Support NeoGAF

Okin · Oct 29, 2006

Squeak said:
And he sure made completely sure people knew about it.
If it had been real philanthropy, he would have done it quietly, without any press releases and proclamation, for precisely the reason that it might be seen as not entirely out of the goodness of his heart but rather smart PR.

Going into fake philanthropy is probably one of the smartest PR moves ever of microsoft. The money given out will most likely come again due to increased goodwill towards the company amongst the general consumer.

It's all nice and dandy that microsoft gives money to charity, no matter the reason. But that doesn't change the fact that it has a generally very bad behavior and influence in the industry.
All the money earned from ridiculously high license contracts for governments and PC manufactures, would have helped the poor much better through better-budgeted welfare programs.

This is so ass-backwards. People should be recognized for charitable donations. A foundation that donates $30 billion should be celebrated. Who cares if MS gets some good PR? Certainly not the people whom the Gates foundation has helped.

That said, it looks like MS will almost be profitable in 2007. Perhaps they will be in the black as soon as '08, or perhaps that optimistic number is just due to the eventual Halo 3 launch.

Ash Sparrow · Oct 29, 2006

Damn i hate i remembered this thread :lol

bycha · Jan 30, 2007

For some strange reasons i can't start new threads. And can't even edit my own posts.

Mods?

So here's a rough one.

Code:

FY*       Sony**              Nintendo    Microsoft
1998    974,000,000    629,000,000
1999   1,130,000,000    645,000,000
2000    730,000,000    421,000,000
2001    -409,000,000    726,000,000
2002    623,000,000    800,000,000   -750,000,000
2003    939,000,000    560,000,000   -1,191,000,000
2004    650,000,000    316,000,000   -1,215,000,000
2005    404,000,000    777,000,000   -485,000,000
2006    75,000,00         894,000,000   -1,262,000,000
2007   -1,057,000,000  881,000,000   -384,000,000
Totals  4,059,000,000   6,649,000,000 -5,287,000,000

All the numbers but last year were collected by our best man sonycowboy and are from previous thread.

So we could all remember the name of the game. It's not for the love of interactive entertainment.

* -- it's fiscal year for both Microsoft and Nintendo
** -- it's FY+1 for Sony for comparison reasons

Microsoft Home and Entertainment through 1st H FY 2007 ended December 31
Sony Game division through 3rd Q FY 2006 ended December 31
Nintendo Overall through 3rd Q FY 2007 ended December 31

The most pure videogame sector here is Sony's reports.

All Home & Entertainment divisions but Xbox is considered to be profitable. They also started losing money on Xbox before 2002 as it had to be R&D'ed and produced. Which is more than likely another billion or so. Recent reports also contain loses on Zune (but how much you can actually lose on mp3 player?).

Nintendo releases overall earnings reports stake in pokemon + currency investments + some other minor things.

Additions, suggestions and comments are welcome.

Info:

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/kessan/english.html
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/index.html
http://www.microsoft.com/msft/default.mspx

AniHawk · Jan 30, 2007

Wait, so those are just 3 quarters for Sony and Nintendo (and whatever MS's at)? Those aren't projections for the FY?

bycha · Jan 30, 2007

3 quarters for Sony and Nintendo 2 for MS.

Real numbers for end of calendar year.

Burnst · Jan 30, 2007

Do we have the numbers since Nintendo released the Famicon?

I'm wondering if it did worse since Sony came in (and MS replaced Sega). Also, I think with the Wii and DS they could have a record year this generation..

bycha · Jan 30, 2007

Acually made mistake.

It's 1,150,000,000

Code:

FY*       Sony**              Nintendo    Microsoft
1998    974,000,000    629,000,000
1999   1,130,000,000    645,000,000
2000    730,000,000    421,000,000
2001    -409,000,000    726,000,000
2002    623,000,000    800,000,000   -750,000,000
2003    939,000,000    560,000,000   -1,191,000,000
2004    650,000,000    316,000,000   -1,215,000,000
2005    404,000,000    777,000,000   -485,000,000
2006    75,000,00         894,000,000   -1,262,000,000
2007   -1,057,000,000  1,150,000,000   -384,000,000
Totals  4,059,000,000   6,918,000,000 -5,287,000,000

Nintendo's foresacts is 990M net income for full year which means that they expect losses. Kinda strange.

No NES days numbers are not available sadly.

Yep, it's record year for them. And it's gonna only get better.

starship · Jan 30, 2007

It would be great to see these numbers from the start of PS generation back in 94-95.

starship · Jan 30, 2007

Nintendo's net income for the last 9 months of 2006 was 131,916m Yen or $1,083m.

bycha · Jan 30, 2007

Used ratio mentioned in Nintendo's report. Ratio changes all the time.

speedpop · Jan 30, 2007

Insane @ Nintendo's numbers. It will be even more cry-worthy if they become leaders in this console cycle - the whole "next-gen = more power" rule of thumb will have been thrown out the window due to their profitability on less than desired specs.

