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South Park's out. Is the fish minigame handled well? Should it be in the game?

A

Azure Dream

Member
ZeoVGM said:
boogie2988_middle_by_digi_matrix-db3h3ud.gif
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There should be a version of this gif that just says "Quack quack quack, quack quack, quack, quack!"

AtlAntA said:
Not sure if you meant this sarcastic. But boogie really is a great guy. Some of his videos have some great advice in it.
Click to expand...

I thought that too, but Boogie started preaching Centrism when things started picking up (where "the middle" is between people existing and people being murdered for being the wrong race or religion), made a bullshit "Should I take the Red Pill?" video to appeal to GGers, including stating he "learned some things" from it previously, and there was a weird exchange with Anita that ultimately resulted in Boogie repeatedly talking about feeling confused and somewhat victimized (but in a "please let's just move on" way).

Even if Boogie is just trying to straddle the fence, which I don't believe he is anymore, you can't fence sit on this. One "side" is Literal Nazis, and the other is People Who Want To Exist. There's no "swell" middle.


Edit: Oh, hey, just saw this in The Last Night IGN thread:
altrightfuckwittjsen.png


"Gosh, makes you think!"
 
S

Sailor Xan

Neo Member
I spent a long time in the Pokemon fandom hearing that "People thought Jynx was meant to be blackface when it's actually a reference to the ganguro trend, aren't people silly?"

And it turns out, if you do even a bit of basic research, that the timing on that claim doesn't work out. Ganguro wasn't widely known until after the relevant games were completed, and meanwhile blackface was a perfectly acceptable thing in Japanese media at the time - Japan having consumed older American media made when it was considered acceptable by the mainstream, but lacking the cultural context to understand why it's horrible. It was a relatively innocent mistake as these things go, and most of the blame should really lie with the localization team for not catching it.

But the dominant narrative from fans continues to be that this was a silly thing blown out of all proportion, that it wasn't blackface because of reasons, even when those justifications don't hold up to the slightest bit of scrutiny.

What I learned from the Pokemon fandom (which is, on the whole, one of the more accepting and progressive video game fandoms out there) was that the instinct fans have to defend that thing they like as Not Racist will drown out even the plainest evidence to the contrary. "Racism is bad, and I like Thing. And since I am not bad, Thing cannot be racist."

It's a pattern you start to see everywhere. Fandom can be great and all, but sadly it appears it's all too easy to let a need to deflect criticism of something you love override basic human empathy.
 
J

JBourne

maybe tomorrow it rains
Freeman76 said:
Millenials: The Thread
Click to expand...
You make a couple shitposts, claim you're leaving when people start calling you out, but you just can't stay away.
Edit: you also refused to answer someone's question because they cursed, then accused them of hurling abuse and calling you a racist. You're one sensitive motherfucker.
 
N

NHarmonic.

Member
AtlAntA said:
Not sure if you meant this sarcastic. But boogie really is a great guy. Some of his videos have some great advice in it.
Click to expand...

He's closer and willing to find middle ground with Nazis than with people who fat shame. That tells a lot.

He's a fucking hypocrite.
 
M

Mendrox

Member
CloudWolf said:
Aside from the obvious problems with the presentation of Kanye's mom... a Flappy Bird clone in 2017? Seriously?
Click to expand...

It's like people never saw the Kanye West game announcement.

What they are making fun of?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Mf4NsyOUVg

This.

Why a flappy bird clone? Because when Flappy Bird released there released a ton of Kanye West Flappy Bird clones with his face. The trailer for his game also looks a little bit like this and the concept too.
 
M

MazeHaze

Banned
The fish should totally be a different color, it does look like blackface. They should have made her green like Kanye.


But I mean, we are talking about a show That has been full of stereotypes and hot takes.

The Shitty Chicken Chinese guy is super racist, and they've been using him for more than a decade. Remember the episode where he has to build a great wall to keep out Mongolians, and he dumps sweet and sour sauce on them?
 
M

Murkas

Member
Expected this thread to be a steaming pile of shit coming but didn't expect it to reach waist level.

"Why are gamers still seen as uncool???"


You ready for the blackface/racist Halloween costumes 2k17 thread?
 
I

Intel_89

Member
MazeHaze said:
The fish should totally be a different color, it does look like blackface. They should have made her green like Kanye.


But I mean, we are talking about a show That has been full of stereotypes and hot takes.

