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VGLeaks Durango specs: x64 8-core CPU @1.6GHz, 8GB DDR3 + 32MB ESRAM, 50GB 6x BD...

I doubt it magically "disappears".

DMA and ESRAM are used to mitigate the problem associated with having less bandwidth, but ESRAM is incredibly tiny and according to some sources the DMA engines are helpful but not game changing.

"Magically disappear" isn't accurate, but ERP elluded that if the latency of the esram is low enough "it could offset some of the performance difference".

Not too shabby if true, but we need more information on the esram and dma engines before anyone starts claiming anything.
 
I decided to do this:

iQkzuWcIK6Li2.jpg
 

thuway

Member
It won't. People are just overreacting without having all the elements in their hands.
Was the same back in 2005/2006.

2005 and 2006 was an exact OPPOSITE scenario. PS3 was the machine with "magical Cell dust" and the Xbox was the "PC in a Box". This is a very ironic situation.
 

Derrick01

Banned
That said I can't see the Durango/Orbis struggling to run WD at 1080p/30fps.

I want to know what settings it was using though. Was it running at the same settings the E3 demo was? 1080p and 60fps doesn't mean that much to me if the rest of the stuff is on low or medium.
 

Eideka

Banned
I want to know what settings it was using though. Was it running at the same settings the E3 demo was? 1080p and 60fps doesn't mean that much to me if the rest of the stuff is on low or medium.

I would assume the game can run at the same settings as the E3 demo, seriously this is still an impressive game but we are about to enter next-generation. Such visuals are the baseline of what I would call "next-gen", it will only get better from there.
 

thuway

Member
When is VGleaks supposed to post their latest "information"? Their previous sheet was pretty accurate, minus the RAM and processor figures.
 

ekim

Member
I would assume the game can run at the same settings as the E3 demo, seriously this is still an impressive game but we are about to enter next-generation. Such visuals are the baseline of what I would call "next-gen", it will only get better from there.

I hope you are right.
 

szaromir

Banned
2005 and 2006 was an exact OPPOSITE scenario. PS3 was the machine with "magical Cell dust" and the Xbox was the "PC in a Box". This is a very ironic situation.
The situation is definitely not the exact opposite. PS3 was supposed to wipe the floor with 360 with sheer horsepower, same as PS4 now.
The difference this time around is that it's unlikely that nextbox can make up the difference with clever use of silicon like 360 did.
 
When is VGleaks supposed to post their latest "information"? Their previous sheet was pretty accurate, minus the RAM and processor figures.

Do you support also the proelite claim of compute units not being out of the GPU in a separate module?.

By the way Proelite said compute module was extra escalar units included in the GPU and already in the 1,84 tflops figure. This doesn´t match, as:
1 CU standard unit at 800mhz -without added scalar- = 102,4 GFlops.
18 CUs x 102,4 = 1,84 TFlops.

So any extra scalar units inside would make the GPU flop count bigger than that.
 

i-Lo

Member
So it looks like Nintendo are starting to tease (and show) their (beautiful) cards now. It means come E3, it is going to be almost all about MS and Sony. I think it will transcend from megaton to gigaton of an event.
 

Globox_82

Banned
So it looks like Nintendo are starting to tease (and show) their (beautiful) cards now. It means come E3, it is going to be almost all about MS and Sony. I think it will transcend from megaton to gigaton of an event.

Or could be a flopaton as well.
 

ekim

Member
I played a little bit around with the BG image on the Black Tusk Studios homepage:
bgnfugt.jpg


Are we getting a military FPS? :p
 

Aasir Osu

Neo Member
I think one thing we should clarify is that MS are not the ones promoting the idea of "special sauce". We've seen faint references here and elsewhere to MS pr, or MS damage control; but to my knowledge, it's not MS making those claims, but leakers or interested parties interpreting or mis-interpreting information they've been given. This is regardless of whatever information or direction MS has given developers - no matter what one may think of MS (or Sony or any big corp) I'm not (yet) cynical enough to believe they would lie to devs about the performance parameters of their systems; so whatever info MS has given to third parties about what can be accomplished with the Xbox3, we have to assume it's given in good faith, and in practical terms without the need for hyperbole that would be reserved for the public. I think.

It also seems obvious that the specs we are getting are the specs that MS have been targeting for a long while now (since 2011, right?). They're not total fools; they would have known two things - that the level of power being targeted would not be comparable to a PC, and that their competitors could easily target more power, if they wanted to. So, I doubt that the helper additions to the system are afterthoughts, but rather, part of the overall planned designed (and having read through this thread, I"m in the camp of thinking that some posters have indeed twisted or misinterpreted statements made by some posters; jumping to conclusions that were never implied in the first place).

