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Rock Paper Shotgun's GOTY 2013 [John Walker responds to your deep concerns]

D

Derrick01

Banned
Magic Mushroom said:
Why are we giving importance to what you say? People have different opinions and they do a good job at motivating their choices. Perhaps you should read it before judging.
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Read what, their fc3 selection? I played that and know everything that's wrong with it and why it's a highly disappointing game. As for their choice this year it's not something I have any interest in at all (same with most of their list) and it's apparently incomplete which I have a problem with no matter what their justification for it is.

I do think it's pretty humorous that the only 2 AAA games they picked are on my 4 worst games of the year list.
 
D

Danthrax

Batteries the CRISIS!
Opiate said:
Do I sound sore? The usual complaint is that I'm an unemotional robot with no feelings.
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Your second paragraph came off as surprisingly salty. I'm really not trying to rile anyone up, but it seems I have, lol



In your sphere of friends, sure, maybe. I'm not sure how you would want to quantify "hardly anyone has heard of," though. Some of the biggest Oscar winners of all time include The Lord of the Rings trilogy and Titanic.

I think this is less a situation of nobody has heard of them and more a situation where you haven't heard of them.
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=(

It does seem that mainstream successes often win, but I was referring to the wider pool of nominees, which always include quite a few obscure — to me, I suppose, but I'm sure to many others as well — films.



I can. I'm telling you it's true.
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And I shall believe you.



Absolutely, I have no idea whether RPS are right or not. It's possible they are picking these just to be different, but then, if we begin to doubt motives like this, then everyone who picks any huge blockbuster game may just be doing it because they've sold out to the man, and then we can't accept any conclusion because everyone might be on the take.
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I guess I'm not arguing that their list is invalid. I'm just expressing some frustration with it because it doesn't mean much to me — I know absolutely nothing about half of these games, particularly the one that won. (I didn't want to just post "lol indies" and be on my way.)
 
E

Einbroch

Banned
Opiate said:
Having not played the game, I want to distinguish these completely reasonable criticisms and observations about this list from "why are there so many indie games" arguments.

That is, it is entirely possible that this list is unreasonable or arguable in lots of perfectly valid ways -- it's just that "I have not personally heard of this game, so they must be picking it to seem hipster" is not among them.
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It's their list, they can do what they want. But, for example, I know you play League of Legends, a game completely different then the game that launched four years ago. The Dominion mode could have been 2011 GOTY. Same with MMOs like World of Warcraft and the expansions. If an incomplete game like KRZ can be on the list, then these games could technically be allowed since the the only criteria for a game to included seems to be "we played this part this year".

But this is getting into what a site deems to be worthy. They could have whatever game they wanted on the list: it's their list. But what if the last episodes are horrible? What if they're amazing but now because it won GOTY in 2013 it can't win again? Hell, maybe it can!

Maybe I'm just confusing myself, but having an episode of an incomplete game win is confusing to me.
 
O

Opiate

Member
Danthrax said:
Your second paragraph came off as surprisingly salty. I'm really not trying to rile anyone up, but it seems I have, lol
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Well it certainly wasn't intended to be. If it seemed that way, I apologize.

=(

It does seem that mainstream successes often win, but I was referring to the wider pool of nominees, which always include quite a few obscure — to me, I suppose, but I'm sure to many others as well — films.
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Most films I would describe as legitimately obscure don't even get nominated. I'll quantify obscure as "not made by a billion dollar international corporation."

I guess I'm not arguing that their list is invalid. I'm just expressing some frustration with it because it doesn't mean much to me — I know absolutely nothing about half of these games, particularly the one that won. (I didn't want to just post "lol indies" and be on my way.)
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Absolutely, this creates a powerful incentive for awards shows like the MTV awards or Spike awards or the Oscars to pick movies and games and shows most people have heard of. Your desire is not uncommon. This isn't to say that they necessarily choose bad movies/games/music, mind you, but "the best movies/games/music that most people have heard of" would be a reasonable way to describe most pop-culture awards lists.
 
J

jimboton

Member
Worst thing about that list is that it doesn't contain neither La-Mulana nor Race the Sun.

Also Shadow Warrior is a lot more (dumb) fun that Saints Row IV could ever hope to be.
 
