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Wii U Thread - Now in HD!

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blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
But developers have had access to compute shaders through ATI Stream, CUDA, and OpenCL before DX11, what about DX11 level shader hardware would effect developers' ability to use compute shaders in Nintendo's API anyway? Wouldn't they just roll their own that's closer to the metal? (hope I don't sound like someone clueless pretending they know what they're talking about here, heh)
DX11 compute shaders introduce some new ops to the established compute paradigms (and some new buffer goodies), but that's about it.

Would it ever be a good idea to use tessellation on 'flat' surfaces...?
Actually, there are some very clever mesh compression algorithms that use tessellation to reconstruct arbitrary shapes from generic planes and a displacement map.
 

Yuripaw

Banned
Wait so what time on the 13th is this Nintendo conference happening at? I remember reading somewhere that it was 10am PST...which would make it 1pm EST.

I live in the central time zone, and that would place it at about noon that it's happening, and I've noticed some people on here speculating that preorders might start on the 13th also during the conference? That just doesn't seem likely to me, because the store near where I live opens at 9am, which would be 3 hours before any details are announced.

Having once worked at a gamestop before, I know for a fact that preorders are never added midday. They only get added between business days, and it would just seem weird to me that they would start taking preorders before any official announcements were revealed. The following day makes more sense.
 

JohnTinker

Limbaugh Parrot
Watched some of the recent videos of NSBMU. Looks fantastic, sounds like the same old tired tunes and themes, getting sick of it now. Wish they would use the same amount of effort they did with the Galaxy soundtracks. Feels like they're just mailing it in at this point
 

onilink88

Member
Not quite. There's just a question of who owns the IP. It's likely Namco, which complicates things, but that doesn't kill any chance for another installment. It's also a very dear franchise to Honne and Koh Kojima, so I wouldn't be surprised if we saw something from it eventually, if a digital release of the first two or something on the 3DS.

I see. I wasn't briefed on the exact circumstances of the series' status when I was told it was "dead". Question: is Honne currently working in Monolith's Tokyo office?
 

Stewox

Banned
I'd understand the complaints coming from the Bethesda and id camps if they actually set foot in Nintendo's enviroments for once. If third parties can't even dip their toes then they shouldn't bother saying anything. At least Ubisoft, Capcom and EA give Nintendo consoles a go. It's better than sitting through another excuse from Konami or Rockstar while their sales and pools of customers shrink.

There's a good advice that when you have no full idea and research you don't talk about it.

Seems like Carmack knows this advice well.

Pete Hines speaks generally for Bethesda Softworks, and also sometimes a load of bullcrap.

How the news was reported and how he said it was very, i should say, sneaky.

Truth is, i already told here Carmack wanted to make WiiU version of Doom3BFG, but it was Zenimax is actually marching them to use all dev resources for Doom4 so there's nobody, people have been pulled from other project such as mobile(which as totally stopped) to join Doom4 team.

And maybe that's because Zenimax doesn't have marketing strategy they terribly need before they can go release a game (which also made that Rage MAC version would have not happend if it wasn't for Carmack pushing for it), they won't get any strategy just sitting around, it's like waiting for someone else to make a working scheme off which they can copycat, everyone's waiting for everyone, ubisoft will immensly take the advantage of being early in the console's lifecycle as those games will be remembered and will create a presnece in the market.

Doom3 BFG is absolutely huge opportunity to make an ID presence on WiiU by which people will remember, and enable Carmack to talk more deeper about the hardware and research on what the console really is.
 

Stewox

Banned
Hang on. Does Metroid Blast support infrared aiming? I'm getting conflicting reports.

Nintendo doesn't make analog stick FPSs anymore. They've talked about it last year, the idea of WiiU Zapper fill finaly shine like it supposed to.

That really depends. Compute Shader support in 10.1 is practically useless and wouldnt really be worth the effort but we know Compute Shaders are in.

WiiU doesn't use DX10.1
 

marc^o^

Nintendo's Pro Bono PR Firm
Pretty poor tbh, for such an important product for them.
That's right, they should have loaded launch with 1st party games, killed 3rd party chances to be successful on the platform, and then suffer a drought for the rest of the year.

Much clever than launching with few sequels to their best system sellers.
 

Coolwhip

Banned
That's right, they should have loaded launch with 1st party games, killed 3rd party chances to be successful on the platform, and then suffer a drought for the rest of the year.

Much clever than launching with few sequels to their best system sellers.

Yeah all those 3rd party blockbuster games need to have a chance...
 

