Yeah, people need to keep in mind that the only things that count as costs - at least in relationship to pricing decisions - are variable costs and (potentially) some incremental fixed costs. R&D? No. Beyond those, the price may also reflect brand strength, differentiation of the product, etc., but the cost side of the decision is pretty concrete.
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Reggie: Wii U becomes profitable with just 1 game purchase
- Thread starter nickcv
- Start date
Yeah, people need to keep in mind that the only things that count as costs - at least in relationship to pricing decisions - are variable costs and (potentially) some incremental fixed costs. R&D? No. Beyond those, the price may also reflect brand strength, differentiation of the product, etc., but the cost side of the decision is pretty concrete.
TheNatural
My Member!
If this keeps Nintendo from having a steady flow of third party games and hurts the sales of the system, I guarantee investors will feel it.
Surely we collectively know SOMETHING about economics. Investors want money. Nintendo wants to make money. They don't care if it's a deck of cards or a personal rendering farm for 50,000$. If it makes money, it's good. If it makes more, it's better.
3rd party support is the big concern here. And with that Nintendo has done an analysis of what hardware can support what ports and the different prospects with Sony and MS' new hardware. If a more powerful console would mean more games selling for more money, you bet your ass that's how investors feel.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Explain the Wii, then. Because that had horrid third party support (with many devs making the exact same comment we're hearing now) yet dominated for 4 1/2 years.
Plus, I think Nintendo is happy being the "stopgap" system and will position itself halfway between the releases of the other systems (PS4/PS5, for example). It gives consumers something new to go after and would leave them in prime position.
Perhaps Nintendo went to 3rd parties with a variety of system spec sheets and said, "If we make this, will you put XYZ on the system?" Maybe the 3rd parties said no, or they made some sort of demand regarding other functionality that Nintendo wasn't willing to do. Who knows.
Don't get me wrong: I think it's quite likely the above didn't happen. Just stating how something else might have occurred.
What's so hard to explain? Nintendo made 1st party games that everybody and their shoes had a copy of. No one here is trying to tell you that you make more money as a company if you have 3rd party support - this is what I'm saying:
If better hardware meant more 3rd party which meant more money than Nintendo would've made with worse hardware and mostly 1st party games, then of course that's what Nintendo wants, investors included.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Sorry--I misunderstood your post. I agree.
Another completely likely scenario is the fact that we're moving into a new generation. For a little while, the Wii U can be the only next thing, and cross-platforms might make Nintendo some money. But then the new machines come in, and the likeliness of Nintendo making a console that is powerful enough to stand up to the new guys coming out in the future was always non-existent. So Nintendo might've just said thought they're never gonna be able to do cross platform, since they're first into next gen, and won't have the hardware to compete. So they don't care about cross-platform. Maybe they're hoping 3rd party support will come by the fact that Nintendo has an amazing track record, and through companies wanting to make fun, innovative games using the gamepad.
It's all very well considered, and we're left shaking our fists at the Wii U like we did the Wii, and well, that console sold to the extreme.
This is unfurtunate for "us" don't count with 3rd party support, but what are saying makes too much sense.
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
A lot of bitter posts in this thread.
test_account
XP-39C²
That i can see. Probably some of the PS1 profits as well, but not all of it.
It's not really bad for us. Nintendo having more money means they can do more R&D, spend more on 1st party games, and it's probably a contributing factor to them pushing the boundaries with dual-screen handheld, 3D, Wiimote, Gamepad, and everything else you want to add to the list. Going into uncharted territory costs money, and we all hate how big publishers only take on "safe" games, and the way FPSs just seems to come out of a FPS-o-tron.
Nintendo can take risks, and it's due to heaps of money.
TheNatural
My Member!
Wii sold like crazy. Sure, if Wii U sales like Wii then it wouldn't matter if anyone had anything on it.
That's a hell of a gamble though to hope to repeat a pop phenom though, especially when the previous two systems by Nintendo were clobbered because of no third party support.
grimshawish
Banned
Pretty much guessed this yeah.
Nintendo had the best selling games of that generation. The fact that Nintendo never got third party support even with Gamecube is enough to tell you why they don't trust third party developers.
