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Gaming community’s obsession w/ loot anyway?

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
I can remember as far back as Borderlands where having to stop and go to pick up loot was a big part of the game, than everywhere crates starting popping up (COD Zombies, Uncharted). Is this merely a trend or here for good? I’m interested in your opinions.
 

Basoes

Member
Unless there's enough backlash and loss of sales then it will be here for good.

as it prays on peoples addictions, it's just too profitable to give up
 

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Unless there's enough backlash and loss of sales then it will be here for good.

as it prays on peoples addictions, it's just too profitable to give up
If that’s the case I’m going to embrace it and hopefully those crates turn into boxes where you don’t have to pick the lock hahah
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Are you thinking about the concept of loot in general? If so, this will probably always be popular. Getting random drops of loot will always to exciting some degree, doesnt matter if its in-game like and RPG or Diablo, or crates in newer games that you either can earn through playing or purchase.
 

Insaniac

Member
Are you mixing up the concept of a Loot game, and Loot boxes? Borderlands was a looter shooter, and had no sort of micro transaction loot box
 

Basoes

Member
If this is about dropped Loot in games then, yea I love it, nothing like seeing a nice shiny item on the floor only to be disappointing when you see what it is, it's one of the reasons why I love diablo
 
It's been around way longer than Borderlands.

I don't know if it counts as "loot" but I remember playing beat em ups and enemies would drop coins that added to your points and might drop like a bat or a knife that you could pick up and fight with. RPGs put more into it but it's the same core thing imo.

I don't really understand the current issues around them and loot boxes, but the games I end up picking up usually don't have them (outside of Halo 5) so it could just be me totally in the dark. For people more familiar, did something happen since Halo 5 and now loot boxes are way more nefarious or it still just Halo 5/Magic the Gathering/Booster pack thing it's always been?
 
It's an easy way to make any activity psychologically addictive. It's an old, well-studied trick.

I feel was gets confusing with games is that the compelling nature of the addiction is extremely closely related to the traditional fun factor, so much so that it's probably indistinguishable for most players. There's not some enormous difference between "I need to play this game!" versus "I want to play this game!" I wish it was otherwise, but I'm not entirely convinced the two feelings are different in any meaningful way.

You can make a fairly easy moral argument that trying to addict your users is shady behavior. The question becomes where is the line you shouldn't cross, and that's a very hard question. On some level even just making some tank explode in pretty colors when it's shot is operant conditioning, but there's clearly an enormous difference between that and gacha boxes. The problem is figuring out the huge middle area in-between.

All that said, it's clear that loot boxes have a bad impact on game design, even outside of moral issues, so they are easy to criticize. Even if they do become the norm, it then becomes relatively easy to design an objectively superior game that doesn't use them, giving some kind of competitive advantage.
 

Honome

Member
Are you mixing up the concept of a Loot game, and Loot boxes? Borderlands was a looter shooter, and had no sort of micro transaction loot box

Exactly, loot and loot boxes are very different things. Loot in games are no problem at all since they're not tied to microtransactions, loot boxes are a cancer.
 

BibiMaghoo

Member
Looting is a classic and potentially enjoyable mechanic. Having crates with prizes of cosmetic or mechanic value is rewarding. .

Taking enjoyable game mechanics or items, putting them in a box and trying and sell that box for cash is crap though.
 

Fishook

Member
Loot and Loot boxes are here to stay, as people like collecting virtual tat. I just find it has gotten way too much these days.
 

nick_b

Member
I strongly dislike that type of loot system in general. I want upgrades that feel substantial and are few and far between. Not the tiny bullshit upgrades every 2 minutes.
 

Dunki

Member
Honestly as long as I can also buy these boxes with ingame money I am totally fine with it. actually like the thrill and hope I always have when I open such a box or draw some card in a gacha game.

I think many people are just upset because they feel they could progress much faster without these boxes. In a time when people do not like long games anymore and with the knowledge that they actually could speed up the game by buying boxess they feel cheated and betrayed.

I on the other hand enjoy my long games. For example I also could buy EXP boosts for various JRPGS but I never felt the need for it. Instead I just play 50 hours^^
 

Narroo

Member
Even if they do become the norm, it then becomes relatively easy to design an objectively superior game that doesn't use them, giving some kind of competitive advantage.

