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Has Valve ruined TF2?

Davidion

Member
No Means Nomad said:
If Team Fortress 2 isn't balanced I want you to lay it on me. What about it is unbalanced? Don't say crits, because you can play on servers without them.

Which classes are unbalanced? Which classes are actually bad? I see all of the classes getting good rotation, and any of them can top the score chart, so at what point does the balance get tipsy?

Bingo. Not a single person who's been going on about how TF2 is so "unbalanced" can make a single argument supporting their case. That's mainly because they don't have a point, but that's another conversation.

I also like people who criticize crits as being unbalancing. Because you know, you never benefit from them or anything.
 
Davidion said:
Bingo. Not a single person who's been going on about how TF2 is so "unbalanced" can make a single argument supporting their case. That's mainly because they don't have a point, but that's another conversation.

I also like people who criticize crits as being unbalancing. Because you know, you never benefit from them or anything.

Also, they "claiming" unbalance is happening when honestly, the medic mods brought something that was sorely needed to the game--- MEDICS!

I can't tell you how many times we had 4 snipers, 2 scouts, 3 heavy's 4 demos, 2 soldiers, 2 pyros, 3 engineers and no f'ning medic.

One thing I appreciate about this is it enforcing the balance that was already there. Teams can't win without a medic. You just can't. Valve knew this and I'm sure a whole new rash of "n00ber" medics will be born into full time medics that appreciate the class more.

Crits---- those are just happen chance and are luck of the draw. People that bitch about being hit by crits I usually respond with "cry more n00b"--- because if you get hit with a crit rocket that you didn't bother to get out of the way, then you truly suck at the game.
 

Sciz

Member
VictimOfGrief said:
Crits---- those are just happen chance and are luck of the draw. People that bitch about being hit by crits I usually respond with "cry more n00b"--- because if you get hit with a crit rocket that you didn't bother to get out of the way, then you truly suck at the game.
I don't have a problem with the long distance crit rockets, it's the point blank ones that get me. But I benefit from crits plenty too, so I've learned to just take the hits and roll with it.

New achievements and new weapons are fine, tying the new weapons to the new achievements is phenomenally stupid.
 

Davidion

Member
Sciz said:
I don't have a problem with the long distance crit rockets, it's the point blank ones that get me. But I benefit from crits plenty too, so I've learned to just take the hits and roll with it.

New achievements and new weapons are fine, tying the new weapons to the new achievements is phenomenally stupid.

Exactly
 
Sciz said:
I don't have a problem with the long distance crit rockets, it's the point blank ones that get me. But I benefit from crits plenty too, so I've learned to just take the hits and roll with it.

New achievements and new weapons are fine, tying the new weapons to the new achievements is phenomenally stupid.

Well if that's the case, Valve may deploy the next round differently. Sounds like this stuff is still a WIP.
 
I think one good thing about Valve releasing the weapon upgrades one at a time is that they can fix problems before they release the next class's weapons.

Tying weapons to achievements was ridiculous, but I'm mostly against achievements anyway. I don't see the need to add them to a game that is team-based and should be focused on accomplishing team objectives. Isn't that a big enough achievement? People should be worried about capturing the next control point, not trying to kill a certain amount of people with a fucking uber scout or punching heavy.

No one plays the medic class because it is boring and doesn't let people blow anything up. It's too soon to see how the new weapon unlocks will change medic gameplay, but I have a feeling that the core healing component of the medic class isn't going to change enough to get more people interested. At the end of the day, the core of the medic is still going to be standing behind someone else and holding down a button.

Goldrush is a lot of fun, but it really needs a few tweaks, in my opinion. But hopefully Valve will address those issues in the next patch.
 
I don't understand the need for achievements. Were people asking for them? Valve should of just released the new weapons instead of trying to create an artificial interest in medics. Some people just aren't going to play medic so what’s the point of this. After they farm for the achievements, they'll move right along. I like to play medic and I'd rather they had given my the new weapons right of the bat instead of having to work to get them (I'm lazy).