D-e-f-

Banned
Way to go, ignoring Lego City Undercover in the first party lineup (also published by Nintendo ... if you list Ninja Gaiden 3, then you have to list this one as well).
 

DjRoomba

Banned
Pretty poor tbh, for such an important product for them.

Oh please. Every product they release is important for them. Pikmin 3 and New Super Mario sequel ARE pretty big titles for them. But I do get the dissapointment at the lack of that new innovative AAA title that all other Nintendo systems have launched with. Im pro Nintendoland, but it certainly aint that.
 

AzaK

Member
Pretty much. It's all speculation at this point, but if the rumours are accurately it seems Nintendo was/is primarily targeting a 10.1 equivalent GPU, and buckled to developer requests to 'modernise' it. The extent of that modernisation, if it happened at all, will dictate the efficiency and usefulness of GPU compute functions, and thus tessellation and all those other DX11 equivalent goodies.

I'm taking the cynical/pessimistic stance because, as far as I'm aware, documentation still classifies the GPU as DX10.1 comparable, and though it's possible DX11 equivalent compute support is documented separately for some reason and Nintendo never bothered to update the listed API beyond primarily 10.1, I'm not going to get my hopes up or excited over something I simply don't know.

When did we hear about this buckling?


I didn't say that.

By the same logic, I have little faith in humanity as a whole, but since I lack vital information to make a judgment about every single person, I give benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I would be unnecessarily cynical.

You have little faith in Nintendo to produce anything beyond the barest of bones, but since you lack vital information to make a judgment about any aspect of the design of this hardware (like what their target price is), you SHOULD give benefit of the doubt, as evidence prior to Wii suggests they don't cheap out just for the sake of it. Otherwise, you would be unnecessarily cynical.

Well, if someone keeps kicking me in the nuts every time I say the words "Thunder Monkey" is it unreasonable to think that the next time I say "Thunder Monkey" I will get kicked in the nuts, even if I have no information to tell me that they have put their nut kicking shoes on? I would suggest that almost EVERYTHING I have heard about Wii U has yet again indicated that Nintendo are going for lower cost over anything else (With certain requirements of course, like a touch screen controller). Now I'm not saying that overall that's a bad thing; if we get a next gen console with touch screen for $250 that would be amazing. However, wrt DX 10.1 vs 11, if I have no information on either side of a topic relating to Nintendo I don't think it's unreasonable to guess that they'll take the cheaper route. Again I'll reiterate that I can quite easily see that given the fact you can do tessellation on DX 10.1, and Nintendo's lack of priority for cutting edge graphical features (It's about games after all) that Nintendo would not prioritise DX 11 features if it could save them money.

you SHOULD give benefit of the doubt
For the last 14 months we've all given Nintendo the "benefit" of the doubt and we got E3 2011 and 2012.


as evidence prior to Wii suggests they don't cheap out just for the sake of it
My understanding (and I'm OK with being proven wrong) is that Nintendo have always "cheaped out". They work on the philosophy of withered technology and use cost effective parts to hit a more mass market pricing. It's just that until this generation most competitors either did the same, or Nintendo was leapfrogging them (Sort of like Wii U) where they could bring out hardware after the competition so it would naturally be more powerful, but still "cheap".
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
When did we hear about this buckling?

From memory (I could be wrong) one of the older rumours was that Nintendo asked for hardware feedback, and developers made suggestions to 'modernise' the GPU feature set, which Nintendo went forward with to some degree. But that's one of those things that even if true it's really impossible to know just what those feature sets were, what Nintendo did, their efficiency, and so on. They may have done nothing, something, everything...*shrug*.
 

jacksrb

Member
WiiFit U will surely be a launch game with a strong push on eshop.

I could see them putting this out right after/right before Christmas to take advantage of the New Year's resolutions regarding fitness...

Also, I would guess that the first party publishing lineup would look something like:

- NSMBU - launch
- NintendoLand - launch
- NG3: Razor's Edge - launch
- Pikmin 3 - Dec 10th or 17th
- Wii Fit U - Dec 30th (Sunday after Christmas) or Jan 7th
- Lego City Undercover - Jan - Feb
- Sing Party - February
- Project P-100 - March
 

Pineconn

Member
Way to go, ignoring Lego City Undercover in the first party lineup (also published by Nintendo ... if you list Ninja Gaiden 3, then you have to list this one as well).

Man, I keep on forgetting about that game. Perhaps that's a good thing since it needed a lot of work back at its E3 state.
 

dancmc

Member
I could see them putting this out right after/right before Christmas to take advantage of the New Year's resolutions regarding fitness...

