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chadskin · Feb 19, 2017

British officials believe Russian authorities were behind a plot in October to kill Montenegro's pro-Western prime minister, the Sunday Telegraph newspaper reported, citing senior British government sources.

The British newspaper reported on Sunday that senior British officials believed there had been a plot to kill Djukanovic, and that Russia had constructed it in a way that it could be blamed on rogue Russian nationalists if uncovered.

"You are talking about a plot to disrupt or take over a government in some way. You can't imagine that there wasn't some kind of approval process," the newspaper quoted one unnamed source as saying.

The newspaper said Britain and the United States' intelligence agencies had gathered evidence of high-level Russian involvement in the plot for Montenegro's government.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-montenegro-election-britain-idUSKBN15Y00R

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The plot, as reported back in November 2016:

In order to overthrow the government of Montenegro, conspirators planned to kill Prime Minister Milo Djukanovic, said the countrys special affairs prosecutor Milivoje Katnich on November 6. According to investigators, Djukanovic was to be shot dead by a sniper on election day (October 16, 2016). This is why the Prime Minister was being spied on by conspirators. Afterwards, they hoped to overtake the Parliament of Montenegro. It was also planned that 500 Serbian militants and activists would penetrate the country and one of the opposition parties was to take hold of power. Katnich did not specify which one. According to newspaper Kommersant, however, this was to be pro-Russian political party Democratic Front, which had announced protests shortly before elections.

The coup detat had been brainstormed by two "Russia nationalists" who had found a person in Serbia to train terrorists to seize power, the prosecutor said.

Amongst the 14 people who have been detained are those who fought in the Donbass on the side of pro-Russian separatists. Their names have not been specified. According to Kommersant, one of them is Aleksander Sindzhelich, leader of nationalist organization Serbian wolves. Sindzhelich spent several months in Ukraine and also recruited volunteers from Serbia. Belgrade agreed to give Sindzhelich over to Montenegrin authorities. He is now giving testimony on the other participants of the failed coup.

The purpose of the coup was to prevent Montenegros accession to NATO. The Democratic Party of Socialists, led by Milo Djukanovic, won 41 percent of the vote in the election. The heart of its platform was Montenegro's integration into the EU and NATO. The party opposed the Democratic Front, which is openly supported by Moscow and pro-Kremlin political party United Russia. The prosecutor's office believes that Djukanovic became the target of conspirators because of his pro-Western rhetoric. It is expected that Montenegro will become a full member of NATO in spring 2017.

The Kremlin denied any involvement in the coup attempt. We categorically deny the possibility of any official involvement in organizing illegal actions, said the Kremlins spokesperson Dmitry Peskov.

https://meduza.io/en/feature/2016/11/07/russians-accused-of-attempting-a-coup-in-montenegro

norinrad · Feb 19, 2017

The Soviets are back and we are going to have to live with it.

GameAddict411 · Feb 19, 2017

norinrad said:
The Soviets are back and we are going to have to live with it.

The world is going back to what it used to be. All the progress the past few decades down the drain. A tragic turn of event in my opinion. I wonder what sort of future our children going to have?

Xe4 · Feb 19, 2017

"What do you think - our country's so innocent?"

An actual thing the president of the US in response to Putin putting out assassination orders.

Antiwhippy · Feb 19, 2017

Xe4 said:
"What do you think - our country's so innocent?"

An actual thing the president of the US in response to Putin putting out assassination orders.

Let's not pretend America never tried to desposed another country's ruler.

But yes, obviously not to the level of Russia.

chadskin · Feb 19, 2017

norinrad said:
The Soviets are back and we are going to have to live with it.

At least we're probably going to get a good movie out of this.

Xe4 · Feb 19, 2017

Antiwhippy said:
Let's not pretend America never tried to desposed another country's ruler.

But yes, obviously not to the level of Russia.

We certainly didn't do it to a first world European country, nor as frequently as Russia.

In fact, I can't think of the last member of government the US assassinated. Mostly because the people in the US would crucify any president who got caught, but in Russia, all the opposition has been crushed.

wisdom0wl · Feb 19, 2017

Being born in the mid-90s, can someone tell me what it was like during the height of the Cold War? Is it this feeling of uneasiness/tension all the time, and how does the current climate stack up?

