• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Announcing games way before they're ready

L

LOLDSFAN

Member
TheGeniusArcana said:
SMTxFE's early announment along with Yoshi's Willy World always struck me as Nintendo panicking a bit because of the Wii U's situation.
Click to expand...

Every time they showed Wooly World during an event or direct, I became a little bit more and more less excited because I felt like I was watching the same thing each time.

2D platformers should come out within 12 months or less of the initial reveal.
 
K

Kieli

Member
More_Badass said:
Let me ask this. Why does it matter? There are countless other games to play and pass the time, and countless other games that will get announced and grab your interest between one game's reveal and release.

Is it merely a patience thing?
Click to expand...

Overly long marketing/hype cycle results in unrealistic expectations and/or fatigue.

Also, I don't like waiting. :mad:
 
H

Hoje0308

Banned
More_Badass said:
Let me ask this. Why does it matter? There are countless other games to play and pass the time, and countless other games that will get announced and grab your interest between one game's reveal and release.

Is it merely a patience thing?
Click to expand...

Avoiding spoilers can be a pain if there's a couple years of press to avoid. I don't care about that so much though. What sometimes bothers me is a dearth of media for six months or more following an exciting announcement. See also: Spidey PS4.
 
M

More_Badass

Member
Kieli said:
Overly long marketing/hype cycle results in unrealistic expectations and/or fatigue.

Also, I don't like waiting. :mad:
Click to expand...
Long development and marketing/hype cycle are two different things.

And the other part is on the person, not the devs IMO, unless the claims and scope are unrealistic

Hoje0308 said:
Avoiding spoilers can be a pain if there's a couple years of press to avoid. I don't care about that so much though. What sometimes bothers me is a dearth of media for six months or more following an exciting announcement. See also: Spidey PS4.
Click to expand...
That's just the nature of development (and the nature of E3/expos, got to have games to show). Especially when something is early.

And AAA isn't as transparent as indie development. A lot of indie devs have devlogs so you can get regular updates and whatnot. AAA devs tend to keep their heads down until they're ready to show stuff
 
C

Cuburt

Member
OrbitalBeard said:
Sony isn't any worse about this than Nintendo and Microsoft. I'll remind you of the infamous January 2013 Nintendo Direct. And I'm still waiting on Crackdown 3, almost three years since its announcement.

I'm not seeing the issue with announcing a game really early, as long as it's communicated clearly to consumers that the project is far away. This is exactly what Sony and Naughty Dog did before revealing The Last of Us Part 2. They made clear the title is very early in development and a long way off. Not really seeing any issue with this approach. To me, the problem is when you start giving release windows and continually miss them, as was the case with Breath of the Wild. It's been pushed out of two calendar years. This is something I take issue with.
Click to expand...

It's hard to say Nintendo is as bad when they constantly wait until 6 months before they are planning to a release a game to even let people know it exists. Do we even know any Nintendo developed games for the Switch coming in 2018?

People are flipping out about a lack of content and now would be the time to throw out names just to assuage all the worries of the most hysterically paranoid fan and they still don't do it. I mean we are talking about the same fans that think a franchise is dead if Nintendo doesn't talk about it for a year, but for better or worse, they generally stick to the idea that if it's not far along enough to show off, they don't say nothing.
 
S

Smellycat

Member
Xenoblade 2 isn't coming out this year. The only reason why it was pencilled for this year is because it was revealed during the launch conference. It would be kind of odd to reveal a first party game during your console reveal and then say it is coming out next year.
 
O

OrbitalBeard

Member
Cuburt said:
It's hard to say Nintendo is as bad when they constantly wait until 6 months before they are planning to a release a game to even let people know it exists. Do we even know any Nintendo developed games for the Switch coming in 2018?

People are flipping out about a lack of content and now would be the time to throw out names just to assuage all the worries of the most hysterically paranoid fan and they still don't do it. I mean we are talking about the same fans that think a franchise is dead if Nintendo doesn't talk about it for a year, but for better or worse, they generally stick to the idea that if it's not far along enough to show off, they don't say nothing.
Click to expand...

Sure, Nintendo announces plenty of games six months or under before launch. But they also announce plenty of games that are years off. So, I guess it's fair to say they're better than the other guys sometimes, but just as bad as them often enough.
 
