TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Eh, Josh wasn't impressive with his answers either.
Paul just had more on the line and bumbled that part completely.
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Big Brother 19 |OT| Fake Apples, Real Snakes
- Thread starter cory64
- Start date
Paul just had more on the line and bumbled that part completely.
Amanda Kimmel too
Amanda is NOTHING like that, she's just very very bad at jury speeches and answering questions.
I just watched it and LOL. Paul thought he had it in the bag and then they got to Mark. You can actually see the moment he realizes that he's fucked which is hilarious. You can also see that he was surprised that Alex and Jason didn't vote for him.
I didn't like how he said Josh's messages were cowardly when he had Josh be his rabid dog all season to do his dirty work, which was actually cowardly.
I didn't like how he said Josh's messages were cowardly when he had Josh be his rabid dog all season to do his dirty work, which was actually cowardly.
Orbis Tabula
Member
I really wonder about this. Raven just coming in and being sooooooooo obnoxiously pro-Paul that they go "Fuck her, and fuck him."
She wasn't really a bully, no, but every other bullet point applies.
If they allowed Raven to influence how they voted, they're even worse than she is.
Scofield94941
Member
yeah it was weird to call telling the truth cowardly when he legit lied in his goodbye messages to hide the fact he was doing all the work. He then continued to lie in the question segments and ultimately sunk his game for good. I believe they came up with the plan for either Christmas or Josh to win before any of this happened. When Cody went to vote he said "I stick to my word" or something to that effect. Cody, Mark/Elena, and Jason/Alex prob made a deal to not make Paul win. As a huge fan of Big Brother, and lover of all things backstabbing (wanted Dan Gheesling to win BB14) Im actually ok with Paul not winning.
He did play the best game, he controlled everyone and everything. Every other player that has backstabbed, betrayed, etc.. did it without having a 12 person alliance, and had everyone come to them for advice. Why did they come to him for advice? Because week 1 he was given power (choose who gets friendship braclets) and safety. Cody who saw who this guy was wanted him out. He takes a shot, and Paul says he is safe for 3 weeks. The house immediately jumped on Pauls dick knowing this guy is safe for 3 weeks and is pretty much a production pet. They gave all their tickets to Paul in the HOH comp to get rid of Cody
Then it was basically the whole house led by Paul trying to get rid of Cody/Jessica. They finally did it (after cody coming back once) and then Paul led the house to get rid of Elena/Mark. It was tough but did it. At this point the remaining houseguests drank the Paul brainwash juice and saw him as someone with power and knowledge, and the fact that he made them believe he was their number one ally. Pauls biggest mistake was trying so hard not to get blood on his hands, talk people into throwing, voting, and winning for him. What he didnt realize was that in the end, people will find out what you did when they are out of your control. When that happened the 5 jury members Cody, Mark/Elena, Jason/Alex felt like this guy did not deserve their vote for just being straight up shady.
Paul was so worked up about making the perfect final 3 for himself that he forgot about the jury and the variables that came with it (such as Josh's contradicting goodbye messages). All he needed to do was make sure Jason/Alex were ok with him and he fucked it up. He was so afraid of them beating him in the end, it ended up beating him in the end in terms of votes anyway. It was a tricky jury since there were couples. Jason/Alex , Matt/Raven, Mark/Elena. He treated 2 out of the 3 couples very badly. To isolating Mark and Elena, to completely shaddering Jason/Alex's friendships in their minds.
It is funny how he won the only couple that was totally oblvious to the game and just had sex and ate cereal. In the end Paul played a controlling, bullying, manipulating, fake, and desperate game. I appreciate any and all backstabbing, lying, etc in Big Brother, but not from one person who shuts down all others from doing it through the help of production, and the houseguests just taking the easy way of getting farther in the game. That easy way was, just listen to Paul he will do all the work for us.
/end of season thoughts, Later bros and gals
He actually looked super surprised too (well as surprised as he is capable of looking).
I had no clue Jessica had enough fans to get people to stuff that vote, but there you go. That's what fan favorite is about ultimately. "Who has the more rabid fan base?"
It is also because he was the only one in jury that was never a Paul puppet.
I was going to say the only one that Paul didn't manipulate, but that's not true. Paul manipulated him into believing that the house would vote Josh out. And so he told Jess not to use the veto.
