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Nightbird
Member
(09-21-2017, 08:09 AM)
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Good to know. I will continue to not support EA.
Joni
Member
(09-21-2017, 08:11 AM)
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This is less mean EA and more reality that it wasn't selling that well so they didn't go for a sequel.

Originally Posted by Duchess O'Death

It puts things into perspective. Just how shitty EA is compared to how Ubisoft's CEO Yves Guillemot cares about his employees and studios.

Well, aside from the guy that gave them assassin's Creed who he fired twice. Second time just to get his hands on the game the dude wasn't allowed to make at Ubisoft.
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
(09-21-2017, 08:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by strafer

You probably killed Dead Space 4 as well.

Monsters. :(

I hate EA as much as anyone, but Dead Space 3 and Star Wars killed Dead Space 4.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
(09-21-2017, 08:23 AM)
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Won't be re-upping my EA Access subscription this year, it seems.
Stygr
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(09-21-2017, 08:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by Herb Alpert

I've played video games for almost 30 years. I've never ever bought an EA title, and I just realized that few years ago. Never on the NES, neither on the SNES nor the PS2.
I guess this will go on.


You've missed a lot of good games.
Orpheum
Member
(09-21-2017, 08:25 AM)
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EA just don't give a damn, right? this is messed up all around
Durante
Come on down to Durante's drivethru PC port fixes. 15 minutes or less. Yelp: ★★★★★

Fixed Souls, Deadly Premonition, Lightning Returns, Umihara Kawase, Symphonia, Little King's Story, PhD, likes mimosas.
(09-21-2017, 08:29 AM)
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While this isn't too surprising for us old folks, a small reminder for younger gamers -- in comic form:

GiantBreadbug
Member
(09-21-2017, 08:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by Stygr

You've missed a lot of good games.

I haven't either and I feel like I've missed basically nothing

And will continue not missing
KdotIX
Member
(09-21-2017, 08:32 AM)
It really sucks when you realise they’ve got grips on Critereon and that we will probs never see another Burnout game again. I fucking miss Burnout games.
Anticol
Member
(09-21-2017, 08:35 AM)
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FUCK EA. I am glad mass effect is dead and hopefully other EA's ips will follow.
gngf123
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(09-21-2017, 08:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by Stygr

You've missed a lot of good games.

Everyone misses good games. Can't play everything.

Crossing off one or two shitty publishers isn't much of a big deal.
Last edited by gngf123; 09-21-2017 at 09:00 AM.
Snefer
Junior Member
(09-21-2017, 08:38 AM)
So what did EA do to fuck them over except cancelling the game? He says he took the money for staying exclusive to them and paid them out as bonuses, and then had zero overhead in case of a game getting cancelled?
Necro900
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(09-21-2017, 08:39 AM)
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Wait, I may be missing something here, but the way it's worded it sounds like they got 1,5 mil without even needing to develop a game. Since EA did not actually buy their company but apparently the rights to develop Shift 3 what prevented them to start working on whatever else they wanted, with 1,5 mil more in the bank?

I get that he paid coworkers, bonuses, ecc, and that's his business. I'm trying to understand things from EA's perspective, since I fail to see how paying a large sum of money to a developer for a project they'll then cancel could benefit their business. Or even damage the developer, since Slightly Mad had not yet started to work on it. Technology theft may be one reason, but PCars CEO did the sensible thing in that regard.

Not trying to bash Slightly Mad, I'm trying to understand how these things work
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
(09-21-2017, 08:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by Snefer

So what did EA do to fuck them over except cancelling the game? He says he took the money for staying exclusive to them and paid them out as bonuses, and then had zero overhead in case of a game getting cancelled?

They gave them money to not sign a deal with another publisher, which would secure their future, and promised to make another game with them which they had no intention of doing. It's pretty clear.

Originally Posted by gngf123

Everyone misses good games. Can't play everything.

Crossing off one of two shitty publishers isn't much of a big deal.

I would still give Dead Space, Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 2 a try.
Last edited by Markitron; 09-21-2017 at 08:43 AM.
jariw
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(09-21-2017, 08:41 AM)
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Is the company behind Project Cars that much better than EA? For how long did they talk about the Wii U version of Project Cars, saying how great it was, before making the public finally realize that it was a vaporware project?
Mr_Moogle
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(09-21-2017, 08:42 AM)
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Seriously fuck EA. They are such a bunch of cunts. I was still pissed at them over Bullfrog but there are clearly more relevant reasons to hate them now.
DieH@rd
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(09-21-2017, 08:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by Durante

While this isn't too surprising for us old folks, a small reminder for younger gamers -- in comic form:

We need a new comic now... in which SimplyMadStudios kid will dodge the bullet and kick EA in the balls.
Anticol
Member
(09-21-2017, 08:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by jariw

Is the company behind Project Cars that much better than EA? For how long did they talk about the Wii U version of Project Cars, saying how great it was, before making the public finally realize that it was a vaporware project?