Nintendo Published Wii releases:
2006
Wii Sports
Excite Truck
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
2007
WarioWare: Smooth Moves
Wii Play
Super Paper Mario
Mario Party 8
Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree
Pokémon Battle Revolution
Mario Strikers Charged
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
Donkey Kong Barrel Blast
Battalion Wars 2
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
Super Mario Galaxy
Link's Crossbow Training
Wing Island (Europe and Australia only)
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (Published by Nintendo in Japan only)
Eyeshield 21: The Field's Greatest Warriors (Japan only)
Harvest Moon: Magical Melody (Australia only)
Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles (Australia only)
Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure (Australia only)
2008
Endless Ocean
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Mario Kart Wii
Wii Fit
Wario Land: Shake It!
Wii Music
Animal Crossing: City Folk
Wii Chess (Europe only)
Disaster: Day of Crisis (Japan, Europe and Australia only)
Mario Super Sluggers (Japan and North America only)'
Zero: Tsukihami no Kamen (Japan only)
Captain Rainbow (Japan only)
Common sense of people power TV (Japan only)
Naruto: Clash of Ninja Revolution (Australia and Europe only)
2009
New Play Control! Mario Power Tennis
New Play Control! Pikmin
New Play Control! Donkey Kong Jungle Beat
Punch-Out!!
Wii Sports Resort
Metroid Prime: Trilogy
Wii Fit Plus
New Super Mario Bros. Wii
Another Code: R – A Journey into Lost Memories (Japan and Europe only)
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games (Published by Nintendo in Japan only)
Excitebots: Trick Racing (North America only)
New Play Control! Chibi Robo (Japan only)
Takt of Magic (Japan only)
NHK Kōhaku Quiz Gassen (Japan only)
Harvest Moon: Tree of Tranquility (Australia only)
2010
Endless Ocean 2: Adventures of the Deep
Sin & Punishment: Star Successor
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Monster Hunter Tri (Australia Only)
Samurai Warriors 3 (Published by Nintendo outside of Japan)
PokéPark Wii: Pikachu's Adventure
Metroid: Other M
Tetris Party Deluxe (Australia Only)
Wii Party
Kirby's Epic Yarn
FlingSmash
Donkey Kong Country Returns
Super Mario All-Stars 25th Anniversary Edition
Zangeki no Reginleiv (Japan only)
2011
Mario Sports Mix
Wii Play: Motion
Pandora's Tower (Japan and PAL only)
Mystery Case Files: The Malgrave Incident
Kirby's Return to Dream Land
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games (Published by Nintendo in Japan only)
Fortune Street
2012
Rhythm Heaven Fever
PokéPark 2: Wonders Beyond
Mario Party 9
Kiki Trick (Japan only)[17]
Xenoblade Chronicles
Project Zero II: Wii Edition (Published by Nintendo in Japan, Australia and Europe only)
The Last Story (Published by Nintendo in Japan and Europe)
New Play Control! Pikmin 2
Inazuma Eleven Strikers (Published by Nintendo in Europe only)
Just Dance Wii 2 (Japan only)
Kirby's Dream Collection
Kirby's Dream Collection: Special Edition
Pretty powerful list. Nintendo just needs to bring back old IPs to the start of the gen (Pikmin, and hopefully Metroid) and maybe a new one somewhere and they'll be on their way to fixing those end of gen issues (with better forward planning too).
Nintendo had the best selling games of that generation. The fact that Nintendo never got third party support even with Gamecube is enough to tell you why they don't trust third party developers.
Nintendo Published Wii releases:
2006
Wii Sports
Excite Truck
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
2007
WarioWare: Smooth Moves
Wii Play
Super Paper Mario
Mario Party 8
Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree
Pokémon Battle Revolution
Mario Strikers Charged
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
Donkey Kong Barrel Blast
Battalion Wars 2
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
Super Mario Galaxy
Link's Crossbow Training
Wing Island (Europe and Australia only)
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (Published by Nintendo in Japan only)
Eyeshield 21: The Field's Greatest Warriors (Japan only)
Harvest Moon: Magical Melody (Australia only)
Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles (Australia only)
Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure (Australia only)
2008
Endless Ocean
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Mario Kart Wii
Wii Fit
Wario Land: Shake It!