Are the achievements something for players to work towards? I don't think TF2 players need something to play towards other than working as a team and wining, not personal records.
Btw, this hasn't ruined tf2 at all, I just would've like them do go about another way. Most of the farming has died down and my main servers are back to normal.
 

firex

Member
tying them to achievements is fine, they just needed to come up with better achievements. A lot of the medic ones are retarded.
 

aeolist

Banned
I look forward to Valve perpetuating this retarded situation for the next year as they release 1 class's achievements/unlockable weapon pack spaced out just enough to keep the insane achievement whores running from one class to the next behaving like autistic chimps.

Sure, the medic rush will die down eventually. That's when they'll release the next class pack.
 

nestea

Member
aeolist said:
I look forward to Valve perpetuating this retarded situation for the next year as they release 1 class's achievements/unlockable weapon pack spaced out just enough to keep the insane achievement whores running from one class to the next behaving like autistic chimps.

Sure, the medic rush will die down eventually. That's when they'll release the next class pack.

I'm curious, what does Valve have to gain by continuing to release this free content? I don't think they're doing it just to piss off the player base. They wanted to continue to provide additional content to keep it's users interested in the game, they thought class specific achievements and unlockable weapons would keep people busy and entertained and miscalculated the reception.
 

LAMBO

Member
Wow that's really dumb, just give everyone access to everthing so the game is balanced. If they want to offer unlockables it should be things that don't effect gameplay. This probably even worse than valve trying to sell you the weapons, because at least the games currently being played wouldn't be ruined.

I can't fathom playing an online game were everyone doesn't start on an even playing field.
 

Slavik81

Member
No, because they'll be separating the weapons from the achievements at some point. And Goldrush is pretty awesome. I'm sure Valve will look at people's complaints and make sure to learn from their mistakes with the next patch.

Mr_Moogle said:
So every server I go to....theres medics everywhere just standing around farming their achievements. Wtf is this shit? What happened to actually playing the game?
What servers are you playing on? I've just been hoping into pubs with the lowest pings and player counts closest to 24. The only server I saw farming on was a passworded server dedicated to that purpose. I went to it in hopes of getting the two stupid achievements (Blunt Trauma and Big Pharma).

Find a decent server and stick with it.
 

Slavik81

Member
SleepingInsomniac said:
Were people asking for them?
I suspect it came from all the praise CoD4 got.

Sciz said:
New achievements and new weapons are fine, tying the new weapons to the new achievements is phenomenally stupid.
Particularly when there are retarded achievements that you cannot reasonably expect to get during normal play.
 

Rayven

aka surume
firex said:
tying them to achievements is fine, they just needed to come up with better achievements. A lot of the medic ones are retarded.
Yup. Encouraging un-team-like play in a game with team in the title was one of the dumbest moves I've seen from Valve.

I think they did ruin it. Short term, perhaps, but ruined it all the same.
 

Twig

Banned
The thing is, I love achievements, but I hate achievement whores.

I love doing something crazy, whether on complete accident, or just because I'm on a roll, and getting that message that I got Triage* or whatever.

It's not the achievements that ruin the game, it's the assholes who only care about their e-peen. I wish there was a way to keep the achievement requirements completely hidden from the players. But I know that's impossible, so multiplayer games are sadly better off without them. ):

Speaking of Triage, I got it last night on complete accident! It was awesome.
 

GameGamer

Member
nestea said:
Just because you don't like the game doesn't mean there is something wrong with the game


I go out of my way to put IMO in what I say. And that still isn't obvious enough to you?
 

GameGamer

Member
Kifimbo said:
Then what is wrong with the game ? Stop saying "It's junk" and "I'll wait for TF3" and explain what you don't like, why it's unbalanced and what is wrong with the game. Since you played 20 hours, you should be able to do that, unless you are here to troll.


Troll a thread called "Has Valve ruined TF2?" with my agreement?
 

GameGamer

Member
Dina said:
Eitherway, I'll leave this thread now. Let me close by saying that they haven't ruined it by any means. It's just not TFCv2 and that makes me sad.


I agree. It's just not the same game as TFC. They should have just left the 2 out and closed the series.