L

Lil'DigiOp

Member
More_Badass said:
Let me ask this. Why does it matter? There are countless other games to play and pass the time, and countless other games that will get announced and grab your interest between one game's reveal and release.

Is it merely a patience thing?
Click to expand...

So spend that marketing time talking about those games then?

Why do I need to keep seeing a title that is 3 years down the road. Thats a waste of time IMO. Pure conference padder..

Apples announcement to release window is a perfect strategy. Thats how you maximize "hype" into sales.

Nobody cares about titles 3-4 years down the road, thats too long to generate interest in.

For Example, Mario Oddessey is a perfect announcement. First reveal is a gameplay trailer ( Major Key ), Second is a solid release period / Holiday 2017 ( Major Key )

Now, Nintendo literally has all year to plan marketing strategy. Maybe a update at E3 with a new trailer, A Direct in the end of summer about game details leading right into preview season before launch.

This is how you launch a game.
 
M

More_Badass

Member
girlfriendofagamer said:
Nobody cares about titles 3-4 years down the road, thats too long to generate interest in.
Click to expand...
That's the whole point. You don't need to care for all that time. You aren't meant to care for four years, or 5, or 8, unless it's a Kickstarter or something and you're actively following development and updates. A new trailer or preview or launch announcement will come around to interest you. In the meantime, the devs will work until they're ready to generate interest again, and you will play myriad other games that will release.

And games like The Witness, Inside, Tides, Indivisible, Battletech, and so on show your comment is mistaken. People do care. They just care more when the devs release new info.
 
L

Lil'DigiOp

Member
More_Badass said:
That's the whole point. You don't need to care for all that time. You aren't meant to care for four years, or 5, or 8. A new trailer or preview or launch announcement will come around to interest you. In the meantime, the devs will work until they're ready to generate interest again, and you will play myriad other games that will release.

And games like The Witness, Inside, Tides, Indivisible, Battletech, and so on show your comment is mistaken. People do care. They just care more when the devs release new info.
Click to expand...

So again, Why announce it?

Its rather pointless cant you agree?
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
girlfriendofagamer said:
So again, Why announce it?

Its rather pointless cant you agree?
Click to expand...

Because some people do care, and I imagine retailers like it because it allows them to sell preorders. People that don't care can simply....continue not caring? I'm with More_badass I have no idea why this bothers people so much, short of the whole "i can't help myself from clicking threads and hyping/spoiling myself" kind of thing.
 
mortal

mortal

Gold Member
It's a practice that needs to fucking stop honestly. The one thing worst than announcing a game with a pre-rendered CGI trailer. I can't stand it.

Never ever believe the hype.
 
L

Lil'DigiOp

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
Because some people do care, and I imagine retailers like it because it allows them to sell preorders. People that don't care can simply....continue not caring? I'm with More_badass I have no idea why this bothers people so much, short of the whole "i can't help myself from clicking threads and hyping/spoiling myself" kind of thing.
Click to expand...

xxracerxx said:
Well, that is just wrong.
Click to expand...

Okay so these games need to be dragged out front and center every year at E3 when the time could be better spent on a title that actually releases that year?

I mean, Is that not a reasonable suggestion that arguably has some business sense involved?

Can these 3-4 year titles not just pop a trailer every now and then to update the crowd thats interested?

The point here is that these 3-4 year games are consistently the dog and pony show of events. They get treated like the main display of content and they aren't releasing anytime soon. Im not asking for the world here, just better marketing strategy for titles that actually are ready to go gold for release.
 
M

More_Badass

Member
Of course the real question that really needs to be answered and defined here is what constitutes as "ready"?

girlfriendofagamer said:
So again, Why announce it?

Its rather pointless cant you agree?
Click to expand...
- Might want to hire new devs and talent to work on the project
- Want to show their audience and fans what they're working on. If it's an indie dev, fans often like to follow development.
- Because they feel it's ready to revealed
 
L

Lil'DigiOp

Member
More_Badass said:
Of course the real question that really needs to be answered and defined here is what constitutes as "ready"?


- Might want to hire new devs and talent to work on the project
- Want to show their audience and fans what they're working on. If it's an indie dev, fans often like to follow development.
- Because they feel it's ready to revealed
Click to expand...