The Shitty Chicken Chinese guy is super racist, and they've been using him for more than a decade. Remember the episode where he has to build a great wall to keep out Mongolians, and he dumps sweet and sour sauce on them?
Click to expand...

I do and found it funny due to how ridiculous it all was despite it being extremely racist.
 
J

Jackpot

Banned
Freeman76 said:
Anyway, I'm out of this thread, you havent even read back. The only comment I have even made is that overly sensitive people probably shouldnt watch South Park. You cant even be bothered to find out what argument you are wading in on. I dont and never will support any form of racism in any way.
Click to expand...

Freeman76 said:
I give up. This thread is full of fucking hostile, stupid posts and people that just want to get aggressive for no reason.

You dont get sarcasm because you are too hyped up with your agendas.
Click to expand...

You realise storming out the thread doesn't work if you keep coming back.

Freeman76 said:
People are forewarned if they are sensitive not to watch. Sensitive person watches and is offended. You think they should still criticise the subject material? Jesus, wtf is going on in this world.
Click to expand...

Double irony for complaining about overly sensitive people when you freak out over someone swearing at you and are the only poster who feels they have to bail repeatedly from the thread.
 
A

Aurongel

Member
Boogie dodges conflicts and political disagreements like it's a game of dodgeball. I don't expect nor want him to be a political commentator but he really should recognize that he doesn't know a damn thing about politics and avoid that area of discussion altogether.
Freeman76 said:
Millenials: The Thread
Click to expand...
"How dare these people have political opinions!"
 
O

Onimusha78

Member
Freeman76 said:
I dont even see it as a joke, racism has impacted my life pretty badly as well. Anyway, I'm out of this thread, you havent even read back. The only comment I have even made is that overly sensitive people probably shouldnt watch South Park. You cant even be bothered to find out what argument you are wading in on. I dont and never will support any form of racism in any way.
Click to expand...

Oh the irony...
 
S

Spring-Loaded

Member
Freeman76 said:
I dont and never will support any form of racism in any way.
Click to expand...
But if you're being defensive for this minigame, then you are supporting racism.

I had assumed everyone understood this was indisputably a racist depiction of black people, and wondered if players found actual commentary or self awareness from the creators present in context.

Didn't expect people to miss/deny what's there.
 
K

Kusagari

Member
Boogie is a massive piece of shit. Once I found out he used to be a massive 4chan edgelord it all made sense though. He tries to keep up the nice guy act, but his true self can't help but leak through.
 
B

BTA

Member
Kusagari said:
Boogie is a massive piece of shit. Once I found out he used to be a massive 4chan edgelord it all made sense though. He tries to keep up the nice guy act, but his true self can't help but leak through.
Click to expand...

Eh, I will say I’m hesitant to damn someone just for being bad on 4chan at one point. Don’t get me wrong, doing that sucks, but there’s plenty of serious leftists in the dev/journalist community who openly admit to having been shitty teens on 4chan or SA before they grew up.

So it’s really a matter of time and a willingness to change. Which he hasn’t exactly shown, and continues to say centrist bullshit instead.
 
A

Atuin

Member
Kebiinu said:
"I don't see color." is so incredibly offensive. Color is culture. I'm black before I'm anything else, and telling me you don't see color, is telling me you don't see part of what makes me, me. See my color, know that I'm black, act accordingly.

Thinking racism will go away if we stop talking about it, is such a headass thing to say. Spare me.

As for this Kanye gag, it's the main reason I'm not purchasing the game. Shame, cause outside this tacky humor, its an actual good game.
Click to expand...

What does "act accordingly" mean? I think would be racist of me (a white european) to pay attention to anyone's color of skin. And it's really hard for me to accept I'm being "incredibly offensive" for ignoring skin color because I believe people of all skin colors are equal.
 
B

brian!

Member
arcticice said:
If you were not planning on playing the game, then that means you have no interest in South Park. if you have no interest in SP, then you wouldn't know what that mini-game is or why is it in the game. if you don't know why is it in the game, why are you getting offended and why do you want others to get offended by it.
Click to expand...

Jesus christ

Atuin said:
What does "act accordingly" mean? I think would be racist of me (a white european) to pay attention to anyone's color of skin. And it's really hard for me to accept I'm being "incredibly offensive" for ignoring skin color because I believe people of all skin colors are equal.
Click to expand...