P

Perkel

Banned
RPGamer92 said:
I don't like it when outlets make their GOTY list be all indies just to try and be "different".
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I don't like when gaming sites do not include indie games in GOTY contenter list and what is more important gamers also don't do this.


Indie or not indie. Its a game. I don't see how Portal is different from Stanley Parable where Antichamber is miles better than Portal1and2 combined and yet no one mentioned it in goty list because probably wasn't created by Valve.

Budget doesn't make a game. Game is made by people and no amount of money spend will buy you GOTY in normal world. But for many players and sites that money part is more important than game itself.
 
C

Conciliator

Banned
This is probably closer to my list than any list I've seen from any major publications this year. There is some stuff in there that I don't think is that good though(like desktop dungeons).
 
P

Psycho_Mantis

Banned
epmode said:
Kentucky Route Zero



I'm surprised that they'd pick an unfinished episodic game but I can't complain about the choice.

The rest of RPS's picks for the year's best can be found here: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/12/24/merry-christmas-readers-the-complete-2013-calendar/

(Aside from the GOTY, this list is unranked)

1. Don’t Starve
2. Hexcells
3. Desktop Dungeons
4. Papers, Please
5. Card Hunter
6. Brothers: A Tale Of Two Sons
7. The Swapper
8. Assassin’s Creed IV: Black Flag
9. Amnesia: A Machine For Pigs
10. Dishonored DLC
11. Eurotruck Simulator
12. Rogue Legacy
13. XCOM: Enemy Within
14. Call Of Juarez: Gunslinger
15. Proteus
16. Monaco
17. Spelunky
18. Knock, Knock
19. Europa Universalis
20. The Stanley Parable
21. Saints Row IV
22. Teleglitch
23. Gone Home
24. Kentucky Route Zero (GOTY)

(Hexcells is pretty awesome too)
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Not a single console exclusive. Pathetic GOTY list. Feels like they didn't play some of the best games of the year or include them just because they were on consoles.
 
W

Weltall Zero

Member
Very solid selections there. Pleasantly surprised to see Desktop Dungeons, my number 5 pick for GOTY (but otherwise a pretty unknown game) there. This reminds me why RPS is becoming the only news site I care to read anymore aside from GAF.

Jazzkokehead said:
Well, RPS is a PC-centric website. I would argue that many of the best games currently on PC are smaller titles or indies as opposed to AAA games.
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Nothing arguable about it.

Opiate said:
It's not possible that their GOTY list is mostly (not all) indies because indies made better games this year?

I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, mind you. But jumping to your conclusion would be very much like me automatically assuming that anyone who picks GTAV or LotU was simply selling out to the man.
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Damn straight. Lots of people in this thread embarrassing themselves and making their ignorance obvious.
 
D

Danthrax

Batteries the CRISIS!
Einbroch said:
It's their list, they can do what they want. But, for example, I know you play League of Legends, a game completely different then the game that launched four years ago. The Dominion mode could have been 2011 GOTY. Same with MMOs like World of Warcraft and the expansions. If an incomplete game like KRZ can be on the list, then these games could technically be allowed since the the only criteria for a game to included seems to be "we played this part this year".

But this is getting into what a site deems to be worthy. They could have whatever game they wanted on the list: it's their list. But what if the last episodes are horrible? What if they're amazing but now because it won GOTY in 2013 it can't win again? Hell, maybe it can!

Maybe I'm just confusing myself, but having an episode of an incomplete game win is confusing to me.
Click to expand...

I think if a P&C adventure game can win when it's just two episodes into its five-episode arc, Star Citizen's hangar module should have been on this list. Damn, is that Avenger pretty. And the fish swim so nicely.


Opiate said:
Well it certainly wasn't intended to be. If it seemed that way, I apologize.
Click to expand...

It's OK.

Opiate said:
Absolutely, this creates a powerful incentive for awards shows like the MTV awards or Spike awards or the Oscars to pick movies and games and shows most people have heard of. Your desire is not uncommon. This isn't to say that they necessarily choose bad movies/games/music, mind you, but "the best movies/games/music that most people have heard of" would be a reasonable way to describe most pop-culture awards lists.
Click to expand...

I think you're correct. It's not wrong for non-mainstream work to be nominated, it just makes my eyes cross a little. Although now I feel bad for having not watched enough movies (or played enough indie games, apparently).
 