Phantast2k · Jan 30, 2007

speedpop said:
Insane @ Nintendo's numbers. It will be even more cry-worthy if they become leaders in this console cycle - the whole "next-gen = more power" rule of thumb will have been thrown out the window due to their profitability on less than desired specs.

Yeah that's true, but this Gen e.g. Sony will profit also from a raise in hdtv/hfi sales, br sales, br victory (?)-> licences, music/movie/tv direct sales trough the ps3's network and so on. see? ms and sony (even more so) don't have to sell as much as nintendo to cash in.

Saoh · Jan 30, 2007

so, Nintendo has never had loss in a year... and they´re the ones going 3rd party?

:lol

Roders5 · Jan 30, 2007

I made a graph out of boredom

herod · Jan 30, 2007

Roders5 said:
I made a graph out of boredom

Make it cumulative.

When are Nintendo buying Sony? :lol

Roders5 · Jan 30, 2007

herod said:
Make it cumulative.

Here you go kind sir

First to 10 thousand million wins

datruth29 · Jan 30, 2007

Roders5 said:
I made a graph out of boredom

Wow. I'm more impressed by Nintendo's consistency then anything else.

AlternativeUlster · Jan 30, 2007

Squeak said:
He didn't give away 30 billion in one go, it was over a period of 10 years. And of course you could keep it quite if you wanted to, don't be stupid.
Why would the beneficiary tell if he/she was told to keep quiet about it?

No matter what the truth is, that doesn't change the truth in the last part of my post.

Its also good publicity for the charity when someone donates a lot of money to it. Raises awareness.

herod · Jan 30, 2007

Roders5 said:
Here you go kind sir

First to 10 thousand million wins

thanks

that graph made me think

Neomoto · Jan 30, 2007

Nintendo really is rising to heaven.. good god at those numbers! And the future sure looks bright for them with Wii and DS.

1945er · Jan 30, 2007

datruth29 said:
Wow. I'm more impressed by Nintendo's consistency then anything else.

That should be not that surprising considering that unlike with MS and Sony, that is their only stream of income. Still I am also surprised how the console cycles don't really show up in their graph. I guess it has something to do with their refusal to sell consoles for a loss and the handheld division that helps them through the period of introducing a new console generation.
Looking at MS, i guess they have to do really well from now on to just break even in 2015...

dfyb · Apr 18, 2007

Roders5 said:
Here you go kind sir

First to 10 thousand million wins

a little easier on the eyes

Battersea Power Station · Apr 18, 2007

How looooow can you go?

Can MS see their first plus in 2008? 5 billion dollars investment for a few hundred million?

I predict minuses in the Sony column through 2010.

InterMoniker · Apr 18, 2007

DarienA said:
Man looking at those MS loses... I know you gotta lose money to make money when youare trying to break in to an industry for the long haul... but damn....

DarienA
The black man everyone can agree on

Damn is right......

When will they profit

Halo 3

Xbox 720?

dfyb · Apr 18, 2007

Battersea Power Station said:
How looooow can you go?

:lol

Hcoregamer00 · Apr 18, 2007

Nintendo should branch out to other areas, like Love Hotels and the Mail System.

the thoroughbred · Apr 18, 2007

Hcoregamer00 said:
Nintendo should branch out to other areas, like Love Hotels and the Mail System.

And non-gaming. Along with the appeal from non-gamers.

jakster4u · Apr 18, 2007

-$4,998,000,000 :lol
Go Microsoft! Keep burying yourself.

Gekkonidae · Apr 18, 2007

Microsoft must be trying to shoot the moon.

The Hermit · Apr 18, 2007

this thread is kinda old(30/1)... but yeah, I haven't seen the updated part before...

EDIT: I'm having trouble with the dates... when did 2006 begun and when did it ended? 2007 numbers are only forecasts?

Stop It · Apr 18, 2007

Gekkonidae said:
Microsoft must be trying to shoot the moon.

Whats that? first to 26 Billion lost and you win the console war by default? interesting.

Interesting to see that it is only recently that the overall profits of Nintendo and Sony have really deviated from each other, expect Ninty to hit $10Billion overall first.

cartoon_soldier · Apr 18, 2007

The MS numbers is for their whole entertainment division which saw the launch of things like Zune, etc too.

Incorrect comparisons.

Tamanon · Apr 18, 2007

Zune was just released last year wasn't it?

Nobody's impressed with Microsoft's consistency?

cartoon_soldier · Apr 18, 2007

Considering the money that MS alredy makes through their other businesses which were started many years ago (like how Sony and Nintendo's gaming business started many many years ago)...

Yeah thats right. We are comparing two old console manufacturers against a recent entrant into the same market. Awesome.

dfyb · Apr 18, 2007

cartoon_soldier said:
Yeah thats right. We are comparing two old console manufacturers against a recent entrant into the same market. Awesome.

then compare sony's first years with MS's.

MS is still dumping money left and right

soco · Apr 18, 2007

dfyb said:
then compare sony's first years with MS's.

