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LTTP: DOOM (2016) - Hell sure is boring

D

DerZuhälter

Member
I agree in parts with the OP.

The arena leveldesign gets a bit stale after a while, even though the gunplay feels great. But I feel it's such a limited shooter experience. You search for secrets (that are shown on the map) and try to do certain types of kills because they keep dangling upgrade points over your head for doing that. You do nothing with the enviroment, there is no element of physics involved and only the hunt for keys, can be described as "puzzle". There is absolutely nothing smart about this game. The AI is also only rushing forward towards you, they have great pathfinding considering the arena designs, but that's about it. And shooters nowadays can be much smarter I believe.

But obviously smart isn't what id was going for, duh. It's Doom. Kill demons, be badass. It delivers on that, but it's a very limited experience that gets streched out for far too long. And the design of hell was just as ass as in Doom 3.
 
K

Korigama

Member
Can't say I'm getting what anyone means about weapons lacking weight or coming off as weak (the pistol, sure, but that's about it and is to be expected), never mind Glory Kills lacking "impact" or sound.

And yes, this is a game where the player has to want to be focused on mastering the mechanics, not unlike a character-action game. If that's not what the player is into, then there is a chance of them complaining about the "loop", of them wondering "is this it?". But, I wouldn't have it any other way. It's focused on the combat above all else, rather than level-specific gimmicks or the spectacle of setpieces.
 
H

Hero

Member
Played the first three levels on the default difficulty. It's fun and kind of nostalgic in a way but yeah, kind of boring. I hear it's short so I guess I'll finish it.
 
J

Jito

Banned
NightShift said:
A majority of the world will not wait for or just straight up can't download 30GB worth of patches. It will take me a full day to download that on a good day.
Click to expand...

If that were the case then developers would look at their stats and notice no one is downloading the patches. I'm pretty confident it's not a huge issue waiting an extra few hours / day for a game to patch. And obviously you shouldn't judge a game you're playing without patches, that's on you.
 
R

RandomTiger

Member
For me it was a breath of fresh air from all the cluttered mechanics of FPS games I've played over the last few years. Back to basics with a sense of purpose. The monsters are easy to predict in small groups but if you ramp up the difficulty everything gets a lot more intense, you cant keep the numbers down fast enough and their once simple attacks combine to create very complex combat in which you leap around the environment picking your battles, swapping your ammo as it runs out, hoping you can get by taking no more than a handful of hits from even the weakest enemies or its over.

I'd say put it down for now and come back it to later and ramp the difficulty up.
 
P

paulryp

Banned
Bloodporne said:
I didn't have an issue with the movement and jumping particularly, I know you're not really criticizing the actual option to jump however, but I did pretty much think almost everything else about this game had zero to do with the originals or even the multitudes of 90s clones which were all leagues above this game.

Now I didn't NEED this game to be just like the originals or anything, I just find it tacky that the entire marketing campaign and preview campaign focused on how much it's exactly like the originals and so 'old school'. It just isn't outside of the fact that its movement speed is...fast.

I get that I'm in the massive minority with that opinion and my OG Doom fanboy-ism but I can't help it. I was hoping for a new Doom to be a continuation of PSX Doom/Doom 64 atmospherics brought into the current gen. Huge, claustrophobic maze-like level designs, intimidating and off-the-wall enemy and environment designs, things like that I guess. I envisioned some hellish HR Giger iteration of PSX Doom/Doom 64 which almost have a slight Survival Horror aspect to them on Ultra Violence. Alright, fanboy rant over.
Click to expand...

This guy gets it. I think this is why i was disappointed. I loved PSX Doom/Doom 64 and New Doom is boring compared to these underrated classics.
 
B

Bloodporne

Member
Korigama said:
Can't say I'm getting what anyone means about weapons lacking weight or coming off as weak (the pistol, sure, but that's about it), never mind Glory Kills lacking "impact" or sound.
Click to expand...

I tried playing through both my stereo setup and Sennheiser headphones and thought the audio mix was terribly over-compressed which made everything pretty muddled and nothing really stood out. It was very much a soup of brickwalled sounds which makes everything end up sounding rather weak and lacking impact. I assume that can create this impression overall.

I also felt like both weapons, monster sounds, kill sounds etc. were nowhere near hard-hitting enough.
 
T

Thornton Reed

Member
I've just read that i can change the FOV. I wished i knew that last week. I will give that a try.

So my take away is that i'm going to play with the FOV settings and up the difficulty.
 
I

InsaneTiger

Member
I agree. The gameplay loop is just boring and making it harder doesn't change the loop just makes it more difficult! (Shock)

I mean it's fun in it own way but no way is it better than DOOM II. It's like the third best Doom game.

