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PS4 Brazil Importation costs revealed. Taxes say Olá!! ($1161.53 USD in taxes!)
- Thread starter phosphor112
- Start date
I was thinking the same thing.
Chiaroscuro
Member
MS is making the Xbox One in Brazil (Manaus) so that could explain less taxes.
However it does not explain why Sony was able to launch the PS Vita bundle (wifi model + 4GB card + ModNation Racers) in Brazil at the price of R$ 1.600 last year and now the price of PS4, which should be less than the double of such kit, is announced at R$ 4.000 (no the exchange rate is not an excuse, it did not changed that much).
However it does not explain why Sony was able to launch the PS Vita bundle (wifi model + 4GB card + ModNation Racers) in Brazil at the price of R$ 1.600 last year and now the price of PS4, which should be less than the double of such kit, is announced at R$ 4.000 (no the exchange rate is not an excuse, it did not changed that much).
djplaeskool
Member
I'm guessing this is why Sony went out of their way to announce that they were in the process of setting up manufacturing in Brazil. Import taxes are killer.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
I HATE my country
Also, how the Xbone is costing less here? Fucking magic?
Also, how the Xbone is costing less here? Fucking magic?
Maybe the Vita was able to be classified as a different type of device with a different tax rate than a full fledged game console? Maybe Vita is getting a similar tax treatment as an iPhone or something.
ethomaz
Banned
First the Xbone is imported with box and everything else.... there are plan for the future to manufacture here like have plans to PS4 too.
If Xbone is not a console what is it?
PC tech have IPI at 20%... consoles have IPI at 50%... even so the difference is too big to compensate that 30% difference into IPI.
IPI for electronics like DVD-player is 15%.
They have a tax for that as well.
Green Biker Dude
Banned
it's not import taxes. cars in brazil, for example, cost 10x what their equivalent models cost in the us. it's still going to cost 1500 usd at best once it's manufactured there
Protectionism. Competition from foreign industries reduces the probability of the same industries from popping up in Brazil. Originally put into place to foster the development of local auto industry (from recall, not researched. May be incorrect). Of course, regional game consoles might not make a lot of sense. But then again, modern game consoles provide other services (telecom?) that might threaten fledgling companies in Brazil.
ethomaz
Banned
Show me other
ethomaz
Banned
How do you know they are importing the xbox fully produced? Has Microsoft put our a press sheet to that effect?
DomeSplitter
Banned
This is beyond insane. I suspect corporate greed is behind this on some level, given how Sony is already selling PS4 at loss(?) in the rest of the world but could cash in on Brazil relatively easily and pass it off as taxes - or it simply is a matter of manufacturing and import. Microsoft likely already has the infrastructure in place to sell their consoles at a competitive price. The way things are shaping up, if Sony doesn't figure out how to fix this - and soon, I might add - then they're about to lose significant territory in a economically booming country.
Then again, they're still shipping to over double the amount of countries Microsoft is. Whether that will translate into sales is questionable but it certainly wouldn't hurt them that much if they were to lose out in Brazil.
Then again, they're still shipping to over double the amount of countries Microsoft is. Whether that will translate into sales is questionable but it certainly wouldn't hurt them that much if they were to lose out in Brazil.
Why are they shit? Explain don't just rant.
God Dayumm
Banned
Maybe MS pitched the console as something other than 'videogames' and less taxes applied?
ethomaz
Banned
Every news about Xbone says it is imported... there is no work about production here.... and when a company start to manufacture something here they need to say that (via press release).
BRocknRolla
Member
Show me other
People have suggested others that sound plausible, like different tax classifications, or how about that Brazil might have a deal with MS in regard to lowering taxes and tariffs on MS products to help promote more technology and investment entering the country (For business and development reasons, not entertainment; that's just a side effect here). I don't pretend to know much about the Brazilian tax code, but given my experience with the US tax code, I'd venture to guess there are more ways to explain the discrepancy than, "Company A is committing a felony," or "Company B is lying."
While it is nice to see everything as diametric opposites, the law of international trade and taxes is not black and white.
The Last Wizard
Member
EightBitNate
Member
That's what you get for living in the wrong America
Captain Tuttle
Member
It's a tariff and it's to protect domestic manufacturers.
Edit: The One is cheaper? Something's off.
Poetic.Injustice
Member
Time to start a PS4 smuggling ring. :lol
Insane Metal
Member
Looks like I'm skipping yet another console generation. I was VERY excited about PS4, Sony seemed to be doing everything right... until they announce the price for Brazil. This is an insult. I could import, but honestly, this is so frustrating that I'm not willing to do that. And I'm not interested in the XBone.
The thing is: only last year, Sony began the production of the PS3 in Brazil. A LOT of money was spend building the prodution chains, distribution centers, training and all the shit. There is no interest in selling the PS4 right now, none. They will forge as many excel spreadsheets to justify the PS4 and say "Hey, while you can't buy the PS4, how about a brazilian made PS3?".