Great post and both things are exactly the same. I've learned something new today, thank you.

Idiot.
liquidtmd
(09-21-2017, 08:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by Markitron

They gave them money to not sign a deal with another publisher, which would secure their future, and promised to make another game with them which they had no intention of doing. It's pretty clear.

Yep

Give a fresh impressionable team $1.5mill, tie them to you, know they will burn through the $1.5million then pull the promised project from them leaving them to die and be open to be stripped bare by vultures.

Brazen.
Compsiox
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(09-21-2017, 08:44 AM)
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First Bethesda, now EA, here comes Activision.
TatteredHat
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(09-21-2017, 08:46 AM)
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Among the reasons why I don't buy EA games anymore. The closing of studios are big public spectacles, but I bet there's a ton of scummy shit going on behind EA's doors that we have never heard about.
Last edited by TatteredHat; 09-21-2017 at 08:48 AM.
fresquito
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(09-21-2017, 08:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by Necro900

Wait, I may be missing something here, but the way it's worded it sounds like they got 1,5 mil without even needing to develop a game. Since EA did not actually buy their company but apparently the rights to develop Shift 3 what prevented them to start working on whatever else they wanted, with 1,5 mil more in the bank?

I get that he paid coworkers, bonuses, ecc, and that's his business. I'm trying to understand things from EA's perspective, since I fail to see how paying a large sum of money to a developer for a project they'll then cancel could benefit their business. Or even damage the developer, since Slightly Mad had not yet started to work on it. Technology theft may be one reason, but PCars CEO did the sensible thing in that regard.

Not trying to bash Slightly Mad, I'm trying to understand how these things work

EA signed an exclusive deal with SMS with no intention to publish their game. SMS could not go to other publisher nor even use their own developed tech (until they bought it back through a middle enterprise they created for that reason alone).
jariw
Member
(09-21-2017, 08:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Anticol

Great post and both things are exactly the same. I've learned something new today, thank you.

Idiot.

You're welcome. I was just asking some questions here.
Shaneus
Member
(09-21-2017, 08:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by dreamfall

Scum.

I miss Pandemic.

We deserve another Saboteur :(
fresquito
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(09-21-2017, 08:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by jariw

You're welcome. I was just asking some questions here.

Some stupid questions, you mean. Cancelling a game and killing a dev team sounds the same to you?
leeh
Member
(09-21-2017, 08:54 AM)
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I'm going to be devil's advocate here, but why did it nearly kill the company if he paid them bonuses out of the 1.5 million he got from the deal? From how he talked about it, it's like he got the lump sum, paid the staff and then the deal got took away.

What will of happened, is that they were promised 1.5mil, the CEO got excited and then paid all the staff bonuses out of their kitty when they didn't have the formal guarantee that money will be available to him and the deal got took away.

That isn't EA sabotaging, that's the CEO giving away money he doesn't have. He nearly killed his own company. EA was just acting like any big company, where things change all the time.
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
(09-21-2017, 08:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by jariw

You're welcome. I was just asking some questions here.

The answers to your questions are:

1) Yes
2) It's irrelevant
Anticol
Member
(09-21-2017, 09:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by jariw

You're welcome. I was just asking some questions here.

M8 we are adults here, you knew the answers of your questions by the way you made them, you were only trying to make a false equivalence because you probably felt and still feel offended because a wiiu game was cancelled.
Necro900
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(09-21-2017, 09:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by fresquito

EA signed an exclusive deal with SMS with no intention to publish their game. SMS could not go to other publisher nor even use their own developed tech (until they bought it back through a middle enterprise they created for that reason alone).


Wait, but did EA actually pay the 1,5 mil for the exclusivity? I mean, did that money ever get to SMS before the work on shift 3 started? That's what's unclear. He says "I took the 1,5 mil". I could totally understand the issue if the money was just promised.

The technology bit I understand, and it's scummy as fuck. Glad they sorted it out!
I also find it crazy that developers are expected to put the very tools they use to craft games under contract terms. What the hell is that.