Changing the FOV is nice.
 
C

Comfort Jones

Banned
Blinck said:
Care to elaborate?
Click to expand...

I feel like I'm almost backseat modding or something when I try to get people to do so but seriously it aggravates the shit out of me how many times I see people just go "nah I disagree with you" and leave.

"Wind Waker was the best Zelda"

*someone quotes him and changes it to some other title * "FTFY"

Like are we even attempting to have a discussion or are we screaming into the void here?
 
M

Maxrunner

Member
DerZuhälter;228601256 said:
I agree in parts with the OP.

The arena leveldesign gets a bit stale after a while, even though the gunplay feels great. But I feel it's such a limited shooter experience. You search for secrets (that are shown on the map) and try to do certain types of kills because they keep dangling upgrade points over your head for doing that. You do nothing with the enviroment, there is no element of physics involved and only the hunt for keys, can be described as "puzzle". There is absolutely nothing smart about this game. The AI is also only rushing forward towards you, they have great pathfinding considering the arena designs, but that's about it. And shooters nowadays can be much smarter I believe.

But obviously smart isn't what id was going for, duh. It's Doom. Kill demons, be badass. It delivers on that, but it's a very limited experience that gets streched out for far too long. And the design of hell was just as ass as in Doom 3.
Click to expand...

That the demo clearly shows...
 
M

Magic Mushroom

Member
Blinck said:
Care to elaborate?
Click to expand...

I think many people don't really enjoy the combat of the Bioshock games, whereas Doom has a great combat loop, which combines strafing, weapon switching, glory kills, multile enemy types with their own strengts and weaknesses and verticality to great effect.
 
T

Thornton Reed

Member
Magic Mushroom said:
I think many people don't really enjoy the combat of the Bioshock games, whereas Doom has a great combat loop, which combines strafing, weapon switching, glory kills, multile enemy types with their own strengts and weaknesses and verticality to great effect.
Click to expand...

this may sound like a dumb question but what is the best way to achieve this in the game? I have heard people talk about combing the weapons but i find that weapon wheel a pain in the arse to use at times especially when i'm in a tight spot.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
Blinck said:
Care to elaborate?
Click to expand...
The original Bioshock does some things fun with combat (mostly the options given to set up an encounter) but the bullet sponge hit-scan lead head Splicers aren't my idea of a good time.

Bioshock Infinite's combat is a trainwreck. The weapons are a sludge of undifferentiated options that work terribly with the two weapon limit and pointless upgrading system, the enemies are dumb-as-rocks with laughably inflated health, regenerating health isn't well-implemented, and the arena design is terrible thanks to having absurdly large distances between platforms when almost all the weapons and abilities are mid- or close-range, forcing you to use the sky rail just to shoot shit. Also, Lady Comstock is legitimately one of the worst bosses I have ever fought. And you fight her three goddamn times.
 
T

Thornton Reed

Member
lets just move past the bioshock comparison. I don't want the discussion to get bogged down in that. Bioshock infinite is in my top 5 games of all time despite all of its short comings.
 
B

Brandon F

Well congratulations! You got yourself caught!
Can empathize somewhat with the OP even if I fully disagree. I did find the gameplay loop worked FAR better in short bursts, taking breaks after level completion over a good period of time. It can be real easy to burnout or dramaticize faults in such a frenzied playthrough, but the OP explanation for being so rushed sounded totally ludicrous. It's a videogame, not a job. Find freetime to enjoy it or don't ffs.
 
TheRedSnifit

TheRedSnifit

Member
Comfort Jones said:
I feel like I'm almost backseat modding or something when I try to get people to do so but seriously it aggravates the shit out of me how many times I see people just go "nah I disagree with you" and leave.

"Wind Waker was the best Zelda"

*someone quotes him and changes it to some other title * "FTFY"

Like are we even attempting to have a discussion or are we screaming into the void here?
Click to expand...

The guns barely feel like guns, the AI is dumber than a rock, the enemies are obscenely spongey (especially in the back end of the game), and the optimal strategy for almost the entire game is "Zap dudes and wack them with the wrench."
 
T

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
Thornton Reed said:
and up the difficulty.
Click to expand...

Don't bother. I played (the opening level/demo) on the hardest difficulty and outside of frustrating damage points, the campaign in that level was still boring. If it's boring you past that level, I really can't see it grabbing you with more frustration.
 
B

Blinck

Member
Comfort Jones said:
I feel like I'm almost backseat modding or something when I try to get people to do so but seriously it aggravates the shit out of me how many times I see people just go "nah I disagree with you" and leave.

"Wind Waker was the best Zelda"

*someone quotes him and changes it to some other title * "FTFY"

Like are we even attempting to have a discussion or are we screaming into the void here?
Click to expand...

