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shimon
Member
(10-16-2017, 10:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nibel

Their current marketing strategy is utter trash, it doesn't work

What strategy?

Originally Posted by Kyoufu

0 marketing. It's like, they're not even trying.

Thank you.
CrichtonKicks
Member
(10-16-2017, 10:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nirolak

They're pulling advertising from most locations because they don't have faith in the products. They feel the expanded market that doesn't know what the game are or when the games are releasing wouldn't actually want the products.

But why don't they have faith when the quality of the products is quite good?

It's not like Bethesda isn't aware how to market a game. Fallout 4 shipped out 12 million copies on day one, and they spent the entirety of last generation launching surprise outperform hits.

Other than the size of the ad buys they used the same tactic for FO4 they are still using- short announcement to release window with minimal footage or info released ahead of time.

That secrecy works with a giant IP like Fallout where the audience is already sold just based on the title's name. But smaller IPs need to be nurtured and they don't seem very interested in doing that.
pretty done
Member
(10-16-2017, 10:50 PM)
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People know their games drop price really fast. In this day and age where there's insane quality everywhere you look most people are trying to save and buy on sale as much as possible. PSN having flash sales nearly every week probably helps contribute to this thinking.

Also there's the fact that their games almost always are technical disasters, but I think that matters to only us turbo nerds. Passed on TEW2 because of no Pro support and a lackluster PC port.
blakep267
Member
(10-16-2017, 10:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Aters

People ask for single player games that are not "open world bloat". Nobody buys them when they actually come out. People ask why developers don't make single player focus game anymore.



There's nothing else on Switch because there is no need for it. Do you buy a Nintendo Switch with the intention of playing Doom on it?

Are you sure that "people" are asking for them and not just a vocal minority. I'm assuming most people would rather Bethesda only make skyrim and Fallout games annually
Kill3r7
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(10-16-2017, 10:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by BiggNife

Feels like a bit of self-fufilling prophecy. You're not going to know if a game ends up being a surprise hit or not if you don't give it a chance.

TEW2 is getting positive reviews and is a horror game being released in October. Sending it to die seems like a weird move.

The other way to look at it, is that they targeted a specific audience in theaters who showed a proclivity towards horror products/entertainment. They released the game in October which should be an easy month for a horror game or movie to perform well in. I am not sure a SP game of this magnitude warrants a massive ad campaign.
Jigorath
Banned
(10-16-2017, 10:53 PM)
The answer is they need more Skyrim.
paragonpro
Banned
(10-16-2017, 10:55 PM)
As someone who loves these types of single player games and supports them, it stings to know that im one of apparently not that many people and i have to face the reality that big single player games might see a rocky future. It could also be franchise fatigue. Horizon was a brand new sp game from sony and it apparently did really well.
Toxi
Banned
(10-16-2017, 10:55 PM)

Originally Posted by Kill3r7

The other way to look at it, is that they targeted a specific audience in theaters who showed a proclivity towards horror products/entertainment. They released the game in October which should be an easy month for a horror game or movie to perform well in. I am not sure a SP game of this magnitude warrants a massive ad campaign.

There's a pretty wide gulf between a "massive ad campaign" and the almost complete lack of marketing I've seen for the Evil Within 2.

At the end of the day, people aren't going to buy your shit if they don't know it exists.
Nirolak
Mrgrgr
(10-16-2017, 10:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by CrichtonKicks

But why don't they have faith when the quality of the products is quite good?



Other than the size of the ad buys they used the same tactic for FO4 they are still using- short announcement to release window with minimal footage or info released ahead of time.

That secrecy works with a giant IP like Fallout where the audience is already sold just based on the title's name. But smaller IPs need to be nurtured and they don't seem very interested in doing that.

It's not like there's zero awareness of these games.

Like let's go look at their YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Bethesd...rt=p&flow=grid

Dishonored 2 Live Action Trailer: 4.6 million views
Prey - Gameplay Trailer #2 - 4.5 million views

Looking at streamer partnerships, Markiplier has a 3.5 million view Let's Play video of Prey as well.

