• Register
  • TOS
  • Privacy
  • @NeoGAF
  • Like

Jarnet87
Member
(02-17-2017, 05:14 PM)
Jarnet87's Avatar

Originally Posted by Striker

Will they care about what Ray Lewis did?

Not a chance
elrechazado
Member
(02-17-2017, 05:16 PM)
elrechazado's Avatar

Originally Posted by Striker

Will they care about what Ray Lewis did?

Did they care about Marvin Harrison?
Ninja Scooter
bow down to the
Kings in Raider hats
(02-17-2017, 05:17 PM)
Ninja Scooter's Avatar

Originally Posted by Fox318

I don't get the TO ordeal.

Was he that much of a dick behind the scenes?

He was a dick for sure, but if he was as destructive as he's not being made out to be he would not have hung around long enough to rack up some of the numbers he did.
sf2fanatic
Member
(02-17-2017, 05:17 PM)
sf2fanatic's Avatar

Originally Posted by bionic77

Not everyone is cut out to be a JCB. Not everyone gets invited to rooftop parties and that's ok.

But if i brought Magic and his ladies up to the rooftop you may reconsider, right?
Grover Cleveland
Member
(02-17-2017, 05:20 PM)
Grover Cleveland's Avatar

Originally Posted by yankeehater

I see this argument so often and it never makes sense to me. Say you get hired to decide who gets into the HoF. You have to vote on the people eligible now, you cant go back and re-vote on those older players. The fact that other assholes got in shouldnt force you to vote for current assholes.

I'd vote in all the old assholes too.

The fact of the matter is that a place in the Hall is performance-based achievement. The second you start trying to arbitrate based on he-said/he-said accounts of "who are the nice guys and who are the jerks" instead of looking at the raw numbers, you lose the plot. Terrell Owens' performance on the field more than warrants his inclusion.
Ninja Scooter
bow down to the
Kings in Raider hats
(02-17-2017, 05:21 PM)
Ninja Scooter's Avatar

Originally Posted by yankeehater

I see this argument so often and it never makes sense to me. Say you get hired to decide who gets into the HoF. You have to vote on the people eligible now, you cant go back and re-vote on those older players. The fact that other assholes got in shouldnt force you to vote for current assholes.



In no way should stuff like this be okay.

They are voting for other assholes now. Do you think Ray Lewis will get in? Yes TO's basically homophobic comments are reprehensible, but will that stop Tony Dungy from being celebrated?
yankeehater
Member
(02-17-2017, 05:21 PM)
yankeehater's Avatar

Originally Posted by Striker

Will they care about what Ray Lewis did?

It seems that the NFL HoF really does focus on on-field and locker room stuff. My guess would be that they wont try to re-litigate the Ray Lewis stuff, just like they didnt for Marvin Harrison. I also assume that Ray is pretty well liked so he wont have to much trouble getting people to come speak in favor of him. The HoF voter I heard on the radio today made a big deal about the fact that not one former teammate or coach would come and speak on TO's behalf.
MechDX
Member
(02-17-2017, 05:21 PM)
MechDX's Avatar
TO gave us a meme that will last forever!



Damn right he should be in the HoF. WIth that said Im going to start the Sage Rosenfels for HoF campaign. Rosencopter is forever!
BigAT
Banned
(02-17-2017, 05:25 PM)
BigAT's Avatar
This is the Pro Football Hall of Fame we're talking about. If anything, TO being a dick should make him more eligible to get enshrined.
Ninja Scooter
bow down to the
Kings in Raider hats
(02-17-2017, 05:25 PM)
Ninja Scooter's Avatar

Originally Posted by yankeehater

It seems that the NFL HoF really does focus on on-field and locker room stuff. My guess would be that they wont try to re-litigate the Ray Lewis stuff, just like they didnt for Marvin Harrison. I also assume that Ray is pretty well liked so he wont have to much trouble getting people to come speak in favor of him. The HoF voter I heard on the radio today made a big deal about the fact that not one former teammate of coach would come and speak on TO's behalf.

You don't think Tony Dungy's homophobia and assertion that openly gay players would be a locker room distraction was bad for his players? You don't think it could have affected his locker room negatively? Or are we letting his production and record as a coach speak for itself?