Yeap, I don't get it either but oh well -.-

Magic Mushroom said:
I think many people don't really enjoy the combat of the Bioshock games, whereas Doom has a great combat loop, which combines strafing, weapon switching, glory kills, multile enemy types with their own strengts and weaknesses and verticality to great effect.
Click to expand...

Jito said:
Bioshock isn't all that great of a shooter, either is Bioshock Infinite. I personally played them for exploring the world and the stories, the combat gameplay was never all that great.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, and thank you for explaining!

I still like Bioshock's combat better, specially Infinite. The options with all the Vigors ( using them directly or as traps), the Railways, the Guns, and the temporal things that Elisabeth summons...I just really liked it as I felt there was something happening all the time during combat. The screams and taunts of the enemies, seeing them using the railways as well, Elisabeth giving you ammo.

I just think it was much more diversified in general.. Although the weapons in Doom seem cooler so far!

This is just talking about the combat. I think the story, art direction, and almost everything else is just a notch above (although I don't think these points are the main focus of DOOM anyway)
 
R

RandomTiger

Member
Thornton Reed said:
I've just read that i can change the FOV. I wished i knew that last week. I will give that a try.

So my take away is that i'm going to play with the FOV settings and up the difficulty.
Click to expand...

Not sure what the issue with FOV is, definitely up the difficulty, I found normal challenging at first but I'm playing it on nightmare now. It just sounds like you are breezing through without having you really get stuck in.

When I get in a zone with this game I'll be in constant motion, vertically as well as on the ground and its chaos but I can feel in my brain I have a rough map of where the enemy's generally are and am constantly planning my gore kills / weapon switches / special pickups a few steps ahead because the moment you stall to think or botch a weapon choice something will have you torn to bits in a second.
 
I

InsertNameHere

Member
Maybe I am just burnt out, but for some reason I cannot get into Doom. I'm going to try again tonight and stick with it, because with the first level I had a lot of fun, but something just stops me from continuing.
 
G

ghostjoke

Banned
You appear to have bought an old school FPS but do not like old school FPS mechanics. Strafing and shooting is how the game works. Some things if you're still trying:

  1. Bump that difficulty up. Just keep going until you are completely overwhelmed.
  2. You don't need all the upgrades. Don't waste your time going back to get them. If more than a minute passes without you killing something, you're doing it wrong.
  3. You should always be switching between weapons to counteract different enemies. All weapons have value depending on the circumstances. Experiment and find the loop.
  4. Don't just strafe around a certain block. Run the entire area (higher difficulty will force this). The chainsaw is the last resort to get a second wind.
  5. Probably not an option but play on PC

Also, is BioShock really what passes as depth now? It's a good game, but the combat is dire and all flash. A few basic things trivialised the entire game even on the highest difficulty while DOOM forces you to keep switching up weapons otherwise enemies start to become bullet spongy.
 
adamsapple

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Hero said:
Played the first three levels on the default difficulty. It's fun and kind of nostalgic in a way but yeah, kind of boring. I hear it's short so I guess I'll finish it.
Click to expand...

It actually is fairly short, I finished it in a single day in 2 sittings over the weekend. Traded it in shortly thereafter. Absolutely no interest in the MP.

Game has a very solid arcadey campaign. Some of the combat scenarios later are very fun and hectic. Game looks and runs beautifully on consoles oo.
 
T

Thornton Reed

Member
ghostjoke said:
You appear to have bought an old school FPS but do not like old school FPS mechanics. Strafing and shooting is how the game works. Some things if you're still trying:

  1. Bump that difficulty up. Just keep going until you are completely overwhelmed.
  2. You don't need all the upgrades. Don't waste your time going back to get them. If more than a minute passes without you killing something, you're doing it wrong.
  3. You should always be switching between weapons to counteract different enemies. All weapons have value depending on the circumstances. Experiment and find the loop.
  4. Don't just strafe around a certain block. Run the entire area (higher difficulty will force this). The chainsaw is the last resort to get a second wind.
  5. Probably not an option but play on PC

Also, is BioShock really what passes as depth now? It's a good game, but the combat is dire and all flash. A few basic things trivialised the entire game even on the highest difficulty while DOOM forces you to keep switching up weapons otherwise enemies start to become bullet spongy.
Click to expand...

I'm really not getting this weapon switching as mentioned earlier. I'm just emptying a gun and moving on to the next as i'm not great at using that weapon wheel
 
T

Tovarisc

Member
TheSeks said:
Don't bother. I played (the opening level/demo) on the hardest difficulty and outside of frustrating damage points, the campaign in that level was still boring. If it's boring you past that level, I really can't see it grabbing you with more frustration.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't judge whole game after only playing short tutorial. Also imo sweetspot for DOOM 2016 is one difficulty level below hardest. Hardest is good for 2nd playthrough once you are familiar with the game. Gameplay of DOOM starts to shine as more demon types are introduced and arenas start to get varied waves instead of just imps or just infested marines etc.
 
