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A critique of Destiny 2's issues (power, loot, end-game) by one of the top players

I don't mind gear having fixed perks, but I agree with everything else. Destiny 1 kept me hooked for 6 months and then a few months each for the DLC's. I'm already bored of D2 a month in. It just doesn't have the magic anymore.

The majority of Destiny players would agree that PVP with Last Word and Thorn was the most fun and that's when the game was at its most imbalanced. Balance is the antithesis of fun in Destiny.

No idea what you're talking about. DoT on the Thorn was a big part of the reason most of my friends just gave up on PVP. The most upvoted threads on reddit were complaints about that very weapon.

I don't think people thought it was fun. It was one of the worst PVP experiences I've ever had. It felt unfair, and yes, that perceived sense of fairness is absolutely significant to the player experience.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
The ๖ۜBronx;251581619 said:
Ask people what the most memorable raid and weapon of Destiny was and I guarantee most will say Vault of Glass and Gjallarhorn. You criticize the poster for speaking for everyone about things he personally liked, before doing the same yourself.

I think you misread what I said. I'm not saying he's in the minority for thinking Vault of Glass and Gjallarhorn were the MOST memorable.

He said they were the ONLY truly memorable moments/weapons. There's a difference.

And I'm sorry, but the fact that VoG and Gjallarhorn were the very first raid and "God weapon" are a huge part of why they're so memorable.
 

Kadin

Member
I hate that threads like these make me reconsider playing on PC. I skipped console where I played D1 so I could play with friends on PC instead. And now I’m contemplating the decision. Probably should just avoid stuff like this and just go in blind since I liked the first game - for the most part.
 
And I'm sorry, but the fact that VoG and Gjallarhorn were the very first raid and "God weapon" are a huge part of why they're so memorable.
I think VoG was memorable because of the art direction and good mix of mechanics and bosses. I think Gjallarhorn was memorable because it was an extremely fun weapon to use that looked exotic and felt exotic. Putting it down to them being the first does them a large disservice and shrugs off many of the reasons people found them memorable. I'd actually wager that the majority feel no weapon has come close to feeling as exotic as Gjallarhorn since. Perhaps the Black Hammer, but then they nerfed that as well.
 

void666

Banned
I hate that threads like these make me reconsider playing on PC. I skipped console where I played D1 so I could play with friends on PC instead. And now I’m contemplating the decision. Probably should just avoid stuff like this and just go in blind since I liked the first game - for the most part.

It's a good game. But eventually you will reach a point where you will have nothing else to do. To some that's great. To others that's a tragedy.
 

TyrantII

Member
You asked if he enjoyed playing the game for the gameplay alone, and not a steady stream of new loot. I asked you if it would blow your mind if he did lol.

My point is some people like to replay/keep playing games because they just find them fun to play. Why would anyone logically replay Resident Evil 4? There isn't much more to see past that first time through. They must just really enjoy the experience of playing the game.

It's crazy, I know.

You can't even replay the story missions in order start to finish in D2.

Crazy, I know.
 

wuth

Member
The ๖ۜBronx;251582054 said:
I think VoG was memorable because of the art direction and good mix of mechanics and bosses. I think Gjallarhorn was memorable because it was an extremely fun weapon to use that looked exotic and felt exotic.

Agree on VOG, but Ghorn was memorable because it was busted and a basic necessity in raiding. So many bosses melted under that gun and it cut some fights down in length substantially.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
The ๖ۜBronx;251582054 said:
I think VoG was memorable because of the art direction and good mix of mechanics and bosses. I think Gjallarhorn was memorable because it was an extremely fun weapon to use that looked exotic and felt exotic.

Yep, and they were awesome.

Unfortunately, there was more to "vanilla Destiny" than VoG and Gjallarhorn. Like the embarrassingly awful campaign, the terrible grind to 30, followed by the first expansion being a complete joke with a Raid that was looked at as a huge step down.

Vanilla Destiny as a full product was bad. If you liked it, that's fine. But there's a reason Bungie moved away from that with House of Wolves onward and will absolutely never go back to it.

Vanilla Destiny was the laughing stock of the gaming community and piled on by critics. Rightfully so.

I'm sorry if that was your favorite but it's never coming back. Because if you think the best time in Destiny was the first 4 months, you're in the minority of people who play the game. If you want to argue specifics, that's fine, but you need to be able to admit that first.