If you can't accept it then don't, just don't expect ppl to be patient with this line of thought that's widely held to perpetuate racism and normalize the status quo.
 
P

PixelatedBookake

Junior Member
Enzom21 said:
That or "cuck." Anyone who uses "Millennial"(spelled it incorrectly, too) as a pejorative, more than likely uses "cuck" non-ironically.
Click to expand...

Sidenote: Beta-Cuck and the Millenials would be a cool band name.

But yeah to your point people only say millenials when they mean "people I don't understand/agree with"
 
M

MrSaturn99

Member
Drillary Clinton said:
I really don't understand how people can not see how blatant that imagery is. It's cut and dry.
Click to expand...

Yeah, uh, I'll typically defend South Park but this is undeniably blackface.

Personally, I agree with an earlier statement that the show's done enough shocking/tasteless imagery that I'm not particularly bothered by it, but I perfectly understand why people would be offended (putting the racial stuff aside, it is unnecessarily mean-spirited towards Kanye.)

Sailor Xan said:
I spent a long time in the Pokemon fandom hearing that "People thought Jynx was meant to be blackface when it's actually a reference to the ganguro trend, aren't people silly?"

And it turns out, if you do even a bit of basic research, that the timing on that claim doesn't work out. Ganguro wasn't widely known until after the relevant games were completed, and meanwhile blackface was a perfectly acceptable thing in Japanese media at the time - Japan having consumed older American media made when it was considered acceptable by the mainstream, but lacking the cultural context to understand why it's horrible. It was a relatively innocent mistake as these things go, and most of the blame should really lie with the localization team for not catching it.

But the dominant narrative from fans continues to be that this was a silly thing blown out of all proportion, that it wasn't blackface because of reasons, even when those justifications don't hold up to the slightest bit of scrutiny.

What I learned from the Pokemon fandom (which is, on the whole, one of the more accepting and progressive video game fandoms out there) was that the instinct fans have to defend that thing they like as Not Racist will drown out even the plainest evidence to the contrary. "Racism is bad, and I like Thing. And since I am not bad, Thing cannot be racist."

It's a pattern you start to see everywhere. Fandom can be great and all, but sadly it appears it's all too easy to let a need to deflect criticism of something you love override basic human empathy.
Click to expand...

I knew abut the Ganguro defense but wasn't aware about the timing/Japanese context of blackface. Thanks for sharing.

Regardless, spot-on analysis.
 
L

L Thammy

Member
MrSaturn99 said:
I knew abut the Ganguro defense but wasn't aware about the timing/Japanese context of blackface. Thanks for sharing.

Regardless, spot-on analysis.
Click to expand...

It's weird trying to visualize these things on a timeline and see how blackface imagery was imported. Just to chew on:

In 1853, the U.S. Navy intimidated Japan into opening their borders to trade.

In 1878, this brand of smoking tobacco was first manufactured in Milwaukee, and the name wasn't changed until the 1950s.

nigger-hair-tobaccolupl5.jpg
Click to expand...

I feel like minstrel shows and blackface imagery have been shoved under a rug in such rapid way that we struggle to appreciate how prevalent they were.
 
S

Stone Ocean

Member
AtlAntA said:
Not sure if you meant this sarcastic. But boogie really is a great guy. Some of his videos have some great advice in it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I wouldn't call trying to find the middle ground with racist pieces of shit "great advice"

Boogie is a fucking moderate coward who just wants a fake sense of peace instead of trying to actually deal with issues.
 
L

L Thammy

Member
Stone Ocean said:
Yeah, I wouldn't call trying to find the middle ground with racist pieces of shit "great advice"

Boogie is a fucking moderate coward who just wants a fake sense of peace instead of trying to actually deal with issues.
Click to expand...

Boogie's the kind of moderate who will happily chat with MRAs and racists while they demonize others, but when someone criticizes them for it, jumps up to say "come on guys they just want to be heard".

The whole fencesitting shtick's just a smokescreen so that he can avoid getting heat for associating with the groups he defends. It's like the "I'm not a racist, but" where what he insists he is and believes doesn't actually line up with what he's doing when he says it.
 
K

Kebiinu

Banned
Atuin said:
What does "act accordingly" mean? I think would be racist of me (a white european) to pay attention to anyone's color of skin. And it's really hard for me to accept I'm being "incredibly offensive" for ignoring skin color because I believe people of all skin colors are equal.
Click to expand...

