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The Kiseki / Trails (of the Sky/Zero/Ao/Sen/Etc) Community Thread: SPOILERTAGS OR DIE

Marche90

Member
Uh....

tumblr_inline_oo7tqkwl751ubozr5_500.gif


You guys seeing this CS3 information?

obama_wiping_sweat.jpg

Elise is looking great; doing a complete 180 on this character if she acts just as classy as she looks. Alfin is looking way better than before, more like a real princess. Cedric became more Jusis-like which is always appreciated.

Also they're upping the battle difficulty by allowing enemies to S-Break you as a counter. Looks more and more like this is going to be THE hype conclusion title. Can't wait!

Alfin does looks amazing:

qpY0SwB.gif


The hype is getting to me. I just need to avoid getting too hyped or I'll do something stupid like importing the game even without knowing Japanese lol
 

godisntheradio

Neo Member
or I'll do something stupid like importing the game the when even without knowing Japanese lol

yep, i'll probably regret it, but i'll do it. I'm too high on trails now that i'm playing the 3rd and already planning on playing cold steel for the third time and replaying cold steel 2.
 
Cold Steel II was my #2 GOTY (behind Overwatch) last year, so I think you'll enjoy it.
ive already finished them both on PS3, just excited to replay them on PC with the additional voice acting. The constant dropping of voices, especially Rean's in school sections, was so jarring that I'm excited to experience it again with the additional lines.

It also gives me the chance to fix my mistakes and pair Rean up with Sara. Sorry Laura
 

Loz246789

Member
I never really had a problem with Rean himself, he has an arc, he's endearing, all that good stuff. I think the biggest problem he has is that he's the main character, and thus has to play along with the various bonding events, and
for the most part
has to follow along with what the player should be exposed to for the plot overall. His character largely fits this role, but there are times when I could see Rean taking a more active part in some situations, if he was able to. Or something. I dunno.

You guys seeing this CS3 information?

...

Also they're upping the battle difficulty by allowing enemies to S-Break you as a counter. Looks more and more like this is going to be THE hype conclusion title. Can't wait!

Excuse me. WHAT. This sounds pain inducing, and also how am I going to be able to spam turn delay stuff for bosses now?
 

Squire

Banned
I've been meaning to post a little about my ongoing thoughts of Sky, but I've been much more busy the past month or two than I would've guessed and I've had trouble formulating thoughts for writing. I actually stopped playing and restarted.

Anyway, I made it back up to chapter 2 (where I left off) and actually played through it all last night.

The majority of this chapter I felt was sort of going through the motions. Not that that's bad though. It's all pretty pleasant and the last chunk of it is so compelling it makes up for the early drag. It's nice to see
Tita and and Prof. Russell again and also great to check in with Anelace and Schera, and Cassius and Cid again, too.
This actually turned out to be a surprisingly good chapter for catching up with characters and the meetings don't feel too contrived, I think. The world feels big, but it also feels like the saying "it's a small world" believably applies as well.

Things get really good when
you start looking for Walter and even better once you find him.
I feel like the meeting with him and the aftermath encapsulates why the villains (and really the characters in general) are so good in this series. They're not just who they are at the time that you meet them. They have their own histories and actual reasons for the things they do. They're different things to different people.
Walter is so genuinely disgusting to Tita, but almost right after, you find out he was such close friends with Zin and Kilika who are both extremely upstanding people. I can't really have a one dimensional read of the guy after that, I think.

What else?

-Falcom has the last minute rescue down to a T. When Zin shows up and the tournament music starts playing and aaaa I was smiling like a fool!
-The hot spring that lets you charge your CP (and also HP/EP?) was a nice surprise
-I played the first bit of chapter 3, so that conversation with Zin also informs what I said about Walter above.
-Speaking of early chapter 3, that sparring between Julia and Cassius was more entertaining than any similar scene I've seen in FFXV or anything recent, with a big budget. Falcom is really good at getting a lot from very little.

It was a great chapter. Seems like chapter 3 will largely concern
Renne.
 

