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Differences between IT and Programming/Software Development Careers?

A

Angelus Errare

Banned
WhatNXt said:
Having done both the only advice I would offer is this:

- I find programming to be more fun and creative. I never stop learning.
- When you're in general IT / admin or networking you're always learning too, but in my experience the overwhelming pressure is to just make things "work".

The enjoyment to be derived from the latter probably depends a lot on your level of responsibility. Too much responsibility and too little time, or too little resources (too small a team) or crap understanding of the topics at hand from above is a recipe for the kind of stress that is just not worth it. If you're going to take work in a technical discipline, make sure the people above you understand it and what it entails. I've worked with too many managers who don't have a fucking clue. They don't want to be "blinded by science", or tricky things like licensing or feasibility, they just want it done.

For me, it felt like there was a wall with sys admin and networking. I either knew how to set up the network the way they wanted to or I didn't. Programming is different. It feels like the sky is the limit if you have the imagination, and the only inhibiting factors are time and resources. I enjoy the challenge of programming more.

In general both are well suited to people who like finding 'solutions'. When you're in a good environment, the feeling of satisfaction for finding the right solution, and in such a timely way that it impresses people - there's nothing quite like that. But another piece of advice, or more of a warning, would be: when you're good at something, people want more from you. More work, same amount of time. Be careful of teams or management who have you creating things too quickly, at pace, and leave you little time to support what you've already created. And be careful of teams that don't have a proper planning, iterative agile system in place, and teams that never sign anything off as complete or finished. Be careful of teams that don't involve the technical roles or development staff in decision making. Scope creep is a nightmare when it's not your fault.

I think what I'm trying to say is - the company and the environment are almost more important than the career you choose. The career you choose is still important, but try and go in to something where you can actually be happy and productive. If you enter a job and its shit and unenjoyable, don't waste your time like I did, get out, move on to better things and let some other poor sap do it.
Click to expand...

This so much! Like it makes a HUGE difference in your enjoyment of your job and the career itself. You can love software development but land at a company that makes you think about killing yourself, and likewise you might be indifferent towards the IT but land in a company that helps you grow in so many ways.

It's really all about the company and environment.
 
B

bwakh

Member
WhatNXt said:
Having done both the only advice I would offer is this:

- I find programming to be more fun and creative. I never stop learning.
- When you're in general IT / admin or networking you're always learning too, but in my experience the overwhelming pressure is to just make things "work".

The enjoyment to be derived from the latter probably depends a lot on your level of responsibility. Too much responsibility and too little time, or too little resources (too small a team) or crap understanding of the topics at hand from above is a recipe for the kind of stress that is just not worth it. If you're going to take work in a technical discipline, make sure the people above you understand it and what it entails. I've worked with too many managers who don't have a fucking clue. They don't want to be "blinded by science", or tricky things like licensing or feasibility, they just want it done.

For me, it felt like there was a wall with sys admin and networking. I either knew how to set up the network the way they wanted to or I didn't. Programming is different. It feels like the sky is the limit if you have the imagination, and the only inhibiting factors are time and resources. I enjoy the challenge of programming more.

In general both are well suited to people who like finding 'solutions'. When you're in a good environment, the feeling of satisfaction for finding the right solution, and in such a timely way that it impresses people - there's nothing quite like that. But another piece of advice, or more of a warning, would be: when you're good at something, people want more from you. More work, same amount of time. Be careful of teams or management who have you creating things too quickly, at pace, and leave you little time to support what you've already created. And be careful of teams that don't have a proper planning, iterative agile system in place, and teams that never sign anything off as complete or finished. Be careful of teams that don't involve the technical roles or development staff in decision making. Scope creep is a nightmare when it's not your fault.

I think what I'm trying to say is - the company and the environment are almost more important than the career you choose. The career you choose is still important, but try and go in to something where you can actually be happy and productive. If you enter a job and its shit and unenjoyable, don't waste your time like I did, get out, move on to better things and let some other poor sap do it.
Click to expand...

Agree with almost all of this.
 
P

pje122

Member
And don't worry about making job-related threads, OP. They're fine.
Just don't take every reply here at face value.
 