Wii Music
Animal Crossing: City Folk
Wii Chess (Europe only)
Disaster: Day of Crisis (Japan, Europe and Australia only)
Mario Super Sluggers (Japan and North America only)'
Zero: Tsukihami no Kamen (Japan only)
Captain Rainbow (Japan only)
Common sense of people power TV (Japan only)
Naruto: Clash of Ninja Revolution (Australia and Europe only)
2009
New Play Control! Mario Power Tennis
New Play Control! Pikmin
New Play Control! Donkey Kong Jungle Beat
Punch-Out!!
Wii Sports Resort
Metroid Prime: Trilogy
Wii Fit Plus
New Super Mario Bros. Wii
Another Code: R – A Journey into Lost Memories (Japan and Europe only)
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games (Published by Nintendo in Japan only)
Excitebots: Trick Racing (North America only)
New Play Control! Chibi Robo (Japan only)
Takt of Magic (Japan only)
NHK Kōhaku Quiz Gassen (Japan only)
Harvest Moon: Tree of Tranquility (Australia only)
2010
Endless Ocean 2: Adventures of the Deep
Sin & Punishment: Star Successor
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Monster Hunter Tri (Australia Only)
Samurai Warriors 3 (Published by Nintendo outside of Japan)
PokéPark Wii: Pikachu's Adventure
Metroid: Other M
Tetris Party Deluxe (Australia Only)
Wii Party
Kirby's Epic Yarn
FlingSmash
Donkey Kong Country Returns
Super Mario All-Stars 25th Anniversary Edition
Zangeki no Reginleiv (Japan only)
2011
Mario Sports Mix
Wii Play: Motion
Pandora's Tower (Japan and PAL only)
Mystery Case Files: The Malgrave Incident
Kirby's Return to Dream Land
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games (Published by Nintendo in Japan only)
Fortune Street
2012
Rhythm Heaven Fever
PokéPark 2: Wonders Beyond
Mario Party 9
Kiki Trick (Japan only)[17]
Xenoblade Chronicles
Project Zero II: Wii Edition (Published by Nintendo in Japan, Australia and Europe only)
The Last Story (Published by Nintendo in Japan and Europe)
New Play Control! Pikmin 2
Inazuma Eleven Strikers (Published by Nintendo in Europe only)
Just Dance Wii 2 (Japan only)
Kirby's Dream Collection
Kirby's Dream Collection: Special Edition
Pretty powerful list. Nintendo just needs to bring back old IPs to the start of the gen (Pikmin, and hopefully Metroid) and maybe a new one somewhere and they'll be on their way to fixing those end of gen issues (with better forward planning too).
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
How much does it cost?
I fully disagree because it says that fun is only one emotion.
But no, it's not. It's a full range of things that you (because fun is totally subjective, right?) enjoy or understand the enjoyability.
Someone will enjoy drama but not video games.
An other won't enjoy drama at all and would prefer to play some games.
So in one case, video games are fun, and in the other it's not. But the fact is, they exist because someone enjoys (fun=enjoyment) them, or someone enjoys creating them (the two angle of art's enjoyment).
Furthermore, fun can be the movie that make you cry everytime, or thrill to you so often.
Fun can be located in all the emotional range. It's the way we enjoy things that changes.
So, i'll say it another time, games are fun, or are meant to be fun, or are fun to create... They are enjoyment.
All games are possibly fun, there's no console that have funnier games than another. Or maybe if there is, it's your opinion of fun that matters...
edit: your video says that "The Social Network" and "The Illusionnist" aren't fun. So if i like them, i'm not enjoying them too? This is just elitism to compare that way the funny "Avengers" to the noble "Saving Private Ryan".
grimshawish
Banned
I suspect its referring to how they plan these things tbf
Theres probably an expected profit on every system sold; it turns positive on first purchase.
Management Speak is important
KungFucius
King Snowflake
Why do people bitch about this? If I scratch or break a disk I am screwed too? Obviously Nintendo will recover your games if your system is dead and loaded with digital games once they have something in place. The biggest issue is that a boxed game sells for the same price as a download and you can sell the boxed game when you are done for anywhere between 10 and 50 bucks depending on when you sell it.
