-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Tomb Raider 2*'s budget isn't larger than Tomb Raider's, is "next chapter" of story
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
It's not acceptable to spend all of that money on tools and tech and only make one game now a days.
No it's not.
Even if you think of it as a stand alone of as new IP the games will keep sucking. The shooting, explorations, pacing, maps/caves are all just awful. the story is bleh even by video games low standard and also very predictable and the cast is weak and the gunplay might feel good but there is nothing else into it . you fight the same easy to kill generic enemies over and over with tiny change later on (no variety what so ever), the entire game give the illusion of open or option to do sneaking or other things but its game structure is just liner as fuck as you kill tons of enemies and go for scripted bullshit then cutesense and repeat over and over.
There are just too many issues with the game and too many things went wrong it has nothing to do with the old games from the series. on it's own it's still a horrible game.
grandwizard
Member
Going to chime in as another that was greatly disappointed with this reboot. Instead of retaining what makes TR good, they almost removed it completely and instead focused on turning into a third person shooter to chase Uncharted. Here is my wishlist for the sequel:
-Actual Tombs to Raid
No I don't mean the 1 or 2 room 'tombs' from the reboot that are completable in a minute and are only there as token 'see we have tombs!' filler. I mean real meaty levels full of puzzles and good platforming like St. Francis Folly. These should be the substance of the game, not the bog-standard third person cover based shooting.
-Less Combat
See above. I understand if you want to make a AAA game in this day and age you need some instances of shooting men in the face, but you can at least give it some gravitas and make it mean something. Rather than have Lara mow down 1000 dudes over the course of 12 hours, try making the encounters spread out more and much more dangerous, so each is more memorable and threatening.
-Better Platforming
The basic movement controls and reactions in the new TR just don't feel as good as they used to in the previous Crystal games. I think this is because they use more magnetization to the points where Lara can jump or stick to, and it gives a very directed and handholdey feeling. The platforming is supposed to be a challenge in these games, not an automated process like Assassin's Creed. Lara's basic movement needs some work too, they over simplified the controls because they never want people to ever miss a jump, and what it led to is an insane amount of air control. Try jumping Lara off a ledge in the game and twirling the stick back and you'll see what I'm talking about. There is no more needing to judge distances and make careful jumps, just go for it and point yourself in the direction and you'll be ok.
-Better Writing
Ditch the weak and vulnerable angle, you went too far with it anyway. We're supposed to believe the constantly complaining new Lara turns into this badass? Also new and better supporting characters. Pretty much anything would be better than Rhianna Pratchett's cast which is basically a who's who list of racial stereotypes.
-No QTEs
And if you must have them at least make the button prompts on PC actually show the damn button, and not some vague graphic that no one will be able to process in the time it takes before a wolf eats your throat.
-Actual Tombs to Raid
No I don't mean the 1 or 2 room 'tombs' from the reboot that are completable in a minute and are only there as token 'see we have tombs!' filler. I mean real meaty levels full of puzzles and good platforming like St. Francis Folly. These should be the substance of the game, not the bog-standard third person cover based shooting.
-Less Combat
See above. I understand if you want to make a AAA game in this day and age you need some instances of shooting men in the face, but you can at least give it some gravitas and make it mean something. Rather than have Lara mow down 1000 dudes over the course of 12 hours, try making the encounters spread out more and much more dangerous, so each is more memorable and threatening.
-Better Platforming
The basic movement controls and reactions in the new TR just don't feel as good as they used to in the previous Crystal games. I think this is because they use more magnetization to the points where Lara can jump or stick to, and it gives a very directed and handholdey feeling. The platforming is supposed to be a challenge in these games, not an automated process like Assassin's Creed. Lara's basic movement needs some work too, they over simplified the controls because they never want people to ever miss a jump, and what it led to is an insane amount of air control. Try jumping Lara off a ledge in the game and twirling the stick back and you'll see what I'm talking about. There is no more needing to judge distances and make careful jumps, just go for it and point yourself in the direction and you'll be ok.
-Better Writing
Ditch the weak and vulnerable angle, you went too far with it anyway. We're supposed to believe the constantly complaining new Lara turns into this badass? Also new and better supporting characters. Pretty much anything would be better than Rhianna Pratchett's cast which is basically a who's who list of racial stereotypes.
-No QTEs
And if you must have them at least make the button prompts on PC actually show the damn button, and not some vague graphic that no one will be able to process in the time it takes before a wolf eats your throat.
No, on its own it is atrocious. Why can't I have agency in games anymore? It's a fucking game and I have to go exactly where the game tells me, there's no other paths, there's no figuring out. It's atrocious. Uncharted only gets away with it because the rest of the package is so stellar, but even then I would prefer much more exploration and actual challenging puzzles and platforming.