PK Gaming

Member
Mouki's kind of an annoying enemy, huh?

It's the terrifying ugly bat tentacle thingy that heals HP. There's this quest in chapter 5 has you fighting 3 of them, and they can call reinforcements. Real rough, though Stone Impact got the job down.

Clock Up EX is too godlike.
 
Sorry to treat this thread like a Falcom community but whoa, videogamesplus just shipped my copy of Tokyo Xanadu on Vita. I used the cheapest shipping option so I'll probably get this after it officially releases, but still.
 

Eylos

Banned
3 months to cold Steel 3

Maybe after the game is on Gold they Will define the translation? Or it Will take a while?
 
You guys seeing this CS3 information?

obama_wiping_sweat.jpg

Elise is looking great; doing a complete 180 on this character if she acts just as classy as she looks. Alfin is looking way better than before, more like a real princess. Cedric became more Jusis-like which is always appreciated.

Also they're upping the battle difficulty by allowing enemies to S-Break you as a counter. Looks more and more like this is going to be THE hype conclusion title. Can't wait!

Got links to it?
 

Nyoro SF

Member
Got links to it?

I'm not allowed to link magazine scans on GAF, BUT if you follow this Dominion on Twitter, you may be in luck.

Sorry to treat this thread like a Falcom community but whoa, videogamesplus just shipped my copy of Tokyo Xanadu on Vita. I used the cheapest shipping option so I'll probably get this after it officially releases, but still.

It's all good. The fandom for these games is very small. The Tokyo Xanadu Import OT was basically three people talking to each other for months. I'm sure the new OT will be much more active though.

3 months to cold Steel 3

Maybe after the game is on Gold they Will define the translation? Or it Will take a while?

I wouldn't get your hopes up, the probability is low. After the release in Japan we may hear some news.
 

Squire

Banned
You'll recall in my last post I remarked how much I enjoyed the intro to this chapter
with Julia's training.
Well, past that, I wasn't really finding it to be too remarkable to start with. It's certainly not bad, but
fan art basically spoiled that Renne was a villain for me, so I figured she was the little girl the group had to find. The title card made it pretty clear the chapter was alluding to Alice in Wonderland as well. I figured I had a pretty good idea of what to expect.

I honestly found looking for Renne at the Erbe Villa to be a drag. I wasn't crazy about them repeating "check all the rooms" as a gimmick and even less crazy about now needing to comb all the rooms for things to click on. I wasn't able to find her in the end either, so the revealed solution was a little annoying.

I thought checking the various locations the letters were sent to would be another drag, but it turned out to largely be some of my favorite subject in this series: Zemurian politics. Talking to the ambassadors and the Queen painted a wonderful picture of the ideological diversity of the world. You can really tell Falcom has a genuine interest in these subjects, but I'll come back to that.

Finishing the check around Grancel gets you a peek at what Schera and Anelace are doing (and Joshua.) I just loved this. I love that when the action is happening elsewhere, instead of having an NPC dictate it to you or putting it in a file, Falcom just does the most logical thing and takes you there. They realize you really don't need to see every single event through Estelle's eyes and it's so freeing.

Now despite all that I was still mostly expecting this scenario to be as simple as Renne sending all the letters and compelling certain individuals to meet at a location for some sort of sinister, but close-to-literal tea party. Then Estelle got her letter. Everything that happens from here on out is a surprise in THE BEST WAY.

We get an awesome team-up with Kevin and another tease at who he really is, than we add Schera, and then Julia on top that?!

Oh man, Julia. Having her fight with you is the perfect book end to this single chapter, but resolving her rivalry with Amalthea and then going even further to tie up the lingering drama between Amalthea and Col. Richard is Falcom making good on a cheque they wrote in FC, when I never would've expected them to. What seemed almost like trivia then is such affective drama in the here and now.