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
No they don't. If they did the first console would be sold at a loss of, say, $500,000,012. The second, $250,000,012. The third, $166,666,678. The fourth, $125,000,012, The fifth, $100,000,012... and so on.
That worked for Sony and MS themselves. How well did it work for the third parties who released on their systems, though?
I think Nintendo are operating on the assumption that third parties are cautious about the next generation and are reluctant to dive into the POWERRR approach. I think for Japan that's not an unreasonable assumption, although the situation may be very different in the West.
KungFucius
King Snowflake
Another related question is how do they account for Deluxe vs Basic? The deluxe includes cheap flash, cheap plastic, and a game for 50 bucks more. Is this unit alone profitable? Based on the 1 game makes it profitable I think it would have to be. 32GB is a very cheap amount of flash compared to 8GB. It certainly does not cost Nintendo more than 5 bucks when bought in huge volumes. Take the plastic stands, the NintenoLand game and you might be able to argue that the deluxe costs Nintendo 10 dollars more than the basic, netting 40 more towards profit. The digital discount is not a cost, it's a promotion designed to get people to buy more. Obviously I am not including the dev cost of the game which is basically your question.
So what is profitable? N*Basic + M*Deluxe + (N+M)*(Mario or NLand or licensing fee for 3rd party)
If it is just licensing fee then the Deluxe is profitable, the Basic is marginal and will be profitable by itself once they are able to trim costs a little.
Dark Octave
Banned
Would it have killed them to make it two games and give us a faster CPU?
Aquamarine
Member
Where do you draw the line, though? What about three games and better RAM? Four games and a built-in harddrive? Five games and a multi-touch tablet controller?
Father_Brain
Banned
I suspect that their fixation on keeping the system's TDP/size as low as possible had more adverse impact on Wii U's specs than profitability did. Had they been willing to compromise on those points, I doubt it would have cost much more to produce a system that comfortably outperformed PS3/360 in every respect.
I'm guessing he's talking about the deluxe version. If either version was profitable they would likely have said so to calm the investors. Also I don't think the deluxe version would exist if the basic one was so near break even, at least it probably wouldn't include nintendo land.
Wasn't it that they would have you physically send in the console or some such nonsense to get the content transferred?
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
WE KNOW
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Wait, what? This isn't 2004, this is 2012. Third parties have ALREADY dove into the POWERRR approach, for better or for worse. That includes Square, Capcom, and other Japanese developers.
I think it's fair to say that Nintendo itself is still not ready for the HD era. Look at their big hitter games - EAD's Zelda team (with the help of SPD and Monolith Soft) finished Skyward Sword in late summer 2011. At roughly the same time HAL finished dragging Kirby from development hell. Retro finished DKCR sometime around fall 2010. Monolith Soft finished Xenoblade early 2010. EAD Tokyo finished Mario Galaxy 2 spring 2010. Besides helping with Skyward Sword, SPD also assisted with Other M back in 2010.
So the Wii U is launching, and major Nintendo studios were done developing their last titles 1-2 years ago. Where are the games? The NSMB team had NSMBU ready for launch, the Wii X team had Nintendo Land ready for launch. And... that's it?
Nintendo has said it is expanding. And it is! But where's the beef? The fact is that developing POWERRR games takes a lot of money, and Nintendo doesn't seem to want to do that. And that's fine! It's just not where the rest of the industry is. Nintendo should be honest about it, and not pretend that they're really going to go after third parties this time, we mean it guys!
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
It's only because none of them have a Mario plushy collection that matches yours. They're just blind haters.
Tallshortman
Member
Investors were pretty unhappy the last 2 years with Nintendo's handling of the Wii actually. It's not like everything was hunky Dorey because the first 5 years went well.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
No, but my theory is that Nintendo rectifies that by releasing the successor to the Wii U 5 years from now.
That would possibly eliminate that downtime that the Wii had and also solidify the Nintendo console halfway between the release of MS/Sony consoles, which is where I fully believe they want to be.