EDIT: Okay, read it more carefully, apparently they couldn't even turn to other publishers for other games. That's some contract there. Stay classy EA
Last edited by Necro900; 09-21-2017 at 09:10 AM.
Inviusx
Banned
(09-21-2017, 09:07 AM)

Originally Posted by leeh

I'm going to be devil's advocate here, but why did it nearly kill the company if he paid them bonuses out of the 1.5 million he got from the deal? From how he talked about it, it's like he got the lump sum, paid the staff and then the deal got took away.

What will of happened, is that they were promised 1.5mil, the CEO got excited and then paid all the staff bonuses out of their kitty when they didn't have the formal guarantee that money will be available to him and the deal got took away.

That isn't EA sabotaging, that's the CEO giving away money he doesn't have. He nearly killed his own company. EA was just acting like any big company, where things change all the time.

The 1.5mil wasn't the budget for Shift 3. It sounds like it was some sort signing bonus for studio for sticking exclusively with EA.
Alexander DeLarge
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(09-21-2017, 09:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by leeh

I'm going to be devil's advocate here, but why did it nearly kill the company if he paid them bonuses out of the 1.5 million he got from the deal? From how he talked about it, it's like he got the lump sum, paid the staff and then the deal got took away.

What will of happened, is that they were promised 1.5mil, the CEO got excited and then paid all the staff bonuses out of their kitty when they didn't have the formal guarantee that money will be available to him and the deal got took away.

That isn't EA sabotaging, that's the CEO giving away money he doesn't have. He nearly killed his own company. EA was just acting like any big company, where things change all the time.

The deal was made before Shift 2 went into production, the 1.5 million was given as a bonus as long as they promised they wouldn't make Shift 2 and then go and have discussions with other publishers. When Shift 2 completed development, despite receiving good reviews, they said "we're not going forward with Shift 3" and tried to pull a fast one with ownership of their tech.
liquidtmd
(09-21-2017, 09:09 AM)
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Originally Posted by leeh

I'm going to be devil's advocate here, but why did it nearly kill the company if he paid them bonuses out of the 1.5 million he got from the deal? From how he talked about it, it's like he got the lump sum, paid the staff and then the deal got took away.

What will of happened, is that they were promised 1.5mil, the CEO got excited and then paid all the staff bonuses out of their kitty when they didn't have the formal guarantee that money will be available to him and the deal got took away.

That isn't EA sabotaging, that's the CEO giving away money he doesn't have. He nearly killed his own company. EA was just acting like any big company, where things change all the time.

Say you start a new company. You are doing well. Promising start, good foundations, decent tech. A huge company like EA comes in with a big fat wad of cash and promise of taking you under its wing.

Sure we can pick it apart online on GAF, but in the real world...you work for years in the cold and EA offers that? Veeerrry attractive. Short term...you tie yourselves into them, you reward the staff that stayed with you during the salad years and then....

EA turn round and laugh. There was no next game and now your tech and hands are tied to EA. You can't go elsewhere and EA won't use you.

You become a sitting duck and without nimble action, like setting up a shell to buy back the tech, you'd get washed away very quickly.
Rellik
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(09-21-2017, 09:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by Orpheum

EA just don't give a damn, right? this is messed up all around

It's the same for most big pubs. They're scumbags.
Snefer
Junior Member
(09-21-2017, 09:16 AM)

Originally Posted by fresquito

EA signed an exclusive deal with SMS with no intention to publish their game. SMS could not go to other publisher nor even use their own developed tech (until they bought it back through a middle enterprise they created for that reason alone).

Thats just pure conjecture. What happened was most likely that EA liked the way it was going, offered them cash in return for making sure they would keep developing games for them. The developer, instead of having some cash saved up in case of a deal going south, spent it on bonuses.

EA (for some reason, which we do not know) chose not to go forward with Shift 3. Developer spent their money, now feel fucked over. So what EA did was not really scummy, it would be scummy if the future exclusivity was part of the Shift 2 contract, but it was not, they got a separate sum as compensation for the exclusivity, which is not that bad. If the developer had not paid that out as bonuses they would be safe.
weekev
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(09-21-2017, 09:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Lord Panda

Old school hatred of EA is best type of hatred. Origin Systems, Bullfrog, Westwood, Bioware, Maxis. I will always remember you guys before the corruption.