A

Angelus Errare

Banned
isaacnukem said:
I love software development and I hate math. Where do I fall? Also, I'm an IT guy. So, er.
Click to expand...

Unless you're specifically entering the software development field to do 3D rendering/simulation of any kind, Machine Learning, Data Analysis, or a job specializing in folding/number crunching you're not going to be doing much math. And the math you do is so basic it's basically subconscious most of the time.
 
T

TheChewyWaffles

Member
IT Security is hot, hot, hot right now in the corporate world, but personally I would find the subject matter boring. A programmer with good problem-solving skills and general know-how should be able to slide into almost any IT role long-term. My advice is to start there and move up and/or laterally if you find IT Security interesting.
 
K

Kickz

Member
SOLDIER said:
Could you explain in more detail how this works? What would I learn and what kind of certificate would I get upon completion? Is this the best way to get my foot in the door and work from there?

And if it’s a 9-5 schedule then I wouldn’t be able to work anymore, unless it’s not every day (and even then it’s unlikely I could get approval for every week). I wouldn’t commit to something like that unless it was a guarantee I would get a better job in three months.
Click to expand...

I did it at a program called the Software Guild, they were accredited through a University at the time I attended, you a certifcate for finishing the course which if you want can apply to credits for a CompSci degree. And yes around 2 months in you interview with companies they have in their employer network. I had a position secured before I finished the program =]

And yes the 9 to 5pm (usually later as you get tutoring for projects you work on), and atleast 3 months is important, because it gives you time to get immersed in software development. Its like learning a new language and you do that best by getting 100% immersed.
 
K

Kickz

Member
TarpitCarnivore said:
The first statement is a bit false. Just because you're writing code doesn't mean you wont be talking to people. You're going to have to talk to your teammates: product/project managers, other devs, designers, qa, VPs (maybe).

I also highly recommend against boot camps as a career entry way, especially now.
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Yea but I am talking customers, fellow employees is no big deal.

Also bootcamps are great, as long as you can find one with a good rep, I recommend it just for the job networking alone, never mind the skills gained
 
J

Just_myles

Member
Radec said:
Been working as a software developer for like 7-8 years now mostly on Database/Back-end data for telecom/banks/insurance companies.

Most of the things I've learned are over the course of working on it. Especially on SQL/PL/SQL. These can be learned online too if you're not lazy. Hell most of the time I just google them if I forgot something or not sure what to use on a certain logic or such.

You can also get into IT even if you're not a programmer or developer. You can be a Business Analyst. But that needs alot of understanding on the system that you will be working on as you will be designing what the programmers will code.
Click to expand...

Bruh, I just started using psql.... game changer.
 
K

Kelsdesu

Member
You know what, OP. I just want you to know that there is no easy answer, or quick solution. Im not saying thats what you're looking for, but alot of people are putting you on game, which is good, but its ultimately up to you to make a move and decide. If its a 1 year cert, bootcamp, or traditional route. You gotta move forward and commit.

Just my two cents.
 
G

Gunslinger

Member
I know the title of software engineer gets thrown around too much these days but do you guys think SE and SD (developer) are the same thing?
 
F

Fou-Lu

Member
I understand where you're at OP. I am getting my Master of Science in Physics and have come to realize I want to be a programmer (specifically for games, but honestly I just love programming in general), not a physicist. Coming to the realization was both liberating and terrifying. Liberating because I finally found something that felt like how my friends and family have always talked about the fields they love. Terrifying because I have to figure out how to transfer my current skills and build up the ones I am missing before I graduate so I can actually find a job I will enjoy. I am tempted to just do a second Bachelor's in Comp Sci because it would only take two years and be really good for filling in those blanks, but I am already very far into debt and taking on more is probably an awful idea. I also don't want to be turned away from interviews because I lack the proper credentials though.
 
B

BreakyBoy

o_O @_@ O_o
Fou-Lu said:
I am tempted to just do a second Bachelor's in Comp Sci because it would only take two years and be really good for filling in those blanks, but I am already very far into debt and taking on more is probably an awful idea. I also don't want to be turned away from interviews because I lack the proper credentials though.
Click to expand...