Finally,
I appreciated the scene between Renne and Loewe. It's interesting to see he doesn't entirely trust Weissman,
but that moment and even moreso everything
with Amalthea
in this chapter sort of crystallizes how well Falcom does their villains and why they're better than most of their contemporaries. Instead of trying to make them "sympathetic", they make them believable and I think there's a key distinction there. They're not bad guys just for the sake of being so. They take the actions they do because of lived experiences and ideologies formed. So Falcom shows you those things or gives you firm hints at them so you can understand them, specifically - as key components of who these characters are - as opposed to having the villains do objectively horrible things and then posit that maybe they have a point. That and the detail in how the different governments and societies of Zemuria are portrayed earlier in the chapter shows the writers have a real understanding and appreciation of politics and social systems.

So to conclude, this chapter started out fairly standard, but grew to be an honest 10/10 for me. Someone told me this was when the game would really get going and just naturally I didn't want to get my hopes up, but now I'm chomping at the bit to go back in.
 

Nyoro SF

Member
I'm glad you were able to enjoy chapter 3 even if you had a major twist spoiled for you. Just goes to show there's such a variety of things to enjoy in these games, even if you are told major events beforehand.
 
Instead of trying to make them "sympathetic", they make them believable and I think there's a key distinction there. They're not bad guys just for the sake of being so. They take the actions they do because of lived experiences and ideologies formed. So Falcom shows you those things or gives you firm hints at them so you can understand them, specifically - as key components of who these characters are - as opposed to having the villains do objectively horrible things and then posit that maybe they have a point.

I like this post so much.
 

Squire

Banned
Starting the second disc of SC may as well be starting Trails in The Sky: The (Unofficial) Third Chapter. Chapter 4 is short, but sweet,
our heroes find themselves back in Rolent
, and at its core, the chapter is all about Estelle and what drives her to carry on.

First things first:
The fog mystery works. It's really eery, but the thing I like about it most is that it happens in Rolent. That makes it personal to Estlelle (and Schera) on a level the other investigations never hit or at least not up to this point in the game. Some people would probably nitpick Kevin showing up at Perzel Farm as a contrivance, but I think it's been clearly established his own investigation is essentially running in parallel to the guild's and hey, I just like Kevin.

Now the meat of this chapter:
The dream. I'm actually struggling to put into words how great this whole sequence is. When it started, I couldn't believe it in the sense that I couldn't believe this new, mysterious Ouroboros member would be so cruel as to hit Estelle so personally. But the shoe I was waiting to hear drop never actually did. The dream never turned into a nightmare as they so typically do in this kind of work. Nor did it become a cliched struggle against Estelle's self-doubt or some nebulous darkness to be beat back with light/friendship. Instead what we get is a peaceful reaffirmation of what exactly makes Estelle tick.

Estelle is home; Her father's there, her mother's there, Schera visits when she can, and Estelle, she wants a sibling to play with and it's a request her parents take pretty well. It's a great life. It was Estelle's reality at one point, but it isn't now, and even in the depths of this sweet dream she can feel that. She knows something's missing.

So we have the harmonica. Finding this, I knew instinctively I needed to play it on the balcony. Estelle finally playing "The Whereabouts of Light" seems like simple symbolism and maybe so, but I still think we have another great bookend/milestone here. Estelle has matched Joshua's strength of character. She nearly fell apart to start, but she made it. She's ready.
Then there's her mother. We've seen how Estelle feels about Cassius and Joshua, so it only makes sense that Lena be put in the spotlight finally. She sort of is for the entirety of this dream, but it's this final interaction between them that sells it. I'm personally pretty attached to my own mom, so this probably got me more than most people, but it's a scene that's gonna stay with me. In this moment, I knew SC was an all-timer. And that last line.

"Goodbye... my dearest, Estelle."

The perfect echo of a painful goodbye.
Lastly,
Schera's a strong co-star in this chapter for sure. I loved the hints that she had a good idea at what was up and the support she gives Estelle. And Luciola meets the standard set for Ouroboros so far. She's not just a villain or rather, she hasn't always been. She's someone to somebody and she was a good person then. I'm looking forward to her and Schera meeting again.