TFCv2 from Valve where did you go?
 

nestea

Member
GameGamer said:
I go out of my way to put IMO in what I say. And that still isn't obvious enough to you?

You didn't say the game didn't appeal to your tastes, you said "in my opinion" the game is junk, that's the point I was getting at.
 
TFCv2 is never going to come so you can blame John Cook and Robin Walker. TF2 is more how they envisioned Team Fortress to be according to some interview that I can't find, but I'm sure that it's out there somewhere.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=185321 said:
Can you make a Spy knife that backstabs from the front?

Walker: [Laughs] This... has been talked about. [All laugh] I think it's going to be called the Knife of Jordan. Anyone looking at this is going to say "Well are you going to do this? Are you going to do that?" And the answer to all of them is "Probably." We've been shipping [updates] two or three times a week consistently since we shipped [TF2]. We aim to maintain that progress, but instead of it just being about bug-fixes it's about more content.

Oh dear. Think about the children, Robin. Now everyone will want to play Spy. :waghface:


This is it: complete proof that Valve is making their games more "fun" and accessible for the whole family. They so aren't trying to make the game more hardcore like the Starcraft II developers, who are trying to make more micromanagement than the original game.
 
You know I have absolutely no interest in this game (I have the orange box but didn't touch TF2 other than the commentaries) but I always find it fascinating when fans discuss this game.
 

Zek

Contempt For Challenge
They didn't ruin anything, but the aftermath of this achievement grinding has been pretty painful. I think Valve will get a clue from the backlash and tone it down for next time, just like they fixed the ridiculously hard achievements. I'm guessing you won't be required to get nearly as many achievements for the milestones in the future.
 
Problem is less the mere presence of achievements and more the way in which they were handled (process + unlocks) combined with only adding achievements in for one class. COD4 handled unlocks in a better way, and as a result I've never seen the same behavior I'm seeing in TF2 now.
 

YYZ

Junior Member
firex said:
tying them to achievements is fine, they just needed to come up with better achievements. A lot of the medic ones are retarded.
this is correct, the achievements are too arbitrary. I think Valve was trying to give them longevity by going for ridiculous things like bonesawing other medics 50 times or needling a scout to death 50 times. Let's be honest here, you should never find yourself alone with a scout if you're playing medic properly, especially since you'd be healing whatever class that should be killing the scout (who has low health to begin with). The achievements like the triage one, group health, double blind trial are all pretty good. Big pharma is good, but the number is too high, you have to play on a really crappy server to get 20 kill assists with a heavy with neither of you dying. The friends list ones are ok, but Valve bans a lot of people from the Steam community so some people can't even get those.

I would have no problems with getting beneficial achievements like "heal X amount for every minute that you're alive in one round" or "heal a total of _______" which they do have (Chief of Staff). The Intern and Specialist achievement encourage me to abandon whoever I'm healing just to stay alive rather than increase his chance of staying alive. Anti-medic gameplay imo.
 

Ysiadmihi

Banned
"Ruined" is a little strong, but it's no longer fun to me. Medics have always mattered too much in TF2, giving people more incentive to play them is just dumb.
 

YYZ

Junior Member
Ysiadmihi said:
"Ruined" is a little strong, but it's no longer fun to me. Medics have always mattered too much in TF2, giving people more incentive to play them is just dumb.
in an FPS game, extending your life and enhancing your killing ability is of the utmost importance, but most players don't realize this. The most important thing for a medic and his partner is protecting the medics life and many of these achievements are in opposition to this fact.
 
Nah, Valve didn't ruin TF2. It was getting stale anyway, so if anything the people who are just buying it now are being "ruined." However, the weapons should all be unlocked from the start. Achievements like COD4 are just stupid for a game that is supposed to be "pick up and play" without any farming stuff.
 

Slavik81

Member
GameGamer said:
I agree. It's just not the same game as TFC. They should have just left the 2 out and closed the series.
Of course it's not the same game as TFC. That's why it's TF2 and not TFC.
I don't like TF2 as much as TFC, but that's ok. TF2's still one of the best multiplayer games released in the past 5 years.
 