Way, way more people seem to be aware that these games exist than are actually buying them.
CrichtonKicks
Member
(10-16-2017, 10:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kill3r7

The other way to look at it, is that they targeted a specific audience in theaters who showed a proclivity towards horror products/entertainment. They released the game in October which should be an easy month for a horror game or movie to perform well in. I am not sure a SP game of this magnitude warrants a massive ad campaign.

I think a good comparison is the recent movie "Happy Death Day". It, too, is working that Friday the 13th mojo but Blumhouse went out of their way to market the hell out of the film and it did quite well at the box office as a result.

A Friday the 13th release date in October doesn't do any good if people don't know the game exists.

Originally Posted by Nirolak

It's not like there's zero awareness of these games.

Like let's go look at their YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Bethesd...rt=p&flow=grid

Dishonored 2 Live Action Trailer: 4.6 million views
Prey - Gameplay Trailer #2 - 4.5 million views

Looking at streamer partnerships, Markiplier has a 3.5 million view Let's Play video of Prey as well.

Way, way more people seem to be aware that these games exist than are actually buying them.

Right but you said they pull marketing if they don't have faith in them. Why wouldn't they have faith if they are quality follow-ups to prior successes?
nOoblet16
Member
(10-16-2017, 10:56 PM)
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They are one of the few big publishers that consistently push out great and unique games. They are also one of the few big publishers that basically send their game out to die by:

1) Releasing them at a bad date with other heavy hitters around
2) Releasing them at a date where they end up competing with their own product (2 weeks between TEW2 and Wolfenstein)
3) Doing pretty much no marketing


Wolfenstein and Doom are the only Bethesda published games not called Elder Scrolls or Fallout that are capable of selling despite the publisher pretty much sending their products out to die.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
(10-16-2017, 10:56 PM)
No amount of marketing short of completely deceiving customers would`ve netted them good sales

Those games are just far to niche, most immersive sims are bombing this generation, AAA horror games are not setting the chart on fire as well. That`s why Wolfenstein is the one they`re pushing right now.

Outside of sports, co-op/multiplayer games and RPGs there's not a lot of stuff selling well this generation.
LycanXIII
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(10-16-2017, 10:56 PM)
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If they're going to announce at E3, and then release before the next one, they need to have more marketing in the months in between, and show more than just a reveal trailer at E3. Half an hour was not enough for what they've released/are releasing this year.
TheExorzist
Member
(10-16-2017, 10:57 PM)
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Crazy times we live in when games of this caliber flop. And then people say the industry is horrible. Yeah....

As for the topic... Well, I did my part. Bought both Prey and EW2 at launch for full price. There ain't much more I can do really. It's a real shame. Prey was one of the best games I have EVER played and EW2 improves on the first one in every possible way. I'm not that far in yet as I'm taking my sweet time (chapter 4) but I am loving the shit out of it.

Really hope there are some background online sales going on that make things worth for Bethesda in the end. Otherwise it would be a real shame.

Juan29.zapata
Member
(10-16-2017, 10:58 PM)
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I feel someone or some group at Bethesda or Zenimax don't want these games to succeed so they can have an easy excuse to get into GaaS more prominently.

It's a shame, really.
Raven117
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(10-16-2017, 10:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by ProBusinessgamer

These threads are wrote with alot of confidence, yet they dont know the budget, internal goals, digital sells for most platforms, physical sells for most territories...and really just pass off opinion off as facts.

This. We always hear of all these "bombas" but really just how often do they sink studios? (It happens, but not as often as bombas do.)

That said, Prey and Dishonored 2 are fantastic games. Well crafted and complex. Its a shame they get overlooked often.
Nirolak
Mrgrgr
(10-16-2017, 10:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by CrichtonKicks

Right but you said they pull marketing if they don't have faith in them. Why wouldn't they have faith if they are quality follow-ups to prior successes?