10/10 chapter, full-stop.

I'm glad you were able to enjoy chapter 3 even if you had a major twist spoiled for you. Just goes to show there's such a variety of things to enjoy in these games, even if you are told major events beforehand.

Definitely. I really enjoyed it and I've always been the type to prioritize the journey over the destination anyway.

I like this post so much.

:D
 
10/10 chapter, full-stop.

Probably the second best chapter of SC and the third best of the trilogy no doubt.
It's almost flawless.

The thing that make it so great was to see rolent reacting to the fog and especially the dialog and the consequences on the town. almost every house had a slight story to tell and those wouldn't have been possible to establish had it not been set-up that way.

Alos it's also great because it's the first time we see scheera being trully off balance in the group. There was times where she was in danger before but never where it was unable to be herself. It really makes for a nice change of pace.
 

jb1234

Member
See, I didn't think SC came to life until Chapter 5 so if you're loving it now, you're going to be thrilled in later chapters.
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
See, I didn't think SC came to life until Chapter 5 so if you're loving it now, you're going to be thrilled in later chapters.

I don't know if Squire is coming directly off FC, but I really think taking a break between the two games would make the earlier chapters of SC a lot more enjoyable. Could make it feel more like revisiting everything rather than retreading/backtracking.
 

Thud

Member
I played SC almost directly after FC and that only enhanced the experience.

Chapter 8 was even one of my favorites.
 

PK Gaming

Member
Not about to let Squire upstage me

LET'S GO

Chapter 3


Chapter 3 marks a drastic improvement in this game's narrative. No longer are you just chasing after yet another villain of the week and moving on; plots are in motion, various important characters are on the move and things of note are actually happening. Grancel hasn't changed much, but you can almost feel that things are off. You spend most of the chapter chasing after ghost, waiting for that shoe to drop, and man when it happens it does not disappoint. I was spoiled on
Renne being an Ouroborus member, but it's honestly not that difficult to figure out; she's incredibly suspicious from onset, and the minute she hands Estelle that letter, you know she's playing her.
Speaking of Estelle, that sequence where she desperately
chases after Joshua, knowing full well that it might be a trap is fantastic. Too many games contrive plot induced stupidity to trap their protagonists, but the writing makes it immediately clear that Estelle doesn't care; if there's even a 0.000001% that the Joshua lead is true, she'll chase after it. Even Agate realizes this, and like the God bro that he is, opts to let her run off instead of chastising her for being stupid. Not only is this another case of Agate being a Top Tier Bro, it's also another case of him not patronizing Estelle, really selling the idea that they're equals, despite his tough guy macho-man persona.

The climax of the chapter was great.
I lost it when Almathea's head popped out of that big tank and she delivered her trademark shit eating grin. She's a simple character and a toal pawn, but developed enough to the point where I actually care about her. Kevin's moment of awesome was real nice too, but the real star of the show was Renne. BETRAYED AGAIN? THAT MECH! THOSE PUPPETS! Renne being the mastermind of the entire tea party really landed for me. Not because she was a badass (her character archetype is kind of rote), but because it's clear from dialogue alone, there's this deep, deep sadness to the character, making her genuinely compelling. She's an obvious Joshua parallel, and I'm really looking forward to getting her true backstory. Something tells me it isn't pleasant.

And that's it for Chapter 3! Some other things worth noting:

  • SC's character specific dialogue blows CS2's out of the water. There are entire dialogue exchanges between optional characters (Kloe talking to her loser Uncle, Olivier, etc)
  • The embassy stuff was really good. I get giddy every time Erebonian becomes relevant because YO I LIVED THAT STUFF.
  • Anelace and Schera doing Anelace and Schera things ♪
  • While fun due to how enthralling it is, I like feel SC's biggest issue is it's quest design. Some of it can get genuinely tedious (chasing after Renne, going to point A, etc) and the fact that the game rarely teleports you back to town after a successful quest is annoying.
 

jb1234

Member
I don't know if Squire is coming directly off FC, but I really think taking a break between the two games would make the earlier chapters of SC a lot more enjoyable. Could make it feel more like revisiting everything rather than retreading/backtracking.