That list of companies is basically my childhood and it's been fucked by EA. Fuck EA. Fuck Konami, why do all the big publishers have to be the worst companies.
Iced_Eagle
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(09-21-2017, 09:18 AM)
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A few minutes after that in the video, he talks about his savagery towards EA, and gives details on how they "tried" to steal their tech. This is the summary though.

The company knew the deal with EA was shady, and there were signs before they signed. However, they desperately needed to sign a deal, so had to move forwards. In the contract EA wanted them to sign, there was a clause that EA would get to keep all of the tech from the project, with the exception of third-party technology (which makes sense -- obviously EA wouldn't ever expect to own FMOD through this company).

Before the contract was signed though, they created a new company called Middleware Limited, transferred all of their tech to be under that company, and then licensed it from that company and EA had no idea. They then signed the contract. EA later tried to get the tech, but the CEO was able to give them the finger saying it was licensed from a third-party and they couldn't have it.

Fucking savage.
Jerry Orbach
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(09-21-2017, 09:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by Nirolak

Given the role Patrick Bach was in at the time, I would guess this was actually gross incompetence that was effectively akin to sabotage, though I don't think that has much meaningful difference to the studio involved.

What I mean by that is that Patrick Bach (former CEO of DICE) was put in charge of the "First Person and Racing division" and was tasked with items like "Add sim racing to the Need For Speed franchise". He does so by contracting an external developer, and then signing contracts with them so that they agree not to go to another publisher instead, and that EA at least gets to use their technology and continue on with another developer if Slightly Mad decides to head out the door, securing the business. However, the order comes down that the series is selling badly and the game is canceled, but the issue is that independent developers need six months to negotiate a contract with a new publisher, leaving Slightly Mad totally screwed unless another publisher decides to show them mercy very quickly.

The issue is that you should never sign a developer into a contract like that unless you're 100% confident you will actually publish their next game.

If anything, EA offering jobs to all the SMS developers who were about to be out of one at that point was an act of charity. They probably realized too late the unintended consequences all their boneheaded business decisions had on this vulnerable studio and were just trying to ameliorate the damage. That this would've left EA with the developers and the tech and Slightly Mad with a name and a rented office is just the kind of happy accident that lands someone a high-level executive gig in the first place. See: Putney Swope.
leeh
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(09-21-2017, 09:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by Alexander DeLarge

The deal was made before Shift 2 went into production, the 1.5 million was given as a bonus as long as they promised they wouldn't make Shift 2 and then go and have discussions with other publishers. When Shift 2 completed development, despite receiving good reviews, they said "we're not going forward with Shift 3" and tried to pull a fast one with ownership of their tech.

Originally Posted by liquidtmd

Say you start a new company. You are doing well. Promising start, good foundations, decent tech. A huge company like EA comes in with a big fat wad of cash and promise of taking you under its wing.

Sure we can pick it apart online on GAF, but in the real world...you work for years in the cold and EA offers that? Veeerrry attractive. Short term...you tie yourselves into them, you reward the staff that stayed with you during the salad years and then....

EA turn round and laugh. There was no next game and now your tech and hands are tied to EA. You can't go elsewhere and EA won't use you.

You become a sitting duck and without nimble action, like setting up a shell to buy back the tech, you'd get washed away very quickly.

I don't get both your reasonings to why this makes it better?

As a CEO, if you give money based on a handshake and not a legally binding contract which protects you from that money being withdrawn, your stupid.

Anyone who has ever worked with big businesses should know that things change. From EA's point of view, it may of been cancelled because they had capital investment from a 3rd party which was withdrawn, or higher strategy changed. Things like this aren't uncommon at all.

Regarding stealing their tech, like, yeah its shady but that's why you read the contract and protect yourself.
Last edited by leeh; 09-21-2017 at 09:24 AM.
Mooreberg
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(09-21-2017, 09:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by jackal27

EA man... Not even once.

I stopped buying games from them years ago on principal. I can't do anything about companies like this aside from refuse to give them my money.

I stopped after Battlefield 4. Biggest trash fire of a launch title I have ever dealt with. I guess it is easy for me since I do not care about sports games, despite watching both football and futbol.
JP
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(09-21-2017, 09:34 AM)
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In no way am I suggesting what EA did was correct but, whoever in Slightly Mad Studios that agreed on a contract which allowed such things to happen is also at fault for authorising what EA did.
ramparter
(09-21-2017, 09:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by UnemployedVillain

The same asshole with "I love Nintendo! My son's name is Luigi!"