MeBecomingI
Member
Finally got caught up with the season. Stopped watching the series a long time ago, but after all the talk from some co-workers about this season, I decided to marathon watch the entire season the past week during my vacation and see what all the hubbub was about.
I have to agree with this post though but I wouldn't call Paul the GOAT. I do think he definitely deserves to be in the conversation for some of the best from now on, even without winning. Although I do agree with some of the others that Paul's answers to the questions from Jury were pretty crappy, considering he kind of pussy footed around his own game (should've doubled down and hammered that he played them all) but ultimately, he completely outplayed every single person in the game and yes, absolutely deserved to win it. And deep down everyone knows that he should've too. Unfortunately, the question and answers period didn't matter. It wasn't going to sway anyone either way.
I agree that Alex and Jason were probably the worst but particularly Alex. She just could not get over it. I honestly wonder if she'll ever get over it. I mean, she might literally be on her death bed and still spouting off that stupid face she always made every time Paul spoke. I mean, get the fuck over it. How are you still so bitter and angry over that? It's fucking embarrassing. Be like Kevin and just take it in stride and move on. As an aside, I did like seeing Cameron shit on everyone at the end there. Poor guy didn't even get a chance to play the game but still went out like a champ. Hell, even Jessica was throwing shade on everyone and said she'd vote for Paul. It is a damn shame that the season came down to this finale. I genuinely feel bad for Paul.
It's gonna be a hard to watch another season. The bitter jury is a real problem. If all it takes is for someone so jaded, bitter and childish as Alex (who has no problem fucking over her own friends and lying to people) to prevent someone who orchestrated the downfall of everyone and played the game so well from winning, then there isn't really a hope for the "game" of Big Brother. The positives of Paul's gameplay far, far outweighed the negatives, yet it was that one negative that he couldn't control (cause people are awful) that cost him the game. Like someone said a little bit before me, even Raven would've fucking won against Paul. Dr. Will was lucky he hit the Big Brother scene so early, cause he would've lost for sure with a modern jury.
Brutal. I don't know. Maybe that is my problem with the series. It doesn't really feel like a game anymore. It's just an elaborate casting process for another CBS show, like Amazing Race.
Oh, yeah. That means more Jessica and Cody. Yeah, that sucks.
Oh well. Grats to Josh, I guess? Ugh.
Jury management is key. You can be a mastermind and anything you want and play everyone to get to the final, but you still need the votes at the end.
The jury may be bitter or whatever, but so what? They have to work with it and adapt to it, and make sure that ypu get enough votes at the end, is that simple.
The jury may be bitter or whatever, but so what? They have to work with it and adapt to it, and make sure that ypu get enough votes at the end, is that simple.
I actually dropped this season tight after the premiere, and I'm glad I did it, sounds like an awful season if Paul was dominating the whole thing.
Dusk Soldier
Member
I have to disagree on the bitter jury. Getting to F2 is important but it isn't everything.
Jury management is a big component of the game, and if Paul had done a good job of managing the jury, Josh wouldn't have taken him to final 2.
He would have clipped him and took Christmas.
It's true the jury comes into finale night having largely made up their minds, but the way Paul handled the Q&A session did him no favours.
Shock and awe at this finale, first Josh taking HOH, then keeping Paul which I was sure had sunk him, then Paul continuing to lie through his teeth at Jury Q&A, thinking Paul had won 5-4 before Cody completes his revenge arc and throws the win to a man he utterly despises.
What a journey.
It was definitely a bitter jury, but that is a vital element of the game. Just like it makes no sense to ensure everyone likes you but not keep yourself safe, the inverse is true. If you piss off the jury, you screwed yourself. Paul should have won 18 and 19, but his jury management is so poor, that all his work amounts to nothing.
Congratulations, ya played yaself.
What a journey.
It was definitely a bitter jury, but that is a vital element of the game. Just like it makes no sense to ensure everyone likes you but not keep yourself safe, the inverse is true. If you piss off the jury, you screwed yourself. Paul should have won 18 and 19, but his jury management is so poor, that all his work amounts to nothing.
Congratulations, ya played yaself.
Blood Diamonds
Banned
Soooo fucking glad Paul lost the whole thing a second time. See ya never breh
Not really. You're citing two people who literally poisoned their own well by treating people like disposable garbage who would just hand them a check. amanda SUCKED ASS at final tribals and could never upsell herself, while her competition were always charismatic and likeable in a way she was not. Like, even if the rest technically applied it's night and day.