Act accordingly means don't say stupid shit like, "I believe all skin colors are equal." cause the world shows us everyday that we're not. So don't expect people like me, a minority, to entertain the 'idea' of "I don't see color."

Color is who I am. Color is culture. I can't speak for white people, but I know us black people are very proud of our skin color, we wear it proudly, it's our roots, our hair, our creativity. So yes, it's offensive. And you should pay attention, because the world does not treat you and me equal.
 
C

CannonFodder52

Member
BTA said:
Eh, I will say I’m hesitant to damn someone just for being bad on 4chan at one point. Don’t get me wrong, doing that sucks, but there’s plenty of serious leftists in the dev/journalist community who openly admit to having been shitty teens on 4chan or SA before they grew up.
Click to expand...

Isn't SA very left leaning and moderated?

I haven't used it, I just got that impression. Plus a lot of decent people seem to originate from there.
 
S

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
Telephone Man said:
Perfect post.

And that is definitely blackface. Don't see the point behind designing her like that unless I'm missing a joke connected to this.

And if there isn't a joke, then they should've instead just made her green, or at most brown.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's 100% definite. She's a really dark purple rather than black. Plus they've done black face before on South Park and it's never subtle. It's not like that would bother to hide it.

Something like this is definitely black face:

latest
 
B

BTA

Member
CannonFodder52 said:
Isn't SA very left leaning and moderated?

I haven't used it, I just got that impression. Plus a lot of decent people seem to originate from there.
Click to expand...

Eh, I only very briefly spent some time on it but I think it’s all over the place. Generally when I see people talk about using 4chan + SA when they were younger and shitty, it’s specifically a particularly bad SA subforum.

Beyond that I think a lot of those decent people that directly spun out of it/are known for their initial connection to it (particularly for LPing and such) don’t actually use the site anymore, which is maybe telling. Its owner’s a bit of a mess, in any case; I know that much at least.
 
F

Foxy the Fox

Member
I remember being shocked and offended watching South Park when they depicted Jesus and Catholism as a child.

I understand the similitudes with black face and it seems very wrong and is fair to be criticized but I fail to see the point to direct any kind of criticism to South Park which survives by offending people and probably they will keep doing it for another 20 years. What would be the endgame of it? Trying to make Trey to apologize or to be more tasteful?

Besides Jesus, I am always shocked when they depict pedophilia or those “anal drills” in childs :/
 
C

Charlouie Jonesman

Banned
BTA said:
Eh, I only very briefly spent some time on it but I think it's all over the place. Generally when I see people talk about using 4chan + SA when they were younger and shitty, it's specifically a particularly bad SA subforum.

Beyond that I think a lot of those decent people that directly spun out of it/are known for their initial connection to it (particularly for LPing and such) don't actually use the site anymore, which is maybe telling. Its owner's a bit of a mess, in any case; I know that much at least.
Click to expand...

I think the forum has just kind of lost a lot of relevancy and speaking of the famous LPers that spawned from there specifically, I think most of them have just turned to a more casual, streaming approach. Compared to what it was in it's very early years (Basically just lots of edgelord humor.), SA definitly become very left-leaning but the quality of discussion you could have varied from subboard to subboard. I know that when the whole Gamergate thing sarted, their approach was pretty much "We don't touch any of that shit."

Maybe this has changed again over the last few years, haven't visited all that frequently the past 2 or 3 years.
 
R

Ravelle

Member
The mini game felt a bit out of place and unnecessary and the religion part could have easily be done with another quest from the Church. It's a reference to Kanye making a video game dedicated to his mother or something.

The portrayal of his mother is a bit over the top but I don't think it's worse than any other joke about black people they have in this game.
They have a elder god called Shub-Niggurath that only eats black people
 
L

L Thammy

Member
Ravelle said:
The mini game felt a bit out of place and unnecessary and the religion part could have easily be done with another quest from the Church. It's a reference to Kanye making a video game dedicated to his mother or something.

The portrayal of his mother is a bit over the top but I don't think it's worse than any other joke about black people they have in this game.
They have a elder god called Shub-Niggurath that only eats black people
Click to expand...

That actually might be
making fun of H.P. Lovecraft. Shub Niggurath is one of the gods in his works (the black goat with a thousand young) and he was a huge racist even by the standards of his time.
That doesn't excuse anything else though, and it isn't automatically a good parody; I'd have to see it to tell.
 
