.

If obama care goes into effect this company and employees will have to pay 40% tax on what our health care program is worth. (Value)

The only tax that's 40% is an excise tax that is it's only taxed if you have a so-called "cadillac" health insurance plan. In order to hit this 40% tax you have to break the threshold of $10,200 per year for individual or $27,500 for a family plan. These thresholds were even raised higher because unions lobbied to try and get their jobs not affected by it, and their jobs normally have very good plans. Most high risk jobs don't even hit this sort of payout, too. Your company would have to be paying out almost 8 or 9 times more than what you already put in. And that is pretty much double the average cost of health care for a family plan ($13,375 in 2009)

Next, the 40% isn't a tax on the entire sum. It's only a tax of what is in excess of this. If your plan is worth $30,000 per year, for instance, they would only be taxed at 40% of $2500, or a total of $1000.

Last, that 40% tax doesn't even take effect until 2018.

The company will most likely drop health care and pay the penalty as penalty is much lower than the tax amount.

If they do drop it it's not because of the tax amount being lower. Right now they don't have to insure you. The cost for not insuring you vs insuring you is already lower. If they do drop you they're just using the tax as a silly excuse. It would also not make much sense, because if you are getting a "cadillac" plan (high enough to hit the threshold for the tax), then they'd effectively be lowering your salary by half. They'd hemorrhage employees pretty quickly. And aside from that companies across the board have slowly been dropping employees because of rising health care costs, anyway. If they are going to drop they would likely do it anyway, reform or not. In the surveys I've found that say some employers would drop, they also found the employers would increase pay. And they'd have to, because, again, this would be like effectively dropping your salary.


That would meqn I have to get into government plan w/deductible at a set % rate of my income. Approx $4500 per year.

There isn't a government plan. The public option was, regrettably (in my opinion), dropped. If you get dropped by your company, you have to buy into an exchange that won't be set up until 2014. No one really knows the rates on that yet, and they won't be based on a % of your income. They'll likely be similar (if not lower) than what you get for private insurance currently (which as I've seen is lower than your $4,500 estimate), because the policies sold in the exchanges will be regulated for compliance with minimum standards, and the premiums will be subject to oversight.

Mom owning a business will have to pay the government a set rate for health care based on her income-as business

Mom's business is completely exempt from any sort of business mandates, since she is self-employed. You can employ even as much as 50 employees and not have to cover insurance under Obamacare. She acts as any other person and just has to have health insurance once the mandate goes into effect. So if your company kept their insurance, she'd just stay with you and nothing would change. If your company dropped you as you think they might, then you would get private insurance in the exchange, which, again, shouldn't hit your $4500 mark.

Must pay penalty or rate no matter what in order to provide health care to the people who do not have health care.

To say it's in order to provide health care to those who don't have it is kind of disingenuous at best. We currently provide people who do not have health care in that hospitals cannot turn them away when something is life threatening, and that means we currently pay for their bills when they cannot. We pay in increased medical costs.

The other thing is that the penalty is, oddly enough, completely and utterly toothless. You don't have to pay it at all. The very most they could do is send you a strongly worded letter. The act explicitly states you can't be fined or have anything garnished from wages and you can't be put in jail. They can do nothing.

The % rate for Mom based on last year income is approx $4000 dollar per year. $4000 + $4500=$8500 per year

On top of those numbers not being known at all, mom will likely get tax credits for being a small business. You could also get tax credits and subsidies because you may fit between 133% and 400% of the federal poverty level.



And, lastly, we don't really love Obamacare that much. While you seem to see it as a handout to those who don't have insurance, that's not really the case. It's more of a handout to insurance companies. We would much prefer a single payer system, which would really hit to the heart of the matter of rising health care costs. Medicare for all should (and likely will) be the banner that we should fight for. Medicare's administration costs are 1% of what's put into the system. That means that literally 99% of the funds put into medicare are going to actual medical costs. With the Obamacare mandate private insurance only has to hit 80%. With a "Medicare for all" solution, there would be a larger risk pool, and costs for everyone would go down to begin with. Along with that, then our government could put pressure and negotiate to lower costs across the board. Quite frankly it's unacceptable that we pay literally double what most other civilized nations around the world pay in health care costs. The system is bloated and doesn't work. Obamacare isn't great, but it is better overall than what we had. It's a cruddy stop-gap solution until we get to actual health care reform.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Well-constructed and argued. It sounds very much like your parents stand only to benefit from the health care reform legislation, and even that won't be tangibly impacting them for a few years.
 