Yes TO is probably an asshole, but if he was able to stick around long enough to have a 15 year career, how destructive could he have really been? Shouldn't we let that speak for itself too?
Last edited by Ninja Scooter; 02-17-2017 at 05:28 PM.
Himynameischris
(02-17-2017, 05:26 PM)
Himynameischris's Avatar

@MikeGarafolo 22m22 minutes ago
More
On Branden Albert, Jaguars and Dolphins have talked trade, as @ArmandoSalguero says. Source says Jax is the "primary destination."

Congrats Gata!
yankeehater
Member
(02-17-2017, 05:28 PM)
yankeehater's Avatar

Originally Posted by Ninja Scooter

You don't think Tony Dungy's homophobia and assertion that openly gay players would be a locker room distraction was bad for his players? You don't think it could have affected his locker room negatively? Or are we letting his production and record as a coach speak for itself?

I said at the time I didnt think Dungy should get in. I can only guess that Dungy kept his terrible beliefs to him self when he was a HC, and didnt use them to force a team to trade him so he could get more money. You are 100% right thought other assholes have definitely gotten in and more will get in. TO does seem to be a special case in that no one who knows him likes him. So maybe the rule is you can be an asshole but dont be totally unlikable?
Tom Penny
Member
(02-17-2017, 05:29 PM)
Tom Penny's Avatar

Originally Posted by Man God

Still better than the complete joke that the MLB HoF is.

Zero unanimous right? Babe Ruth and Willy Mays didn't deserve it.
bionic77
Please, don't ask ME about Michael Jordan!
(02-17-2017, 05:35 PM)
bionic77's Avatar

Originally Posted by sf2fanatic

But if i brought Magic and his ladies up to the rooftop you may reconsider, right?

Magic and those ladies are going to be at those JCB parties.

Thats how we do.

2 more weeks!
Jarnet87
Member
(02-17-2017, 05:35 PM)
Jarnet87's Avatar

Originally Posted by Ninja Scooter

You don't think Tony Dungy's homophobia and assertion that openly gay players would be a locker room distraction was bad for his players? You don't think it could have affected his locker room negatively? Or are we letting his production and record as a coach speak for itself?

Yes TO is probably an asshole, but if he was able to stick around long enough to have a 15 year career, how destructive could he have really been? Shouldn't we let that speak for itself too?

Teams are willing to put up with a lot of crap. We see awful players get shots on multiple teams. We see good players with lots of legal problems get opportunities. Front Offices will turn a blind eye for great players or just be naive and think they can handle a problem case.
yankeehater
Member
(02-17-2017, 05:36 PM)
yankeehater's Avatar
Bill Polian weighed in on TO:

“The Hall of Fame ought to be for people who make their teams better,” Polian said, “not for those who disrupt them and make them worse.”

Tony Dungy:

By many reports, Dungy received the 5th and final Modern-Era spot for enshrinement this year, after the Selection Committee was decided on Brett Favre, Marvin Harrison, Orlando Pace, and Kevin Greene.

Peter King offered some insight into the arguments in the room for and against Dungy. On one hand, Dungy is only 22nd all-time in wins, with a 9-10 playoff record, and only one Super Bowl. On the other hand, the arguments for Dungy were the same we mentioned on Colts UpClose. Dungy’s 10.7 wins per year is the best in NFL history, and he’s the only coach to ever take teams to the playoffs in 10 straight years.

Talk of Fame called Dungy’s selection the toughest call.

So it does sound like the voters were split on Dungy but he did get in.
MechDX
Member
(02-17-2017, 05:38 PM)
MechDX's Avatar

Jason Reid ‏@JReidESPN 21h21 hours ago
More
For the past couple of years, former Redskins officials who know Cousins have said he really doesn't want to be in Ashburn. He wants tag.

So Cousins doesnt want to be in Washington? If true and you are the Niners, do you trade your first for him? Tag and trade deal
Ninja Scooter
bow down to the
Kings in Raider hats
(02-17-2017, 05:39 PM)
Ninja Scooter's Avatar

Originally Posted by Jarnet87

Teams are willing to put up with a lot of crap. We see awful players get shots on multiple teams. We see good players with lots of legal problems get opportunities. Front Offices will turn a blind eye for great players or just be naive and think they can handle a problem case.