YYZ

Junior Member
First Do No Harm: Play a full round without killing any enemies and score the highest on a team of six or more players
Good, this encourages proper medic play without charging forward like an idiot trying to kill every enemy in sight with the bonesaw or syringe gun. You get points for deploying uber charges and healing X amount (I think it's 1 point per 540 heal)

Quadruple Bypass: Heal a teammate who is taking fire form four enemies at once
Also good, your teammate likely won't survive, but at least you're doing your best.

Group Health: Work with two other medics to deploy three simultaneous Ubercharges
Three is a waste imo, should save that third one. Two ubercharges is pretty devestating. But this encourages teamwork and communication with other medics. Play on a good server for this one.

Surgical Prep: Have an Ubercharge ready before the set up phase ends
The perfect achievement :lol

Trauma Queen: Deploy three Ubercharges in less than five minutes and assist in five kills during that time
Also a proper encouragement of how to play medic aggressively, but not hazardously.

Double Blind Trial: deploy an Ubercharge within eight seconds of a nearby enemy medic deploying his
You would get this one without even knowing what it is, people do this all the time to block an enemy uber so it is a good achievement.

Play Doctor: In a team with no Medics, be first to switch to Medic after a teammate calls medic and heal 500 health
This would be a good achievement if everyone and their mother weren't playing medic. This one would have been a good achievement from the first start. You pretty much have to farm this one if you want it anytime soon.

Triage: Deploy an Ubercharge on a teammate less than a second before they are hit by a critical explosive
This one is also good if you didn't know what it was, but it's likely to happen sooner or later without farming. I got it unintentionally with a crit sticky.

Preventative Medicine: Block the enemy from capturing a control point with an Ubercharged teammate
Very good achievement, nothing else to say. I think you have to get a kill assist with the uber.

Consultation: Assist a fellow Medic in killing five enemies in a single life
No, this one is just stupid. You should never be healing another medic just to have him kill enemies, especially in a single life. If this weren't in a single life then it would be fine because sometimes you may find yourself alone with another medic.

Does It Hurt When I Do This?: Kill fifty Scouts with your syringe gun
One of those arbitrary longevity achievements.

Peer Review: Kill fifty Medics with your bone saw
This one is ok, but the number is way too high. I don't like it because it encourages rambo medic behaviour.

Big Pharma: Assist a heavy in killing thirty twenty enemies where neither of you die
I copied this list from Kotaku (two week-old article) and the original number is thirty, even twenty is ridiculous, again you'd have to play on a pretty crappy server for this.

You'll Feel a Little Prick: Assist in killing four three enemies with a single Ubercharge on a Scout
This one is ok if a scout is the only one around, but quite difficult. Might as well farm this so you don't waste ubers on scouts. Killing two enemies would be very reasonable.

Autoclave: Assist in burning eight five enemies with a single Ubercharge on a Pyro
You'll get this without even trying. Eight is very unreasonable, but five is fine. It's good to uber pyros in many situations.

Blast Assist: Assist in exploding five enemies with a single Ubercharge on a Soldier
Five is ok with the kritzkrieg gun, but with the regular gun, farming is likely going to be used.

Blunt Trauma: Assist in punching out four enemies punching two with a single Ubercharge on a Heavy
HUGE change, but still dumb. You don't uber a heavy to have him fucking punch enemies. The original achievement would have definitely been farmed. Even if you don't farm this one, you've just wasted an uber. Punching out four would mean killing four with punches, punching two would be punching two different enemies without killing them which is fairly easy, but still dumb.

Medical Breakthrough: Assist in destroying eight five enemy Engineer buildings with a single Ubercharge on a Demoman
They changed this one, big time. I remember when it was eight, it's now five which is encouragement for ubering a demoman. The easiest way to get this is on blu, the second leg of dustbowl, the second point, the corner near red spawn.

Midwife Crisis: Heal an Engineer as he repairs his sentry gun while it's under enemy fire
This one is also good because an engineer is likely to die while under fire. I ubered an engineer while an ubered heavy was standing point blank firing at a level 3 sentry and the engineer and sentry survived.