Well, far be it from me to dissuade anyone from further education, but I will say that I have had a rather successful career and all I've mustered over several aborted attempts at a Bachelor's in CS is a general Associate of Arts from a local community college.

Also, some of the best co-workers I've had have been those with either a degree in a different field (e.g. one was an English major, another was Linguistics), or no degree at all. I've also had plenty of excellent co-workers with CS degrees.

My point is don't overly stress. If you're near completing your degree, then finish it. If you can squeeze some CS courses in, then do so. Make use of the resources you have in the CS department and tell them you're interested in a career in programming. Ultimately, ability and experience (and networking, as always) trump education.

You might have a slightly rockier road to start, but the demand is high enough that you should be fine, and once you've got your foot in the door and a few years of experience, your degree will matter less and less.

Again, I'm not trying to dissuade you from the second degree if that's what you want. It's almost certainly easier to get that foot in the door with a CS degree. And honestly, I still hope to go back and finish my degree someday. I'm just saying that having a degree in Physics is definitely not a deal breaker.


Gunslinger said:
I know the title of software engineer gets thrown around too much these days but do you guys think SE and SD (developer) are the same thing?
Click to expand...

They really shouldn't be, but in practice they very often are.

For several years, across several jobs, my title has been "*something* Engineer". I sure as hell never got certified by any board or agency or anything.
 
J

Just_myles

Member
Radec said:
Yeah, its pretty huge too.
Click to expand...

Seriously for my workflow, I no longer have to write these insane loops in dynamic SQL or some kind of wrapper script. I can use the command line and execute my code (as a file using -f.) one transaction at a time with psql.

Radec said:
Lots of jobs in the market, im currently planning to migrate to ETL/Data Warehousing/BI.
Click to expand...

That's cool. I do a lot of that here to. You should look at data transformation utilities like Talend(open source and flexible) and Contivo(expensive and rigid).
 
S

SOLDIER

Member
QuantumZebra said:
From everything you've said - I feel IT is for you:

It is far less stressful than development / programming (less timetables, crunch time, writer's block when it comes to creativity, etc....).

It is LESS flexible (typically) than programming because oftentimes you need to be by your IT closet or at the office to fix/work on things (as a SysAdmin though I can do 75% of my job remotely once I got everything virtualized and set up for VPN/RDP).

The bonus of IT is that you have periods of "lull time" - where you have no projects you're working on, no stuff to do, nothing is broken, and you're just chilling (think being a firefighter). During those lulls I hone my programming (working on Python to do GameDev for fun).
Click to expand...

I like the sound of that. I most certainly enjoy jobs where I have lots of downtime....so long as I’m given the freedom to do things during that downtime. I’m the kind of person who constantly multitasks, from checking e-mail to downloading stuff to earning mythril in Final Fantasy Record Keeper (I’m even doing that as I type this). I’m glued to the internet one way or another, and I consume media in various forms at all times.

TrounceX said:
I don't have time to make a hyper detailed post right now, but I am a cybersecurity consultant so I have some experience here. I'll make a more detailed response to the OP's questions later if I find time.

To a few points being made:

1. The cybersecurity job market is one fire and there is a HUGE employment deficit and skills deficit. Look at this article. What this means is it's easy as hell to get a job, and if you're good, companies will throw money at you like you won't believe. I am 26 with a 2 year degree making over six figures.

2. IT is about solving problems. Finding solutions to problems is a satisfying creative endeavor. Particular to cybersecurity, doing analysis and tracking down malicious activity is basically like playing detective. It's immensely satisfying to use analysis tools to build a case of what you think happened, or to trail down a breach.

3. Programming skills are a huge value add to an cybersecurity analyst. We have a few guys who are great at Python and they are constantly on interesting projects, like reverse engineering malcode, threat hunting scripts, doing API pulls from different data sources etc. Just today I was looking at a Javascript file and trying to figure out exactly what it did so that I could verify if it ran or not.
Click to expand...

Is there a difference between IT and Cybersecurity? This is part of the problem when it comes to nailing down a career point: I’ve always got people insisting I “get into IT”, without any of them knowing specifically what IT is or what kind of IT job I should have. Between that and software development, I’m really trying to narrow things down so I can have a clearer picture of what career is the best fit for me.