He wasn't an awful player though, that's the point. He was incredibly productive for his entire career. In a league where the average career lasts 3 seasons, where wideouts grow on trees, you have to be really fucking good to stick around that long, if anything the amount of baggage he had makes the case even stronger, because you have to be even better for teams to be willing to put up with it.
Sanjuro
Banned
(02-17-2017, 05:40 PM)
Sanjuro's Avatar
TO's productivity was a cancer to all teams.
Bread
Whole Wheat
(02-17-2017, 05:40 PM)
Bread's Avatar
Breaking fake news: TO didn't make his teams better
Tom Penny
Member
(02-17-2017, 05:42 PM)
Tom Penny's Avatar
TO would be in the hall if it was voted on by people that actually played the game or coached it but instead it comes down to people who know little about the actual game.
yankeehater
Member
(02-17-2017, 05:42 PM)
yankeehater's Avatar

Originally Posted by Bread

Breaking fake news: TO didn't make his teams better

Did he make the Eagles better the year that they were forced to bench him? Did he make the 9ers better when he was calling their QB gay and forcing a trade?

Originally Posted by Tom Penny

TO would be in the hall if it was voted on by people that actually played the game or coached it but instead it comes down to people who know little about the actual game.

Oh tom penny you so silly, Bill Polian doesnt know anything about football?
Ninja Scooter
bow down to the
Kings in Raider hats
(02-17-2017, 05:43 PM)
Ninja Scooter's Avatar

Originally Posted by yankeehater

Bill Polian weighed in on TO:



Tony Dungy:



So it does sound like the voters were split on Dungy but he did get in.

What real evidence is there that he made his team's worse other than "feels"? His teams made the playoffs 8 times on 15 years. Calvin Johnson made the playoffs twice, but are we going to hear about how he didn't elevate his team when his HoF consideration comes up? Or will people make excuses for him because he kept his mouth shut and wasn't a primadonna? How about Larry Fitzgerald and his whopping 4 career playoff appearances?
Sanjuro
Banned
(02-17-2017, 05:47 PM)
Sanjuro's Avatar
Imagine if TO was gay? He would have destroyed the fabric of the NFL as we know it. We would all be LA Xtreme fans.
yankeehater
Member
(02-17-2017, 05:48 PM)
yankeehater's Avatar

Originally Posted by Ninja Scooter

What real evidence is there that he made his team's worse other than "feels"? His teams made the playoffs 8 times on 15 years. Calvin Johnson made the playoffs twice, but are we going to hear about how he didn't elevate his team when his HoF consideration comes up? Or will people make excuses for him because he kept his mouth shut and wasn't a primadonna? How about Larry Fitzgerald and his whopping 4 career playoff appearances?

TO played for the 9ers, a team that made a few playoffs before he even got there, then he forced a trade to the Eagles, who had made 3 straight NFC championships before he even got there. You cant seriously think he gets the credit for that stuff. How many SB's did he win as a player? Larry Fitzgerald also made a SB and that was with a team that was terrible before he got there.
Hindl
Member
(02-17-2017, 05:48 PM)
Hindl's Avatar
TO was a huge, selfish asshole who caused tons of problems in the Eagles 05 locker room and hurt the team.

He's also one of the best WRs of all time and should be in the HoF
Grover Cleveland
Member
(02-17-2017, 05:49 PM)
Grover Cleveland's Avatar
Matt MillerVerified account
‏@nfldraftscout

I'm told Tony Jefferson will hit the free agent market. Expectation from league sources is $7M+ per season.
Tom Penny
Member
(02-17-2017, 05:51 PM)
Tom Penny's Avatar

Originally Posted by yankeehater



Oh tom penny you so silly, Bill Polian doesnt know anything about football?

Why don't you go look at the HOF selection committee.... Lots of players coaches and front office personal !!!
Gigglepoo
Member
(02-17-2017, 05:53 PM)
Gigglepoo's Avatar
I wonder how HoF voters will deal with AP. He was a great running back but he was suspended for an entire season. If they're going to punish players for negatively impacted the team, he shouldn't be allowed to wear a gold jacket.

Also, he ruptured his kid's testicle. Seems a little worse than insinuating your QB gay.
Ninja Scooter
bow down to the
Kings in Raider hats
(02-17-2017, 05:53 PM)
Ninja Scooter's Avatar

Originally Posted by yankeehater

TO played for the 9ers, a team that made a few playoffs before he even got there, then he forced a trade to the Eagles, who had made 3 straight NFC championships before he even got there. You cant seriously think he gets the credit for that stuff. How many SB's did he win as a player? Larry Fitzgerald also made a SB and that was with a team that was terrible before he got there.

