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Should we boycott Shadow Complex?
- Thread starter Coins
- Start date
Big-E said:
You're disconnected from reality, if you don't believe there are millions of people out there, making you games, cooking your lunch, and being your friends who probably feel exactly the same way as Card and his cronies.
It's simply a matter of Card publishing his fucked up opinions, and those who sit next to you in Starbucks keeping quiet.
Do what you want, it's your money. I don't see anything wrong with boycotting a product for a legitimate issue like such when gamers do it for retarded complaints all the time without much of a thought.
But I will say this: the singlemost thing I dislike about boycotting as a practice in general is that it's a mob-like solution to the underlying issues, threatening a man's means of living to get what you want. You might as well hold a knife up to his throat and tell him "Shut up and do what we tell you to do if you know what's good for you". Yeah, boycotting has been used since forever by people and by nations, but the principle of it will never sit well with me.
But I will say this: the singlemost thing I dislike about boycotting as a practice in general is that it's a mob-like solution to the underlying issues, threatening a man's means of living to get what you want. You might as well hold a knife up to his throat and tell him "Shut up and do what we tell you to do if you know what's good for you". Yeah, boycotting has been used since forever by people and by nations, but the principle of it will never sit well with me.
My god, I can't believe you're being serious. Are you really that blind? Good work is good work. Card does good work. Chair was making a game they hoped would be good. They looked for somebody who does good work to help with their future good game. It's that simple. I really doubt they give a shit what his opinion of gay people is. This is business. Not a fucking tea party. You don't just invite your friends over, you take the best.Big-E said:
Edit: also, almost every person you will ever meet will be for something you are against. Deal with it, it's called reality.
kodt said:
I don't think it's possible to expect people to have a profound knowledge about all the companies they do business with. I believe it's just too much information to process and retain. It is also very complex and it might change over time. However, if you already have the information from a credible source; I don't think it is ok to ignore it.
NinjaFusion said:i would just like to add this.... i have just been reading about his campaign.... it was an organised and systematic lobby to to away the rights of people.
after this i will not send these game out to create potentially a new fan that he could profit from
Mooreberg said:
:lol :lol :lol
Doing something this dumb is one thing but publicly admitting it on a message board wraps it up in a delicious extra layer of fail.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
Felix Lighter
Member
PhoenixDark said:
Yeah, this is pretty much how I feel.
Google said:
And you are one of the countless idiots in this thread that don't understand the fundamental difference. Those assholes at Starbucks are probably not privately funding multi million dollar campaigns to strip rights from people but please, continue to bring this up because I like all the douchebags being exposed this way.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Google said:
Card does more than publish his opinions.
gregor7777
Banned
This forum has hit a new all time low. I hate using such a clichéd word, but this really is sad.
Danne-Danger
Member
:lolBKXB said:
Maybe even Card can look the other way when it comes to saving mankind. >.>
Father_Brain
Banned
Just to be fair to the folks at Chair: While it's a fairly reasonable assumption that the founders share Card's right-wing social views (after all, they co-created the Empire IP), I haven't found any hard evidence that this is the case. The Prop 8 donor databases don't list anything from Ryan Holmes or the Mustard brothers, nor can I find any public statements from them on the issue.
EmCeeGramr
Member
yeah doodz, this thread is so horrible and the worst gaf thread ever, why actually discuss things when we can just circle jerk over the latest press releases or videos
RedAssedApe
Banned
GAF should boycott this thread. But like with Shadow Complex I think its too little too late. Was there one of these threads when Advent Rising was released? Maybe that's what it failed? :lol
Big-E said:
I understand where this money might be going. And I respect your opinion and stance. If you look at it that way, and as others have said previously, how many anti-semite, anti-homophobe, etc... should we boycott then? I'm sure there is one in almost every company.
I think it's unfair that you are calling me an idiot over the way I see things. If you find (and others as well) that you don't wish to "support" him in even the slightest or you feel uncomfortable knowing where this money might be going, then don't. Although, to the level this thread has been taken is a bit extreme.