Agree on VOG, but Ghorn was memorable because it was busted and a basic necessity in raiding. So many bosses melted under that gun and it cut some fights down in length substantially.

This as well. Gjallarhorn was a beast and incredibly fun.

It was also a nearly game-breaking weapon that made the game less fun for people who didn't have it.
 
Agree on VOG, but Ghorn was memorable because it was busted and a basic necessity in raiding. So many bosses melted under that gun and it cut some fights down in length substantially.

Again, I don't think that's why it was memorable for the majority of players. It was fun to use and felt (and looked) like an exotic weapon should. It was also far from a necessity to anyone other than the hardcore crowd, where you would be met with such requirements while looking for a PUG.

Unfortunately, there was more to "vanilla Destiny" than VoG and Gjallarhorn. Like the embarrassingly awful campaign, the terrible grind to 30, followed by the first expansion being a complete joke with a Raid that was looked at as a huge step down.

Vanilla Destiny as a full product was bad. If you liked it, that's fine. But there's a reason Bungie moved away from that with House of Wolves onward and will absolutely never go back to it.

Vanilla Destiny was the laughing stock of the gaming community and piled on by critics. Rightfully so.

I'm sorry if that was your favorite but it's never coming back. Because if you think the best time in Destiny was the first 4 months, you're in the minority of people who play the game. If you want to argue specifics, that's fine, but you need to be able to admit that first.
None of this post seems to have anything to do with what I was saying so I'm not sure how to respond. I think the most memorable aspects of Destiny came from Year One, not that I thought it was the best part of the lifespan of the game.
 

Kodros

Member
You asked if he enjoyed playing the game for the gameplay alone, and not a steady stream of new loot. I asked you if it would blow your mind if he did lol.

My point is some people like to replay/keep playing games because they just find them fun to play. Why would anyone logically replay Resident Evil 4? There isn't much more to see past that first time through. They must just really enjoy the experience of playing the game.

It's crazy, I know.

Because the draw of Destiny is to improve your character over time. I'm not sure where RE4 or Super Mario fits in here. They are different types of games. Do you think WoW or Borderlands would be as fun or popular as they are now if you couldn't level up or get new weapons and skills? No, they would be terrible.
 

xviper

Member
so fans are mad because you can reach max level easier and quicker than Destiny 1 ?? really ?

for me, it's the best thing about Destiny 2, sorry, but i have a fucking life, i don't want to drain my time grinding and barely getting anything useful, RNG in D1 was horrible, it took me 4 months since the release of TTK to get to max level

some people don't like complicated things and yet enjoy the game, they want to reach max level without playing difficult things like Raid

why make the game complicated ? just make it simple, let everyone enjoy, no need for bullshit, no need for playing the most difficult things to reach max level, just enjoy

Destiny 1 was a life sucker, some people have jobs, families and responsibilities, they don't have that much time and yet they want to enjoy the game to the maximum, and Destiny 2 allowed that, thank you Bungie for that
 

luffxan

Member
Wrote the equivalent of an essay but not trying to be extra so here's an attempt at a tldr:

"God-roll" rng is more or less still here they just hid it by reskinning/changing the name of gun archetypes. Everyone uses Uriels Gift or a variant thereof it's just easier to come across kinda.

There's no real reason to use or work for endgame gear when you can get the same if not better quality stuff by just mucking around.

I miss when my hunter could have decent stats while not just essentially being a palette swap of everyone else wanting to get a good stat role but with a different cape

The fact that you can randomly join a clan, do nothing with them aside from taking up space in the roster, and get endgame gear if they complete an endgame activity kills motivation for the activities for myself and my friends considering they're so lackluster. I have all the raid/trials weapons I wanted without having spent more than 30min in either.

Crucible is a joke right now which is sad considering they hamstrung PvE for it.

Most exotics feel worthless for the sake of balance.

I agree with everything slayerage said

I miss a lot about destiny 1 terribly but still like 2
/rant
 
so fans are mad because you can reach max level easier and quicker than Destiny 1 ?? really ?
No, not really. It's that levelling is far more accessible but there's nothing to do when you reach the higher levels. From 280 onwards there's literally no new experience to unlock (bar one shotgun), so what is the point in continuing to 305. Most games give you some reason to continue levelling toward the level cap, Destiny 2 gives none.
 