RDreamer

Member
Amazing Democratic ad in Wisconsin about equal pay for women. Definitely watch it for the ending.

Man I need to see your dad's response.

Going to be interesting for sure. I'm not sure he'll be ready for straight up numbers from me. I'm not sure how educated he thinks I am on these sorts of things. I would have likely just ignored it if it weren't for the fact that he sent it to my sister as well. I know she can't get into politics because she has very little time with school and work, and I really felt like if she read that she'd feel overwhelmingly guilty and might be swayed. So the response is more for her than for him, I guess.
 

Vahagn

Member
RDreamer


Well done man.


Most Conservatives and Right Wing people believe what they believe because they're fed all sorts of misconstrued information or incorrect statistics from their media outlets. And of course these are designed to follow the less government/lower taxes ideology more often than not.



So he's clearly mis-informed. My cousin who is a huge conservative is also a lawyer and read much of information out there on ObamaCare and concluded that even though she doesn't principally agree with the individual mandate, a lot of the numbers are totally misrepresented in conservative media outlets
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
I gotta say I am very uneasy about the SEALs that are speaking out about Obama's ad. I certainly do not begrudge them their right to be personally offended and privately disagree with anything the president says or does, but publicly contradicting the commander-in-chief is very dicey territory. More than any political impact it depicts our country at large as weak and quarrelous.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
I thought it's always been a swing state, in regards to 2012 I mean.

I think their point was - it's going to remain such going forward. The map is permanently expanded. There had been some suggestions that last cycle was a fluke or part of a wave that would not be repeated. (Something anyone who looked at the demographic trends in NC would be able to refute.)

This time last year, in the aftermath of the 2010 GOP wave, there was a lot of talk about Obama working a much smaller electoral map this time around, with NC not on it.
 
I think their point was - it's going to remain such going forward. The map is permanently expanded. There had been some suggestions that last cycle was a fluke or part of a wave that would not be repeated. (Something anyone who looked at the demographic trends in NC would be able to refute.)

This time last year, in the aftermath of the 2010 GOP wave, there was a lot of talk about Obama working a much smaller electoral map this time around, with NC not on it.
I know that's what some people were telling me a while back.
 

Tim-E

Member
I've been kind of worried that both VA and NC were flukes like Indiana, but it appears as if they've genuinely entered long term swing state territory.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
W
The only unfair thing about this is the assertion that under the exact same circumstances, Romney would not have attacked the compound. We can't know that for sure regardless of Romney's public position in 08; maybe he gives the call, maybe he doesn't. The only fact we have is that Obama gave the order despite more than half of his security team being in opposition, and in 2008 he told the entire world he'd do it. Meanwhile Romney told the entire world that such a move would be wrong. Romney has to live with that, and Obama exploiting that is no different than what any other president does on national security issues during an election.
.

Bull crap. Romney said that he wouldn't have even wanted to spend the time or money to go after OBL. You must be under the thought that Obama's push to capture or kill Bin Laden would have happened regardless who's president.

The guy wanted OBL the day he got into office. You have to give him and the Pentagon credit for the focus that they had to get the guy.
 
Stu Rothenberg came out with a knee-slapper about Obama winning NC in 08 was a fluke and that it would revert to its Likely R status it had in 2000/04.

And that's what the pundits want this to be - 2000/04, a too close to call election where we're waiting on results well past midnight, and extensive recounts are well underway that could flip the results. I get that predicting a comfortable victory is boring, but it's disingenuous to act like 2012 will come down to any particular state and that we're back to the Bush-Kerry map.

Rasmussen has a set of four "core states" that they poll together - NC, OH, FL, and VA. Obama could lose all of those and still eke out a win.
 
I think their point was - it's going to remain such going forward. The map is permanently expanded. There had been some suggestions that last cycle was a fluke or part of a wave that would not be repeated. (Something anyone who looked at the demographic trends in NC would be able to refute.)

This time last year, in the aftermath of the 2010 GOP wave, there was a lot of talk about Obama working a much smaller electoral map this time around, with NC not on it.

Virginia is also a permanent swing state now. PPP's latest poll has Obama up by 8
 
I've been kind of worried that both VA and NC were flukes like Indiana, but it appears as if they've genuinely entered long term swing state territory.