Ubi Concordia, Ibi Victoria: Assist in killing five enemies on an enemy control point in a single life
Should be three. I farmed this one. This is an enemy control point, not your own.

Grand Rounds: Heal two hundred teammates after they have called for Medic
This one is perfect if it was a secret achievement. People shouldn't farm this anyway since you're going to get it after a few hours of playing medic properly.

Infernal Medicine: Extinguish one hundred burning teammates
Perfect, should be made a hidden achievement.

Doctor Assisted Homicide: Assist in killing twenty nemeses
This is fine, again should not be farmed. It will take longer than most achievements, but twenty is borderline ok.

Placebo Effect: Kill five enemies in a single life, while having your Ubercharge ready but undeployed
One of the worst achievements, encourages wasting your uber by dying and rambo medic crap.

Sawbones: Hit enemies with your bone saw ten times in a row without dying or missing
They changed this from ten to five, but still rambo medic crap. It's probably just me because other people got this without trying. I could not.

Intern: Accumulate seven thousand heal points in a single life
Seven thousand is A LOT. This would encourage me to abandon teammates in order to stay alive. Again, playing on a crappy server helps so I don't like this one.

Specialist: Accumulate ten thousand heal points in a single life
Same as intern.

Chief of Staff: Accumulate ten one million total health points
They reduced this by NINE MILLION :lol
This is a fine achievement, ten million would be too much.

Hypocritical Oath: Kill an enemy spy that you have been healing
This one is ok, but a lot of people will purposely heal a spy and then kill him. Most good players know a spy immediately upon seeing one.

Medical Intervention: Save a falling teammate from dying on impact
Get this one in setup, it's blind luck to get this one during gameplay.

Second Opinion: Ubercharge two teammates at once
Seems like a lot of people have trouble getting this one. I got it ok, I did it in setup. It's easier when your targets are standing still. You have to juggle quickly. Valve messed up the coding or something on this one because it's hard to get in a real game situation.

Autopsy Report: Provide an enemy with a freeze cam shot of you taunting above their ragdoll
This is a good fun one, just make sure you're not near enemies when doing this.

FYI I am a Medic: use a bone saw to kill five enemy spies who have been calling for Medic
This one is ok, but a lot of people farmed this.

Family Practice: Ubercharge ten of your steam community friends
Problem for people who are banned from steam community. Pay for the game, but blocked from getting certain achievements.

House Call: Join a game that one of your friends is in and then deploy an Ubercharge on him
Kinda stupid, you'll have to do this on purpose maybe instead of ubering someone else that would help the team more. Same comment as above as well.

Bedside Manner: be healing a teammate as he achieves an achievement of his own
I was afraid of not getting this one. I got this by accident, but I would likely farm this one. I don't like this achievement because it relies so heavily on chance. Also in the future when most players are vets, it will be harder and harder to get this.
 

LAMBO

Member
1up said:
I see you haven't played WoW PvP have you?

Not a chance in hell, like i said i can't fathom playing an online game where everyone doesn't start on an even playing field (why i'll never play MMORPGs where the game is more about time invested than skills).
 

Fall

Member
Davidion said:
Bingo. Not a single person who's been going on about how TF2 is so "unbalanced" can make a single argument supporting their case. That's mainly because they don't have a point, but that's another conversation.

I also like people who criticize crits as being unbalancing. Because you know, you never benefit from them or anything.

TF2 not balanced? Play decent players and you'll see that:

1. All good players play Soldier, Demo, or Scout. These classes require decent movement skills and aim, while having good utility against almost every other class.
2. Pyro, Spies, and Engineers don't get played on decent teams. These classes work well on large games with bad people, where setting up an ambush is easy, as no one communicates. In a competitive team, all of these classes are countered by decent communication.
3. Every good team runs the same core strategy, one medic latched onto a Soldier and a second Solider or a Heavy, sometimes in non-crit games. This pack roams the middle of the map, pushing only once the Demo/Scouts have cleared ahead and the enemy has at least one person waiting to respawn.
4. Crits eliminate a significant portion of the limited amounts of skill the game has. Since every player has a high base chance to crit, regardless of performance, claiming it's fair and balanced, especially for competitive play, is not true. Losing a fight because you played better, but the other guy lucked out, is anything but balanced. There's a reason why most European servers and all competitive leagues play with crits off.
5. Ubercharge is bad. Almost impossible to interrupt and takes very little skill to build up, especially now with the Ubersaw. It's cute that Valve wanted your girlfriend to have a class she could play while she's watching Sex in the City, but seriously... invulnerability was unfun in multiplayer in 1996.