Antiwhippy · Feb 19, 2017

Xe4 said:
We certainly didn't do it to a first world European country, nor as frequently as Russia.

In fact, I can't think of the last member of government the US assassinated. Mostly because the people in the US would crucify any president who got caught, but in Russia, all the opposition has been crushed.

No, America's way is more using direct interventions or to fund rebel groups to destabilise the region.

Razgriz-Specter · Feb 19, 2017

wisdom0wl said:
Being born in the mid-90s, can someone tell me what it was like during the height of the Cold War? Is it this feeling of uneasiness/tension all the time, and how does the current climate stack up?

I was only born in 1990

SteveWD40 · Feb 19, 2017

wisdom0wl said:
Being born in the mid-90s, can someone tell me what it was like during the height of the Cold War? Is it this feeling of uneasiness/tension all the time, and how does the current climate stack up?

It was worse in the 80's by a long way, and probably far worse in the late 50's / early 60's.

Fact is Russia is now a capitalist country flexing, they have no interest in an actual war.

Watch Threads and The Day After to get a feel for the vibe in the 80's, where ICBM's flying seemed inevitable.

wisdom0wl · Feb 19, 2017

Razgriz-Specter said:
I was only born in 1990

damn lol. One of the high schools in my hometown had a bunker of sorts (I think) built in its basement and me and my friends snooped around in it. Pretty creepy tbh

wisdom0wl · Feb 19, 2017

SteveWD40 said:
It was worse in the 80's by a long way, and probably far worse in the late 50's / early 60's.

Fact is Russia is now a capitalist country flexing, they have no interest in an actual war.

Watch Threads and The Day After to get a feel for the vibe in the 80's, where ICBM's flying seemed inevitable.

Sweet, im a sucker for the whole era. Any other movies/documentary recommends?

Lostconfused · Feb 19, 2017

Xe4 said:
We certainly didn't do it to a first world European country, nor as frequently as Russia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World

Originally defined as countries that allied against the soviets/communists. So it should be pretty obvious as to why that would be the case.

hawk2025 · Feb 19, 2017

I swear, sometimes I feel like we'll be in the train on the way to the camps in a few years and some edgelord will make sure to get up and say:

"To be fair, let's not pretend blah blah fucking blah"

Any Questions · Feb 19, 2017

Xe4 said:
"What do you think - our country's so innocent?"

An actual thing the president of the US in response to Putin putting out assassination orders.

Although I agree with the Turd man on this, America has itself many times influenced other governments and no doubt bumped off this man or that man. It doesn't help when you admit it.

GAF A60-Rim A · Feb 19, 2017

I'm sure it's not just about EU/NATO, but that may have sped up things.

Up until the dissolution of Serbia and Montenegro, the majority of business enterprises in Montenegro were state-owned. Following independence, mass privatization swallowed up many of Montenegro's former-state companies. Privatization in Montenegro has been recognized among Russian officials as a matter of controversy since 2005, when Vladimir Vaniev (at the time representing the Russian Consulate in Podgorica) said sarcastically in a press conference regarding the privatization of Montenegrin aluminum-producer KAP that "he didn't know that Montenegro was the 51st state of the United States." Vaniev also accused the Montenegrin press of being funded "in dollars" by the United States in order to support a disproportionate privatization wave for the benefit of American interests.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MontenegroRussia_relations#Controversies

Ozigizo · Feb 19, 2017

First page whataboutism.

You guys are slipping.

daviyoung · Feb 19, 2017

wisdom0wl said:
Sweet, im a sucker for the whole era. Any other movies/documentary recommends?

Command and Control, Dr Strangelove and The Atomic Cafe

Antiwhippy · Feb 19, 2017

hawk2025 said:
I swear, sometimes I feel like we'll be in the train on the way to the camps in a few years and some edgelord will make sure to get up and say:

"To be fair, let's not pretend blah blah fucking blah"

Why bring up a quote that is entirely unrelated to the topic then?

You also seem to think that every poster is in agreement with american exceptionalism.

But whatever, this does show a scary overreach of russian influence and I hope the weakening of nato does not bring more of it.

milanbaros · Feb 19, 2017

Antiwhippy said:
Let's not pretend America never tried to desposed another country's ruler.

But yes, obviously not to the level of Russia.