I can agree with bolded.

For argument sake, my definition of ready is 7-9 months before going gold. Don't really care what the industry trend is, I just think thats a better strategy all around. If I was making a game, I wouldn't announce until I was around the time period in milestones.

Again, the main point of contention is that these 4 year games are treated with the most focus in trade shows. Thats dumb, focus on what your audience can play this year. Nobody is saying Don't announce games ahead of time, We're saying don't make 3 year games the focus of your show.

Edit: Actually an added point to everything above, Not only do these games get announced 3-4 years early, then in the immediate interviews after show, The Devs can't talk about anything. Everything is "Details coming later, We're still working on this that"

I mean come on, Im not being foolish, They announce the games and then they can't talk about shit, Just to add salt then you have complete radio silence for months until the next big trade event to even hear about the next details. Why do you think there are so many "Where was ____?" Threads after trade shows on GAF?

Im not crazy, thats just dumb shit, I don't know how this should be okay
 
X

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
girlfriendofagamer said:
Okay so these games need to be dragged out front and center every year at E3 when the time could be better spent on a title that actually releases that year?

I mean, Is that not a reasonable suggestion that arguably has some business sense involved?

Can these 3-4 year titles not just pop a trailer every now and then to update the crowd thats interested?

The point here is that these 3-4 year games are consistently the dog and pony show of events. They get treated like the main display of content and they aren't releasing anytime soon. Im not asking for the world here, just better marketing strategy for titles that actually are ready to go gold for release.
Click to expand...
That is what happens...at big shows. Since those are the games people are anticipating. You are also acting like as the years go by most of these 3-4 year games are still 3-4 years out.
 
M

More_Badass

Member
girlfriendofagamer said:
I can agree with bolded.

For argument sake, my definition of ready is 7-9 months before going gold. Don't really care what the industry trend is, I just think thats a better strategy all around. If I was making a game, I wouldn't announce until I was around the time period in milestones.

Again, the main point of contention is that these 4 year games are treated with the most focus in trade shows. Thats dumb, focus on what your audience can play this year. Nobody is saying Don't announce games ahead of time, We're saying don't make 3 year games the focus of your show.
Click to expand...
Blame the publishers and Sony/Microsoft/etc. for that.

And I don't understand why you're classifying them as "3-4 year games". For one, it's kind of silly to classify games by length of development, because you never learn about a game when it's actually just started development.

And besides indie games, how many games actually get announced and then release 3-4 years later? That would be a game revealed in 2012 releasing in 2016. A year or two is the most common. Anything more than that, especially among AAA games, seems like an outlier
 
L

Lil'DigiOp

Member
xxracerxx said:
That is what happens...at big shows. Since those are the games people are anticipating. You are also acting like as the years go by most of these 3-4 year games are still 3-4 years out.
Click to expand...

Nobodys acting like that but the cycle continues.

Here comes a new trailer for a new 3-4 year game.
 
H

hatchx

Banned
LOLDSFAN said:
Every time they showed Wooly World during an event or direct, I became a little bit more and more less excited because I felt like I was watching the same thing each time.

2D platformers should come out within 12 months or less of the initial reveal.
Click to expand...


Yoshi taking over 2 years from reveal was a bit odd. I find it hard to believe it really took so long to make. The team must have been small.
 
L

Lil'DigiOp

Member
xxracerxx said:
But you just asked for a trailer to pop every once in awhile. Where better to get people excited than big trade shows?
Click to expand...

More_Badass said:
Blame the publishers and Sony/Microsoft/etc. for that.

And I don't understand why you're classifying them as "3-4 year games". For one, it's kind of silly to classify games by length of development, because you never learn about a game when it's actually just started development.

And besides indie games, how many games actually get announced and then release 3-4 years later? That would be a game revealed in 2012 released in 2016. A year or two is the most common. Anything more than that, especially among AAA games, sem
Click to expand...

Death Stranding is a 2018 game if its lucky.

TLoU2 is 2019 at the earliest.

Will Spiderman make it this year? Maybe, maybe not. Marketing sense says it should be this year but we'll see.

God of War will be 2018 at the earliest.