Mercury Fred
Banned
Yeah, because not buying something is the same as book burning :lolsn00zer said:
Card is free to be a homophobic douche that dedicates his life to taking rights away from other human beings and people are free to not buy his shit. It's a free speech win-win.
ShinobiFist
Banned
I don't believe the team behind Shadow Complex should be punish over what one person beliefs are. Is like saying every German was a NAZI during WWII under Hitler. My example may be a little extreme, but you get the point. I will buy Shadow Complex because the "Team" in EPIC did a hell of a job on Shadow Complex. But, I will not support any of his Books. BTW, did EPIC know anything about his political views?
sn00zer said:
Don't blame us all. As a fierce liberal and atheist/agnostic, this place embarrasses me constantly. "Bigotry and bullying and intolerance is awful, except when we do it, then it's righteous!"
edit: 'Tho, yeah, as pointed out I think the "book burning" analogy is over the top as well.
Zyzyxxz said:
Hey, that makes sense. Fight anti-gay by voting for gay rights, not by boycotting video games (given it doesn't advocate anti-gay messages).
Yes, I get the point that Card uses his money for anti-gay efforts, but as the gaygamer article said, donate money to gay charities. Of course, go ahead and boycott if it really bothers you.
Oh, this thread is comedy gold. :lol
I have to wonder how many of these 'suddenly concerned' activists, who have chosen to exercise their progressive, free-thinking ideals by not supporting an ambiguously (at best) connected Card project, will still be first in line to purchase the new Final Fantasy game, despite Square's well documented history of racism?
That would be quite an interesting poll indeed!
I have to wonder how many of these 'suddenly concerned' activists, who have chosen to exercise their progressive, free-thinking ideals by not supporting an ambiguously (at best) connected Card project, will still be first in line to purchase the new Final Fantasy game, despite Square's well documented history of racism?
That would be quite an interesting poll indeed!
Smash88 said:
Again you are not getting it. No one gives a flying fuck whether OSC is a homophobe or an anti-semite or hates black people. No one cares. What people care about is that this man is on the forefront of an anti gay movement in the united states and funds campaigns with his own money to ensure that gay rights never see the light of day or get squashed before surfacing. Do you understand the difference? I think it's pretty clear but it seems to be something completely foreign to others.
hampig said:
That's wonderful but guess what? It doesn't stop him from being a gigantic hateful douche who should be immune to a boycott. I have been through a lot of threads on GAF but I think this one is making me the most angry and I ain't even homosexual.
MightyHedgehog
Member
So, respect to everyone? Or are not giving respect to those that disagree with boycotting? What the hell do you mean, exactly?freddy said:
Is this a rhetorical question? This has got to be one of the strangest posts in the gaming discussion forum that I've seen in a while, which is saying something. Uh...no, we should not boycott the game. Yeah, it sucks the dude is a homophobe, but who gives a shit? Epic, a great developer, and is the one who ends up losing in the end if you do.
I'm not saying homophobia is fine, I'm just saying, are you trying to be the guy's BFF or just trying to enjoy his material? Because it's possible to like a person's work without liking the actual person.
I like to call it "Mark Millar Syndrome".
I'm not saying homophobia is fine, I'm just saying, are you trying to be the guy's BFF or just trying to enjoy his material? Because it's possible to like a person's work without liking the actual person.
I like to call it "Mark Millar Syndrome".
sevenchaos
Banned
Would you compare this particular reaction to say Resident Evil 5?GreekWolf said:
/clapAmir0x said:
Do you realize how many amazing works of art, literature and cinema have been made that you've loved, that have probably been written by homophobes, racists and pedophiles?
If you're going to stop playing games because they are associated with someone who is this, you better stop doing a lot of things.
The slippery slope goes far.
For example. You should never, ever read anything by Lovecraft. And you probably should ditch the classic works by Aldous Huxley.