Are you telling him his son isnt really named Luigi? :/
Sadist
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(09-21-2017, 09:39 AM)
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Oh, wow. That's just low.
Peterpan
Member
(09-21-2017, 09:39 AM)
The big guy trying to screw over the little guy. A story as old as time. Fuck EA though.
Durante
Come on down to Durante's drivethru PC port fixes. 15 minutes or less. Yelp: ★★★★★

Fixed Souls, Deadly Premonition, Lightning Returns, Umihara Kawase, Symphonia, Little King's Story, PhD, likes mimosas.
(09-21-2017, 09:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by Iced_Eagle

A few minutes after that in the video, he talks about his savagery towards EA, and gives details on how they "tried" to steal their tech. This is the summary though.

The company knew the deal with EA was shady, and there were signs before they signed. However, they desperately needed to sign a deal, so had to move forwards. In the contract EA wanted them to sign, there was a clause that EA would get to keep all of the tech from the project, with the exception of third-party technology (which makes sense -- obviously EA wouldn't ever expect to own FMOD through this company).

Before the contract was signed though, they created a new company called Middleware Limited, transferred all of their tech to be under that company, and then licensed it from that company and EA had no idea. They then signed the contract. EA later tried to get the tech, but the CEO was able to give them the finger saying it was licensed from a third-party and they couldn't have it.

Fucking savage.

That's actually pretty neat.
danowat
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(09-21-2017, 09:47 AM)
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Dare I risk the ire of the anti-EA brigade, but am I missing something?.

They signed the team with 1.5 million, then cancelled the game, and this nearly killed the company?, how does that work?, was it that he spunked the 1.5 million before they started on the game leaving the team in financial stress?

Not that EA aren't a corporate monster, I am just curious if there is more to this.
Phamit
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(09-21-2017, 09:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by Iced_Eagle

A few minutes after that in the video, he talks about his savagery towards EA, and gives details on how they "tried" to steal their tech. This is the summary though.

The company knew the deal with EA was shady, and there were signs before they signed. However, they desperately needed to sign a deal, so had to move forwards. In the contract EA wanted them to sign, there was a clause that EA would get to keep all of the tech from the project, with the exception of third-party technology (which makes sense -- obviously EA wouldn't ever expect to own FMOD through this company).

Before the contract was signed though, they created a new company called Middleware Limited, transferred all of their tech to be under that company, and then licensed it from that company and EA had no idea. They then signed the contract. EA later tried to get the tech, but the CEO was able to give them the finger saying it was licensed from a third-party and they couldn't have it.

Fucking savage.

They knew the deal was shady and signed the deal anyway and nearly went bankrupt? but at least EA couldn't use their tech lol
Mascot
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(09-21-2017, 09:57 AM)
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Indirectly related, but I remember reading previews for Shift where the handling, physics, FFB etc were all praised to high heaven as an excellent simulation. However, the actual game that got released felt nothing like this, and actually shipped with some very buggy car set-ups. Reviewers were baffled. I seem to remember this was due to last-minute intervention from EA's focus groups who insisted on a more arcadey feel, and SMS struggled to adapt the code in time. EA then limited the number of patches meaning that the code remained buggy and some cars were pretty much undriveable (the Zonda was one, I think).

It should have been a much better game, but EA fucked it. PC mods actually turned it into something fantastic, and back into what it should have been in the first place.

Originally Posted by danowat

Dare I risk the ire of the anti-EA brigade, but am I missing something?.

They signed the team with 1.5 million, then cancelled the game, and this nearly killed the company?, how does that work?, was it that he spunked the 1.5 million before they started on the game leaving the team in financial stress?

Not that EA aren't a corporate monster, I am just curious if there is more to this.

EA's plan all along was to steal the tech along with key employees for their own studio.
sirap
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(09-21-2017, 09:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by Phamit

They knew the deal was shady and signed the deal anyway and nearly went bankrupt? but at least EA couldn't use their tech lol

Savage.
danowat
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(09-21-2017, 10:05 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mascot

EA's plan all along was to steal the tech along with key employees for their own studio.

Yeah, OP has been edited to show that.
SatoAilDarko
Member
(09-21-2017, 10:07 AM)
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Horrible. Really feel for them.

Originally Posted by NintendosBooger

Wow.

EA is the devil.

The CEO in the video mentioned Robert "Patrick" Söderlund (EA VP) by name as the main devil behind it all.



Wasn't he the asshole doing the EA press conference at E3 this year?

I'll always remember him for all the comments every E3 about him being an android.

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