Not to the level of Russia? Is that a joke? You two were as bad as each other through the whole Cold War and America has been much worse following that. It is only recently Russia has started these external actions again.

Ruddles72 · Feb 19, 2017

SteveWD40 said:
It was worse in the 80's by a long way, and probably far worse in the late 50's / early 60's.
Fact is Russia is now a capitalist country flexing, they have no interest in an actual war.
Watch Threads and The Day After to get a feel for the vibe in the 80's, where ICBM's flying seemed inevitable.

Great recommendations, but REALLY only watch Threads if you're in the mood for (and tolerant of) some pretty bleak and harrowing hours of television.

Grew up in the 70s, it really did feel like there could be nuclear war. But I think the generation that lived through the Cuban Missile Crisis had it worst, people a bit older than me have talked to me about it and several of them have said they actually thought nuclear war would break out that day. Scary stuff.

Xe4 · Feb 19, 2017

Antiwhippy said:
No, America's way is more using direct interventions or to fund rebel groups to destabilise the region.

Not destabilize, put someone in charge who agrees with the US interests. In all matters of fact, the US prefers the world to be stable. It's also generally why we keep brutal dictators in charge, because when we don't Iraq happens.

In any case, there's a large gap between funding rebels and assassinating world leaders. Funding rebel groups can be a morally grey area, in the case of Syria (or not grey in the case of the Contra), but it is way better than straight up assassinating prime ministers.

Lostconfused said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World

Originally defined as countries that allied against the soviets/communists. So it should be pretty obvious as to why that would be the case.

Fair point, though nowadays the 1st world has a different meaning. In any case, the end goal for Russia is a less stable EU, so it's not surprising they want to get rid of pro-EU figures.

milanbaros said:
Not to the level of Russia? Is that a joke? You two were as bad as each other through the whole Cold War and America has been much worse following that. It is only recently Russia has started these external actions again.

Pu-fucking-lease dude. The US isn't/wasn't great, but we were not in any way shape or form equal to the brutality of the Soviet Union. Just look at the purges under Stalin or the Berlin Wall to see your argument collapse.

Nor was Russia any better than the US after the Soviet Union fell. To think that is to ignore what's been going on in the countries near Russia that want sovereignty.

Armaros · Feb 19, 2017

Amazing to see gaffers fall down the whataboutism line regarding Russia. Which is actual official propaganda doctrine of the Soviets and Putin.

Yes you are using a standard Soviet Propaganda technique to unironically defend Russia. Which is exactly what they want to happen.

dejay · Feb 19, 2017

wisdom0wl said:
Being born in the mid-90s, can someone tell me what it was like during the height of the Cold War? Is it this feeling of uneasiness/tension all the time, and how does the current climate stack up?

This following was part of the zeitgeist when I was a kid, as well as the leaflets that went with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6U9T3R3EQg

Also, as mentioned above, the movie "Threads" is the most harrowing horror movie I have ever seen. I watched it as a kid and saw it a couple of years ago again. There was a full version of it on Youtube, but I can only find a poor, zoomed in version on YT now, which cuts off much of the narrative text.

The movie is fun because whilst the leaflets suggested that building a fallout room and waiting for the all clear was a good move, in reality you're pretty much gonna be fucked no matter what.

Also, good music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXWVpcypf0w

scamander · Feb 19, 2017

Xe4 said:
Not destabilize, put someone in charge who agrees with the US interests. In all matters of fact, the US prefers the world to be stable. It's also generally why we keep brutal dictators in charge, because when we don't Iraq happens.

The US prefers the Western World to be stable. They don't fucking care at all, about the rest of the world. But hey, on the plus side, the Middle East is still in this fucked up state you put it in 60 years later, so thanks CIA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat#Iran

Pu-fucking-lease dude. The US isn't/wasn't great, but we were not in any way shape or form equal to the brutality of the Soviet Union. Just look at the purges under Stalin or the Berlin Wall to see your argument collapse.

EDIT: Sorry, I should have known better to blindly trust a to me unknown "source".

Pizza con salsiccia · Feb 19, 2017

hawk2025 said:
I swear, sometimes I feel like we'll be in the train on the way to the camps in a few years and some edgelord will make sure to get up and say:

"To be fair, let's not pretend blah blah fucking blah"

You need to get your shit together, we're nowhere near that, and not heading towards that either.