Essentially, there should be more Detroit, Horizon and Days Gone showed off. Then again even Days Gone could be pushed to 2018 but I doubt it.


You see? How uncertain are we on the release schedules of these games. Its fantastic to know their coming, Im dying to play them. but It does me no good to try and bait me to being excited with pretty much no details and knowing they have a couple years left in the oven. Thats why Id rather they have focused on Nioh, Gravity Rush 2 & Nier last year. Those were the games to get a focus cus thats what we're gonna be playing right now.

We'll see what E3 brings
 
V

vonStirlitz

Unconfirmed Member
[Redacted as the member no longer wishes to be associated with this website, and the reputational damage and distress caused by association with this website. In addition, the user considers that the action of the management, and the nature of the site and members of its community, renders the original terms and conditions of this site void, and it unconscionable for either side to be bound to them. The user reasserts their IP rights in all content and does not give any authority for its continued usage on this website. Despite requesting that the user's account be deleted, in accordance with data protection rules which apply to this website over multiple jurisdictions, the admin team have failed to delete this account, requiring the user to take its own steps to ensure the valid deletion of data.]
 
C

commissar

Member
I'm fine with early announcements, if they then sit quiet on it until there's something to show.

I'd much rather know there's a bunch of games I want to play coming to the Switch in a few years time, than have the uncertainty of whether I'll be playing much of anything past launch.
 
O

OrbitalBeard

Member
hatchx said:
Yoshi taking over 2 years from reveal was a bit odd. I find it hard to believe it really took so long to make. The team must have been small.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure when Woolly World was announced, it had just entered full production. The footage shown in January 2013 looked like prototype video.

Now I'm curious to know what Good Feel is working on for Switch...
 
T

TheSpaceBetween

Member
Smellycat said:
Xenoblade 2 isn't coming out this year. The only reason why it was pencilled for this year is because it was revealed during the launch conference. It would be kind of odd to reveal a first party game during your console reveal and then say it is coming out next year.
Click to expand...

Dreams was announced at the PS4 reveal :p.
 
M

More_Badass

Member
girlfriendofagamer said:
You see? How uncertain are we on the release schedules of these games. Its fantastic to know their coming, Im dying to play them. but It does me no good to try and bait me to being excited with pretty much no details and knowing they have a couple years left in the oven.
Click to expand...
Then don't? It's that simple.

You know it's in development. End there. Get excited when something new is revealed. How are the devs "baiting" you?

It's really that simple. Sounds like you're trying to twist your own desires into something the devs are responsible for.

I will give you TLOU2 and Death Stranding though. I'd imagine Sony pushed for something to show with the former, and the latter seemed like it was more of a reaction to the whole Kojima-Konami thing than anything else
 
X

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
girlfriendofagamer said:
Death Stranding is a 2018 game if its lucky.

TLoU2 is 2019 at the earliest.

Will Spiderman make it this year? Maybe, maybe not. Marketing sense says it should be this year but we'll see.

God of War will be 2018 at the earliest.

Essentially, there should be more Detroit, Horizon and Days Gone showed off. Then again even Days Gone could be pushed to 2018 but I doubt it.

You see? How uncertain are we on the release schedules of these games. Its fantastic to know their coming, Im dying to play them. but It does me no good to try and bait me to being excited with pretty much no details and knowing they have a couple years left in the oven. Thats why Id rather they have focused on Nioh, Gravity Rush 2 & Nier last year. Those were the games to get a focus cus thats what we're gonna be playing right now.

We'll see what E3 brings
Click to expand...
This sounds like more of a personal issue than a larger issue for most gamers.

Also you say you want them to focus on niche games for most of the show. That just isn't what E3 and most of these big shows are about.
 
1

120v

Member
i think it helps to take announcements with a grain of salt these days. no matter how hype a game looks i just go "oh that's cool" and lock it away in the back of my mind. it's not like there's a shortage of great games these days

ideally i'd like publishers to take the Fallout 4 "oh by the way its out in a few months" approach but i understand not every publisher has that luxury. pre-orders are reportedly down across the board so maybe the culture will change somewhat
 
L

LewieP

Member
The Nintendo stuff is absurd to me. So many of their announcements were pretty much "Hello we've not got anything to actually show, or even any release schedule in mind, but we might make a game".