So glad I didn't fall for the hype and massive marketing etc to buy Destiny 2 :)

Got plenty of other games on the horizon I'll buy Destiny 2 in few years in a complete edition maybe

Um well I got 6 days of playtime into my character and that was well worth $60 and it's some of the most fun I've had online in a long time. If they fix the endgame, that's a bonus


I'd say you missed out.
 

TyrantII

Member
The ๖ۜBronx;251582831 said:
Again, I don't think that's why it was memorable for the majority of players. It was fun to use and felt (and looked) like an exotic weapon should. It was also far from a necessity to anyone other than the hardcore crowd, where you would be met with such requirements while looking for a PUG.


None of those post seems to have anything to do with what I was saying so I'm not sure how to respond. I think the most memorable aspects of Destiny came from Year One, not that I thought it was the best part of the lifespan of the game.

People did complain that PUGs/LFGs were using to gate people out of joining up for end game activities, but I always saw that as a blessing in disguise.

Why would you want to play with assholes so bad at gaming they could only beat the raid with one loadout and so lame to broadcast their douchiness?

It's was a flag that those groups were not worth your time.
 

xRaizen

Member
The mindset that every player should experience everything and not feel left out is what ruined this game’s design.

No reason to raid, no reason to play IB, no reason to do anything anymore. They catered to casuals way too much. I was going to double dip and get it on PC, but no longer.
 

wuth

Member
The ๖ۜBronx;251582831 said:
Again, I don't think that's why it was memorable for the majority of players. It was fun to use and felt (and looked) like an exotic weapon should. It was also far from a necessity to anyone other than the hardcore crowd, where you would be met with such requirements while looking for a PUG.

That is an incredibly positive take on the history of Ghorn, but remember that people didn't even know how broken it was at first. I mean, there were way cooler Exotics for the casual crowd, like Hawkmoon, Hardlight, The Last Word, and even Monte Carlo. I mean, remember the meme? Nobody wants an exotic in the heavy slot.

For anyone who stuck through the launch, Ghorn was all about it's ridiculous utility. It made fights easy mode and that's certainly what I remember it for.
 

ethomaz

Banned
... Did you have an actual reply? You're not really adding much to this argument here other than "Well, I personally didn't like other weapons so no one did."

There was nothing "lol" about that. Doctrine with a God roll and Raze-lighter were two of the best weapons in Destiny, hands down, without question.
You list three nobody weapons that is not in the TOP30 most used and I need to reply lol

That exactly highlight what I said about memorable weapons being vanilla Destiny with few exceptions.
 

RS4-

Member
He's not wrong. It's how I felt after the first two weeks. Since then, I'd just log on, do the weekly shit (and suffer through crucible) then turn it off. Sometimes I don't even bother doing everything, it's the same shit.
 
That is an incredibly positive take on the history of Ghorn, but remember that people didn't even know how broken it was at first. I mean, there were way cooler Exotics for the casual crowd, like Hawkmoon, Hardlight, The Last Word, and even Monte Carlo. I mean, remember the meme? Nobody wants an exotic in the heavy slot.

For anyone who stuck through the launch, Ghorn was all about it's ridiculous utility. It made fights easy mode and that's certainly what I remember it for.

I'm genuinely not sure how Gjallarhorn (a rocket launcher that explodes into blue tracking rounds that swarm and destroy an enemy) is less cool to the casual crowd than those mentioned.

Not sure either why you're referencing the meme when the entire reason it's a meme was that it was ridiculously good and cool, despite being a heavy. It was the fact that you would normally save the exotic slot for a primary or secondary but Gjallarhorn was so good it negated that concept. It was also from Reddit's Destiny subreddit, not the domain of standard, casual gamers.

People did complain that PUGs/LFGs were using to gate people out of joining up for end game activities, but I always saw that as a blessing in disguise.
Oh they did 100%. They were talking about the casual crowd though, and that's not typically people looking online for PUGs.
 

E92 M3

Member
so fans are mad because you can reach max level easier and quicker than Destiny 1 ?? really ?

for me, it's the best thing about Destiny 2, sorry, but i have a fucking life, i don't want to drain my time grinding and barely getting anything useful, RNG in D1 was horrible, it took me 4 months since the release of TTK to get to max level

some people don't like complicated things and yet enjoy the game, they want to reach max level without playing difficult things like Raid

why make the game complicated ? just make it simple, let everyone enjoy, no need for bullshit, no need for playing the most difficult things to reach max level, just enjoy

Destiny 1 was a life sucker, some people have jobs, families and responsibilities, they don't have that much time and yet they want to enjoy the game to the maximum, and Destiny 2 allowed that, thank you Bungie for that

As a semi-nolifer of Destiny, I agree.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
The ๖ۜBronx;251582831 said:
I think the most memorable aspects of Destiny came from Year One, not that I thought it was the best part of the lifespan of the game.