MattKeil · Feb 19, 2017

wisdom0wl said:
Being born in the mid-90s, can someone tell me what it was like during the height of the Cold War? Is it this feeling of uneasiness/tension all the time, and how does the current climate stack up?

It's not remotely to the level it was in the '80s when I was growing up. Back then the notion of nuclear annihilation was a daily acknowledged concern. Even as an 8 year old I was sort of half expecting to see a flash on the horizon at any time, especially after the TV movie The Day After aired. I mean stuff like The Terminator seemed almost optimistic in the way it depicted a global nuclear holocaust as not humanity's fault.

So yeah, it's not there yet. Could get there, though. I hope not, it wasn't fun.

Nivash · Feb 19, 2017

scamander said:
The US prefers the Western World to be stable. They don't fucking care at all, about the rest of the world. But hey, on the plus side, the Middle East is still in this fucked up state you put it in 60 years later, so thanks CIA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat#Iran

http://www.globalresearch.ca/a-timeline-of-cia-atrocities/5348804

There's a point to be made about US actions in the Middle East, but please don't use globalresearch.ca as a source. It's a known conspiracy site, little better than Infowars.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch

Zaventem · Feb 19, 2017

All this to sabotage the a plan to join nato.

Joni · Feb 19, 2017

It is time to move up the Doomsday Clock again it seems.

PKrockin · Feb 19, 2017

These days it seems like we can never go more than a few posts about some horrible Russia news without someone using the good old "and you are lynching negros" deflection to derail the thread, even when the topic has nothing to do with America.

Skyzard · Feb 19, 2017

Russians became more active in this way since the Iraq war and then the "Arab Spring". They're taking cues from the west. "If they can do it, so can we."

Agram · Feb 19, 2017

Serbia is definitely the most dangerous country in the world. They constantly promise war and always had this idea of Great Serbia. The only reason they are so cocky is because they suck up to Russia and now with Trump being pro-Russia, more situations like this will happen. They want to split Bosnia, want war in Kosovo...
If WW3 ever happens, it will start in Balkans.

triplestation · Feb 19, 2017

Lotta killers

scamander · Feb 19, 2017

Nivash said:
There's a point to be made about US actions in the Middle East, but please don't use globalresearch.ca as a source. It's a known conspiracy site, little better than Infowars.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch

Wow, sorry! I didn't know the site, was in a hurry and blindly trusted its WOT rating, without further fact checking. :/ Should have known better.

Kas · Feb 19, 2017

Agram said:
Serbia is definitely the most dangerous country in the world. They constantly promise war and always had this idea of Great Serbia. The only reason they are so cocky is because they suck up to Russia and now with Trump being pro-Russia, more situations like this will happen. They want to split Bosnia, want war in Kosovo...
If WW3 ever happens, it will start in Balkans.

That's what I keep saying.

That Serbian/Kosovo train incident was a powder keg just waiting to ignite, and that's just one thing.

It'll be interesting to see what happens.

d9b · Feb 19, 2017

Agram said:
Serbia is definitely the most dangerous country in the world. They constantly promise war and always had this idea of Great Serbia. The only reason they are so cocky is because they suck up to Russia and now with Trump being pro-Russia, more situations like this will happen. They want to split Bosnia, want war in Kosovo...
If WW3 ever happens, it will start in Balkans.

Unfortunately I have to agree.

SteveWD40 · Feb 19, 2017

wisdom0wl said:
Sweet, im a sucker for the whole era. Any other movies/documentary recommends?

On a much brighter tone, check out War Games, it's a "kids" film but still deals with the absolute assurance of WW3 in the 80's (until Ferris Bueller plays tic tac toe).

Oersted · Feb 19, 2017

Antiwhippy said:
No, America's way is more using direct interventions or to fund rebel groups to destabilise the region.

You oppose both and not use it for whataboutisms, right?

OverBlood 3 · Feb 19, 2017

Unrelated but they assassinated Litvinenko on U.K. soil who was at the time a British citizen with nuclear poisoning.

Nothing happened though. Who just lets that happen.

norinrad · Feb 19, 2017

Agram said:
Serbia is definitely the most dangerous country in the world. They constantly promise war and always had this idea of Great Serbia. The only reason they are so cocky is because they suck up to Russia and now with Trump being pro-Russia, more situations like this will happen. They want to split Bosnia, want war in Kosovo...
If WW3 ever happens, it will start in Balkans.