Also, I would guess that the first party publishing lineup would look something like:

- NSMBU - launch
- NintendoLand - launch
- NG3: Razor's Edge - launch
- Pikmin 3 - Dec 10th or 17th
- Wii Fit U - Dec 30th (Sunday after Christmas) or Jan 7th
- Lego City Undercover - Jan - Feb
- Sing Party - February
- Project P-100 - March

Was really hoping that Pikmin and Rayman were launch titles. But the GI article seems to point out that they are launch window + beyond and we all know what companies consider launch windows. :(
 
But developers have had access to compute shaders through ATI Stream, CUDA, and OpenCL before DX11, what about DX11 level shader hardware would effect developers' ability to use compute shaders in Nintendo's API anyway? Wouldn't they just roll their own that's closer to the metal? (hope I don't sound like someone clueless pretending they know what they're talking about here, heh)

That's not quite right. Compute Shaders are in the group (that you listed) of how to use a GPU for general processing, not something that's been around that those others can access.

When did we hear about this buckling?

I wouldn't use the word buckling, but that specifically came from everyone's favorite Li Mu Bai during a run of posts talking about GPU customizations and how it could affect games.. There had been mentions in the past before that of Nintendo being open and taking input from 3rd parties (I remember Tecmo specifically), but other than online it wasn't specific. Though it was rather easy to assume it dealt with the hardware in some fashion as that was about the only other thing left.

Plus since this comment is pretty old now (Dec. '11), I'll share one of the things said to me back then about the GPU.

Well, I can't reveal too much. The performance target is still more or less the same as the last review from around E3. Now it's more balanced and "2012" now that it's nearer to complete and now AMD is providing proper stuff. As far as specs, I don't see any big change for better or worse, other than said cost/performance balance tweaks... It won't make a significant difference to the end user. As far as the kit goes, it's almost like what MS went through. Except more Japanese-ish... If you know what I mean.
 

ozfunghi

Member
From memory (I could be wrong) one of the older rumours was that Nintendo asked for hardware feedback, and developers made suggestions to 'modernise' the GPU feature set, which Nintendo went forward with to some degree. But that's one of those things that even if true it's really impossible to know just what those feature sets were, what Nintendo did, their efficiency, and so on. They may have done nothing, something, everything...*shrug*.

Didn't we already hear from developers that Nintendo listened to at least "some" of their complaints regarding hardware?

Wasn't there an article two/three months ago that stated WiiU GPU had DX11 level features, but DX 10 level "power" or something along those lines? The journalist had this straight from certain devs. I remember one of the thread trolls (also on B3D) purposely misinterpreting this.

Since Nintendo is getting a custom chip, and won't be relying on DX, why would they even opt for the DX10.1 tesselator if it is useless anyway? They would be cheaper off leaving it out entirely, i presume? If they are going to spend money, i would guess it's going to be on something that's worth it.
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
I'm happy about Mario U and Land GI news!
I think that N did a mistake entering the "ninja mode" after E3, not revealing any additional info and not releasing any new video about their games.
I'm day after day more convinced that tha launch window has various interesting titles but they are managing in the wrong way the promotion and the communication (both keeping secret the 2013 titles in development without any trailer or teaser and letting us look at launch titles just with E3 limited demoes)
 

wsippel

Banned
From memory (I could be wrong) one of the older rumours was that Nintendo asked for hardware feedback, and developers made suggestions to 'modernise' the GPU feature set, which Nintendo went forward with to some degree. But that's one of those things that even if true it's really impossible to know just what those feature sets were, what Nintendo did, their efficiency, and so on. They may have done nothing, something, everything...*shrug*.
The only thing we more or less know is that AMD started working on the chip in mid 2009, which explains the R700 baseline, but work didn't finish until at least mid 2011. And we have this statement from Golem.de (large German IT site):

Wie AMD Golem.de sagte, wird auch die GPU der Wii U wieder von diesem Chiphersteller stammen. Es handelt sich um eine Spezialanfertigung nach Anforderungen von Nintendo, nicht um eine Ableitung eines aktuellen Radeon-Chips, teilte ein Sprecher von AMD mit.
http://www.golem.de/1106/84082.html

Basically, AMD told Golem.de that the GPU is a custom design created specifically for Nintendo, not just a modified version of any off-the-shelf Radeon.
 

D-e-f-

Banned
Might be old but didnt get any result using the search :p.