I've visited both states extensively the last few months, and my experience in Charlotte, Raleigh and Northern VA, I'm not really surprised. Those metro areas are definitely pulling the whole state blue along with them.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Jeffrey Phelps has a level of discernment people have said they truly rely on for their own political understanding. However, for those who have yet to discover and/or accept the facts that expose the truth about the hidden establishment matrix we truly live in, it may often be difficult to believe or even understand what's being addressed. Nevertheless, this invaluable information will ultimately give you the ability to break away from the mind entrapment of ultra elite/tax funded western establishment media and its advanced scientific societal manipulation tools and techniques.
…

LOL
 

GTI Guy

Member
Btw here's the LA weekly on the story....

http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2012/04/andrew_breitbart_coroner_poisoned_to_death.php

Spoiler alert: The next couple paragraphs will be high on facts and low on fun.

L.A. County Coroner's Assistant Chief Ed Winter tells LA Weekly that Cormier did not conduct Breitbart's autopsy. "Only doctors" ever worked on Breitbart, says Winter, because foul play was not suspected from the beginning.

And LAPD Lieutenant Alan Hamilton says that Cormier's cause of death is very much still undetermined. Cormier apparently ran a small autopsy business out of his home, on top of the many chemicals he handled at the Coroner's Office. "Even if a substance was introduced," says Hamilton, "It could be accidental, or a suicide, or a number of things."

Unless maybe Winter and Hamilton are in on the conspiracy, too?
 

Kosmo

Banned
I love how Obama is hyping up the one year anniversary of killing bin Laden. I also enjoy the hypocrisy of taking credit for it when, in the same breath, when he rails against the "rich CEOs" because they 'really don't do much to earn that money.'

I'm for giving credit to both.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
I love how Obama is hyping up the one year anniversary of killing bin Laden. I also enjoy the hypocrisy of taking credit for it when, in the same breath, when he rails against the "rich CEOs" because they 'really don't do much to earn that money.'

I'm for giving credit to both.

really, kosmo?
 

Cloudy

Banned
I love how Obama is hyping up the one year anniversary of killing bin Laden. I also enjoy the hypocrisy of taking credit for it when, in the same breath, when he rails against the "rich CEOs" because they 'really don't do much to earn that money.'

I'm for giving credit to both.

Find me a quote of Obama saying ANYTHING close this..

The GOPers are getting a taste of their own medicine on national security and they're not liking it very much lol. Obama has been blamed for everything from the unsuccessful underwear bomber to Solyndra and to the GSA and SS scandals because they "happened on his watch" regardless of whether he had anything to do with them directly or indirectly.

Why then, is the GOP whining about him trumpeting the Bin Laden operation which he actually oversaw? If a terror attack had happened on his watch, wouldn't they have pinned it on his "lack of leadership"? Hell, if the operation had gone wrong, wouldn't he have been blamed? They can't have it both ways and shame on some in the media for not calling them out on their BS!
 
The openly gay Romney campaign staffer that was hired a week ago has already resigned

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...-out-by-social-conservative-right.php?ref=fpa

Sad. If Romney had any balls, he'd call his base out for it. But he has none (not that he can borrow any from Obama, either...).

You know something is wrong with the party when you can't even hire advisers who are openly gay...


Find me a quote of Obama saying ANYTHING close this

The GOPs are getting a taste of their own medicine and they're not liking it very much. Obama has been blamed for everything from the unsuccessful underwear bomber to Solyndra and to the GSA and SS scandals because they "happened on his watch" regardless of whether he had anything to do with them directly or indirectly.

How then, is the GOP whining about him trumpeting the Bin Laden operation? If a terror attack had happened on his watch, wouldn't they have pinned it on his "leadership". They can't have it both ways and shame on some in the media for not calling them out on their BS!

Republicans forgot the 2004 election even happened. The entire thing was a 9/11 theater. The RNC convention was a disgrace.
 
Republicans forgot the 2004 election even happened. The entire thing was a 9/11 theater. The RNC convention was a disgrace.
Every time something like this comes up, I'm reminded of Mike Nelson's (MST3K) diatribe about how Democrats don't take governing seriously and that the Republicans are the true leaders.

I can't fathom how this 100% unfiltered horseshit circulates around the media without anyone fact-checking it.

Sure, there's a political benefit for Obama going to Afghanistan on the one-year anniversary of bin Laden's death, but he's doing his fucking job. He's not flying in on a jet parading Mission Accomplished banners around.

President Obama's negotiating with President Karzai in Afghanistan. Mitt Romney is at a fundraiser with Rudy Giuliani in NYC complaining about Democrats politicizing 9/11.

What the fuck.
 
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