No doubt they have other stuff in the pipeline that they didn't announce, but it just looked like they were unprepared.
 
R

random25

Member
OrbitalBeard said:
Sony isn't any worse about this than Nintendo and Microsoft. I'll remind you of the infamous January 2013 Nintendo Direct. And I'm still waiting on Crackdown 3, almost three years since its announcement.

I'm not seeing the issue with announcing a game really early, as long as it's communicated clearly to consumers that the project is far away. This is exactly what Sony and Naughty Dog did before revealing The Last of Us Part 2. They made clear the title is very early in development and a long way off. Not really seeing any issue with this approach. To me, the problem is when you start giving release windows and continually miss them, as was the case with Breath of the Wild. It's been pushed out of two calendar years. This is something I take issue with.
Click to expand...

In the case of Nintendo, it's only on the case of the Wii U for the most part. Can't remember the last time they announced a game on the 3DS that got delayed late. Like you said, the 2013 January direct was a panic mode that bit them hard and Zelda was basically because of the Switch, otherwise a good number of first party Wii U titles never experienced severe delays, and just about their big 3DS titles were always on time.

Sony has still yet to deliver The Last Guardian for us PS3 users though. :p

It's just the reality of HD development.
 
L

Lil'DigiOp

Member
More_Badass said:
Then don't? It's that simple.

You know it's in development. End there. Get excited when something new is revealed. How are the devs "baiting" you?

It's really that simple. Sounds like you're trying to twist your own desires into something the devs are responsible for.

I will give you TLOU2 and Death Stranding though. I'd imagine Sony pushed for something to show with the former, and the latter seemed like it was more of a reaction to the whole Kojima-Konami thing than anything else
Click to expand...

xxracerxx said:
This sounds like more of a personal issue than a larger issue for most gamers.

Also you say you want them to focus on niche games for most of the show. That just isn't what E3 and most of these big shows are about.
Click to expand...

Dang, y'all taking my verbage so literal. Im not baited, but the whole idea of this is to sell you on these games right? Peak your interest.

A game will only be niche as long as you don't bring awareness to it. Im sure a shitton of people would love Nier, Nioh, and GR2. But if you don't show it to people, how the hell do you expect them get interested?

They always keep these games buried in a sizzle reel.

Im bout to head to bed, thanks for the convo tho
 
R

Rozart

Member
OrbitalBeard said:
Sony isn't any worse about this than Nintendo and Microsoft. I'll remind you of the infamous January 2013 Nintendo Direct. And I'm still waiting on Crackdown 3, almost three years since its announcement.

I'm not seeing the issue with announcing a game really early, as long as it's communicated clearly to consumers that the project is far away. This is exactly what Sony and Naughty Dog did before revealing The Last of Us Part 2. They made clear the title is very early in development and a long way off. Not really seeing any issue with this approach. To me, the problem is when you start giving release windows and continually miss them, as was the case with Breath of the Wild. It's been pushed out of two calendar years. This is something I take issue with.
Click to expand...

Yeap, these are my exact sentiments.
 
I

Interficium

Banned
No-win situation.

Developer: "We'd like to announce our game that won't be out for two years."

Gaf: "Ugh don't say anything until you have ACTUAL GAMEPLAY to show us. I hate how devs always do this."

Insider: "I'd like to leak this unannounced game that won't be out for two years."

Gaf: "Ugh YES give it to us now! Thank God these leakers exist I hate how devs are SO OPAQUE if only they would just have transparent communication with us."
 
L

Lady Gaia

Member
Cuburt said:
It's hard to say Nintendo is as bad when they constantly wait until 6 months before they are planning to a release a game to even let people know it exists.
Click to expand...

That's clearly not the case for Zelda: Breath of the Wild. It wasn't the case for SMT x FE, either. It's very much an industry-wide thing and not just one of the big three consoles that pre-announces titles strategically. I have to agree with one of the earlier posts: why is this a big deal? Let them announce when they want to, and get as excited or not as you care to based on what you know about the schedule and the developer or publisher's history with hitting dates.
 