MS is still dumping money left and right

and?

it's what MS does and how they eventually control markets. go in. lose lots of money until competitors can't compete anymore, then profit. it's worked before.

cartoon_soldier · Apr 18, 2007

dfyb said:
then compare sony's first years with MS's.

MS is still dumping money left and right

Nobody denies that Xbox was in financial terms a dismal failure.

Karma Kramer · Apr 18, 2007

Now we know why Microsoft has the $50 fee for Gold.

cartoon_soldier · Apr 18, 2007

The original thread and this one too, serve comparisons that are never EVER used in the business or financial world.

I can make a thread and just post 2007 numbers and people would think Sony should be going bankrupt.

Xavien · Apr 18, 2007

soco said:
and?

it's what MS does and how they eventually control markets. go in. lose lots of money until competitors can't compete anymore, then profit. it's worked before.

hasn't worked with Zune and iPod yet, has it?

Microsoft may be losing their touch at taking over markets nowadays.

Gekkonidae · Apr 18, 2007

Stop It said:
Whats that? first to 26 Billion lost and you win the console war by default? interesting.

In hearts, shooting the moon is when you win by getting every single bad card that you would normally avoid. Thus win by losing.

soco · Apr 18, 2007

Xavien said:
hasn't worked with Zune and iPod yet, has it?

Microsoft may be losing their touch at taking over markets nowadays.

yeah it always used to happen overnight. MS swooped right in and ousted palm in 3 months.

these things take years and years to do, and if you control the market in the end, it doesn't matter how much money you spend. i'm not defending or saying it's right, it's just how it works, and MS isn't the only one who does this.

Earthstrike · Apr 18, 2007

Wait, so fiscal yer 2007 has ended? Or are those numbers partial?

Hcoregamer00 · Apr 18, 2007

the thoroughbred said:
And non-gaming. Along with the appeal from non-gamers.

They already have some appeal to non gaming.

They should market to non humans, dogs, cats, and porcupines.

We all know that Dogs would love having their own Nintencat :lol

Phife Dawg · Apr 18, 2007

cartoon_soldier said:
The MS numbers is for their whole entertainment division which saw the launch of things like Zune, etc too.

Incorrect comparisons.

Nope, the 1.26 billion loss of fiscal year 2006 is actually just for the gaming division. Yep hard to swallow but there they are, hard, cold numbers.

Microsoft's gaming division has a history of red ink. For fiscal year 2005, it posted a loss of $485 million. For fiscal year 2006 (which ended June 30, 2006, and included the launch of the Xbox 360), it lost $1.26 billion

source: Bach via Gamespot

sedaku · Apr 18, 2007

rage1973 said:
No they can't. Sony currently has 3.27 B in cash but they have 9.56 B in debt.

Microsoft on the other hand are sitting on 31.1 B in cash with 0 debt.

If sony were to keep losing money they would run out of cash which means they would have to take out more debt in form of loans or bonds which hurts their credit rating thereby increasing the amount they have to pay in interest or write up more stocks which would hurt their current stockholders. Either way it's not a good proposition for Sony or it's stockholders.

BS!

Get in debts to get a high leverage ratio is a very common financing strategy that corporation use to get a high asset turn-over rate.

How much cash they had and how much debt are they in tell you almost nothing about their performance.

pr0cs · Apr 18, 2007

Considering gaming is the only business of Nintendo I think the values would make a lot more sense if you pitted overal company profits for all 3 companies. The graphs would make a lot more sense.

soco · Apr 18, 2007

Phife Dawg said:
Nope, the 1.26 billion loss of fiscal year 2006 is actually just for the gaming division. Yep hard to swallow but there they are, hard, cold numbers.

source: Bach via Gamespot

from the same article:

The only part of the division (which also includes productivity and mobile operations) Bach expects to lose money in fiscal year 2008 is the entertainment program, which will still be sustaining costs associated with the launch of its Zune media player.

thestopsign · Apr 18, 2007

Baiano19 said:
this thread is kinda old(30/1)... but yeah, I haven't seen the updated part before...

EDIT: I'm having trouble with the dates... when did 2006 begun and when did it ended? 2007 numbers are only forecasts?

Most fiscal years are from the end of March to the next March. So Nintendo just started their fiscal year 2008, and no the 2007 numbers aren't forcasts.

Mojovonio · Apr 18, 2007

HOLY SHIT!

I'm going to agree that the 360 will be the end of the Xbox brand.

Jesus christ, how are they ever going to make that money back?

Support NeoGAF

Sony, Nintendo, & MS videogame profitability numbers through June 30 2007

Member

Banned

Junior Member

Member

Junior Member

Member

Junior Member

psycho_snake's and The Black Brad Pitt's B*TCH

psycho_snake's and The Black Brad Pitt's B*TCH

Junior Member

Has problems recognising girls

Member

Member

Iwata een bom zal droppen

Member

Iwata een bom zal droppen

Member

Absolutely pathetic part deux

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Banned

The 'H' stands for hentai.

Member

Member

Member

Member

Perfectly able to grasp the inherent value of the fishing game.

Member

Banned

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

The 'H' stands for hentai.

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Similar threads