I played them several months apart. I think I would have gone crazy if I had tried to play them one after the other.
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
I played SC almost directly after FC and that only enhanced the experience.

Chapter 8 was even one of my favorites.

I found the second half of the game to be fine. It's just the first half that basically felt just like FC in terms of structure, but the writing was less interesting. Chapters 1-4 all felt like they were based on the exact same template and didn't deviate from it enough. I think I ended up enjoying chapter 4 a lot less than many other people because I was just ready for the game to do something different.
 

Squire

Banned
Enter: Agate.

Agate is the kind of character that's usually immediately pretty solid if the writer knows well enough what they're doing. "Tough guy w/a chip on his shoulder" is a tried and true trope. And yet, as typical as it seems, I don't think there are actually that many good explorations of the tough guy that learns to open up or at least, not in video games. Agate doesn't even really feel as simple as that though, I think.

In this chapter we see him struggle with guilt, grief, and most importantly a deep self-loathing. The kind that poisons a person's heart and keeps them from growing mentally and emotionally.

Like an arts user with an orbment, this chapter pulls Agate apart, his feelings the quartz to be rearranged. He comes out with a better configuration, ultimately. It's imperfect and has room for improvement, but it's been set-up well enough for Agate to face whatever comes his way next.

Tita's role here is as great as it's potential, but what's really interesting is the part Loewe plays. We're shown again on multiple occasions that Loewe's morality isn't cut/dry. He's doing the tasks assigned him, but he's not particularly reveling in them when he could be. He won't let Agate stand in his way, but he doesn't kill him when he seemingly could have with ease, and he's the one to truly identify Agate's struggle, providing a read that Agate himself comes to agree with. Make no mistake, it's still The Agate Show, but Loewe is an important co-star.

Once again Falcom makes good on a rivalry established back in FC. It doesn't neatly conclude it like with Julia and Amalthea, but it advances it in a way that feels substantial and satisfying, and leaves room for the two characters to have more great moments later.

Now for The One Bad Thing:
Fog. I'm pretty sure I never wanna see fog again after this chapter. They got to use it twice, it's always been annoying, please put it to rest. I get it's place in the story and (at least in chapter 4) the atmosphere it lends itself too. But here it just felt like a hindrance. It's an artificial attempt at adding challenge to navigation that just works out to be a dull roadblock. A by the book JRPG like Trails doesn't need this. The battle system is flexible, the enemies are varied, and the game just isn't wanting for challenge. It already keeps your attention in the ways it should, so there's no need for extra layers that, while occasionally interesting, can sometimes just backfire.

Lastly, I really would've liked to spend more time with
Maybelle and Lila. I find them both charming, but Maybelle especially is a character I just enjoy in practice as much as in concept. "20 year old girl becomes mayor/governor" could easily be the plot premise for a third-rate summer anime, but Trails treats culture and politics with such respect and attention to detail, you have to appreciate Maybelle for what she is: a genuine prodigy.

I could probably go on forever about why
Trails has the best take on dragons in recent memory,
but we'll save that for another day. This chapter was another winner. The analogy that says SC is the ""meal" part of the Sky trilogy is more than holding thus far. This game is an epoch in the truest sense.

@PK Gaming: Great post. I'm trying to live up to you!
 

Bebpo

Banned
I've been in media blackout for Sen/CS III because Falcom spoils the shit out of their games before release, so I haven't checked this thread since the initial screenshots of the game.

I just saw that it has a JPN release date 3 months away. Wow, I thought it was gonna be an x-mas game because they weren't even sure if they'd make 2017. Has there been any official word/promise on whether this will complete the Erebonia arc or whether this is part 1 of a new 2 parter with CS3/4 being the 2nd half of Erebonia arc? Really want to believe they're gonna fit everything in one game and it's out in 3 months, but that seems kinda hopeful given CS1/2 story progression/pacing.
 

preta

Member
I've been in media blackout for Sen/CS III because Falcom spoils the shit out of their games before release, so I haven't checked this thread since the initial screenshots of the game.