Like most games, balance is "good enough" for public server play with other mediocre to bad gamers. Also, like most games, once you play with or against organized teams, the game breaks apart.

There's a reason why Counter-Strike is still so popular despite being so old, and games like TF2 have already headed downhill in popularity. Balance needs to be good for both casual pubs and competitive play, and few games manage that, mostly because few game developers actually understand what balance is in a competitive environment.
 

Fall

Member
aznpxdd said:
I eat soldiers, demos and scouts for breakfast with my heavy.

And it's not like bad people play those classes too... right? TF2 is pretty much dead for competitive play, so the odds of playing against a good person is quite low.

Heavy is easy to avoid, so anyone getting trapped (especially a scout) by a Heavy is anything but good.

Classes with the most utility in movement and a fight are the ones that have the greatest potential for skill, and end up getting used by the best players.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
dionysus said:
I just hope for the next classes valve allows people who just want to buy the weapons do it for 2 dollars instead of achievement farming. I'd totally do it.

Yall can commence crucifying me now.

>=(

I'm gettin your cross...
 
Fall said:
TF2 not balanced? Play decent players and you'll see that:

1. All good players play Soldier, Demo, or Scout. These classes require decent movement skills and aim, while having good utility against almost every other class.
2. Pyro, Spies, and Engineers don't get played on decent teams. These classes work well on large games with bad people, where setting up an ambush is easy, as no one communicates. In a competitive team, all of these classes are countered by decent communication.
3. Every good team runs the same core strategy, one medic latched onto a Soldier and a second Solider or a Heavy, sometimes in non-crit games. This pack roams the middle of the map, pushing only once the Demo/Scouts have cleared ahead and the enemy has at least one person waiting to respawn.
4. Crits eliminate a significant portion of the limited amounts of skill the game has. Since every player has a high base chance to crit, regardless of performance, claiming it's fair and balanced, especially for competitive play, is not true. Losing a fight because you played better, but the other guy lucked out, is anything but balanced. There's a reason why most European servers and all competitive leagues play with crits off.
5. Ubercharge is bad. Almost impossible to interrupt and takes very little skill to build up, especially now with the Ubersaw. It's cute that Valve wanted your girlfriend to have a class she could play while she's watching Sex in the City, but seriously... invulnerability was unfun in multiplayer in 1996.

Like most games, balance is "good enough" for public server play with other mediocre to bad gamers. Also, like most games, once you play with or against organized teams, the game breaks apart.

There's a reason why Counter-Strike is still so popular despite being so old, and games like TF2 have already headed downhill in popularity. Balance needs to be good for both casual pubs and competitive play, and few games manage that, mostly because few game developers actually understand what balance is in a competitive environment.
This is very disingenuous, "competitive play" is a bunch of bullshit in this case. TF2 is not a game tuned for 6v6 teams--yes that means classes that are built to be effective against groups of people are not powerhouses 1v1.

Your comments regarding crits are somewhat spot on, although a bit exagerated.

As far as ubers go, you'd be right if there were no proper uber counter. As far as building up an uber being easy, well that's a bunch of shit. An effective opposing team will make a medic work for an uber, an even more effective team will be able to completely invalidate it.

Just why competitive play limits team sizes is beyond me, TF2's not a fit for it.
 