S

shinobi602

Member
Shouldn't it be "PC GOTY 2013" if they're PC exclusive? Seems difficult to compile a proper GOTY list without having your employees go through the tons of console exclusives as well.
 
D

Derrick01

Banned
shinobi602 said:
Shouldn't it be "PC GOTY 2013" if they're PC exclusive? Seems daft to just omit the tons of incredible console exclusives this year out of a GOTY list.
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Do we get to do the same to all the mainstream places that do this for console games and ignore PC games?
 
V

Visualante2

Member
Probably the best nod the Swapper will get. Under appreciated game.
kazebyaka said:
It wasn't even the best point and click adventure this year.
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What is it then?

I'm very much in a difficult spot with Kentucky Route Zero... I love it as much as other titles in my top three. But it wouldn't feel right if they can't deliver a satisfying conclusion.
Rayge said:
A Machine for Pigs got on that list before Outlast did?
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I guess it all depends on what you expected from a sequel to Amnesia: The Dark Descent?
 
D

Dascu

Member
I can't understand why people come in GOTY selection threads only to complain how the selection doesn't match their own, or even worse, imply that some games should've won purely because they're more cinematic/higher budgeted. What is this nonsense? There is no objective measure of quality and no site has any obligation to pick a GOTY winner that is indisputable.
 
E

Einbroch

Banned
Derrick01 said:
Do we get to do the same to all the mainstream places that do this for console games and ignore PC games?
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But they don't. You could say they focus on console games, but they aren't exclusively console like RPS is exclusively PC.

Rogue Legacy is likely going to be on a lot of lists and that's PC. Gunpoint as well.
 
M

marrec

Banned
I'm really glad to see that they included Card Hunter on their list. More people need to check it out so that we can all see how to make a good F2P game.
 
O

Opiate

Member
I think it's particularly telling that people are only expressing concern with the omission of console games.

No one has griped about the complete omission of handheld titles.
No one has griped about the complete omission of social/browser titles.
No one has griped about the complete omission of iOS/Android titles.

By contrast, multiple people have commented on the omission of console-centric titles. Presumably we can all agree that all of these platforms had many great games on them; I suspect this represents a bias towards "AAA" or "blockbuster" console titles as the default GotY choice.
 
D

Derrick01

Banned
Einbroch said:
But they don't. You could say they focus on console games, but they aren't exclusively console like RPS is exclusively PC.

Rogue Legacy is likely going to be on a lot of lists and that's PC. Gunpoint as well.
Click to expand...

Likely? Or did it actually happen yet? I'd wait and see before saying that.
 
P

Psycho_Mantis

Banned
Opiate said:
I think it's particularly telling that people are only expressing concern with the omission of console games.

No one has griped about the complete omission of handheld titles.
No one has griped about the complete omission of social/browser titles.
No one has griped about the complete omission of iOS/Android titles.

Presumably we can all agree that all of these outlets had many great games on them; I suspect this is a bias towards "AAA" or "blockbuster" console titles as the default GotY choice.
Click to expand...

Thats what I meant when I said consoles. Some of the best games of the year are on 3DS. The other two should be obvious considering this is a hardcore gaming forum.

No one plays every game. That is especially true of review outlets.
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Yes but they play a lot of them and they play it regardless of platform unlike this site.
 
S

shinobi602

Member
Opiate said:
I think it's particularly telling that people are only expressing concern with the omission of console games.

No one has griped about the complete omission of handheld titles.
No one has griped about the complete omission of social/browser titles.
No one has griped about the complete omission of iOS/Android titles.

By contrast, multiple people have commented on the omission of console-centric titles. Presumably we can all agree that all of these platforms had many great games on them; I suspect this represents a bias towards "AAA" or "blockbuster" console titles as the default GotY choice.
Click to expand...
Well, handhelds can be 'consoles', I did mean consoles and handhelds. And you're right, mobile/social games should be included too.
 
T

Turin Turambar

Member
I'm a exclusive pc gamer guy, and I would have put Bioshock Infinite and Metro Last Light in the top games of the year.

Sometimes, AAA companies can make decent products.

At least Tomb Raider isn't in the list. Overrated.
 
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