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Corrupt government, greedy sellers, you choose.
Are there any consumer electronics in Brazil with similar price inflation? Everything I've seen comparable comes in cheaper. Either the numbers are suspect, everyone else is eating massive losses on everything to sell in Brazil, or Sony's PS4 strategy is somehow fucked. The situation is weird.
We are talking about 2 different things here they may not be producing them in Brazil but they may be assembling them there. They could be importing them in a mostly complete state and doing final assembly at a small operation. This would reduce the taxable rate since it would be qualified as material imports instead of a completed product.
SpecialAgentZ
Member
Maybe they are doing this because they are trying to push PS3 here and don't want the PS4 to cannibalize the PS3, which they can sell with high profit margins (as everything that is sold here).
After all, didn't the PS3 only became profitable few years ago?
Sony said that the focus for Brazil in the next years is to push the PS3 here.
http://g1.globo.com/tecnologia/game...heiro-com-venda-de-playstation-4-r-4-mil.html
After all, didn't the PS3 only became profitable few years ago?
Sony said that the focus for Brazil in the next years is to push the PS3 here.
http://g1.globo.com/tecnologia/game...heiro-com-venda-de-playstation-4-r-4-mil.html
ethomaz
Banned
The only tax based in the type of product is IPI... everything else is fixed or based in what state you live.
IPI tax
PC (< R$3000): 15%
PC: 20%
Electronics (like TV, DVD-player): 15%
Videogames: 50%
Even if MS is using the PC below R$3000 the difference of R$2000 is so BIG enough to deny that fact alone.
ethomaz
Banned
There is no production in Brasil for any console.
They import the part and just mount here... that's what is called production of PS360 here.
The PS4 and Xbone are imported with box and everything else.
Like I said earlier, and you clearly misread; what if Microsoft is manufacturing parts in Brazil, but not the entire console.
ethomaz
Banned
Ok.
I think there are a big confusion with "Sony is manufacturing PS3 in Brazil / MS is manufacturing 360 in Brazil".
First... no component part is manufacture here... only the case, box and manuals are made here... everything else is imported (CPU, GPU, Motherboard, Memory, etc).
So the consoles are mounted here... not manufactured at all.
Now to make this clear:
PS360 = Mounted here (what they says manufactured)
PS4 / Xbone = Imported
NO, IT IS NOT.
And for those of you who can read Portguese, Kotaku has an analyst analysing those numbers and the final numbers seem very dodgy.
Big fat lie if you ask me. Time for Microsoft to release a breakdown of the taxes they are paying so we can compare.
You keep making assumptions where is your proof?
BRocknRolla
Member
It may well be that those taxes break down like that, and the product classification isn't the factor that can explain the discrepancy. As I said, I don't know.
What I am saying is that given how complex the tax code is in most countries, to say nothing of the complications of throwing international trade into the mix, there are probably a large number of factors at play that we aren't considering (Alternative agreements, subsiding, differential treatment of goods coming from one country vs. another (Though I don't know what the WTO status of something like that would be)) . So I would neither jump to MS breaking the law nor Sony lying to consumers as the reason for the difference. Too little information to be jumping to either conclusion.
TTOOLL
Member
Already posted in the first page. I can import it by myself for less than 2000 reais. MS is selling the xbone for 2200 reais and the math is debunked here (in portuguese):
http://forum.lolesporte.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=41470
ethomaz
Banned
Ohhhh god I live here... I read every piece of news about the consoles... and I know you can't mount a console here without the government allow that.
There is not Xbox One production/manufacture/mount here.
I can't read Portuguese can you translate for us?
It's much worse that that -- 63% of the total is made up of taxes, but to calculate the tax rate the standard way, you divide the total tax by the base (after-retailer-markup) price: 2524/1735 = 145.5%
For comparison, in a US state with 5% sales tax, that number is 20/399 = 5%.
And the Brazilian government is even increasing their tax in a sneaky way: note that the "distributor margin" is required by law to be 20% or more, with taxes calculated on top of that. So even if Sony refunds the entire distributor margin as a special "discount", that comes at the very end, after taxes have been charged on that bumped-up retail price.
Were it not for that law, the only elements of the pre-tax price would be 858 + 618, or 1476 reais. Apply the total tax of 145.5% to that, and you get 3624 reais instead of 3999. Brazil's "minimum distributor margin", which Sony isn't even taking, is being used to artificially inflate an already-heinous tax rate to something even more disgusting.
ethomaz
Banned
Illegal... just to point... that the first option I said but I can't believe MS will try to do that.
That's what all gray market importers do... so in the gray market you can already find PS4 pre order at less than R$1800.
TTOOLL
Member
Sorry man, I can't translate all posts, all of them are important in a way. Use Google to translate the page