And to the person who asked why I want to have a career in either field anyway: the short (and probably unsatisfying) answer is that I’m always in front of a computer or other device. I’m the type who will nab the latest console or iPhone/iPad, configure the settings like crazy, hack when it seems convenient for me...I’m very meticulous when it comes to arranging my files, customizing my settings, optimizing everything to get it “perfect”. Basically I’m a tech junkie.

Whether that actually translates into either IT or Programming...well, that’s what I’m trying to figure out. If I try to ponder beyond that and wonder if I could be a pharmacist or journalist or anything else, then I’ll NEVER be done wondering.

But at the end of the day, the two most important things for me regarding a career are:

1. Job Security

2. Income (not looking to strike it rich, but lots of money is required to live comfortabtly and healthy)

The job market needs to be healthy too. I got a Bachelor’s Degree in Criminal Justice, and it took me years to get the position I have now. Years of hiring freezes and long, looooong background checks played a role, and I don’t want to go through that shit again. Whatever I decide on, I want to be hired nearly immediately.

iOS development was something someone brought up as well. I’m curious what that entails.
 
TheContact

TheContact

Member
I’m in IT and my friend is a programmer. I can’t say for sure whether this is across the board, but I work a 40 hr work week and my friend works around 80. He also makes around double what I make though, but he’s also been doing it for 10 more years than I have
 
S

SOLDIER

Member
TesUsa said:
I’m in IT and my friend is a programmer. I can’t say for sure whether this is across the board, but I work a 40 hr work week and my friend works around 80. He also makes around double what I make though, but he’s also been doing it for 10 more years than I have
Click to expand...

Wouldn’t he also make double because he works double the hours you do?

Hey, I know math after all.
 
S

SOLDIER

Member
Spoke to an IT employee at work, he suggested I start with a Tier 2 position (Tier 2 Help Desk, Tier 2 Tech, etc) because it has you dabbling in different fields at once, and from there I could figure out which area I want to focus on for a long-term career.

Sounds like a good plan?
 
E

ElectricKaibutsu

Member
SOLDIER said:
Spoke to an IT employee at work, he suggested I start with a Tier 2 position (Tier 2 Help Desk, Tier 2 Tech, etc) because it has you dabbling in different fields at once, and from there I could figure out which area I want to focus on for a long-term career.

Sounds like a good plan?
Click to expand...

If you can start off in that position, sure. But you're probably going to have to start at tier 1. I started tier 1. It was awful. But short, fortunately. It's possible to move up quickly if you even show a little initiative.

Tier 2/3 is fine though depending on the company. My company is a bit smaller so I've gotten my hands in a lot of pies, which is great for gaining knowledge. I do very little support now, which I'm happy about. My phone is on permanent DND.
 
S

SmokinGunZ1981

Member
SOLDIER said:
Spoke to an IT employee at work, he suggested I start with a Tier 2 position (Tier 2 Help Desk, Tier 2 Tech, etc) because it has you dabbling in different fields at once, and from there I could figure out which area I want to focus on for a long-term career.

Sounds like a good plan?
Click to expand...

I might have missed this so apologises if so, but what qualifications, experience, specialisation do you currently have?

I only ask as we're currently recruiting for a range of support roles at the company I work for and we'd expect some kind of specialisation for a Tier 2 position.
 
N

Nafai1123

Banned
I started in a tier 1 support/help desk role and have been moving into systems engineering/cloud admin/infrastructure. I had no formal education in the field whatsoever but have done (company paid) training since.

Honestly I think the company you work for matters the most. Some look for specific roles off the bat when hiring, while others look for people they can develop at lower initial income levels. The field is so broad I think it helps to develop many different skills.

I like IT because, at least in my experience, people care very little about what you're doing as long as everything is working. It seems more relaxed compared to programming which is right up my alley....except of course when you're doing shit like a datacenter move and have to work 17 hour days to get the production environment back up ASAP...
 
C

CreepingFear

Member
OP wants easy solutions that none of us can give. Whether starting off in programming or IT support, he/she is going to have to work from the bottom to get to the top. There are exceptions such as if they know the right person or if they are extremely smart/talented, but those are the outliers.
 
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