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Ben & Jerry's drops fortune cookies from 'Lin-Sanity'

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N

nib95

Banned
Count Dookkake said:
Irrelevant.
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Not at all. Reason I asked was because he took issue to the idea of the term being insensitive. But it was never going to be insensitive to him was it? But to Asian's. In that sense he has to broaden his viewpoint of such terminology and try and consider the feelings of others, and not just himself.


With respect to the article itself. It doesn't help that the "chink" in question, was Lin himself. So it's indirectly referring to Lin as the Chink. I'd say that was pretty damn questionable.
 
C

Count Dookkake

Member
nib95 said:
Not at all. Reason I asked was because he took issue to the idea of the term being insensitive. But it was never going to be insensitive to him was it? But to Asian's. In that sense he has to broaden his viewpoint of such terminology and try and consider the feelings of others, and not just himself.
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No. The "You wouldn't understand" argument is a losing one. Always.
 
L

Loofy

Member
Vire said:
Yes it is, however used in the context of Jeremy Lin, it becomes something questionably racist.
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If they were gonna use the term on a white or black player, but then stopped when referring to asian players.

Isnt that Reverse Racism?
 
Vire

Vire

Member
nib95 said:
Not at all. Reason I asked was because he took issue to the idea of the term being insensitive. But it was never going to be insensitive to him was it? But to Asian's. In that sense he has to broaden his viewpoint of such terminology and try and consider the feelings of others, and not just himself.


With respect to the article itself. It doesn't help that the "chink" in question, was Lin himself. So it's indirectly referring to Lin as the Chink. I'd say that was pretty damn questionable.
Click to expand...

I'm a Jewish American and if they made a Matzo based ice cream flavor and named it after me, I'd be flattered. But that's just me personally.
 
I

Instro

Member
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
The thing is, though, that many people are not making the argument on the basis that the headline is from a website that always uses bad puns in its headlines, which is somewhat reasonable. They're arguing that using "chink in the armor" with regard to an Asian person is inherently insensitive, which is what I take issue with.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it be the equivalent of running a headline such as "The Heat show a niggardly defense" with a Lebron James image to go with it? The word isn't inherently racist, but few people would be comfortable with it.
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
nib95 said:
Not at all. Reason I asked was because he took issue to the idea of the term being insensitive. But it was never going to be insensitive to him was it? But to Asian's. In that sense he has to broaden his viewpoint of such terminology and try and consider the feelings of others, and not just himself.


With respect to the article itself. It doesn't help that the "chink" in question, was Lin himself. So it's indirectly referring to Lin as the Chink. I'd say that was pretty damn questionable.
Click to expand...

Newsflash: Though I'm not part of a disparaged class of people, I still take offense in instances of actual racism. The difference is that I don't think that somebody taking offense necessarily means anything, or that being "sensitive" necessarily has any value. What I'm calling attention to is the tendency for people to actively LOOK for racially/ethnically insensitive things, which a) only perpetuates the very sorts of thinking that they're trying to undo, and b) cheapens actual instances of prejudice.

Edit: Thank you, Count. The "you can't understand" argument always gets under my skin, as it assumes that people are incapable of empathy. If the actual editor intended to call Lin a chink in a duplicitous manner, then fuck him. If, however, I describe Jet Li or Ken Jeong or somebody as the "chink in a film's armor" because their performance are poor, then I couldn't care less if some putz somewhere takes offense to something clearly non-racial just because their brain plays free association with language.
 
C

Count Dookkake

Member
Instro said:
Wouldn't it be the equivalent of running a headline such as "The Heat show a niggardly defense" with a Lebron James image to go with it? The word isn't inherently racist, but few people would be comfortable with it.
Click to expand...

Analogy needs to be refined to having Lebron being one of the few black NBA players.
 
K

Kurtofan

Member
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
a) only perpetuates the very sorts of thinking that they're trying to undo, and b) cheapens actual instances of prejudice.
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How?How does pointing out cultural insensivity somehow perpetuates racism?
Racism apologist will stay racist no matter what but it might lead ignorant persons to be more culturally sensitive.

And I don't see how it cheapens "real" prejudice.There's no real and false prejudice, there's only prejudice.


Loofy said:
Why would race even be brought up?
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"Chink" is a racial slur targeting Asian people.
 