Okay, well you jumped into a conversation between me and someone who does think that.
 

f@luS

More than a member.
I’m so-so about all this

All in all I think it’s better
I spent too much time in je first one grinding bullshit reputation. Here it’s much easier. Got 3x305 as well and almost full raid for all of them (all weapon included). Got all the trial weapons as well

Yet I still want to play. I’m collecting all armor set @ 305. All weapon from special people (factions or IB). All exotics ...

Everything is nice and fun
 

The Goat

Member
Echoes my feelings pretty much to a T. I knew D2 was not the sequel I was hoping for, though I've still enjoyed some of it. Its more Destiny.

I actually want to play the game, daily, but there's little to no reason to do that. I won't progress at all, and like he said, it feels like you wasted your time. I like that there's ways to get to 305 without having to raid. I don't feel it cheapens the experience. The problem is just as he states. Power level means nothing. It's a carrot to chase, and a gate for Bungie to herd you through content.

I really miss the gun rolls. I know, more RNG, but it made getting a good roll that much better. Getting the exact same gun, 10x over, hasn't been fun. At least with random rolls, I would probably score something useful, but now, I just shard it.

While on the subject of D2 complaints, I absolutely hate the timed NF in D2. What does this gain anyone? A challenge? Sure, but I want to have fun, not worry about a clock ticking down. They can keep the clock in prestige mode, but normal NF doesn't need it.
 

xviper

Member
The ๖ۜBronx;251583371 said:
No, not really. It's that levelling is far more accessible but there's nothing to do when you reach the higher levels. From 280 onwards there's literally no new experience to unlock (bar one shotgun), so what is the point in continuing to 305. Most games give you some reason to continue levelling toward the level cap, Destiny 2 gives none.

well, leveling to 305 makes doing the Raid\ Nightfall easier, you are able to do hard mode now which means you unlocked a new experience, Raid hard mode will be different than the normal, if you stayed 280, you can't play hard mode, or lets say that it's pretty much a pain in the ass to finish it at 280, so you gain something from reaching max level
 
Okay, well you jumped into a conversation between me and someone who does think that.

Sure, mainly because I took issue with you suggesting that vanilla content wouldn't be the majority opinion for what was more memorable from Destiny 1.

well, leveling to 305 makes doing the Raid\ Nightfall easier, you are able to do hard mode now which means you unlocked a new experience, Raid hard mode will be different than the normal, if you stayed 280, you can't play hard mode, or lets say that it's pretty much a pain in the ass to finish it at 280, so you gain something from reaching max level

You can't over-level in Destiny, so not really. Hard mode, as said, is the same quest but with less time. Hardly a new experience on par with what you'd expect for pushing toward the light cap.
 

wuth

Member
The ๖ۜBronx;251583893 said:
I'm genuinely not sure how Gjallarhorn (a rocket launcher that explodes into tracking rounds that swarm and destroy an enemy) is less cool to the casual crowd than those mentioned.

Not sure either why you're referencing the meme when the entire reason it's a meme was that it was ridiculously good and cool, despite being a heavy. It was the fact that you would normally save the exotic slot for a primary or secondary but Gjallarhorn was so good it negated that concept. It was also from Reddit's Destiny subreddit, not the domain of standard, casual gamers.

Because it was rare and just shot a rocket that created smaller rockets. And I was referencing the meme because it was making fun of the casual mentality and how off guard everyone was. Nobody expected Ghorn to be such a stand out, and that implies that people weren't too hot on it before hand. There were just too many other 'cooler' weapons so everyone was sleeping on the Exotic Rocket Launcher.
 

Kodros

Member
so fans are mad because you can reach max level easier and quicker than Destiny 1 ?? really ?

for me, it's the best thing about Destiny 2, sorry, but i have a fucking life, i don't want to drain my time grinding and barely getting anything useful, RNG in D1 was horrible, it took me 4 months since the release of TTK to get to max level

some people don't like complicated things and yet enjoy the game, they want to reach max level without playing difficult things like Raid

why make the game complicated ? just make it simple, let everyone enjoy, no need for bullshit, no need for playing the most difficult things to reach max level, just enjoy

Destiny 1 was a life sucker, some people have jobs, families and responsibilities, they don't have that much time and yet they want to enjoy the game to the maximum, and Destiny 2 allowed that, thank you Bungie for that

You want to enjoy the game to the maximum because you want to get max level without doing the raid? What? If you didn't want to do the raid or Nightfall, you could have stopped playing Destiny 1 WAY before the max level.