R

Ravelle

Member
L Thammy said:
That actually might be
making fun of H.P. Lovecraft. Shub Niggurath is one of the gods in his works (the black goat with a thousand young) and he was a huge racist even by the standards of his time.
That doesn't excuse anything else though, and it isn't automatically a good parody; I'd have to see it to tell.
Click to expand...

Oh he's actually called like that, I thought it was their spin on it. They actually used lovecraft being racist as their joke for it though which I thought was pretty funny.

I think the mini game feeling like an afterthought or a shoe-in just to get in that gay fish joke is worse than it being offensive since it didn't have anything to do with the story.
 
L

L Thammy

Member
Foxy the Fox said:
I remember being shocked and offended watching South Park when they depicted Jesus and Catholism as a child.

I understand the similitudes with black face and it seems very wrong and is fair to be criticized but I fail to see the point to direct any kind of criticism to South Park which survives by offending people and probably they will keep doing it for another 20 years. What would be the endgame of it? Trying to make Trey to apologize or to be more tasteful?

Besides Jesus, I am always shocked when they depict pedophilia or those “anal drills” in childs :/
Click to expand...

The issue here isn't shock value. It's the status of the joke as a parody.

Ravelle said:
Oh he's actually called like that, I thought it was their spin on it. They actually used lovecraft being racist as their joke for it though which I thought was pretty funny.

I think the mini game feeling like an afterthought or a shoe-in just to get in that gay fish joke is worse than it being offensive since it didn't have anything to do with the story.
Click to expand...

By the sounds of it, though, these two serve as a good contrast to each other. Where the other joke is effective or not, you can see that its intention is to make fun of a racist. Wheres the fish joke is just randomly using blackface in mocking a black person.

Considering the race commentary and criticism of racism in the game, the mammy fish is particularly jarring. It's hard to dismiss it as an accident when they are so aware about the same topics otherwise. I feel like the "buy Trey and Matt fight racism, so it's okay" argument that's been spouted by defenders in this thread might have been internalized in whoever decided to make that fish look that way. I've certainly seen it internalized before; look at how Bill Maher talked down his black guest when defending Sarah Silverman back when, and how he tried to defend himself before Ice Cube cut him down.
 
A

Atuin

Member
Kebiinu said:
Act accordingly means don't say stupid shit like, "I believe all skin colors are equal." cause the world shows us everyday that we're not. So don't expect people like me, a minority, to entertain the 'idea' of "I don't see color."

Color is who I am. Color is culture. I can't speak for white people, but I know us black people are very proud of our skin color, we wear it proudly, it's our roots, our hair, our creativity. So yes, it's offensive. And you should pay attention, because the world does not treat you and me equal.
Click to expand...

I meant "equal to me", as in I personally consider all races equal. I never said people aren't allowed to be proud of their heritage or that there is no racial discrimination in the world. But if that's stupid shit I don't know what to say.
 
Freeman76

Freeman76

Member
Enzom21 said:
Explain exactly what makes it a "Millennials" thread.
Click to expand...

ScientificPizza said:
Those pesky millenials always trying to stop racism
Click to expand...

JBourne said:
You make a couple shitposts, claim you're leaving when people start calling you out, but you just can't stay away.
Edit: you also refused to answer someone's question because they cursed, then accused them of hurling abuse and calling you a racist. You're one sensitive motherfucker.
Click to expand...

Snkfanatic said:
You're so insightful. Wow
Click to expand...

Jackpot said:
You realise storming out the thread doesn't work if you keep coming back.



Double irony for complaining about overly sensitive people when you freak out over someone swearing at you and are the only poster who feels they have to bail repeatedly from the thread.
Click to expand...

Onimusha78 said:
Oh the irony...
Click to expand...

Spring-Loaded said:
But if you're being defensive for this minigame, then you are supporting racism.

I had assumed everyone understood this was indisputably a racist depiction of black people, and wondered if players found actual commentary or self awareness from the creators present in context.

Didn't expect people to miss/deny what's there.
Click to expand...

All you dont have the IQ of a cabbage between you. None of you bothered to read beyond the part that annoyed you. Idiots.
 
V

Varg

Banned
God some of you are the biggest pussies I swear . OP do you piss sitting down ? This is why we can’t have free expression in video games these days . Everyone gets offended some way or another
 
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