I just saw that it has a JPN release date 3 months away. Wow, I thought it was gonna be an x-mas game because they weren't even sure if they'd make 2017. Has there been any official word/promise on whether this will complete the Erebonia arc or whether this is part 1 of a new 2 parter with CS3/4 being the 2nd half of Erebonia arc? Really want to believe they're gonna fit everything in one game and it's out in 3 months, but that seems kinda hopeful given CS1/2 story progression/pacing.

It's been confirmed pretty much since the initial announcement of the game that it'll be the last Erebonia game, and that Calvard will be the next arc.
 

javadoze

Member
Playing through the 3rd chapter of TitS SC.

Probably halfway through, but everyone talking about Calvard, Erebonia, and Crossbell is making me hunger for more...
 

Bebpo

Banned
It's been confirmed pretty much since the initial announcement of the game that it'll be the last Erebonia game, and that Calvard will be the next arc.

I disagree unless there's been further info. There was a lot of "omg there is so much story/content we are covering, I'm trying my best to fit it in" quotes early on and that's the kind of stuff they said with Sen 1 before they split it into two games. Just from a budget/re-use perspective knowing Falcom, Being realistic, I'm not going to believe they're not making 2 games re-using assets unless they go on record and say "this is the final Erebonia game, the next game will be in Calvard". When was the last time they made a single all original assets 1 use game? 3rd? And 3rd was a small project, not the huge scope of Sen 3. I just want them on record saying there will not be a Sen 4 before I start playing the game, expect awesomeness and then nothing happens except setting up and it ends on a cliffhanger with a "come back in 1 year for all the good stuff!"
 
I disagree unless there's been further info. There was a lot of "omg there is so much story/content we are covering, I'm trying my best to fit it in" quotes early on and that's the kind of stuff they said with Sen 1 before they split it into two games. Just from a budget/re-use perspective knowing Falcom, Being realistic, I'm not going to believe they're not making 2 games re-using assets unless they go on record and say "this is the final Erebonia game, the next game will be in Calvard". When was the last time they made a single all original assets 1 use game? 3rd? And 3rd was a small project, not the huge scope of Sen 3. I just want them on record saying there will not be a Sen 4 before I start playing the game, expect awesomeness and then nothing happens except setting up and it ends on a cliffhanger with a "come back in 1 year for all the good stuff!"

3rd itself had minimal original assets; it reused a lot of stuff from FC/SC.
 
Just finished the 3rd and now continuing cold steel 2. I seem to find the boss battles in cold steel much harder than the sky series. Like that boss battle with
C in cs 1
. Any tips for boss battles?
 

Squire

Banned
Chapter 6 spoiler

"if you wish to protect someone, protect them. If you wish to cut them from your life... then do it. Completely."

Goddamn, y'all.

Edit: Nah, this whole conversation is legendary.
 

ResourcefulStar

Neo Member
"How about it, Estelle? Would you like to join Ouroboros?"

tumblr_lh08eqlTEj1qbr7ey.gif
I thought this was one of the weaker scenes in the game.
The problem I have with it is that despite Ouroboros priding itself on being an organization that only takes in willing members, Weissmann refuses to reveal his goals unless Estelle agrees to join first. The only reason she's given is a vague promise of power, and power for its own sake is something she's never been shown to be interested in. As a result, it never feels like she faces a real temptation, and Weissmann kind of looks dumb for even trying. I think the scene would work better if he had a bigger role in the first game, taught Estelle some Nietzsche for Dummies in advance, and she was shown to be receptive of it.
 

Bebpo

Banned
But that's my point, this is exactly what they've said.

Link? I've seen them say this is the final Erebonia story and after that it moves to Calvard for the next arc but that still gives them wiggle room to do a 2 part story. We know this is the 2nd half SC story arc of Erebonia before Calvard. The question is whether they do this story arc which potentially should be bigger than sen 1+2 in scope and amount of events in a single game...dunno, I'm just being realistic because it's been a while since Falcom blew me away like that.
 