You are completely missing the point, I'm not giving him credit, I'm pointing out how putting it on a WR to make an entire team better is a stupid ass metric. Larry and Calvin were great receivers and even they can't singlehandedly push a team out of mediocrity. Again, even good receivers rarely stick around 15 years so if TO was so bad and destructive and such a team killer why would he have been able to? The proof is in the pudding. Despite the fact that he was an asshole and a diva, that he stuck around putting up the numbers he did tells me GMs didn't think he was all that bad.
yankeehater
Member
(02-17-2017, 05:54 PM)
yankeehater's Avatar

Originally Posted by Tom Penny

Why don't you go look at the HOF selection committee.... Lots of players coaches and front office personal !!!

People that do in fact know the game are saying he doesnt belong as evidenced by Bill Polian. It doesnt surprise me that a Pats fan would go with the attack the media angle though.
Tom Penny
Member
(02-17-2017, 05:55 PM)
Tom Penny's Avatar
Larry Fitzgerald was garbage tier. Only one SB berth and a few playoffs like TO.
Gigglepoo
Member
(02-17-2017, 05:55 PM)
Gigglepoo's Avatar

Originally Posted by yankeehater

TO played for the 9ers, a team that made a few playoffs before he even got there, then he forced a trade to the Eagles, who had made 3 straight NFC championships before he even got there. You cant seriously think he gets the credit for that stuff. How many SB's did he win as a player? Larry Fitzgerald also made a SB and that was with a team that was terrible before he got there.

How were the 49ers after TO left?
yankeehater
Member
(02-17-2017, 05:58 PM)
yankeehater's Avatar

Originally Posted by Ninja Scooter

You are completely missing the point, I'm not giving him credit, I'm pointing out how putting it on a WR to make an entire team better is a stupid ass metric. Larry and Calvin were great receivers and even they can't singlehandedly push a team out of mediocrity. Again, even good receivers rarely stick around 15 years so if TO was so bad and destructive and such a team killer why would he have been able to? The proof is in the pudding. Despite the fact that he was an asshole and a diva, that he stuck around putting up the numbers he did tells me GMs didn't think he was all that bad.

What it should tell you is that GM's are desperate and will overlook almost anything if they think a guy can play. AP stuff his childrens mouths with leaves and beat them until they were covered in bruises. He ruptured a childs scrotum, and still the Vikings welcomed him back. What desperate GMs are willing to do to win is no metric for basing if a guy is deserving of awards after their career is done or not.
bigosc2k
Member
(02-17-2017, 05:58 PM)
bigosc2k's Avatar

Originally Posted by Gigglepoo

How were the 49ers after TO left?

In cap hell and terrible till Harbs got there, never had a wr go over a 1000 yards receiving till Crabs in 2012.
cdyhybrid
(02-17-2017, 06:00 PM)
cdyhybrid's Avatar
When does Koren Robinson get into the HOF?
Tom Penny
Member
(02-17-2017, 06:01 PM)
Tom Penny's Avatar
Yankee doesn't want TO associated with the other great Eagles players that helped them get to numerous SB's.
Ninja Scooter
bow down to the
Kings in Raider hats
(02-17-2017, 06:02 PM)
Ninja Scooter's Avatar

Originally Posted by yankeehater

What it should tell you is that GM's are desperate and will overlook almost anything if they think a guy can play. AP stuff his childrens mouths with leaves and beat them until they were covered in bruises. He ruptured a childs scrotum, and still the Vikings welcomed him back. What desperate GMs are willing to do to win is no metric for basing if a guy is deserving of awards after their career is done or not.

Who cares? Are we going to go back and nitpick every player's candidacy based on whether they were only in the league because of "desperate GMs"? He was in the league. That happened. Those catches and yards happened. Do you not see how ridiculous the lengths you have to go to discredit what is, by nearly any metric, one of the 5-10 best and most productive careers at his position.
yankeehater
Member
(02-17-2017, 06:06 PM)
yankeehater's Avatar

Originally Posted by Ninja Scooter

Who cares? Are we going to go back and nitpick every player's candidacy based on whether they were only in the league because of "desperate GMs"? He was in the league. That happened. Those catches and yards happened. Do you not see how ridiculous the lengths you have to go to discredit what is, by nearly any metric, one of the 5-10 best and most productive careers at his position.