Crushed

Fry Daddy
Fall said:
TF2 not balanced? Play decent players and you'll see that:

1. All good players play Soldier, Demo, or Scout. These classes require decent movement skills and aim, while having good utility against almost every other class.
2. Pyro, Spies, and Engineers don't get played on decent teams. These classes work well on large games with bad people, where setting up an ambush is easy, as no one communicates. In a competitive team, all of these classes are countered by decent communication.
3. Every good team runs the same core strategy, one medic latched onto a Soldier and a second Solider or a Heavy, sometimes in non-crit games. This pack roams the middle of the map, pushing only once the Demo/Scouts have cleared ahead and the enemy has at least one person waiting to respawn.
4. Crits eliminate a significant portion of the limited amounts of skill the game has. Since every player has a high base chance to crit, regardless of performance, claiming it's fair and balanced, especially for competitive play, is not true. Losing a fight because you played better, but the other guy lucked out, is anything but balanced. There's a reason why most European servers and all competitive leagues play with crits off.
5. Ubercharge is bad. Almost impossible to interrupt and takes very little skill to build up, especially now with the Ubersaw. It's cute that Valve wanted your girlfriend to have a class she could play while she's watching Sex in the City, but seriously... invulnerability was unfun in multiplayer in 1996.


AHAHAHAHAHAHA


Holy shit, what servers have YOU been playing on?
 

DyTonic

Banned
blah I'm tired of the allocation errors I'm getting when I try to change maps.

Goldrush is fun though, but the too many heavies and medics make the games seem unbalanced.
 
I'm very glad TF2 strays away from the competetive scene.

I could never find any good TFC servers, but I did play a lot of Natural Selection, a once great mod where teamplay was king. For those who don't know, the game is hybrid of an RTS and FPS, as each map had res nodes that needed capturing. They are akin to the control points in the Dawn of War series. On one side, there was the space marines. One of the players was the commander, and had a bird eye view of the map. They could set down armories and sentries, and give waypoints for all the other soldiers to follow.
The aliens had no commander, but ironically, played a more teamwork heavy game. It was very important to coordinate when to evolve, and when to help defend the hives.

During the 1.04 and earlier days, the game had many glitches like infinite jetpack fuel with 99 fps, but the game was at its funnest. The level 5 evolution alien, Onos, was truly a game ender, goring all the puny soldiers. At the same time, a commander could win a game buy have tens of sentry farms all through the map. There was also the infamous Wall of Lame, where the alien Engineer built healing nodes behind offensive (sentry) nodes. The sentries were healed so fast by the healing nodes, that the walls built across a hallway were pratically indestructible. Even so, the game was balanced for large games.

However, this game was never meant to be played 6 vs 6. The competive players gnashed their teeth, whining on the forums, until NS v2 game out. From then on, competitive games 6 v 6 were better balanced, but the game lost a lot of spontatanity and fun. Now there was a best way to do things, and any deviation were met by shouts of n00b. The days of experimenting with new stratagies were gone. If a commnander tried a sentry farm strategy for example, they would be immediantly kicked from the chair.

The community of Natural Selection is a shadow of its former self. I've stopped playing years ago. How does one expect to even build a competive scene when no new blood appears? And a game will only get new blood if any person can have fun on a public server.

I loved Natural Selection, hence my nickname on GAF. (If a mod could change it to SCG, I'd be very grateful.) When the game turned it's back on the casual community, the community itself (including the competive scene) turned it's back on it. I'm really glad TF2 is balanced for 12 v 12, I wouldn't have it any other way.

PS: I don't like how the tied the new weapons to achievemennts, especially because too many of the achievements encourage bad medic play. I hope Valve just unlocks all the weapons for everyone.
 

YYZ

Junior Member
DyobolikaL. said:
Goldrush is fun though, but the too many heavies and medics make the games seem unbalanced.
Good snipers.

aznpxdd said:
Anyone here that gives a flying fuck about competitive play in TF2 please raise your hand.
I kinda do, but I care more about playing on a regular team where each person knows his role and it's not a crap shoot trying to have a good experience. It sounds like I'm describing a competitive team though.



BTW a lot of complaints here are mediated by playing on non-shitty servers. You think your server is good but you're still complaining? Go somewhere else.
 

aznpxdd

Member
I know, I'm just saying TF2 isn't meant to be played in 6v6. Obviously people are going to choose solider and demoman in such a small team, since they are the more versatile class.
 
ProfessorLobo said:
Maybe now more people will play Dystopia.
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