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The Dark Knight Rises (Batman 3) - No Riddler
- Thread starter V_Ben
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SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Dead said:
I know. I just don't want to set off a bomb in this thread that will derail it so hard that we have to cut to the water-main exposition characters.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
jett said:
I think we all love Nolan. We're just not ready to call him one of the greatest filmmakers of all time just yet - a select group amongst which Spielberg has rightly earned his place.
Oh wait, why are you bringing Cameron into this? :lol
brandonh83
Banned
Scullibundo said:
Inception swept most of its characters under the rug. I didn't care about any of them and the fact that a bunch of uninteresting characters could have been trapped in the limbo state if they "died" while in a dream state contributed to the stale action sequences. The only character I felt that was even remotely fleshed out at all was Dom. Minority Report, when there is action, is far more entertaining than any action bits in Inception, partially because of what I mentioned above.
Just what I thought about it. Clearly everyone had different experiences with the film. I totally expected to but was gravely disappointed. It was something I watched and just shrugged off. For the record I greatly enjoyed the first hour or so, when it was actually being very thoughtful and interesting. Loved the stuff where Ariadne was exploring Dom's subconsciousness, but all that was literally shot to shit in the second half.
If his latest movies were as good as Prestige and Memento, id be singing a different tune.jett said:
But his latest movies have no lasting appeal to me and severely degrade in quality upon rewatches and discussion. Theres something fundamentally missing from them in comparison to The Prestige, which is one of the best movies of the last decade imo.
Batman Begins is somewhere in between. A good Batman movie with good rewatch value, but obviously nowhere near Prestige/Memento.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
jett said:
I think what you see as negativity is pretty much straight up stirring (not to be confused with trolling!). Its fun watching the GAF hoards convulse in unison whilst their false cinematic idol is taken to town.
Let it be known that any year that Nolan releases a film will be a year that it sits among the top of my most anticipated.
brandonh83
Banned
I don't mean to sound like I'm ragging on Nolan. Hardly. I may not like Inception but it has handsome production values. Memento is really good, as is The Prestige. Batman Begins is my 2nd favorite comic book film under Spider-man 2 so that has to count for something. The Dark Knight is fantastic but marred by a few problems.
He is a great director. I just don't think he's quite worth all the praise just yet.
He is a great director. I just don't think he's quite worth all the praise just yet.
rollingstart
Banned
jett said:
Same here!
I, a hapless nobody, full endorse Cameron directing a Dark Knight Returns film where Michael Ironside (or Stephen Lang) goes around shooting mutants with rubber bullets. Cameron does kick-ass action.
HK-47 said:
Hush is awesome
because that arc was an excuse for Jim Lee to draw a bunch of Batman characters.
Anton Sugar
Member
Scullibundo said:
Empire is overrated. Munich is great, but Spielberg has squeezed out some crappers completely deft of ANY humanity, save for cliched relationships. Nolan's "worst" is Insomnia.
Is it confirmed that this is the actual title?
Real talk: Chris Nolan is a great director and worthy of lots of praise, and is the most likely of his generation outside of PTA to have a lasting legacy. But for as well as he handles most of the bigger thematic stuff, he routinely flubs small things (such as humor *groan*), he can't shoot action for shit, and his fans are annoying as fuck.
Also, like Cameron, writing is not where his talent lies.
Also, like Cameron, writing is not where his talent lies.
Anton Sugar
Member
Dead said:
I like you.
But I loved Inception.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
He certainly has areas to improve in - namely creating fleshed out, distinct characters and improving on his action sequences which always seem to let him down. The spinning hallway was not an action sequence. It was a spinning hallway where characters fell into each other. Very cool, but that is not an action sequence imo.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
his last few scripts have needed another pass too, i think. the dialogue seems stilted quite a bit.
Anton Sugar
Member
Solo said:
I really hope Batman 3 doesn't have any stupid fucking cop banter. Is Goyer on board for this one? I have the feeling he's responsible for the shitty dialogue/writing in the Batman movies, as it's not really prominent in his others.
Goyer came up with the story at least in part.Mr. Snrub said:
As for the scripts, Nolan always does the last pass on all of his scripts, so he has final say on whatever is included. Goyer didn't write the actual screenplay of TDK though, that was Jonathan + Chris Nolan.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Mr. Snrub said:
Empire is definitely not overrated. Does take a rewatch though I've found.
When you've made as many movies as Spielberg has, yes there are bound to be a few the likes of 1941, Amistad and The Terminal. But Spielberg's great films (and there are a lot) are still on a level that Nolan hasn't touched yet.