What ridiculous lengths? A group of people got together in a room and asked should this guy get in? No one came forward to say yes, but several came forward to say no. It doesnt seem complicated at all. You are saying that numbers are all that matters, and that is one way to look at it, but other people are saying no that how you act as a player should also matter. So far the second group is winning but that could obviously change going forward. I have no doubt that there are lots of people like you who think numbers should trump everything, just like there are lots of people who are in the 2nd camp. If they keep the same group of voters every year though I dont see how he ever gets in.
BigAT
Banned
(02-17-2017, 06:10 PM)
BigAT's Avatar

Originally Posted by yankeehater

What ridiculous lengths? A group of people got together in a room and asked should this guy get in? No one came forward to say yes, but several came forward to say no. It doesnt seem complicated at all. You are saying that numbers are all that matters, and that is one way to look at it, but other people are saying no that how you act as a player should also matter. So far the second group is winning but that could obviously change going forward. I have no doubt that there are lots of people like you who think numbers should trump everything, just like there are lots of people who are in the 2nd camp. If they keep the same group of voters every year though I dont see how he ever gets in.

So you're saying the Hall of Fame is a popularity contest.
bionic77
Please, don't ask ME about Michael Jordan!
(02-17-2017, 06:11 PM)
bionic77's Avatar

Originally Posted by Bread

Breaking fake news: TO didn't make his teams better

Breaking real news: Brady sold out his teammates to spend more time at the Trump white house.

God 2D looks so much better than 3D judging by those screens of the new Marvel v. Capcom. I was playing some of that last night and the 2D version is much more visually pleasing.
yankeehater
Member
(02-17-2017, 06:13 PM)
yankeehater's Avatar

Originally Posted by BigAT

So you're saying the Hall of Fame is a popularity contest.

Why do people keep saying that? A group of people get together and weigh the merits of a person. The look at their stats and how the acted on the field/in the locker room. If it was just a straight up popularity contest then tons of guys who didnt get in would. It took Kenny Stabler 27 years to get in, by all accounts he was a popular guy.
wienke
Member
(02-17-2017, 06:17 PM)
wienke's Avatar

Originally Posted by BigAT

So you're saying the Hall of Fame is a popularity contest.

I mean Joe Namath is in.

He's also the reason arguments over the HOF make me roll my eyes. It's not some prestigious institution that's held to an incredibly high standard. Fans know who the best players are and whether or not there's a bust in Canton doesn't mean shit - especially when there's a massive position bias in selections.
BigAT
Banned
(02-17-2017, 06:22 PM)
BigAT's Avatar

Originally Posted by yankeehater

Why do people keep saying that?

Perhaps because he's undeniably a Hall of Famer based on his career and the sole reason he's being kept out is because he is unpopular with the current group of voters?
Spinluck
Member
(02-17-2017, 06:23 PM)
Spinluck's Avatar
Yeah, Dungy can fuck off with those comments.

Why couldn't he be one of those cool Christans that like gays?
Sanjuro
Banned
(02-17-2017, 06:23 PM)
Sanjuro's Avatar
You all should be putting this effort into finding out why Bledsoe keeps getting snubbed.
Tom Penny
Member
(02-17-2017, 06:26 PM)
Tom Penny's Avatar

Originally Posted by BigAT

Perhaps because he's undeniably a Hall of Famer based on his career and the sole reason he's being kept out is because he is unpopular with the current group of voters?

His body of work isn't good enough when compared to the 4 years of production Terrell Davis had.
Spinluck
Member
(02-17-2017, 06:26 PM)
Spinluck's Avatar

Originally Posted by Sanjuro

You all should be putting this effort into finding out why Bledsoe keeps getting snubbed.

Isn't he the guy that lost his spot on the team to a 6th round pick?
Gobias
Member
(02-17-2017, 06:27 PM)
Gobias's Avatar
Maybe once Brady is imprisoned they will feel obligated to put Bledsoe in
yankeehater
Member
(02-17-2017, 06:28 PM)
yankeehater's Avatar

Originally Posted by BigAT

Perhaps because he's undeniably a Hall of Famer based on his career and the sole reason he's being kept out is because he is unpopular with the current group of voters?

Is he unpopular with the current voters, or is it that the current voters feel that his negative acts should be enough to deny him entry? Is there nothing a player could do to make them unelectable in your eyes?

Thread Tools