N

nib95

Banned
Count Dookkake said:
No. The "You wouldn't understand" argument is a losing one. Always.
Click to expand...

I don't believe it is at all. It's just one a lot of un-sympathetic, often racist people like to downplay. I've heard it from so many people throughout my life. Always to defend something that was inherently offensive. Truth is, it is hard understand till you are on the opposite end.

I'm sure if White people went to China or whatever, they'd have exactly the same issues. And exactly the same sort of arguments would come up from both sides. But the White person on the receiving end is always inevitably going to have a more raw and personal take on it, usually based on direct negative experiences.
 
Vire

Vire

Member
The more bothersome thing I've heard in regards to Jeremy Lin was when sports announcers refer to him as "surprisingly quick or agile". It's like surprisingly? What's the supposed to mean haha.

Whatever, I don't sweat this kind of stuff too much. Just grow some thick skin.

lethial said:
Or ice cream INSIDE the fortune cookie?
Click to expand...

Fuuuuu
 
E

ElectricBlue187

Member
Fucking bullshit I'm going to buy some fortune cookies and mix them in and then YouTube myself enjoying it with a huge shit eating grin on my face. Fuck you PC nazis
 
H

hulot

Member
EatinOlives said:
What I'm talking about is the fact that completely random words are now so "racially charged" that people get offended over things that aren't even meant to be offensive in the first place. "Chink in the armor", like a whole lot of people in this topic have said, is a completely racially neutral phrase that doesn't in any way intend to offend. It's exactly about intent.
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Where are you from and what's your ethnic background?

Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
Why should I have to avoid using something that's clearly innocuous in terms of its context just because people might possibly maybe perchance perceive it as racially insensitive? That's not ignorance, that's expecting people to think for even a second about the context in which a phrase was used.
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Where are you from and what's your ethnic background?

If we were all in a pickup game and any one of you called me a chink in the armor, I'd knock you out. Born and raised in New York City, I have personally never heard or used the phrase "chink in the armor" in any real life context among friends, coworkers, classmates, etc. but I have heard chink addressed to me all my life in a derogatory manner.

And seriously, before any of this goes any further, divulge your ethnicity and your hometown because I find that these anti-PC arguments are never really on any intellectual level that they're dressed up to be but really a symptom of cultural ignorance.
 
C

Count Dookkake

Member
nib95 said:
I don't believe it is at all. It's just one a lot of un-sympathetic, often racist people like to downplay. I've heard it from so many people throughout my life. Always to defend something that was inherently offensive. Truth is, it is hard understand till you are on the opposite end.

I'm sure if White people went to China or whatever, they'd have exactly the same issues. And exactly the same sort of arguments would come up from both sides. But the White person on the receiving end is always inevitably going to have a more raw and personal take on it, usually based on direct negative experiences.
Click to expand...

You don't have to believe it, but everyone else hears a loser argument.

It's better to explain, than to say "you wouldn't understand."

If you can't explain, then maybe you don't have a point.
 
I

Instro

Member
Vire said:
The more bothersome thing I've heard in regards to Jeremy Lin was when sports announcers refer to him as "surprisingly quick or agile". It's like surprisingly? What's the supposed to mean haha.

Whatever, I don't sweat this kind of stuff too much. Just grow some thick skin.
Click to expand...

Actually Lin himself was annoyed by people/announcers saying that iirc.
 
L

Loofy

Member
Orayn said:
No, that's you being willfully blind to context. Go be dumb somewhere else.
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Either 'chink in the armor' is a racist phrase(in any context) or it isnt. Saying 'we can only use chink in the armor when referring to non asian players' is an incredibly retarded rule. When you make asians 'special' then yes thats reverse racism.

Instro said:
Wouldn't it be the equivalent of running a headline such as "The Heat show a niggardly defense" with a Lebron James image to go with it? The word isn't inherently racist, but few people would be comfortable with it.
Click to expand...
That would be racist cause Im pretty sure 'niggardly defense' isnt a common phrase and sounds stupid to begin with.
 
G

goodfella

Member
Well I just read the first page but wow. People justifying racism on GAF?