To me he's missing the human factor.
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
I'm not gonna try to tell anybody Nolan is objectively better than Spielberg. He fucking made Raiders, an untouchable cornerstone of Adventure films. The dude earned the keys for the rest of his life for that. On top of that, he made stuff like Jaws, Jurassic Park, landmark films that can't be topped because they were simply there first. But in terms of overall track record and flaws, it's much easier for me to say Nolan is more consistent and tolerable. The way I see it, Nolan has been building on top of every film, improving with each one in little and big ways. At worst with a Nolan film (depending on how much haterade you wanna gulp down), you're gonna get "horribly" shot action scenes, one dimensional supporting characters, maybe a relatively underwhelming third act, and hammy on the nose dialogue. spielberg? He's hit or miss as can be in the wake of this Crystal Skull mess. His poorer films have 3rd acts that don't just underwhelm, but suck out life from the previous two acts by offering up sappy, unearned redemptive arcs for the most unlikable characters, and even more on the nose dialogue. Then there's occasional major logic holes that Spielberg glosses over (like most of the stuff going on with the aliens and their arrival in WotW) that I just don't see happening in a Nolan film.
At the end of the day, it's really nitpicking, like a lot of GAF discussions. Spielberg can lay claim to being the better no question because his style was among the first and distinct - it's hard to avoid imitating it. His highs, objectively, have way more influence on cinema at large by default both because of when they were made and the distinct quality. But when he gets low, he reaches points that I just don't think Nolan would ever allow himself to get to (partially because Nolan has way more of a hand in scripting and the universe of his films on the whole, and also because Nolan hasn't quite pidgeonholed himself into any sort of tacky story fumbles like said sappy, uneared redemptive arcs either).
When comparing these flaws to other filmmakers, it's really just fine details we're plucking on. We're still talking about a legend and a legend in the making when it comes down to it. I just don't see why people need to regularly put such that harsh light on either of these guys. We should be greatly thankful either of them are around.
At the end of the day, it's really nitpicking, like a lot of GAF discussions. Spielberg can lay claim to being the better no question because his style was among the first and distinct - it's hard to avoid imitating it. His highs, objectively, have way more influence on cinema at large by default both because of when they were made and the distinct quality. But when he gets low, he reaches points that I just don't think Nolan would ever allow himself to get to (partially because Nolan has way more of a hand in scripting and the universe of his films on the whole, and also because Nolan hasn't quite pidgeonholed himself into any sort of tacky story fumbles like said sappy, uneared redemptive arcs either).
When comparing these flaws to other filmmakers, it's really just fine details we're plucking on. We're still talking about a legend and a legend in the making when it comes down to it. I just don't see why people need to regularly put such that harsh light on either of these guys. We should be greatly thankful either of them are around.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
raiders of the lost ark?
okay, listen, spielberg is just awesome. can we agree?
here's a picture of richard dreyfuss.
okay, listen, spielberg is just awesome. can we agree?
here's a picture of richard dreyfuss.
Anton Sugar
Member
Scullibundo said:
Guess I should rewatch it, but after hearing about how great it was, it was thoroughly uninvolving to me once they reach the camp and things settle down. Pretty disappointing.
I do agree that Nolan's films aren't as accessible emotionally as a lot of Spielberg's, but I don't find them completely devoid of emotion.
beelzebozo said:raiders of the lost ark?
okay, listen, spielberg is just awesome. can we agree?
here's a picture of richard dreyfuss.