D

daffy

Banned
Smellycat said:
Xenoblade 2 isn't coming out this year. The only reason why it was pencilled for this year is because it was revealed during the launch conference. It would be kind of odd to reveal a first party game during your console reveal and then say it is coming out next year.
Click to expand...
I'll see you in December Smellycat ;)
 
S

StayDead

Member
More_Badass said:
Let me ask this. Why does it matter? There are countless other games to play and pass the time, and countless other games that will get announced and grab your interest between one game's reveal and release.

Is it merely a patience thing?
Click to expand...

I think it matters, it probably is a patience thing, but I hate when something I've wanted for a very long time gets announced and I have to wait like 3 years to play it.
 
G

Ghostshark

Member
Pokemon Go has been the biggest offender for me. I absolutely love the game, but the final product was absolutely nothing like the trailer. No trading, no pvp battling, no Mewtwo coming to life magically and attacking New York City.
 
P

Prisoner KSC2-303

Member
LUCKY n WILD said:
The No More Heroes 3 tease persuaded me more to get a Switch among other reasons, but I still really dislike how many opportunities Nintendo had to show off games and they didn't have much to show third-party wise.
Click to expand...

I was the opposite, as much as I loved NMH, it convinced me to wait rather than pre-order. To me it smacked of desperation, that they were giving over time in such a high profile show to what was essentially just an idea.
 
Baleoce

Baleoce

Member
girlfriendofagamer said:
Its my biggest beef with the game industry.

Honestly Death Stranding and NMH3 can fall off a cliff.

Don't show me shit I can't play in less than 13 months


NMS got burned for it, It was at E3 for like 2 years... so dumb. FF15 was a 10 year shitshow, showing off something way too damn early.


Its such a weak ass way to pad a release schedule and it takes away opportunities from developers who have software that is ready to be marketed in a timely manner, only to be overshadowed by a bunch of posters talking about NOTHING from watching some corny CG trailer.
Click to expand...

I have to agree.
 
N

Nzyme32

Member
- Announce your game too early - "fans" livid that the game is different on release, took so long, generating "hype" in a "bad" way, misleading etc etc

- Company makes decision not to announce game until they are much more concrete under the knowledge that their development process and projects will change wildly (see Valve) - "fans" livid that there is no announcement, complain about "hype" they created themselves or lack thereof, proclaim company will never make game again, all future responses and products are lies or irrelevant to any game projects

No winners with "fans" like that
 
O

opricnik

Banned
CertifiedFP said:
Sony?

Last I checked, I can't think of any notable announcements they've made this gen that are far off and at risk of being cancelled on a whim. Death Stranding is definitely years away, but I'd wager it will end up shipping mostly-intact.

If this is any thread, it's a Microsoft thread. Especially with their casualty-rate this gen.
Click to expand...
Deep down says hello
 
M

More_Badass

Member
Morfeo said:
Yep pretty much. Do we know anything about Shenmue 3? And its been almost two years already right.
Click to expand...
It was a Kickstarter. And a big-ass game with an insane legacy to live up to

Personally, I feel that, barring development hell and other production issues, we should want games to take as many years as possible/needed to release.
 
H

Herola

Neo Member
CertifiedFP said:
Sony?

Last I checked, I can't think of any notable announcements they've made this gen that are far off and at risk of being cancelled on a whim. Death Stranding is definitely years away, but I'd wager it will end up shipping mostly-intact.

If this is any thread, it's a Microsoft thread. Especially with their casualty-rate this gen.
Click to expand...

I think you may be forgetting Deep Down. The Last of Us Part 2 and Death Stranding are probably 3 years away at the least.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Atlus 2024 Aspirations Teases Unannounced Games by Shin Megami Tensei, Persona Developers
News
14
1K
Pejo replied
Persona, Star Ocean, And Final Fantasy Developers Discuss The Trend Of Remaking Classic RPGs
Game Dev 2
77
3K
MagiusNecros replied
Persona 3 Reload | Review Thread
Analysis Review Hype 2 3
106
7K
Ferdimage replied
Unicorn Overlord Producer Calls The Game a “Spiritual Successor to Dragon’s Crown” in a Way & It Was Originally Intended for PS Vita
News Game Dev
24
1K
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt replied
Persona 5 Tactica | Review Thread
Analysis Review 2
60
4K
cireza replied
Top Bottom