It's funny, I didn't like those games (I only completed Legends of the three) but looking back compared with TR2013 at least they were closer to the spirit of the originals.
rocketskates
Member
IS READY
Okay, I'll go ahead and admit I also believe BioShock Infinite and The Last of Us to be overrated. Neither of those games is on my GOTY list, but I still think they're a lot better than TR2013. Both of those games still felt well-designed an unique to me.
BioShock Infinite, was, at the very least, a really good first person shooter. Not freaking amazing, but good. That's what I saw as the core of the game, and I found its action mechanics to be fun and engaging. To me it's actually the narrative stuff in BI that was overrated.
TOLU's combat I found to be deeper with more dimensions than what you find in most third person shooters. TLOU basically combined the TPS with stealth and survival elements which I found to be more engaging. I had more factors to think about in that game. It doesn't matter if Joel is more or less capable and mobile than Lara. Combat with him was still more interesting. I still don't think TOLU's level design reached the heights of Uncharted 2, or even Uncharated 3 though.
Those two games to me at least had either interesting or well-paced design. TR2013 did virtually nothing to make its action sequences stand out, and the shootouts it put you in just felt bland. I just didn't see anything in them that wasn't done better in some other shooter. TR2013 also billed itself as an adventure game -- it's freaking called Tomb Raider.
And I'm not even criticizing TR2013 as a reboot. I hadn't even played Tomb Raider until Legend (the only flaws in that game, Anniversary, and Underworld were shitty combat). I'm just criticizing TR2013 compared to other games that came out in 2013.
I'll admit TR2013 had really smooth controls, but that's about it.
At this point, people should just accept it and move on.
There was bitching in the preview thread, there was bitching in the OT, there is bitching in this thread.
It ain't gonna happen.
If you want a vintage style TR game you better hope for some Indie dev to step up.
Part of the fun was the exploration, you never knew where to go, you just tried, it was basically trial and error (is it this way?, can I jump on that surface?, will I not slide down?, can I grab that ledge?) Part of being lost was part of the fun. Looking back at it, it was a hard game.
No AAA publisher will put out a game like that any more. We're lucky we got Demon's Souls/Mirrors Edge but also just because they were new IP's. There's no way they will use a known successful IP like Tomb Raider to cater to a niche market.
Time has changed, I love vintage TR but I also love the reboot because they brought the franchise to 2013 and they did a pretty good job at that, being nominated as GOTY undermines that. (Not everything was rise and shine, looking at you "a tomb is nearby" message but good enough to see how they work the new formula from here on out)
To hate on the game just because it isn't "old tomb raider" is just shortsighted
There was bitching in the preview thread, there was bitching in the OT, there is bitching in this thread.
It ain't gonna happen.
If you want a vintage style TR game you better hope for some Indie dev to step up.
Part of the fun was the exploration, you never knew where to go, you just tried, it was basically trial and error (is it this way?, can I jump on that surface?, will I not slide down?, can I grab that ledge?) Part of being lost was part of the fun. Looking back at it, it was a hard game.
No AAA publisher will put out a game like that any more. We're lucky we got Demon's Souls/Mirrors Edge but also just because they were new IP's. There's no way they will use a known successful IP like Tomb Raider to cater to a niche market.
Time has changed, I love vintage TR but I also love the reboot because they brought the franchise to 2013 and they did a pretty good job at that, being nominated as GOTY undermines that. (Not everything was rise and shine, looking at you "a tomb is nearby" message but good enough to see how they work the new formula from here on out)
To hate on the game just because it isn't "old tomb raider" is just shortsighted
TR2013 had possessed girl and isolated samurai... That's pretty much it. The other supernatural enemies from the early designs never made it into the final product.
Sure, there was a suspension of belief with how many guys you repeated kill throughout the game... but there's got to be a happy medium between fighting velociraptors and shooting hordes of goons in the face.
Crimsonsky
Member
Looking forward to the sequel. I enjoyed the reboot far more than any other game in the series.
How are velociraptors more magical than magical weather queen and a kinda immortal army? Velociraptors actually existed.
edotherocket
Member
"
her life is changing. She cant go back to the way she was."
Makes me think she gets an office job and a boyfriend but she keeps getting drawn back into raiding tombs and turning up late for dates etc because of it.
Makes me think she gets an office job and a boyfriend but she keeps getting drawn back into raiding tombs and turning up late for dates etc because of it.
jacksepticeye
Member
I did like older TR games but the reasons I didn't like TR13 had very little to do with that.