Anyway, we need to accept the fact that a 1.2TF system is what we are getting, and that there will indeed be another system that's simply more powerful - without any qualifiers of "they'll be comparable, etc., etc.". It is what it is. While there will be some parity between third party games, there may well be some third party games that simply look and run better on Orbis. I'm buying a Durango regardless, and eventually if not sooner I'll get an Orbis as well.

I still find it curious that, even after the big Durango summit, we didn't catch wind of any dev complaints about the seemingly low powered hardware (or did we?). My question to that is: why not? If devs were complaining about the ram disparity (and Sony finally upped their ram amounts as a result) between the two systems, and if, as brain_stew has claimed, the 1.8TF was the planned performance target for Sony all along, then why did we not hear equally vociferous complaints about the Durango gpu, as a means of attempting to pressure MS into upping the power?
 

szaromir

Banned
I still find it curious that, even after the big Durango summit, we didn't catch wind of any dev complaints about the seemingly low powered hardware (or did we?). My question to that is: why not? If devs were complaining about the ram disparity (and Sony finally upped their ram amounts as a result) between the two systems, and if, as brain_stew has claimed, the 1.8TF was the planned performance target for Sony all along, then why did we not hear equally vociferous complaints about the Durango gpu, as a means of attempting to pressure MS into upping the power?
No one can publicly acknowledge either system exists. Complaints about PS3's memory set-up didn't really arise until PS3 was out.
 
I think one thing we should clarify is that MS are not the ones promoting the idea of "special sauce". We've seen faint references here and elsewhere to MS pr, or MS damage control; but to my knowledge, it's not MS making those claims, but leakers or interested parties interpreting or mis-interpreting information they've been given. This is regardless of whatever information or direction MS has given developers - no matter what one may think of MS (or Sony or any big corp) I'm not (yet) cynical enough to believe they would lie to devs about the performance parameters of their systems; so whatever info MS has given to third parties about what can be accomplished with the Xbox3, we have to assume it's given in good faith, and in practical terms without the need for hyperbole that would be reserved for the public. I think.

It also seems obvious that the specs we are getting are the specs that MS have been targeting for a long while now (since 2011, right?). They're not total fools; they would have known two things - that the level of power being targeted would not be comparable to a PC, and that their competitors could easily target more power, if they wanted to. So, I doubt that the helper additions to the system are afterthoughts, but rather, part of the overall planned designed (and having read through this thread, I"m in the camp of thinking that some posters have indeed twisted or misinterpreted statements made by some posters; jumping to conclusions that were never implied in the first place).

Anyway, we need to accept the fact that a 1.2TF system is what we are getting, and that there will indeed be another system that's simply more powerful - without any qualifiers of "they'll be comparable, etc., etc.". It is what it is. While there will be some parity between third party games, there may well be some third party games that simply look and run better on Orbis. I'm buying a Durango regardless, and eventually if not sooner I'll get an Orbis as well.

I still find it curious that, even after the big Durango summit, we didn't catch wind of any dev complaints about the seemingly low powered hardware (or did we?). My question to that is: why not? If devs were complaining about the ram disparity (and Sony finally upped their ram amounts as a result) between the two systems, and if, as brain_stew has claimed, the 1.8TF was the planned performance target for Sony all along, then why did we not hear equally vociferous complaints about the Durango gpu, as a means of attempting to pressure MS into upping the power?

If Microsoft where pressure to upgrade the existing hardware, shouldn't they need to delay the unit?
 

Aasir Osu

Neo Member
No one can publicly acknowledge either system exists. Complaints about PS3's memory set-up didn't really arise until PS3 was out.

Well, I know there can't be public acknowledgement, but remember; we did indeed hear rumors that devs were not happy with the PS4's planned memory amounts, and the suggestion that we've heard here is that Sony eventually relented, and as a result, we're being blessed with 4gigs of memory now. Of, course, it's entirely possible that we were going to get 4gigs anyway. But, what i was getting at was this: if there were grapevine complaints about Sony's memory, why were we not hearing equal complaints about Durango's 1.2TF GPU? This isn't an attempt on my part to suggest that the Durango GPU must be really, really, ok, because no one's complaining about it; rather, you would think that we would have gotten some negative feedback a lot sooner about the power deficiency in relation to Sony's targeted all-along teraflop performance.
 