If the only issue is you have trouble contributing -any- money to -any- homophone currently alive, then the problem is you've probably done it HUNDREDS of times and you just didn't know it. But these games are a collection of their parts. No one person represents the product in this case. Nobody anywhere is endorsing homophobia through this product.
In essence, it comes to this:
we have to accept in our gray world, where things often don't have perfect conclusions or morally "right" endings, that people who are racist and homophobic and who like to molest kids... they sometimes make great things.
They sometimes make amazing, wonderful things.
And that extends to games as well. You should do what you feel is right as it's your money, but you should also acknowledge that you are not going to hurt Orson Scott Card or send him any message he will understand. He is already highly successful, and has made good works of art. He is also a homophobe.
Thus is the nature of our dark world.
If you're going to stop playing games because they are associated with someone who is this, you better stop doing a lot of things.
The slippery slope goes far.
For example. You should never, ever read anything by Lovecraft. And you probably should ditch the classic works by Aldous Huxley.
If the only issue is you have trouble contributing -any- money to -any- homophone currently alive, then the problem is you've probably done it HUNDREDS of times and you just didn't know it. But these games are a collection of their parts. No one person represents the product in this case. Nobody anywhere is endorsing homophobia through this product.
In essence, it comes to this:
we have to accept in our gray world, where things often don't have perfect conclusions or morally "right" endings, that people who are racist and homophobic and who like to molest kids... they sometimes make great things.
They sometimes make amazing, wonderful things.
And that extends to games as well. You should do what you feel is right as it's your money, but you should also acknowledge that you are not going to hurt Orson Scott Card or send him any message he will understand. He is already highly successful, and has made good works of art. He is also a homophobe.
Thus is the nature of our dark world.
Souldriver
Member
Not reading this whole thread, sorry.
But I wonder what the fuzz is about. This thread was made for the people who would rather not buy a game if it supports someone who has a very controversial stance on homosexuality and (financially) supports campaigns to revoke/deny homosexuals rights, but did not know that such a person was involved in the making of this game. It's not meant for anyone else, so people who are saying this thread is retarded sound like they're being attacked for their purchase, or that they are being told what to and what not to buy. But this is not the case. At least that's how I read it.
One can buy whatever they want despite/because/irregardless of the background of set product, just as one can not buy a product for the same reasons. This thread was just informing the people of the background of this game, so they can make a decision.
The only thing that is working against this thread, is that it is posted on a gaming forum, where games are king, and all the rest is irrelevant. And I don't mean that in a negative way. But I think that is the reason why there's such a thread backfire. Sometimes it's hard enough to discuss games in a normal manner on this forum, let alone when politics get involved.
But I wonder what the fuzz is about. This thread was made for the people who would rather not buy a game if it supports someone who has a very controversial stance on homosexuality and (financially) supports campaigns to revoke/deny homosexuals rights, but did not know that such a person was involved in the making of this game. It's not meant for anyone else, so people who are saying this thread is retarded sound like they're being attacked for their purchase, or that they are being told what to and what not to buy. But this is not the case. At least that's how I read it.
One can buy whatever they want despite/because/irregardless of the background of set product, just as one can not buy a product for the same reasons. This thread was just informing the people of the background of this game, so they can make a decision.
The only thing that is working against this thread, is that it is posted on a gaming forum, where games are king, and all the rest is irrelevant. And I don't mean that in a negative way. But I think that is the reason why there's such a thread backfire. Sometimes it's hard enough to discuss games in a normal manner on this forum, let alone when politics get involved.
TheChillyAcademic
Member
woodypop said:
Then what do we do?
More specifically, what can we do?
Nothing, there isn't anything we can do but stick to our beliefs and our conscious and know what is right and what is wrong.
Mercury Fred
Banned
As has been pointed out many, many times already in this thread, there is a big difference between holding a particular view and using one's power, money and influence to push an agenda that strips rights from other people.Amir0x said: