Spyder_Monkey
Banned
The battle with Doomsday looks like it was made by an amateur using Unreal Engine 4.
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Batman Negotiations Break Down With Director Matt Reeves
- Thread starter ryan299
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The battle with Doomsday looks like it was made by an amateur using Unreal Engine 4.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
1989 sets > Returns sets
Razgriz-Specter
Member
No imo, Snyder movies look good/cool.
Returns at least to me in the 2 categories I mention are artistic masterpieces.
Those 2 elements are so strong I have probably seen Returns a hundred times in my life and its never gotten old.
BvS had great costumes and 2 cool fights, I have seen it 3 times and likely won't again for years.
I mean, that's fine obviously. I don't love it. But again, it was a well-received movie. It got good reviews and did well at the box office.
Chained Prometheus
Member
Yeah, I'm with Razgriz-Specter on this one: Batman Returns has a lot going for it aesthetically. The plot itself isn't all that strong, but visually Tim Burton was at the top of his game as a director and the Elfman score is superb.
I don't love Batman Returns for the story. I love it for how the film stimulates me creatively.
And while Snyder had some pretty cool stuff here and there with BvS visually, he ain't got nothin' on what Burton offered in 1992.
broncobuster
Banned
Returns' use of light and shadows is pretty excellent.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
89 was definitely more diverse looking and bigger feeling
But Gotham with snow and Christmas is such a great visual.
Strangelove77
Member
Batman Returns is a really good Burton film but not a great Batman/superhero film. Burton and Elfman were at the top of their game at that point and Burton was given more creative control and the aesthetics to this day are still fantastic. It's a great looking and original movie. Artistically, no Batman movie has yet to come close.
The entire cast were at the top of their game as well. It's one of each major actor's most memorable roles(Devito, Walken, Pfeifer, Keaton).
The story isn't anything special and there's a real lack of Batman in this Batman movie because Burton focused more on the villains, but it's still a pretty good ensemble movie. It handled all the main characters extremely well and you understood who they were and why they were the way they were, which is something BvS completely failed at.
The entire cast were at the top of their game as well. It's one of each major actor's most memorable roles(Devito, Walken, Pfeifer, Keaton).
The story isn't anything special and there's a real lack of Batman in this Batman movie because Burton focused more on the villains, but it's still a pretty good ensemble movie. It handled all the main characters extremely well and you understood who they were and why they were the way they were, which is something BvS completely failed at.
Why was Selina Kyle Catwoman? She fell out of a window and was partially eaten by cats and can now do martial arts and also has 9 lives for some reason?
Batman Returns feels a lot more like a superhero movie than TDK.
Strangelove77
Member
Yeah. Pretty much. I think she dies and the cats bring her back to life.
It's so blatantly ridiculous. There's no attempt to be scientific or logical about it. It's just fucking silly. That's what I like about it.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Yes?
Its dumb and different but isn't actually a negative. The whole ending is actually committing to the angle so it isn't a plot device that gets swept away immediately.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Returns = subpar story with multiple elements at the peak of the genre.
Batman Forever = so bad, it is enjoyable
Batman & Robin = on the line of so bad its good and bad-bad.
Catwoman = nothing redeemable at all, literally one of the worst things ever made.
Dark Knight = the best technical movie in the genre.
Batman v Superman = subpar to awful story and just full of "meh", it has nice snippets in there but it doesn't have technical elements of complete dominance.
Different tiers to it.
Strangelove77
Member
No, we've acknowledged that thing that tries to take itself too seriously and/or tries to be "deep" and fails at it is dumb.
Returns succeeded at what it tried to do, BvS didn't. Easy as that.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Yep. I like Returns though. It's a weird fucking movie, but that makes it at least interesting. The worst Batman movies are Forever and the Dark Knight Rises. Batman and Robin is so shitty that it circles around and becomes semi-entertaining, whereas Forever and the Dark Knight Rises are just shit.
Chained Prometheus
Member
I've always seen Batman Returns less as a story and more as a sort of fairy tale nightmare set during Christmas and it just so happens to have a few Batman characters in it.
The story itself doesn't make much of any sense, but the film is all about the atmosphere and mood for me.
The story itself doesn't make much of any sense, but the film is all about the atmosphere and mood for me.
That's actually a pretty good way to put it. I felt like I was watching a film told through dream logic. Didn't particularly enjoy what I was seeing, but I can understand appreciation for the atmosphere.
I should also clarify that aside from random snippets I had previously seen on TV, tonight was my first time ever watching the movie in it's entirety.
I haven't been one to really buy into the "you don't get it because you didn't pay attention" defense I see done with BvS. However, what Lex was thinking when it came to Doomsday is in the movie and it really didn't matter who won the title fight. And no, the reason given is not exclusive to the Ultimate Cut as it is also in the theatrical version.
"Blood of my blood."
Lex believes that the use of his blood when submitting Zod for mutation would put the abomination (Doomsday) under his control.
If you think I am just creating a head canon there then feel free to seek out some of the behind the scenes footage (perhaps Bleepey knows which one specifically). The filming of that scene has some extended dialog where Lex yells "Obeys only me!" Now you may be asking yourself, "Gee, Icon, why would they cut that out?" I have no idea, friends. As much as I love BvS I am not blind to its several glaring issues.
"Blood of my blood."
Lex believes that the use of his blood when submitting Zod for mutation would put the abomination (Doomsday) under his control.
If you think I am just creating a head canon there then feel free to seek out some of the behind the scenes footage (perhaps Bleepey knows which one specifically). The filming of that scene has some extended dialog where Lex yells "Obeys only me!" Now you may be asking yourself, "Gee, Icon, why would they cut that out?" I have no idea, friends. As much as I love BvS I am not blind to its several glaring issues.
1) Turn the world against Superman.
2) Put Batman vs Superman.
3) Have one of them kill the other.
4) Kill whoever wins.
5) Be the smartest man ever.
That's a pretty Lex plan. But only if you remember that in very few forms of stories is he actually smart.
Messofanego
Banned
I got this:
I hate comic book nerds.
Could be worst, they could make him a glorified doorman, the Marvel way.
I keep hearing people say shit along these lines and it makes no sense. Like seriously:
DC should do it the marvel way and do individual movies without rushing, they should have a clear strategy
The next moment:
DC shouldn't have foreshadowed so much, and focus on one movie at a time.
How can they have no strategy and yet constantly foreshadow a deeper story in their films.
Oh, wow that Africa zone. How unfortunate, lol.
She was pathetic, sad, a loser, disrespected, condescended to, and murdered like the nobody she was.
The (attempted? symbolic?) murder was the last straw. Catwoman was a rebirth. She came out of her shell. She was confident, finally able to live, finally able to do what she wanted, finally able to express herself.
Like, did you miss all that? Is it really all just concrete explanations and power levels for you?
She needed to be like Stark in Iron Man 3 and get over a mental affliction in thirty seconds.
Wait, so The Dark Knight, a movie filled with bad editing and several scenes with incredibly stupid camera angles, is the best technical movie in the genre? Guess this whole genre is one big technical mess.
Returns was sooo bad
First I hate the fact that they made Penguin and Catwoman a Man-penguin and a real Catwoman in the movie.
But ok, I can see that some people liked this. My biggest problem is the tone of the movie. At some times looks like Burton is trying to make a dark and serious story, with the tragic life of both Oswald and Selina...and at the next minute he's destroying the city with a giant rubber duck and she's licking her clothes like a cat
First I hate the fact that they made Penguin and Catwoman a Man-penguin and a real Catwoman in the movie.
But ok, I can see that some people liked this. My biggest problem is the tone of the movie. At some times looks like Burton is trying to make a dark and serious story, with the tragic life of both Oswald and Selina...and at the next minute he's destroying the city with a giant rubber duck and she's licking her clothes like a cat
Sho_Nuff82
Member
There is a difference between foreshadowing and putting scenes that are completely lacking in context (pending future works) in your film.
The Knightmare, the Flash sequence (both awkwardly juxtaposed on top of one another), and the appearance of Steppenwolf don't make sense in the context provided by the film, nor is it explained why these things are important or even happening. They only make sense to those of us who are fans of the source material, who would have a reason to know what a parademon, mother box, or time travel powers are. It almost doesn't work as a standalone film.
It's a bad habit if each successive film in the series is addressing the plot holes of the previous film, like BvS tried to do with the destruction at the end of MoS. I'd bet dollars to donuts we spend a significant amount of Justice League's runtime explaining what a mother box is (Cyborg's origin plus Apokolips mini-invasion), learning what a parademon is, that the Flash can travel through time, and learning how Lex got in contact with alien agents in the first place. Which would be fine, if they were parts 1&2 of the same film just cut in half, not two separate stories.
Yes. It is. On both counts.
Case in point is Joss cribbing the Rivendel ring manipulation from FOTR for Avengers, and doing a piss poor job of it. These films taking more time to be made and made well would be appreciated.
And yes, I include DCEU and Fox there. X-Men: Apocalypse needed another draft and six months more in editing,
His Ape movies are some of the best blockbusters in recent memory.
Actually im glad he's not locked into cape stuff, especially DCMU poison.
Discotheque
Banned
I'd actually love to see him do a horror movie of his own making after he wraps up production on war of the apes.
but i wouldn't mind if he did Batman because that's the only "cinematic universe" comic book movie i legit give a shit about. but yeah if what he's entering into is some hackjob studio mandated crap then I'd prefer he not waste his time either.
The talk of the old Batman films brings up a thought, is it weird that the old actors are not buff whatsoever for the roles and it doesn't matter one bit? They are even not that tall except Val at 6ft. Just goes to show what you don't need to make a good film, acting, story, atmosphere trumps muscles.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
What makes BP a glorified doorman?
He's talking about Heimdall.
kunonabi
Member
so like a comic book?
exmachina64
Banned
Bobby Roberts
Banned
"Several scenes with stupid camera angles" was an actual criticism of The Dark Knight I just read in here.
and people in the imdb thread told me that spirit couldn't possibly live on at GAF.
Anyway, the conventional wisdom on Returns has, over time, basically gotten boiled down to: One of Tim Burton's best movies, maybe one of the most TIM BURTON of Tim Burton's movies... that just happens to have a Batman and a Catwoman and a mutant Penguin-Thing in it.
It's definitely my favorite of the original four Batman movies. I like it better than Dark Knight Rises and maybe just a little more than Batman Begins, too.
and people in the imdb thread told me that spirit couldn't possibly live on at GAF.
Anyway, the conventional wisdom on Returns has, over time, basically gotten boiled down to: One of Tim Burton's best movies, maybe one of the most TIM BURTON of Tim Burton's movies... that just happens to have a Batman and a Catwoman and a mutant Penguin-Thing in it.
It's definitely my favorite of the original four Batman movies. I like it better than Dark Knight Rises and maybe just a little more than Batman Begins, too.
It is a reasonably accurate criticism, this scene is pretty infamous for how badly shot it is.
Although the film as a whole is fantastic, this scene and a few others are strangely sloppy. I wonder to what extent Nolan's preference for doing practical special effects are requiring compromises in other areas.
Similarly in TDKR the heist at the stock exchange starts off during lunch, but then it's pitch black in what can't be more than an hour later in the movie.
I don't think you know what badly shot means.
What does it mean, because I think it means it was shot badly.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Furst was amazing. You speak the truth.
Can you please point out where he said DC shouldn't have foreshadowed things? I read the post twice, and I still don't see it.
The movie felt like it was shot on the same two sound stages. Very claustrophobic and limited in scope. I'm happy Chris Nolan opened the city up in Begins and The Dark Knight
Heh Begins had a similar problem with the "Narrows", they were so obviously sets. TDK is the one where it feels it's set in an actual city. Because it is.
Discotheque
Banned
Yeah. But he made it a point to shift to a more Mann influenced aesthetic too which meant he had to make Gotham a city free of any stylistic comic book appearance. Even Bruce's new place reminds me of somewhere Neil from Heat or Crockett from Miami Vice would be peering out of in one of those dope introspective shots lol.
I loved that about TDK. And to me it's still the best looking comic book movie over BvS and a few other candidates
But I don't mind if the next batman movie makes Gotham look more exaggerated and pulpy again. That little glimpse we got of it in batmans introduction in the last movie was cool. Seemed like Snyder was trying to ape 90s Fincher there
Mix Master
Member
folks calling TDK sloppy and shit lol. The gap between TDK and the rest of the cape films is so fucking wide that it's not even funny. that's how low the bar is.
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