R

RandomTiger

Member
Also I assume the glory kills are meant to be disorienting to an extent, its a risk with a payoff. You get a quick kill and some armour or ammo but have locked yourself into a set animation for a short period of time. The other monsters aren't going to stand about watching you do this, they are going to use it to their advantage and get their gory kill!
 
R

RudoIudo

Member
Thornton Reed said:
NB playing the game on the middle difficulty on PS4
Click to expand...

Well you managed to invalidate your post in a single sentence (if the fov complaint and the bioshock comparision weren't enough).

Doom singleplayer has become one of the best example on how to reinvent a classic and be faithful to the original at the same time.
The game structure sure isn't for everyone on the modern market but, considerng the type of game is trying to be, Doom is just solid in almost every aspect.
 
B

Bloodporne

Member
InsaneTiger said:
I agree. The gameplay loop is just boring and making it harder doesn't change the loop just makes it more difficult! (Shock)

I mean it's fun in it own way but no way is it better than DOOM II. It's like the third best Doom game.

Changing the FOV is nice.
Click to expand...

I think it's considerably lower down the list when you take Doom 64, Brutal Doom's Hell On Earth campaign and the endless amounts of great fan-made campaigns into account. Doom 3 was a fucking huge let-down for me upon release but at least it tried to be innovative and creative like id used to be.
 
C

Chubzdoomer

Banned
Comfort Jones said:
I absolutely have no idea what game Doom 2016 supposedly calls back to in people's heads. It plays absolutely nothing like the original, seriously. The way enemies, level design, and even movement work is totally different. FFS you couldn't jump.
Click to expand...
Glad someone finally said this.

And I can't believe Titanfall 2 was actually recommended over Doom. LMAO. Apples and oranges.
 
G

Ganrob

Neo Member
Thornton Reed said:
When i compare this game to something like the bioshock's, doom is totally lacking in depth in every area in comparison.
Click to expand...

giphy.gif


comparison doesn't work
 
J

Jito

Banned
Thornton Reed said:
I'm really not getting this weapon switching as mentioned earlier. I'm just emptying a gun and moving on to the next as i'm not great at using that weapon wheel
Click to expand...

What's complicated about it? It even slows time down when you hold it down and the weapons are always in the same positions.

prudislav said:
i somehow find this way more appealing than the modern loop of walking - shooting gallery - cutscene - walking - shooting gallery .....
Click to expand...

Yeh exactly, compared to something like Bioshock which is mainly wandering around collecting resources, listening to audio logs or fighting a handful of enemies at a time, I'd rather be bombing it around a room blowing hordes of demons to bits any day.
 
R

RandomTiger

Member
Nikana said:
What's hard about the weapon wheel?
Click to expand...

I don't like the weapon wheel myself as I'm not as used to it as [I am] using keyboard changes, also [weapon wheel] slows the gameplay which feels a little bit like a cheat to me as you can press it just to get a breather.

I'm pretty much a converted console player now and would play any FPS game on console happily, except Doom 2016 which I think benefits from a mouse and keyboard enough to warrant playing on PC.
 
Hari Seldon

Hari Seldon

Member
chandoog said:
It actually is fairly short, I finished it in a single day in 2 sittings over the weekend. Traded it in shortly thereafter. Absolutely no interest in the MP.

Game has a very solid arcadey campaign. Some of the combat scenarios later are very fun and hectic. Game looks and runs beautifully on consoles oo.
Click to expand...

It took me 26 hours to finish it with all the secrets found, about half the weapon challenges done, all the rune challenges, etc. You can blow through the game very fast or take your time, which is cool.
 
highrider

highrider

Banned
I like Doom, but I'm not seeing great game. More of a fun romp. I would have preferred more of a Doom 3 direction for the series. My only issue with the new Doom is that there is no sense of dread or fear. It's kind of a pure arcade game, which is fine, but it began to sort of fall flat for me about halfway through.

I also really can't stand the music. Sorry metal dudes.
 
Nikana

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
RandomTiger said:
. I don't like the weapon wheel myself as I'm not as used to it as using keyboard changes also it slows the gameplay which feels a little bit like a cheat to me as you can press it just to get a breather.

I'm pretty much a converted console player now and would play any FPS game on console happily, except Doom 2016 which I think benefits from a mouse and keyboard enough to warrant playing on PC.
Click to expand...

Then use the number keys?
 
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