The main, more casual part of the game should be light on grind. But for those that want to continue, there should be something else which usually means something to grind. You can satisfy both crowds.
 

xRaizen

Member
well, leveling to 305 makes doing the Raid Nightfall easier, you are able to do hard mode now which means you unlocked a new experience, Raid hard mode will be different than the normal, if you stayed 280, you can't play hard mode, or lets say that it's pretty much a pain in the ass to finish it at 280, so you gain something from reaching max level
Sure, but why would you want to do the raid in prestige mode if the loot doesn’t provide anything but a cosmetic difference? The armor is the same, the weapons will be the same. None of the loot will replace anything you have on at 305 since chances are, there will be zero difference between the loot you get and the items you already have equipped.

There’s no reason to go through the raid. At all.
 
Balance is indeed something that hurts Destiny 2.

You play games to be ducking stronger killer machine and if you find somebody even stronger than you then you will try get even stronger.

Now when everything is balanced you are a human playing against humans lol

Balance is fine. I still think there is a way to have both and (mind the pun) balance gameplay balance and the number of worthwhile carrots to chase
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
You list three nobody weapons that is not in the TOP30 most used and I need to reply lol

That exactly highlight what I said about memorable weapons being vanilla Destiny with few exceptions.

Calling Doctrine of Passing a "nobody weapon" is the peak of pretentious nonsense that can pop up in the fan base.

This right here is the attitude from some Destiny fans that is hard for me to take seriously. "lol no your weapon sucks" is not something I'll be arguing with any further.
 
Because it was rare and just shot a rocket that created smaller rockets. And I was referencing the meme because it was making fun of the casual mentality and how off guard everyone was. Nobody expected Ghorn to be such a stand out, and that implies that people weren't too hot on it before hand. There were just too many other 'cooler' weapons so everyone was sleeping on the Exotic Rocket Launcher.
It was week 2, the casual crowd wouldn't have had enough Strange Coins to buy it. They certainly wouldn't have been stocked with alternatives. Again, you don't seem to actually be talking about casuals despite it being what you started with, which is why I'm a little confused.
 

Kadin

Member
It's a good game. But eventually you will reach a point where you will have nothing else to do. To some that's great. To others that's a tragedy.
Yeah I don't expect the game to keep me playing month after month. I know others do and really want that but my expectation is a solid PvE experience (for solo at times), good PvP with friends and some end-game stuff (raids) to do here and there. If I get a solid month of playtime from these things, I'll be happy. Of course I would like to revisit after new content drops but I'm okay not wanting to play in between these times.
 

Eppy Thatcher

God's had his chance.
The ๖ۜBronx;251582054 said:
I think VoG was memorable because of the art direction and good mix of mechanics and bosses. I think Gjallarhorn was memorable because it was an extremely fun weapon to use that looked exotic and felt exotic. Putting it down to them being the first does them a large disservice and shrugs off many of the reasons people found them memorable. I'd actually wager that the majority feel no weapon has come close to feeling as exotic as Gjallarhorn since. Perhaps the Black Hammer, but then they nerfed that as well.

Sleeper felt appropriately different, powerful, exotic AND was hard but not impossible to acquire. I had really high hopes that they were trending harder towards these type of exotics in the game. I can maybe understand why they had to cut the arms off my Pocket Infinity and tune down the Gally and re-work the dots on Thorn. BUT - all those guns still felt exotic even if they weren't instant wins anymore.

Nothing in D2 feels as .... special... as those guns did.
 

Blueblur1

Member
On Power Level...

Power level is not a good thing at all. Light level was sloppy in Destiny 1, and they preserved problems from Destiny 1 while introducing new ones.

Destiny 1 light levels made it possible to under-level but not to over-level, which makes it feel like your character never gets more powerful. You get "less weak," but never "stronger." This is also true in Destiny 2. Power level isn't used as a requirement for equipping new weaponry, so gear strength and power level also aren't related. You also don't gain more health or deal more damage. Power level does nothing.