The events that lead to Independence for Kosovo has been lurking in the background for a while.

SteveWD40 · Feb 19, 2017

OverBlood 3 said:
Unrelated but they assassinated Litvinenko on U.K. soil who was at the time a British citizen with nuclear poisoning.

Nothing happened though. Who just lets that happen.

Well, what were the UK going to do about it? The UK govt don't give a shit about some Russian expat who pissed off Putin, not enough to do anything about it. I imagine back channels communicated we were pissed off and they said "sorry not sorry" and that was that.

Liberty4all · Feb 19, 2017

wisdom0wl said:
Being born in the mid-90s, can someone tell me what it was like during the height of the Cold War? Is it this feeling of uneasiness/tension all the time, and how does the current climate stack up?

I was born in 76.

In the mid 80s (I was around 9 or 10) I distinctly remember my dad saying to me it would be best if we were nuked that we be in the direct blast radius and instantly incinerated, because otherwise we would die horribly from radiation sickness if we didn't die of thirst first.

The climate right now is NOTHING like the gnawing fear of a US/Soviet nuclear war everyone had back then.

I think that a part of it is back then the Soviets were hated and feared whereas now Russia is seen as weak. I also think that nowadays people feel the world is so interconnected a miscalculation could never happen. With that said, the current climate certainly doesn't feel like the happy relieved days of Boris Yeltsin when the Soviet Union had collapsed, and America and capitalism had "won".

In the 90s the fear of nuclear annihilation receded. While not currently at Soviet Union levels, that quiet dread is creeping back. And while not a popular opinion on GAF, I'm glad it's not Hillary at the wheel ... I believe she was a hawk when it came to Russia and would have escalated tensions.

OverBlood 3 · Feb 19, 2017

SteveWD40 said:
Well, what were the UK going to do about it? The UK govt don't give a shit about some Russian expat who pissed off Putin, not enough to do anything about it. I imagine back channels communicated we were pissed off and they said "sorry not sorry" and that was that.

I don't know what I competent government would do. Not a clue.

Doesn't give a lot of assurances to people escaping mental regimes or his widow and 3 children. Just because a country doesn't like you doesn't mean you get to use nuclear weapons in another country and get away with it like nothing happened. Off topic anyway.

QuicheFontaine · Feb 19, 2017

OverBlood 3 said:
I don't know what I competent government would do. Not a clue.

Doesn't give a lot of assurances to people escaping mental regimes or his widow and 3 children. Just because a country doesn't like you doesn't mean you get to use nuclear weapons in another country and get away with it like nothing happened. Off topic anyway.

Ehh, I think that usage of "nuclear weapons" is a little misleading

Antiwhippy · Feb 19, 2017

Oersted said:
You oppose both and not use it for whataboutisms, right?

Well yeah.

Notice how I said america isn't to the level of russia.

Hitman · Feb 19, 2017

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...erthrow-montenegros-government-assassinating/

Great article that goes in depth on this situation.

MagnaderAlpha · Feb 19, 2017

SteveWD40 said:
It was worse in the 80's by a long way, and probably far worse in the late 50's / early 60's.

Fact is Russia is now a capitalist country flexing, they have no interest in an actual war.

Watch Threads and The Day After to get a feel for the vibe in the 80's, where ICBM's flying seemed inevitable.

I remember you couldn't escape it in the 80s. It is why many believe the excess behavior of the people during that decade was a result of not knowing if there was going to be a tomorrow. I recall, being just a kid and hearing about some of the stuff on the news, I asked my mom if we were going to die soon. Grim, especially from a 5-year old, but even that young, you could sense the tension in the air.

Don't get me wrong, I love the 80s (the good times outweighed the bad for me), and a nostalgia driven part of me would love to return to it someday... but not like this. When ever people think back to the "good old days" of the decades during the Cold War, it is always an idealistic version of those decades. They forget all the shit that, taking one long look at, you'd say, "Okay, yeah, nah. I don't don't wanna experience that bullshit again. Forget about going back, I'm fine right were I am!"

HarryKS · Feb 19, 2017

Dude is very tall.

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