3 years is enough time to do a game that big if they've known for a long while how much they need to produce, regardless of how many assets return for the Calvard games. I wouldn't be surprised if they reuse certain animations built for Sen III later on just to save time.

Maybe certain cool things and details will simply be glossed over, but hinted at just enough to work for most players. They're either cramming hard for Sen III to finally get the Calvard arc rolling or entering the milking stage for this part of the franchise. Falcom's now got a better IP for milking (Tokyo Xanadu) than one which becomes harder to get new players (and some old fans) into with successive installments.

I thought this was one of the weaker scenes in the game.
The problem I have with it is that despite Ouroboros priding itself on being an organization that only takes in willing members, Weissmann refuses to reveal his goals unless Estelle agrees to join first. The only reason she's given is a vague promise of power, and power for its own sake is something she's never been shown to be interested in. As a result, it never feels like she faces a real temptation, and Weissmann kind of looks dumb for even trying. I think the scene would work better if he had a bigger role in the first game, taught Estelle some Nietzsche for Dummies in advance, and she was shown to be receptive of it.
Making Alba more suggestive and nihilistic when talking with Estelle in FC would have been dumb, though, and would out him as a villain much earlier than works best. I agree Weissmann's offer aboard the Glorious is a little weak, but it's justified later in the story once you see his plans and personality crumble to dust, as if he took his victory for granted and failed to understand Estelle's motivations and morals all along. Weissmann does offer more than just power, too: he correctly guarantees a chance to reunite with Joshua soon after, which backfires. Maybe he feels he shouldn't have to spell out all the details for ethics' sake, something other Ouroboros members would because they don't suffer from his flaws. The other Enforcers clearly play along but don't expect their persuasion to work, and Loewe makes quick work of any incentive Estelle would have had to join or collaborate
.

tl;dr In context the writing and set-up for the scene, followed by events afterward, are a big hint of how
Weissmann is failing his plan by giving unaccountable promises to Estelle and letting the Enforcers have more of a say
.
 

ResourcefulStar

Neo Member
Making Alba more suggestive and nihilistic when talking with Estelle in FC would have been dumb, though, and would out him as a villain much earlier than works best. I agree Weissmann's offer aboard the Glorious is a little weak, but it's justified later in the story once you see his plans and personality crumble to dust, as if he took his victory for granted and failed to understand Estelle's motivations and morals all along. Weissmann does offer more than just power, too: he correctly guarantees a chance to reunite with Joshua soon after, which backfires. Maybe he feels he shouldn't have to spell out all the details for ethics' sake, something other Ouroboros members would because they don't suffer from his flaws. The other Enforcers clearly play along but don't expect their persuasion to work, and Loewe makes quick work of any incentive Estelle would have had to join or collaborate
.

tl;dr In context the writing and set-up for the scene, followed by events afterward, are a big hint of how
Weissmann is failing his plan by giving unaccountable promises to Estelle and letting the Enforcers have more of a say
.
I didn't mean nihilism by Nietzsche for Dummies (neither Nietzsche, nor Weissmann are nihilists). What I had in mind was having Alba pop up on the occasions when Estelle was facing difficulties and having him give her little motivational speeches about great people of the past who overcame adversity by having the will to impose their power at critical moments. This would gradually give Estelle the idea that power is a good thing because it allows its wielder to change the world for the better, and an offer of Enforcer training would look more attractive to her. I don't think it would make Alba suspicious either. He'd come across as a kindly scholar trying to boost Estelle's confidence rather than a villain grooming a potential recruit.
 

Jiraiza

Member
Late response. SC's getting pretty good.

Wait, how so? How does an optional romance feature result in characters having less depth? You realize that game development is a zero sum game, right? The romance aspect is extremely minor, culminating in a couple of snippets of dialogue (+ one big one at the end of CS2) out of hundreds of lines of dialogue. It's not resource intensive, and I can't think of an imagined replacement that would suddenly make characters have more depth, because that's only possible if work is done from the ground up.