I agree that Power Level - or how character power is handled in general in Destiny - is frustrating. Unlike other games you never feel like your character becomes strong and rolls over lesser enemies. Obviously, this is a design choice by Bungie. Other games let the player become stronger and offer tougher challenges up to a certain point such as a certain stage or zone but Bungie has decided to always scale enemies with the player. Its something that has pros and cons. If enemies didn't scale then we'd be rolling over them which would be fun... up until we get bored of one-shotting everything. And if they're scaled the activity remains challenging but sometimes too challenging and you never feel powerful. Its a tough problem and I can't think of a solution myself.

And on top of this, you now can level to 305 through patrolling and just doing public events. Being max level in Destiny 1 during most of its expansions meant you had completed a good amount of the endgame content - but now, "endgame" content is trivialized by design - it's not an important part of the road to the strongest character. High level content is far less "worthwhile" as a result.

I COMPLETELY disagree that Public Events and Patrol shouldn't be rewarding. I very much appreciate that there are different paths to increased in Power in Destiny 2. I don't like being required to play the latest raid or have successful Trials matches to provide the ONLY increase in Power. I'm sure many people would agree especially folks who do not have friends to play with and those who cannot devote every day of their week to Destiny. I would be okay with making a small concession in this area though.

And that would be Bungie's previous approach: Allow the latest raid to provide slightly stronger items (5 Power Levels above other drops) that would only be advantageous for those who wish to repeat the raid and play the hard version of the raid. That way folks who aren't able to complete the raid aren't at a disadvantage in the rest of the game's activities.

On top of that issue, you don't need 305 for anything. As of next Tuesday, level 300 will be useful for the prestige raid and the prestige nightfall. We already know that the Prestigious Nightfall does not give you unique loot (the aura does not count, sorry), and the prestigious raid is looking to follow a relatively similar suit.

So to summarize, you can get 305 from anything, you don't need it for anything, and it doesn't do anything. It's too easy to level, yet simultaneously not worth it to even try anyway. It's clumsily tacked on to the game.

And that is a problem.

Its true that 305 really isn't necessary. There's no Power advantage considering the way Destiny handles player and enemy levels. I wouldn't say its clumsily tacked onto the game though. It is obviously an intentional design choice by Bungie.

The one thing that power level manages to do is spin a narrative that there's more to do after level 20. The mere existence of power level suggests that an endgame exists in which getting your power to the maximum level is valuable. Why would power level exist if you didn't need it for something? Why is it the most prominently displayed number on your emblem?

This is just hyperbolic. There's plenty to do after Level 20 since the player will only be around Power Level 200 when he/she hits 20. This reads to me as a lot of whining and crying because the raid won't bump you up another 5 levels. It hurts the writer's argument.


On Loot...

Good god, I want to cry for the loot. The loot pool was made shallow to the extent of maybe 100 legendary guns when Destiny 1 could have literally 182,000 variants of the same gun. This would probably be excusable if it felt like each gun was a work of art, but it feels like a handful of drops from Destiny 1 were taken at random and chosen to be the "fixed" Destiny 2 roll.

[...]

Why is Nameless Midnight seen as top tier by sole virtue of having explosive rounds, and more importantly, why is loot so wimpy that seeing Nameless Midnight that way isn't wrong??

Basically, we got a lot of mediocre rolls as our fixed versions of guns with no chance at anything better. The loot in Destiny 2 feels watered down so much that I'm starting to think it might just be water.

This is also a massive hit to replay value - yesterday I did my milestones for the week, dismantled the repeat gear I got from that, turned in the tokens I got from doing them, dismantled the repeat gear I got from that, then turned in the gunsmith parts I got from all that and dismantled the repeats I got from that. At the end of the day, I had managed to start back at square 1 - my factions didn't rank up (since that's not a thing anymore), and my gear wasn't better (since after about 200 hours I've gotten everything at least once).

Amassing loot and dismantling it felt like I was just making a mess in my inventory for the satisfaction of cleaning it up. I have not once in my years of experience with Destiny had such a strong feeling that I had wasted my time.

[...]

The worst part of it though is that there is absolutely 0 hope for better gear. There's no reason to check your second Nameless Midnight for outlaw, no chance of your Blue Shift having cluster bombs, not the remotest possibility that your Dire Promise will get the range perk it so desperately needs. Hope is gone from the loot-earning process, and when hope walks out the door, excitement follows out right behind it.