I've never really followed big brother or survivor threads before now. I'm surprised people are so disappointed in "bitter jury". the jury is a crucial part of the game. Otherwise might as well just have a Judge awarding points or something impartial. You don't win just by being the best player, you win by getting to the end and getting the most votes. The best player can win because they backstabbed in a way that their victims still respect them. But Paul failed to understand that, TWICE! he 100% earned the 50k, and also did not earn the 500k.
I was sure Paul was going to win though (I thought Cody at least respected him a little Vs. Josh, wonder what promise he was talking about) and seal this being the worst season. Really glad he didn't.
Ps: I also think they gave him WAY too much help at the beginning, 4 weeks (1 + 3) weeks of safety? Damn. Will can talk about halting hex all he wants, that's some bullshit.
I was sure Paul was going to win though (I thought Cody at least respected him a little Vs. Josh, wonder what promise he was talking about) and seal this being the worst season. Really glad he didn't.
Ps: I also think they gave him WAY too much help at the beginning, 4 weeks (1 + 3) weeks of safety? Damn. Will can talk about halting hex all he wants, that's some bullshit.
If you cant win the jury, you dont deserve to win. I think Paul could have won though had he been the final HOH and taken Christmas instead.
In the end, Joshs goodbye messages fucked Paul and if Paul had just been honest in his goodbye messages, I think he would have had the votes. The way his goodbye messages came off for both Alex and Jason was almost patronizing. Its a social game, bitter jury is always going to be a risk.
In the meantime, Josh did so much shit that should have landed him on the block, including taking the golden apple in the first competition. Josh didnt have the safety Paul got either. He definitely had a hand in a lot of evictions. He may not have played as hard as Paul, but he certainly deserved to win more than anyone else that was left.
In the end, Joshs goodbye messages fucked Paul and if Paul had just been honest in his goodbye messages, I think he would have had the votes. The way his goodbye messages came off for both Alex and Jason was almost patronizing. Its a social game, bitter jury is always going to be a risk.
In the meantime, Josh did so much shit that should have landed him on the block, including taking the golden apple in the first competition. Josh didnt have the safety Paul got either. He definitely had a hand in a lot of evictions. He may not have played as hard as Paul, but he certainly deserved to win more than anyone else that was left.
This was such a weird season. It would have been much better without Paul - casting nailed it but then ruined it all by tacking on Paul. But Paul being there led to one of the best finales ever, so overall I enjoyed it.
I took Cody's saying "I keep my word" to mean he said he'd get Paul out in week one, so he voted for Josh.
WTF was up with Raven standing next to Paul at the end like Vanna White at a funeral? I simultaneously want to see Raven next season and never want to see Raven again.
I gave up long ago trying to decide who "deserves" to win each season and predicting on finale night. Things always get crazy and the edits are so deceptive. Dan losing was the last time I made that mistake. Us judging who has the best social game or counting competition wins means nothing. BB strategy is all theoretical. Whoever wins deserves to win.
I took Cody's saying "I keep my word" to mean he said he'd get Paul out in week one, so he voted for Josh.
WTF was up with Raven standing next to Paul at the end like Vanna White at a funeral? I simultaneously want to see Raven next season and never want to see Raven again.
I gave up long ago trying to decide who "deserves" to win each season and predicting on finale night. Things always get crazy and the edits are so deceptive. Dan losing was the last time I made that mistake. Us judging who has the best social game or counting competition wins means nothing. BB strategy is all theoretical. Whoever wins deserves to win.
Kevin let out a secret during his interview about what was going on in Jury House.
He said that Cody/Elena/Mark/Jason/Alex had a pact to not vote for Paul to win. Kevin said he was pressured to agree to the pact and he did because he was pressured into doing so whilst locked up in jury house (this is the promise Cody was talking about when he looked at his fellow jury members and turned his key).
Kevin said that he changed him mind the night before finale (when jury members leave jury house and move into their own hotel room) and decided to go against the pact, because he knew Paul played the better game.
So all this crap about Paul's final speech and his answers to the questions costing him the win are garbage. A pact had already been made that no matter who sat next to Paul, will be the winner of Big Brother and not Paul.