Just went to amazon.es and seems they have the Wii U with a Price tag of ~360€ , and decemeber 21th as the launch date:

http://www.amazon.es/gp/product/B0088NQ76W/

yea this is weeks old by now, we've moved on to other rumors in the meantime :)

Except if the market buying Wii U isn't buying the game. In which case, the size of the userbase won't mean anything.

Which you can't know without putting the game out ...

Btw, you people with your "Wii U / random game should come out between Xmas and New Year" are just plain crazy lol

There's a good reason NOTHING comes out during that time.
 
Didn't we already hear from developers that Nintendo listened to at least "some" of their complaints regarding hardware?

Wasn't there an article two/three months ago that stated WiiU GPU had DX11 level features, but DX 10 level "power" or something along those lines? The journalist had this straight from certain devs. I remember one of the thread trolls (also on B3D) purposely misinterpreting this.

Since Nintendo is getting a custom chip, and won't be relying on DX, why would they even opt for the DX10.1 tesselator if it is useless anyway? They would be cheaper off leaving it out entirely, i presume? If they are going to spend money, i would guess it's going to be on something that's worth it.

Yes. A confusing article due to the word choice. I think it was from Kotaku.

Secondly, DX10.1-level (key word) tessellator. The tessellator is not a DX-exclusive component. AMD, I believe (at least compared to nVidia), was the first to include a tessellator into their GPUs. And if I remember correctly not even the first DX11-level tessellators from them were considered good. Again going off of memory of my past posts, I think it needed at worst the same generation tessellator used in the Cayman GPUs and they were on the market in 2010. It would be stupid on their part to leave something like that off considering their own admitted desires for third-party support.
 

Somnia

Member
For those saying reserves can't start midday at gamestop... Its happened in the past.

What they'll do is put generic no name, no price skus (item ids) into the system and then email stores to manually punch them in that day. The next day they'll be renamed and priced.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Maybe not, but hopefully it means we get either the motherload in 2013, or a steady stream of great first party games every 2-4 months.

Still. I find it odd. On the N64 you had Mario 64. On Gamecube you had Waverace. Wii brought us Wii Sports - a fantastic collection of games. And on WiiU we have err.... a 2D mario game.

I don't expect a motherload in 2013 either. I fully expect the normal drip drip of first party titles over the next coming years.
 

D-e-f-

Banned
Whats this doom 3 wii u thing?

Nothing. And that's the problem :)

---

So, I might've missed this but it's news to me:

http://www.capcom-unity.com/ask_capcom/go/thread/view/7371/29348785/Why_no_RE_6_on_Wii_U.?pg=2

From the "Why no RE6 on Wii U?" thread ... ->

re6wiiugqzig.jpg


So that's the latest on that game. Still doesn't mean it's not coming, Svensson isn't even clearly saying it's not coming. I still expect at least a late port of the game. 'Cause this time, the Wii U can most definitely handle at least the start-menu ... *cough*
 
So, I might've missed this but it's news to me:

http://www.capcom-unity.com/ask_capcom/go/thread/view/7371/29348785/Why_no_RE_6_on_Wii_U.?pg=2

From the "Why no RE6 on Wii U?" thread ... ->

http://www.abload.de/img/re6wiiugqzig.jpg

So that's the latest on that game. Still doesn't mean it's not coming, Svensson isn't even clearly saying it's not coming. I still expect at least a late port of the game. 'Cause this time, the Wii U can most definitely handle at least the start-menu ... *cough*

Why would you want it though? It looks even more insulting than 5. It'd be good news if they actually made an original game in the vein of Revelations. Shit, even some enhanced port of that would be more uplifting than 6.
 

D-e-f-

Banned
Why would you want it though? It looks even more insulting than 5. It'd be good news if they actually made an original game in the vein of Revelations. Shit, even some enhanced port of that would be more uplifting than 6.

As I said earlier, the preview reactions were extremely disappointing so my hype died down almost completely but I ultimately wanna try the game anyway. Might as well do that on the Wii U once I reach that point. Even though I hate what RE5 has done to Resident Evil, I have played that game to death when it came out and got all the Trophies for some stupid reason. RE6 may or may not serve the same purpose while again failing as a Resident Evil title.
 
I haven't seen much of the game, but after Revelations I just assumed RE6 would be awesome. I'll wait until the game is out before judging it, though from what I've heard they've shown a lot of it, so maybe the naysayers are right.

I think Zombie U will show Capcom how a resident evil might be done on the Wii U. Imagine puzzle solving in real time as zombies are at the door using the tablet as a second game screen to solve puzzles on the fly while teeing off on some undead.
 
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