It would be no different from playing into stereotypes of another race. I'd like to hear justification for an ice cream that had fried chicken in it, and a headline that had nigger in it.
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
Hulot: I freely admit that I'm white and from the Midwest, and I've heard "chink in the armor" used in real world contexts fairly often my whole life. If you'll knock me out for using an expression common to my background without racial intent, then that's your problem, not mine.

Kurtofan: the difference is that "chink" in the context of "chink in the armor" doesn't actually disparage anybody for their race, at least not in most contexts. I don't feel the need to be sensitive to a racial dimension that won't exist 99% of the time that that phrase is used.

Edit: Or, to put it differently: to read race into something of MY linguistic background is insensitive to me, in its own way.
 
O

Orayn

Member
Loofy said:
Either 'chink in the armor' is a racist phrase(in any context) or it isnt. Saying 'we can only use chink in the armor when referring to non asian players' is an incredibly retarded rule. When you make asians 'special' then yes that reverse racism.
Click to expand...

CONTEXT DOES NOT EXIST. CONTEXT DOES NOT EXIST. CONTEXT DOES NOT EXIST. CONTEXT DOES NOT EXIST. CONTEXT DOES NOT EXIST.
 
M

MilesWebber

Member
goodfella said:
Well I just read the first page but wow. People justifying racism on GAF?

It would be no different from playing into stereotypes of another race. I'd like to hear justification for an ice cream that had fried chicken in it, and a headline that had nigger in it.
Click to expand...

icw5FeIBm72FK.gif


Are you really that supplies?
 
K

Kurtofan

Member
Loofy said:
Either 'chink in the armor' is a racist phrase(in any context) or it isnt. Saying 'we can only use chink in the armor when referring to non asian players' is an incredibly retarded rule. When you make asians 'special' then yes thats reverse racism.
Click to expand...

Words don't work that way.There's not a single meaning for each word that fits into all situations.
Context is crucial.
 
J

jim-jam bongs

Member
nib95 said:
I don't believe it is at all. It's just one a lot of un-sympathetic, often racist people like to downplay. I've heard it from so many people throughout my life. Always to defend something that was inherently offensive. Truth is, it is hard understand till you are on the opposite end.
Click to expand...

On the opposite end of what exactly? Racism isn't the only form of attack a person can experience, and it's not as unique as you would like to make it out to be. Nearly everyone has some experience with being targeted and/or discriminated against by other people for whatever reason, so this dismissive attitude you're affecting actually indicates that you understand the situation less than the people you're arguing with.

nib95 said:
I'm sure if White people went to China or whatever, they'd have exactly the same issues. And exactly the same sort of arguments would come up from both sides. But the White person on the receiving end is always inevitably going to have a more raw and personal take on it, usually based on direct negative experiences.
Click to expand...

I'm white and I've traveled to every continent on this planet except Antarctica. And yes I've experienced racism. That doesn't mean I agree with you though.
 
L

Loofy

Member
Kurtofan said:
Words don't work that way.There's not a single meaning for each word that fits into all situations.
Context is crucial.
Click to expand...
'Nigger rigging' is a racist term no matter what context.
While 'Chink in the armor' varies depending on the context. Thats ridiculous.
 
O

Orayn

Member
Loofy said:
'Nigger rigging' is a racist term no matter what context.
While 'Chink in the armor' varies depending on the context. Thats ridiculous.
Click to expand...

"Chink" can refer to a small gap or slit. Derived from that, it's also been used as a racial slur against Asian people.

OH MY GOD WORDS CAN HAVE MORE THAN ONE MEANING WHAT THE FUCK

MY ENTIRE WORLDVIEW IS COLLAPSING

FUCK

FUCK

FUCK
 
J

jim-jam bongs

Member
Loofy said:
'Nigger rigging' is a racist term no matter what context.
While 'Chink in the armor' varies depending on the context. Thats ridiculous.
Click to expand...

"Chink" in this context would be more analogous to "queer" in that it has multiple meanings. You can't see how the word queer might be totally innocuous until used as a pejorative?
 
L

Loofy

Member
Orayn said:
"Chink" can refer to a small gap or slit. Derived from that, it's also been used as a racial slur against Asian people.
Click to expand...
"Chink" can refer to a small gap or slit. Unless your writing about something that may be associated with an asian where race isnt even the topic.

Great reasoning there.
 
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