In the end, Paul not winning actually benefits him in a strange way. Him being robbed by a bitter jury twice in a row by a single vote...just makes him a more iconic & polarizing Big Brother legend. Basically he's the Russell Hantz of Big Brother and Russell Hantz is a hell of a lot more infamous than practically every winner of Survivor.
He said that Cody/Elena/Mark/Jason/Alex had a pact to not vote for Paul to win. Kevin said he was pressured to agree to the pact and he did because he was pressured into doing so whilst locked up in jury house (this is the promise Cody was talking about when he looked at his fellow jury members and turned his key).
Kevin said that he changed him mind the night before finale (when jury members leave jury house and move into their own hotel room) and decided to go against the pact, because he knew Paul played the better game.
So all this crap about Paul's final speech and his answers to the questions costing him the win are garbage. A pact had already been made that no matter who sat next to Paul, will be the winner of Big Brother and not Paul.
In the end, Paul not winning actually benefits him in a strange way. Him being robbed by a bitter jury twice in a row by a single vote...just makes him a more iconic & polarizing Big Brother legend. Basically he's the Russell Hantz of Big Brother and Russell Hantz is a hell of a lot more infamous than practically every winner of Survivor.
CitizenCope
Member
Congrats on Zombie leg golf Josh!
I think not.
It's barely 300K after tax and he's already super rich living in a multi-million dollar mansion in Tarzana (one of the richest neighborhoods in Los Angeles where the likes of Selena Gomez, Chris Tucker etc...also live).
We are talking reality television here. Being infamous and polarizing can keep you in the public eye forever. Paul said yesterday that CBS keeps throwing shows at him to join.
In a week from now...you think CBS or the American public is going to care about Josh (or care to hear from him ever again?...nope).
If there's ever another Big Brother all-star season, you think there's even a chance of them NOT bringing Paul back?
It's barely 300K after tax and he's already super rich living in a multi-million dollar mansion in Tarzana (one of the richest neighborhoods in Los Angeles where the likes of Selena Gomez, Chris Tucker etc...also live).
We are talking reality television here. Being infamous and polarizing can keep you in the public eye forever. Paul said yesterday that CBS keeps throwing shows at him to join.
In a week from now...you think CBS or the American public is going to care about Josh (or care to hear from him ever again?...nope).
If there's ever another Big Brother all-star season, you think there's even a chance of them NOT bringing Paul back?
He didn't really own being the puppet master, he was just gloating over his utter dominance of every challenge. Saying that he had control over nearly every eviction is a true statement, but what the jury was looking for was him to own up to the backstabbings. After all, he did deprive them of half a million dollars.
A villain isn't a worthy villain if he doesn't eventually confess to his evil plans. He was still claiming he did everything in good faith by the end and that didn't sit right with them. Josh gave them honesty.
Bringer Of Bacon
Member
Congrats to the beautiful meatball! This is one of the best seasons yet. I didnt really particularly like any of the houseguests, but they certainly made for good TV. Glad to see the Cody arc complete itself. In the end, he got the last laugh and fucked Pauls game. Worst jury management ever
It had absolutely nothing to do with jury management.
There were a few in jury (Cody, Mark, Jason) who would NEVER have voted for Paul, because they see themselves as assertive alpha males, and had a 24 year old kid manipulate them and ultimately kicked out of the game.
This was their turn to say FUCK YOU PAUL and refuse to vote for him to win...and it was all because of bitterness and a bruised ego.
There were a few in jury (Cody, Mark, Jason) who would NEVER have voted for Paul, because they see themselves as assertive alpha males, and had a 24 year old kid manipulate them and ultimately kicked out of the game.
This was their turn to say FUCK YOU PAUL and refuse to vote for him to win...and it was all because of bitterness and a bruised ego.
daemissary
Member
Yeah, the "jury management" excuse is a load of crap. Kevin's comments showed that the jury was so bitter that it didn't matter what Paul did or said. They'd rather vote for a hanger on who slammed pots and pans in their face than admit Paul owned them and give him the vote.
Totally ridiculous.
Totally ridiculous.