Aasir Osu

Neo Member
If Microsoft where pressure to upgrade the existing hardware, shouldn't they need to delay the unit?

The thing is, I would hope they wouldn't have waited until 2012 (the Durango summit) to give third parties a feel of what to expect - unless i"m underestimating the amount of lead time needed to develop games. So, third parties would have been aware of targets even before the summit. It seems like the could have let their feelings be known, and the option of upgrading as a result could have been on the table - maybe not as easy to change as ram, admittedly.

Then again, maybe they did let their disappointment (if it even exists, which is another part of my point) show, and the 4 DME's are a result of that, and not planned all along as I originally suggested?
 

AgentP

Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
I still find it curious that, even after the big Durango summit, we didn't catch wind of any dev complaints about the seemingly low powered hardware (or did we?). My question to that is: why not? If devs were complaining about the ram disparity (and Sony finally upped their ram amounts as a result) between the two systems, and if, as brain_stew has claimed, the 1.8TF was the planned performance target for Sony all along, then why did we not hear equally vociferous complaints about the Durango gpu, as a means of attempting to pressure MS into upping the power?

Maybe MS told them the truth? Kinect and non-traditional interfaces will be more important than graphics? MS saw the Wii clean house last gen with under powered hardware and a fresh idea. Then this gen they saw how Kinect took off with the same crowd. They made a business decision to go for a bigger net, not a fancy pole. What the devs want is irrelevant, they make games for what exists, unless they want to make their own box.

Now it could also turn out they made the call at the height of the Kinect craze, which didn't last long, but Kinect 2.0 could be something much more useful and integrated. I personally don't want to wave my hands around or talk to my console, but I'm a grumpy old guy and the market for the young and adventurous is larger.
 

eso76

Member
WOOOO awesome news for FM !

and

BOOOO for the next big thing being a sci fi shooter.
Wtf, Microsoft ? you finally cook a new IP and it's yet another sci fi shooter for god's sake ?
 

Sorc3r3r

Member
I think one thing we should clarify is that MS are not the ones promoting the idea of "special sauce". We've seen faint references here and elsewhere to MS pr, or MS damage control; but to my knowledge, it's not MS making those claims, but leakers or interested parties interpreting or mis-interpreting information they've been given. This is regardless of whatever information or direction MS has given developers - no matter what one may think of MS (or Sony or any big corp) I'm not (yet) cynical enough to believe they would lie to devs about the performance parameters of their systems; so whatever info MS has given to third parties about what can be accomplished with the Xbox3, we have to assume it's given in good faith, and in practical terms without the need for hyperbole that would be reserved for the public. I think.

It also seems obvious that the specs we are getting are the specs that MS have been targeting for a long while now (since 2011, right?). They're not total fools; they would have known two things - that the level of power being targeted would not be comparable to a PC, and that their competitors could easily target more power, if they wanted to. So, I doubt that the helper additions to the system are afterthoughts, but rather, part of the overall planned designed (and having read through this thread, I"m in the camp of thinking that some posters have indeed twisted or misinterpreted statements made by some posters; jumping to conclusions that were never implied in the first place).

Anyway, we need to accept the fact that a 1.2TF system is what we are getting, and that there will indeed be another system that's simply more powerful - without any qualifiers of "they'll be comparable, etc., etc.". It is what it is. While there will be some parity between third party games, there may well be some third party games that simply look and run better on Orbis. I'm buying a Durango regardless, and eventually if not sooner I'll get an Orbis as well.

I still find it curious that, even after the big Durango summit, we didn't catch wind of any dev complaints about the seemingly low powered hardware (or did we?). My question to that is: why not? If devs were complaining about the ram disparity (and Sony finally upped their ram amounts as a result) between the two systems, and if, as brain_stew has claimed, the 1.8TF was the planned performance target for Sony all along, then why did we not hear equally vociferous complaints about the Durango gpu, as a means of attempting to pressure MS into upping the power?

We hear just rumors... so any speculation on who upgraded or not is difficult.
But to try to answer to your question, 3rd parties will adapt their game on what the console maker gives to them and will be very possible that external games will be very very similar since they will develop for the less powerful system, and to optimize for the more capable will take resources(money) and it will be hardly done, so why complain?
The focus is making money and they can with this kind of ecosystem: the power difference is beareable.

In this scenario(very similar perfoming 3rd party games) to me , instead, will be important kinect, it will add, if pushed by Microsoft, a level of "exclusivity" to the 3rd party games and could be an important(spendable) differentiation from the Sony console.

I find MS strategy pretty interesting it's a gamble in some way, but they can win it.
 
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