Set perks does result in less variety. I disagree that random perks is the answer though. The real answer to this problem is better weapons and more weapon and perk variety. Unfortunately, throughout the history of Destiny Bungie has failed in this area. The easy solution is going back to random perks.

On End-Game...

Destiny 2 seems to have a horrible identity crisis that has tarnished the RPG/MMOlike elements and, honestly, ruined them. I like the game and I'm glad I played it, but those aspects of my enjoyment in Destiny 1 were not once reignited during Destiny 2. Power level was a huge tease that set expectations in a place to deliver disappointment.

Power Level works the same way Light Level did. This is pure hyperbole.

Replayability being crippled into nothingness has utterly destroyed the social aspect of the game for me. My friends do not play and do not want to play anymore. It is very sad to see.

There is no doubt that the game has plenty of playability, and it's fun to play, but it cannot be treated as a hobby in its current state. I can't blame my friends for not playing, because the game feels intended to be beaten and moved on from. Bear in mind, I am one of those guys that play too much and so are my friends. This game does not work for that attitude at all, unfortunately for us.

The changes in D2 has revealed what was always true: there's very little reason to replay Destiny activities. That core problem with Destiny is now more obvious than ever because (a) there aren't 5-10 more Light Levels to chase after [End Game gear] and (b) there aren't random perks to keep players distracted. What we should be doing is pointing this out and asking Bungie to provide a solid solution to this. Going back to the way things were in D1 is not an improvement; its just a band-aid.

Balance has taken a lot of the fun out of loot and the crucible without adding anything meaningful. Those who like it more this way are almost certainly rivaled by numbers who don't, because there's no question that the change is a matter of taste purely - but having less cool pve weapons is doubtlessly less fun. Therefore, balance has hurt the game more than it helps in my opinion.

I wish they'd make a titan skating exotic.

People in a similar position to mine - on any level, and I am not the only person who has gotten more than 100 hours in these 5 weeks - want reason to keep playing the game, but will find none.

It leaves a lot to be desired.

I'm not sure what the author is referring to here aside from the Secondary Weapon change. Quite frankly, I didn't like it at first either but I've grown accustomed to D2's Kinetic-Energy-Power set-up. Honestly, this is the one thing I doubt will ever change during D2's life due to the considerable amount of work they put into it on the PvE and PvP sides. This is one those things players have to adapt to.


On Random Rolls & Reforging (rerolling)...

Stop making balance the central focus of the game. Nobody is going to look back in 8 years and say "Destiny 2 was so balanced, it was amazing," but people very well might think back on the rocket launcher that exploded into a wolf-pack of tiny homing rockets and obliterated nearly everything in the game.

Reintroduce randomized rolls but control for it better. Create a list of perks and their values from weak, ok, strong, and incredible. Give them appropriate rarities (25%,50%,20%,5% as an example) and then find an appropriate pace to reduce luck levels as playtime increases so you have some level of diminishing returns. Reward players in a way that respects their dedication, but doesn't put them on a totally different level.

Reintroduce reforging alongside random perks such that you combine two weapons into one, choosing which perks from both you want and scrapping the rest, so god rolls are possible to work towards. Critically here, godrolls would become unique to the individual and feel like a progressive endeavor rather than a slot machine. Someone could log on and work on making their perfect Mannanan SR4. This system would make repeat drops of many kinds valuable, and players would finally have some customization that isn't purely cosmetic.

The reforging idea is not a bad one. Its what other online games already do. D2 would benefit from a system like that since weapon variety is severely lacking in Vanilla D2. If Bungie were to implement a system like this alongside the addition of many new varied weapons and new perks it could result in something special. This is the only outstanding bit of the author's piece (based on the excerpts alone). If I can find time this week I will check out the rest of his/her post.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
Sleeper felt appropriately different, powerful, exotic AND was hard but not impossible to acquire. I had really high hopes that they were trending harder towards these type of exotics in the game. I can maybe understand why they had to cut the arms off my Pocket Infinity and tune down the Gally and re-work the dots on Thorn. BUT - all those guns still felt exotic even if they weren't instant wins anymore.

Nothing in D2 feels as .... special... as those guns did.

In terms of legendaries, nothing has stood out for me just yet but I have a couple exotics that definitely feel special. Coldheart is fun as hell to use and fireteams can melt bosses if everyone has one. Calus was a blast with most of us using Coldheart.