Swass
Member
Survivor and Big Brother are flawed, the best players aren't winning these shows but rather the anyone but said player is winning. I guess it makes the finale interesting, but as a fan of gameplay, I have not been enjoying these outcomes with the exception of BBOTT, I'm glad Jason didn't win.
hoverboarder
Member
Paul hater brains going into overdrive trying to figure out how to justify Josh's win. This is not a case of Russell vs. blank.
I'm not as mad or surprised as last year's Paul loss. This is what CBS who clearly wanted and deserved a Paul win after his completely dominant season gets for casting many people who don't watch the show. This is why Survivor has had such amazing seasons post-Caramoan. Cast people who understand and respect the game and you'll get the winner the season deserved. Quoting Paul, "NEVER CARED!"
I'm not as mad or surprised as last year's Paul loss. This is what CBS who clearly wanted and deserved a Paul win after his completely dominant season gets for casting many people who don't watch the show. This is why Survivor has had such amazing seasons post-Caramoan. Cast people who understand and respect the game and you'll get the winner the season deserved. Quoting Paul, "NEVER CARED!"
Reckheim
Member
It is, but are you actually surprised with how oblivious they were in the house?
I also loved how Alex and Jason were just so upset that Paul back stabbed them when they did the exact same thing to Matt and Clown-face. bunch of hypocrites that have no idea about how the game works.
daemissary
Member
I really thought when Paul pulled Alex aside and gave her a real talk about how he couldn't use the veto on her, that he would've earned her vote after she had over a week to chill out about it.
I thought that was a true sign of respect and showed that if the circumstances were different, he definitely would've rode with her but the math just didn't work.
It is so weird to me how so many cast members can be such "super fans" of the show and still take things so personally. I feel like the earlier seasons usually had juries that were more accepting of "it's just a game". Maybe a generational thing or maybe the casting focuses on people who are prone to bitterness and resentment.
Did these super fans grow up cheering for the people who didn't do anything and just stuck around for a while?
Did these super fans grow up cheering for the people who didn't do anything and just stuck around for a while?
People hate Paul for the same reason why some people hated the 16-0 Patriots team in 2007. People hate it when someone runs up the score. They feel disrespected. You can call it bitterness, you can call it jealousy. It probably is bitterness and jealousy. But it is fundamentally human nature, and in a social game like thus one, Paul is foolish for not considering it.
Paul wanted to run circles around everyone and he did. He got what he wanted. People didn't like it.
Paul wanted to run circles around everyone and he did. He got what he wanted. People didn't like it.
Wow. I thought Josh had thrown it all away not taking Christmas but damn that jury vote. Amazing. Worth everything to see the look on Paul's face again. He destroyed them all and should've won but you can't ignore that human element.
Cody the serial killer winning America's fav... You crazy America.
Cody the serial killer winning America's fav... You crazy America.
Dr. Will could still win today just because he at least is a loveable rogue. He at least made it fun. There's a degree of smugness and sanctimoniousness that turns people off of Paul.
daemissary
Member
That's crazy. My partner and I lost to a doubles team in tennis districts that went on to take 2nd in state and I was pissed they didn't win. If I get eliminated by someone, I want them to win so I can say I lost to the best. Respect greatness.
Jury management is 50% of winning, it always has been. No player owes you their vote.
Agreed.
I think productions meddling with the show went overboard with Paul as well. 4 weeks of safety is horseshit in a game like this. If Paul had actually won, it would have been with an asterisk in my opinion.
Otherwise, he was a very good social manipulator playing with some of the dumbest most oblivious people to have ever stepped into the house. From the outside looking in, he played the best game by a long shot, but his jury management skills sucked and thats how Josh won. I cant see how anyone could say poor jury management didnt cause this?
The jury probably made a pact because hes an asshole. For example, when Jason got evicted, why did he even pretend that he had nothing to do with it? Alex was outnumbered and even if he landed on the block, he had no votes. He was deceptive at times when he didnt need to be and I think thats what made people upset.
He played similar to Derricks game but not as well and now Josh is 500k richer.
Pretty much. If you're really controlling things, then you need 5 people in the jury who are rock solid all about you winning. They have to like you and respect you and the game you played.
If those people in the jury had a pact to not vote for Paul, that was Paul's fault. I again go back to his goodbye messages where he basically lied in every single one of them. Even if Josh's goodbye messages hadn't blown his game up, people in the jury house talk to each other! He basically thought they were so dumb they would never figure out the deception (*cough*Raven*cough*).