The characters don't have less depth because of the optional romance, but they have less room to expand their depth. What if the writers wanted to pursue a relationship between two characters in Class VII? They wouldn't be able to because the romance options were already reserved for Rean in the event the player decided to romance the female. I don't know how intense the Trails fanbase is in Japan, but I can't imagine them giving their audience the middle finger by suddenly breaking away from optional romances to full, legit canon pairings, though that would make my day. In that respect, the romance is not trivial at all, because it impacts the direction in which they can develop a character, and in a character-driven, story-heavy game like Trails (which started off with a love story, mind you), that's just plain infuriating. I thought Neithardt and Fiona were a nice touch (the only problem was the lack of focus). I thought Crow and the second years were great too, until it turns out Towa is a romanceable target. I know my spiel has been mostly focused on romance, but it applies to platonic relationships, too.

I would think the bond system is a valid point of criticism for the characters because it's how you're able to spend time with any of the characters at all. I don't think the story did a very good job of establishing most of the characters beyond their basic introductions in the first game except for like Jusis and Emma.

I don't disagree with parts of this, but that's because FC/SC has top class character interactions. And even then, it's not like the non-Estelle/Joshua characters have particularly strong connections with each other. Most of the FC/SC party member connections with the various characters in the game are fairly basic, and easily comparable to that of CS. Seriously, you're not even pretending to give Class VII the benefit of the doubt either, considering you glossed over their relationships with their family members, childhood friends and club mates that are clearly defined.

I actually made a long post to address this, but then I realized I should probably wait until I finish SC before I start with any kind of comparisons between the Sky games and the CS games. So I'll put this discussion on hold. But for the record, Jusis happens to be my favorite character in both games. I have a lot to say about him, but for the most part, the development he got was the kind of down-to-earth development I wanted to see with every other character, including Rean. In the case of Rean, it's more like they went off the rails with him. I, for one, would think it would be a lot more endearing to see Millium attached to Jusis and see how he responds to her in her personal bond events than watch Rean be as generic as possible in every bond event as an earpiece instead (except for Alisa, I guess?).

As an addendum, I just finished chapter 3 yesterday night, too, and I'm finding, as expected, the Sky cast to be much, much more endearing and worth following than the Cold Steel cast (with the exclusion of Jusis). It really helps that Estelle is a strong protagonist, with an amazing personality to boot. Oliver's a blast to follow, and I'm actually really sad given how much of a non-role he had in Cold Steel, the game that takes place in his homeland. His relationship and hilarious banter with Estelle are also downright fantastic. CS3 looks promising, though.

The airship sequence was good because this is a series needlessly bogged down in obnoxious power levels and "false" victories, so having Rean disregard that was wonderful and cathartic.

I'll keep this short, but I don't agree. Giving the MC the power to break writing consistency just because is an indicator of bad writing. It would've been more believable if they kept his power boost only to besting Crow in a duel, but being able to hold his own against two Ouroboros members, even if we include the fact that Duvalie is a huge jobber in-universe, easily get past two Jaeger guys who gave him and company a lot of trouble in the Act 1, and so forth is just plain silly. I don't think I need to add that he was princess-carrying Alfina the entire time.

His "required" development should've been written separate from the above rubbish, but there we have it. I also think the development itself would've left a better impression on me if it was someone from Class VII, who, at least based on the game, he spent the most time with, that served as the final push for his realization. But let's just leave it to the damsel-in-distress princess, who also happens to have the hots for him, to be the one.

Back to SC; I started chapter 4 yesterday, and things are getting pretty interesting. I sort of wish they utilized character POV shifts more often. Really helps with establishing that a lot of things are happening while the MC is off doing something somewhere else (also gives time to the player to warm up to other characters). Special mention to Oliver for trying to get his harem situation until Agate planted his foot down. At least he tried.

On another note, speaking to every single NPC after some relevant story event is pure suffering.
 
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