And the Wardcliff Coil rocket launcher is amazing.
 

void666

Banned
Wardcliff coil is my new gjallarhorn. No, it's not good for everything. But it's essential in some scenarios. Also it's unique and fun to use. It's the only weapon i have 1 for each character.
 
Considering all the negative experience with the end game content, it basically killed off the PC version. The developers will then blame piracy for that, and vow not to make a PC version again lol.
 

wuth

Member
The ๖ۜBronx;251584619 said:
It was week 2, the casual crowd wouldn't have had enough Strange Coins to buy it. They certainly wouldn't have been stocked with alternatives. Again, you don't seem to actually be talking about casuals despite it being what you started with, which is why I'm a little confused.

Maybe I'm just really bad at communicating.

I am talking about the casual crowd not knowing or even caring about Ghorn, and was criticizing your impression that the GHorn was memorable or standout beyond being infamous in the hard core crowd. Maybe I confused something somewhere along the way, but I brought up the meme to reinforce this point- even if we consider that the reddit meme wouldn't have made it to a casual audience, it stands to reason that the casual crowd would have been equally unimpressed with week 2's gun offering when Strange Coins were hard to come by and armor was available as an alternative.

I'm just not convinced Ghorn had a great rep outside of the hardcore crowd until much later when it became immortalized as a god killer and pre-order bonus.
 

void666

Banned
Considering all the negative experience with the end game content, it basically killed off the PC version. The developers will then blame piracy for that, and vow not to make a PC version again lol.

It's an always online game. I don't think piracy will be a problem...

People are so eager to shitpost they don't understand the issue with Destiny 2.

Is it a bad game? No. Period.
The problem is the casualization of the endgame. The lack of things to chase.
 

Listonosh

Member
Man, I agree with almost all of what was written there. I do like the change to static gun perks, since I don't necessarily like to chase the god roll weapon. But hot damn, if there's one word that kept getting repeated it's Balance. Balance is easily what I wanted addressed in D2 from D1. I wanted loadouts in Crucible, not our own weapons. Mainly because there always HAS to be that balance to make sure no gun is ever OP in PvP. But that makes the PvE way less fun.

There's a reason why Diablo 3 keeps chugging to this day, and that's because players are encouraged to find "broken" builds that do crazy damage with insane weapons and armor pieces. That's just not possible here, and it sort of ruins that experience. When I actively choose to always use Nameless Midnight over almost every other exotic because it outdamages them, that's a big problem.
 
Sleeper felt appropriately different, powerful, exotic AND was hard but not impossible to acquire. I had really high hopes that they were trending harder towards these type of exotics in the game. I can maybe understand why they had to cut the arms off my Pocket Infinity and tune down the Gally and re-work the dots on Thorn. BUT - all those guns still felt exotic even if they weren't instant wins anymore.

Nothing in D2 feels as .... special... as those guns did.
A very valid choice. Sleeper Simulant was a very cool weapon, and appropriately exotic in look and play. Certainly to the extent that Gjallarhorn starts to only compete in terms of accessibility and notoriety, and I wouldn't want to suggest I preferred the 500hr grind for Gjallahorn over the concept of an intricate questline rewarding it.

I think D2 has a few nice looking exotics but it's rare that they feel exotic in use. I got the Wardcliff and Merciless early on and thought they were signs of things to come. Sadly I still think they're about as much as their is, but I do feel that they are both good exotics. Perks are bland for the rest. There's just nothing that makes them coveted to the extent of seeking them, but also exotics as in an item class just don't feel exotic anymore.

I'm at 112 hours and haven't once seen an exotic on the ground. Just in the UI as an icon. Killing a boss and seeing a shiny gold engram fly out of it was a massive highlight of gameplay sought throughout the game. The separation between activity and reward (as in, kill boss, wait, open chest - or do mission, go to tower, turn in tokens, get reward) has probably been the most detrimental thing in the game for me.

It just doesn't feel exciting to get loot, and when you do it's nothing exciting.
 

ocean

Banned
Some people have fun shooting. Others have fun in an excel type of environment where the thrill is seeing numbers and bars go up.

Destiny 2 has been tuned to suit players who enjoy shooting. The other crowd is like “why what’s the point I have everything and my numbers won’t go higher”. While the rest of us are like “well shooting stuff is fun so that’s why I do it”.

You can really please both crowds. They made a compromise they thought would cater to the larger of those two crowds. Let’s see how it plays out.
 
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