It had really really bad characters, in any other game they would have been ripped apart. They were stereotypical and cliched and maybe even a little racist in how stereotypical they were. Lara herself was also pretty shitty and the voice sounded really forced and contrary. The story was ass, though all TR games are pretty similar in that regard.
The shooting was ok in small bursts but when they force you into enemy wave encounters it all fell apart.The game had cool stealth areas but didn't utilise them enough. Older TR games were exploration first and THEN a sprinkling of combat, the new one reversed that.
Platforming was Uncharted point and click style and let's not forget how much the game wrestled control away from you to make you auto crouch,slow walk or equip/unequip items for you.
The game had some brilliant moments where it all clicked like a forest later in the game and it felt like it ahd great potential but squandered it to appeal to more people and rake in the Uncharted cash
They introduce a survival mechanic at the start where you have to kill a deer to survive the harsh environment and it's tossed away never to be seen again, hunting ended up being an exp hunt rather than survival
The biggest offender is the lack of actual tomb raiding and puzzles. It gave you a handful of tombs and puzzles that were a total insult to any gamer.
thatJohann
Member
I don't get why people bash the new Tomb Raider. It was one of the most awesome gaming experiences I've had. I've never felt such need to protect a character as I did with Lara in the new TR.
Can't wait for re-release on PS4 and for second chapter.
Can't wait for re-release on PS4 and for second chapter.
TheSinkingKnight
Member
You could even watch someone livestream the free-to-play-game on Twitch!i can't wait to continue the nail-biting classic story of Tomb Raider!!!! It was so well written in the last game, I am excite!
Maybe they'll find a way to remove the few remaining bits of compelling interaction that are left
Free game, free stream, no interaction. WIN-WIN-WIN.
XOMTOR
Member
As a long time TR fan, it pains me to admit that I've kind of already taken that advice. Recently got into the 3D Zelda's (played some of the 2D ones, currently playing Twilight Princess) and by god, these dungeons are everything Tomb Raider tombs should be. Lara, it was nice knowing ya but the relationship is officially over.
I'm not saying TR13 didn't have its share of absurd antagonists. I'm just saying I could do with less. Original TR had what... a t-rex, raptors, Atlantian monstrosities, a demon, heck, I can't remember them all. In TR13 you have mythical adversaries, but they only show up near the end.
Personally, I just want more tombs and less troops to mow down, and no giant skeleton bosses or whatever over the top insanity that may ensue (except for the climax). If its a game boasting survival as its focus, give me something like "The Edge" or "The Gray" mixed with "Raiders of the Lost Arc."
You're mostly right unfortunately, I've already pretty much accepted that the only hope of the original style getting a modernised revival is through indie developers, or maybe some high-profile developers suddenly deciding to do something crazy-experimental (by their standards).
On the other hand I think it's fine if other people choose not to accept that, because the developers open that criticism when they change the style of something many people loved and I don't think the idea that only homogenus concepts are worthwhile in the AAA space is something to support, even if publishers obviously think it's true and are unlikely to change their minds at this point.
Mechanized
Member
Can't wait, one of the best games I've played in the last few years.
JimmyRustler
Gold Member
Jup, one of the best games this year. Bring it CD!
TheAngryMonkey
Member
Interesting just how polarizing the game is. I played TR2013 and Bioshock Infinite when they came out and TR2013 is right up there as GOTY for me. For some reason Bioshock Infinite, while having an interesting story, felt like a prettier version of generic FPS. I finished it and just didn't care.
The combat mechanics in TR2013 were perfect. I loved that I didn't have to press any buttons to get her to hide behind something. One of the most maddening aspects of playing through Mass Effect 3 on Wii U for me was the number of times I'd die or lose massive health because Shepard wouldn't respond to the take/use cover button.
I'm hoping the sequel contains the same mechanics but more tombs to explore. While I really found combat in TR2013 satisfying and mixing it in with actual tomb raiding would be good.
The combat mechanics in TR2013 were perfect. I loved that I didn't have to press any buttons to get her to hide behind something. One of the most maddening aspects of playing through Mass Effect 3 on Wii U for me was the number of times I'd die or lose massive health because Shepard wouldn't respond to the take/use cover button.