Yes. But if your console breaks I don't see why you wouldn't send it in. A: Nintendo offers a 1 year warranty on consoles (with a new one year warranty starting again from any repair date). B: Even if not under warranty it's cheaper than buying a new console.
Also they are able to get your games back to you if your console is stolen and you provide them with a police report.
I'm not saying it's perfect, and in fact it's not very good, but "Your console breaks your games are gone forever" is definitely not the case.
I suspect this is why Nintendo chose to have New SMBU at launch. You've got a potential ever green, system-seller, bridge title that will benefit even further by a holiday launch. It's a nice backup to have with Nintendo Land. Of course, Nintendo can also say that they've finally brought back Mario as a launch title.
Even New SMB 2 has sold well so far. It's at 3.25 million copies as of September. It also placed third on the Japanese Media Create sales chart last week.
Even New SMB 2 has sold well so far. It's at 3.25 million copies as of September. It also placed third on the Japanese Media Create sales chart last week.
Tallshortman
Member
I think you're underestimating that the average non-nintendo fan gamer is not going to be super happy about having to replace his/her Wii U so quickly. Short console life cycles are probably the dumbest thing to do in today's environment. Nintendo, short of a massive change in culture and company philosophy, is likely past the days of being able to compete in the graphics/higher end hardware console market. They simply can't produce the ecosystem to rival the twins. What you're suggesting is a Wii successor with presumably another "unique controller" with 720/ps4 hardware in 5 years without the other advantages those consoles offer. I mean if they do another expensive controller like this time around how much loss are they planning on taking if they price on par with their rivals?
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
1. The Wii was replaced after 6 years. I think the next one will be 5. That's not a huge difference.
2. If you look at the amount of people who abandoned the Wii after 4 1/2 years I think it was quite clear people were ready to move on to something new.
3. I don't think Nintendo's next console will be as weak compared to the other consoles. I actually think it will be a noticeable half-step above PS4/MS, which would put them in that "stopgap" category. If the rumors are true and MS/Sony release in winter 2013, they'll most likely wait until winter 2019 to release. If Nintendo goes with a 5-year release schedule this time, it puts their next one at winter 2017--a 2 year gap before the other two most likely release. That's huge.
you know those old people who still head to the biggest downtown retail store to buy a new pc and come away with some dell piece of shit that can barely run solitaire?
those old people all work for nintendo.
creid
Member
That's a good start.
Tallshortman
Member
People weren't as much ready to move on to a new thing rather than there was either nothing they wanted to play or they were casuals. You are assuming the casual person who never bought a console before the wii is going to spring for the wii u. That's simply not going to be true. I mean if the wii u ends up selling like 100 million units by the end of it's life cycle come find me and I'll eat my words but that's simply something I don't see happening. The tablet controller is simply not as unique or casual drawing as the wii mote was.
Also, why do you think even if Nintendo did a 5 year life cycle their console would be a half generation more powerful given the Wii U has been getting panned for it's lack of hardware advancement over 7 year old consoles?
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
Good news. I guess this explains the $60 cost of Wii U software.
sixteen-bit
Member
then why pack in nintendo land?
Whiskeymatt
Member
To give people an incentive to pay more for the premium pack?
TheAtomicPile
Member
This, and other similar threads, is reminding me a lot of E3 time on GAF where Nintendo really gets a lot of irrational hate thrown its way. At E3 time last year, we had people saying that even Mario 3D Land looked shitty. Of course, they gained this knowledge after only watching one short trailer and knowing next to nothing about the game.
Now, we have people who lack experience with the Wii U itself, as well as any historical gaming perspective, telling us that they somehow calculated that the system sucks now and will always suck. It's easy to tell how irrational a lot of these sentiments are. For example, in this thread, you can tell that some people are genuinely angry that Nintendo will be making money off the Wii U. Logic and reason be damned, this system and this company must fail!
Same shit, different day.
Fortunately, the loudest trolls usually go away pretty soon after people get bored of their shit.
Pretty much. The fact that Nintendo Land is a pack in, plus the eshop discount, for only 50$ more, with the bigger storage, suggests that they really don't want people to buy the basic pack.
Japan doesn't get NL despite being more expensive than in the west, probably because they're not as despetate to upsell to the premium pack, with both versions closer to breaking even.