Japanese submarine slammed two torpedoes into our side, Chief. We was comin' back from the island of Tinian to Leyte... just delivered the bomb. The Hiroshima bomb. Eleven hundred men went into the water. Vessel went down in 12 minutes. Didn't see the first shark for about a half an hour. Tiger. 13-footer. You know how you know that when you're in the water, Chief? You tell by looking from the dorsal to the tail. What we didn't know, was our bomb mission had been so secret, no distress signal had been sent. They didn't even list us overdue for a week. Very first light, Chief, sharks come cruisin', so we formed ourselves into tight groups. You know, it was kinda like old squares in the battle like you see in the calendar named "The Battle of Waterloo" and the idea was: shark comes to the nearest man, that man he starts poundin' and hollerin' and screamin' and sometimes the shark go away... but sometimes he wouldn't go away. Sometimes that shark he looks right into ya. Right into your eyes. And, you know, the thing about a shark... he's got lifeless eyes. Black eyes. Like a doll's eyes. When he comes at ya, doesn't seem to be living... until he bites ya, and those black eyes roll over white and then... ah then you hear that terrible high-pitched screamin'. The ocean turns red, and despite all the poundin' and the hollerin', they all come in and they... rip you to pieces. You know by the end of that first dawn, lost a hundred men. I don't know how many sharks, maybe a thousand. I know how many men, they averaged six an hour. On Thursday morning, Chief, I bumped into a friend of mine, Herbie Robinson from Cleveland. Baseball player. Boatswain's mate. I thought he was asleep. I reached over to wake him up. Bobbed up, down in the water just like a kinda top. Upended. Well, he'd been bitten in half below the waist. Noon, the fifth day, Mr. Hooper, a Lockheed Ventura saw us. He swung in low and he saw us... he was a young pilot, a lot younger than Mr. Hooper. Anyway, he saw us and he come in low and three hours later a big fat PBY comes down and starts to pick us up. You know that was the time I was most frightened... waitin' for my turn. I'll never put on a lifejacket again. So, eleven hundred men went in the water; 316 men come out and the sharks took the rest, June the 29th, 1945. Anyway, we delivered the bomb.
Anton Sugar
Member
Solo said:
True. The same can be said for his editing.
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
I don't get this much either. I see quite a bit of emotion in almost any Nolan character. I just don't think those emotions are universal to everyone, which isn't exactly Nolan's problem.Mr. Snrub said:
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
SpeedingUptoStop said:
FUBAR! Fuck Nolan!
Lionel Mandrake
Member
I don't know why this turned into a Spielberg-appreciation thread, but...
I tend to think the whole "cold, soulless" charge leveled at Nolan is partly due to the subdued color tones that basically all of his films after Memento have had. I don't remember Memento being criticized for being too emotionally distant or whatnot, but all of his films since then have been criticized for it. The again, Memento was a ways back, so it may have been criticized similarly.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Solo said:
Japanese submarine slammed two torpedoes into our side, Chief. We was comin' back from the island of Tinian to Leyte... just delivered the bomb. The Hiroshima bomb. Eleven hundred men went into the water. Vessel went down in 12 minutes. Didn't see the first shark for about a half an hour. Tiger. 13-footer. You know how you know that when you're in the water, Chief? You tell by looking from the dorsal to the tail. What we didn't know, was our bomb mission had been so secret, no distress signal had been sent. They didn't even list us overdue for a week. Very first light, Chief, sharks come cruisin', so we formed ourselves into tight groups. You know, it was kinda like old squares in the battle like you see in the calendar named "The Battle of Waterloo" and the idea was: shark comes to the nearest man, that man he starts poundin' and hollerin' and screamin' and sometimes the shark go away... but sometimes he wouldn't go away. Sometimes that shark he looks right into ya. Right into your eyes. And, you know, the thing about a shark... he's got lifeless eyes. Black eyes. Like a doll's eyes. When he comes at ya, doesn't seem to be living... until he bites ya, and those black eyes roll over white and then... ah then you hear that terrible high-pitched screamin'. The ocean turns red, and despite all the poundin' and the hollerin', they all come in and they... rip you to pieces. You know by the end of that first dawn, lost a hundred men. I don't know how many sharks, maybe a thousand. I know how many men, they averaged six an hour. On Thursday morning, Chief, I bumped into a friend of mine, Herbie Robinson from Cleveland. Baseball player. Boatswain's mate. I thought he was asleep. I reached over to wake him up. Bobbed up, down in the water just like a kinda top. Upended. Well, he'd been bitten in half below the waist. Noon, the fifth day, Mr. Hooper, a Lockheed Ventura saw us. He swung in low and he saw us... he was a young pilot, a lot younger than Mr. Hooper. Anyway, he saw us and he come in low and three hours later a big fat PBY comes down and starts to pick us up. You know that was the time I was most frightened... waitin' for my turn. I'll never put on a lifejacket again. So, eleven hundred men went in the water; 316 men come out and the sharks took the rest, June the 29th, 1945. Anyway, we delivered the bomb.
Chills every time I watch that scene.
Empire still reigns higher for me though - on top with Munich and Schindler.
These are the types of magic movie moments that I just can't see Nolan pulling off:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19UROAIbtlw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS6JyNQepAQ&feature=related
I just hope we get more Nickelback TV Spots
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYh7mrJxbXw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYh7mrJxbXw&feature=related
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
DMczaf said:
:lol
brandonh83
Banned
effzee said:
well if the title hadn't sucked, it wouldn't have degenerated down to Nolan being humiliated in comparison to Spielberg. his fault.
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