Are you sure about that? The game might be better as a game, but it'll be less profitable and less addictive.

Think about it like this: Monopoly, Chutes and Ladders, Candy Land, and so on are some of the worst board games that exist, and yet they're the most popular ones.
 

RavageX

Member
I like loot as in finding cool gear from killing a boss, or solving a puzzle, etc.

The second I have to pay real money though....no thanks.
 
I can remember as far back as Borderlands where having to stop and go to pick up loot was a big part of the game, than everywhere crates starting popping up (COD Zombies, Uncharted). Is this merely a trend or here for good? I'm interested in your opinions.

The "spend money get a random prize" mechanic has been around for a long time. Baseball cards, those 25 cent capsule dispensers, cracker jack toys etc.

Random loot has been in games a long time as well, Diablo on PC and Phantasy Star for consoles for example.

Back in the day there used to be a stigma attached to spending real money for virtual goods. In 2006, there was oblivion horse armor and that had a lot of backlash because it was considered excessively expensive and pointless for a single player game. But people's views on this has changed... case in point, assassins creed origins has plenty of horse (and camel) armor.

Loot boxes are just a natural evolution of random loot and the acceptance to pay for virtual goods.
 

JordanN

Banned
It's all Valve's fault.

They managed to pass of a Hat simulator as a video game. Why make games when you can just sell boxes full of cosmetics.

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Are you sure about that? The game might be better as a game, but it'll be less profitable and less addictive.

Think about it like this: Monopoly, Chutes and Ladders, Candy Land, and so on are some of the worst board games that exist, and yet they're the most popular ones.

Profitability is a huge question, no doubt about that. But even though player addiction is a potent way to keep people playing, it's probably not so much something you can market. Theoretically a rival upstart could advertise that they don't require this abusive grind and it could take some serious marketshare.

Obviously this doesn't mean much in a case like Star Wars, because it's the franchise that is selling and that's exclusive, but I'm speaking in really broad generalities. I might argue that Valve actually did exactly this sort of thing with Dota 2, and while it didn't destroy League by any means "all characters, free" definitely gave it a boost. League also responded by becoming more generous, and a lot of smaller rivals (Smite, Awesomenauts) went with more generous unlock methods. It's not so much a technique to destroy the leader as it is a potent way to advertise your own product, creating a place for it.
 
To me, Diablo 2 set the loot bar and it still hasn't been toppled. although other games have beat aspects of gameplay/content, as a package it still reigns supreme.

Loot is awesome when done in the Diablo archetype. Collecting items in an arpg like this is fun because it makes you look cool, has statistical, visual and gameplay enhancing properties, has a rarity parallel to how much it enhances those things, and has interplay between other items and passive/active abilities, are obtained by beating harder and harder enemies that can only be defeated by progressing your created character, and so on. So some may call it a trick, but to me it requires a mastery found in few other games. It's almost like doing chemistry in a videogame, and the point is to achieve more powerful character "formulas" that build up through time (grinding), skill (active gameplay), and strategy (stat allocation and interplay).

But not all games are well rounded in these areas. Destiny is way more active and advanced in the skilled gameplay department but much weaker with the loot/progression system. If you don't have that, that loot dopamine drip isn't dripping right. I don't really know where I'm going with this at this point but...yeah, loot can be tight.
 

JimmyRustler

Gold Member
I'm honestly baffled at the obsession as well but then again, I don't get the draw to gambling in general and apparently a lot of people like it.

Games generally have a hard time making loot hunting interesting to me. Destiny managed to hit the itch for me well for some time because the weapons not only had different stats but actually quite a few cool and unique features. Diablo on the other hand... Never understood it, especially when people grinded the game for loot even though they have already finished it on the hardest difficulty just to get better loot. Like, what for?
 

Triteon

Member
People like drops, even going back to P&P rpgs. Finding random loot in a dungeon and rolling on the tables hoping you would get something useful or interesting.

It was a reward for the player or something that might alter your character/build or the campaign going forward. Fun innocent stuff really.

This was carried foward in videogames (with variation here and there) and for a long ass time it wasnt an issue.

At some point though random loot started to be used as a way to retain players. Feels like alot of work was done, to find out the perfect ratios for a steady dopamine hit.

But now its not just a way to retain players, the ability to have a chance to roll for loot has become its own source of revenue. Which is really gross to me personally.
 
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