I'm hoping the sequel contains the same mechanics but more tombs to explore. While I really found combat in TR2013 satisfying and mixing it in with actual tomb raiding would be good.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Wow people still bitching about TR13, as long time TR fan I enjoyed TR13
yes I wish there was more Tombs but I still enjoyed I recognize that this was better then Underworld,Legends,Chronicles and TR3 & 2
sorry but its the dam truth out side of Legends & Underworld being just good The Last Revolution was the last decent TR game, and saying TR13 is a bad game on its own is laughable, I know its an opinion but its one best kept to yourself
now if TR2 is lacking in Tombs then I'll be concerned, but I still like what TR13 did/setup.
yes I wish there was more Tombs but I still enjoyed I recognize that this was better then Underworld,Legends,Chronicles and TR3 & 2
sorry but its the dam truth out side of Legends & Underworld being just good The Last Revolution was the last decent TR game, and saying TR13 is a bad game on its own is laughable, I know its an opinion but its one best kept to yourself
now if TR2 is lacking in Tombs then I'll be concerned, but I still like what TR13 did/setup.
RottenTanuki
Member
I hope they take their time. The original series turned to poo rather quickly.
But you did. Dinosaurs and Atlantean mutants were all TR1 had
The magical stuff doesn't wait until the end in TR13. The magical storm that traps you in the Asian Bermuda Triangle happens right at the start. The "demons" are introduced only a few hours in. Tomb Raider 2 saves all of its supernatural stuff for the end, though; except the 2 T-Rexes in the first level, but they're a secret.
I don't understand how anyone can praise Bioshock Infinite and TLOU, then go take a shit all over Tomb Raider. Even if one where to go through all the differences, they would have to admit the experiences are still pretty damn similar -- too similar to have opinions that directly oppose each other.
I can understand old-school TR fans at least. The reboot effectively erased any vestige of the series' DNA. It's the other people I don't understand.
I can understand old-school TR fans at least. The reboot effectively erased any vestige of the series' DNA. It's the other people I don't understand.
yesrushdt
Member
My feelings exactly. I only got through 25-30% of the game before I decided to quit.
I've been playing the series since '96. Not a fan of Chronicles or AOD, but at least those were far more representative of what a Tomb Raider game should be in comparison to the pathetic attempts from Crystal Dynamics.
In a perfect world the original developers from the now defunct Core Design would team with a developer like Retro Studios that makes games that are true to the originals while still being innovative. I can dream I guess.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
Tomb Raider is OK.
I think they were really confused about how to proceed in a post-Uncharted world.
The game has moments of absolute brilliance but it overstays its welcome by dragging on for too long and being, ultimately, unsatisfying from an exploration and combat point of view. I still think this sort of game needs to be made, at least as an experiment, and hopefully they can refine the experience.
I think they were really confused about how to proceed in a post-Uncharted world.
The game has moments of absolute brilliance but it overstays its welcome by dragging on for too long and being, ultimately, unsatisfying from an exploration and combat point of view. I still think this sort of game needs to be made, at least as an experiment, and hopefully they can refine the experience.
TheVampire
Banned
Of course not.
She killed hundreds of people.
Bad guys but still.
Thats gotta fuck you up.
That's my first thought as well.She should be punished,not protected.
sublimit
Banned
You know i've wondered about this many times.How expensive would it be for a game like the classic TR to be made today?The developers could use cel-shaded graphics and go for a more cartoon style in order to keep costs low (as well as be able to have more creative freedom than a realistic game would allow them),have a faster more fluid animation moveset that it would still be based on the same principles of the grid system,and the game's length to be around the original or TR2.The distribution would be through digital markets.
This hypothetic game doesn't need to be TR of course,it could be a new IP that takes inspiration from the classics.There must surely be some developers out there who still like those games and would want to make something similar but with all the bells and whistles that modern hardware allows them to implement.
I know there are many indie developers who're members in this forum and i would really appreciate if one of them offered an idea of how much this hypothetical game would cost and how much it would need to sell in order to be profitable.I may be completely wrong but i think the risk wouldn't be that great.
darylbaxter
Neo Member
If it helps, I want the music to come back for the sequel.
I interviewed the original composer for the first three Tomb Raiders to see what his opinion on it was.
I would make a new thread, but I don't have the privileges.
But he does give his opinions on the reboot and more, so it's on-topic..in a way.
Daryl interviews, Nathan McCree.
I interviewed the original composer for the first three Tomb Raiders to see what his opinion on it was.
I would make a new thread, but I don't have the privileges.
But he does give his opinions on the reboot and more, so it's on-topic..in a way.
Daryl interviews, Nathan McCree.
Can't wait. Of course, it's no longer the "real" Tomb Raider, but now Lara it's one of the best female character and I really enjoyed the reboot.
I got some fun with the multiplayer, so I'm pretty excited to see that will be still present.
Tomb Raider was one of the best looking game of the past gen, so I'm very, very curious to see how the next game will look on the new consoles !
I got some fun with the multiplayer, so I'm pretty excited to see that will be still present.
Tomb Raider was one of the best looking game of the past gen, so I'm very, very curious to see how the next game will look on the new consoles !