Generally they do a lot of market research, pre-order checks, and interest level checks after the first couple marketing events for the game, set expectations, and then set the promotional budget as a percentage of sales expectations (usually in the 5-17% range depending on how hard they want to push something).

Presumably their sales expectations were just very low based on all the numbers they were seeing going into release, so they just went for high efficiency digital ads instead of throwing lots of money out they thought they would never make back.

Usually when you see this happen, it's because something significant has changed about the market in between the time a game was greenlit and when the game is finally coming out that has caused consumers to stop showing interest and/or for a publisher to totally lose faith in a title, and they mainly finish it because they lose less money that way and keep their team happier and more skilled by finishing products.
CrichtonKicks
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(10-16-2017, 10:59 PM)
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I will say that TEW 2 feels relatively moderately budgeted. Not to its detriment but it feels closer to AA than AAA in terms of production value. If the suppositions that Tango is making a second game simultaneously are true then its possible that Bethesda isn't expecting huge numbers to call it a success.

Originally Posted by Nirolak

Generally they do a lot of market research, pre-order checks, and interest level checks after the first couple marketing events for the game, set expectations, and then set the promotional budget as a percentage of sales expectations (usually in the 5-17% range depending on how hard they want to push something).

Presumably their sales expectations were just very low based on all the numbers they were seeing going into release, so they just went for high efficiency digital ads instead of throwing lots of money out they thought they would never make back.


Interesting- I would think that approach wouldn't work well when using a model predicated on short announcement to release windows. Hard to build up a large amount of awareness when a game is only announced a few months ago and they were stingy on footage for a good portion even after that.
Aters
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(10-16-2017, 10:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by blakep267

Are you sure that "people" are asking for them and not just a vocal minority. I'm assuming most people would rather Bethesda only make skyrim and Fallout games annually

I agree. Single player fans always blame developers for not catering to their taste, yet when a single player game comes out, they won't buy it unless it's 50% off.
Nzyme32
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(10-16-2017, 10:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Human Trashcan

It's almost like their policy of only sending games to streamers and not reviewers and not doing any other marketing is not working out for them

Prey was fucking brilliant btw and this makes me sad

This depends. If the money saved on zero marketing and the eventual long term sales volume is good enough - it could very well be justifiable
JetSetRadio
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:01 PM)
Beth20$da.
black070
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:02 PM)
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The worst part is they are truly great games.
prudislav
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:03 PM)
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seems like the one and only Denuvo wasnt much of a saviour in the end ... but with Bethesda zero to none maketing there was not much to saveanyay
BeeDog
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(10-16-2017, 11:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by CrichtonKicks

I will say that TEW 2 feels relatively moderately budgeted. Not to its detriment but it feels closer to AA than AAA in terms of production value. If the suppositions that Tango is making a second game simultaneously are true then its possible that Bethesda isn't expecting huge numbers to call it a success.

To be honest, what makes you say that? Poor main character animations aside, I'd say everything in the game, from cutscene direction to art variety and monster design/animation screams high budget. It's a huuuuuge step up from the first game.
NullPointer
#INTESTINAL
(10-16-2017, 11:03 PM)
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Is this a case of overly-optimistic expectations? Or is the market for these games objectively shrinking?
Broadbandito
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(10-16-2017, 11:04 PM)
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Dishonored 2 Owners: 935,561 Ī 28,694
Prey Owners: 465,475 Ī 20,250
Dishonored: Death of the Outsider Owners: 82,766 Ī 8,542
The Evil Within 2 Owners: 54,640 Ī 6,940

These numbers would include all purchases made from any third party site, bethesda's digital store or steam. (All are Steam DRM afaik)

Would be really interesting in seeing console numbers and total sales vs Originals.

I think Wolfenstein will be fine since I see marketing for it all over the place
Floody
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:05 PM)
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I do think the no reviews before release is really biting them on the arse. I'm constantly surprised when I discover their games or out or nearly out and at that point I'll usually just wait for it to be on sale.
Their marketing is just nonexistent too, if people like me who frequents game news sites and forums doesn't know their games have released, I imagine more casual consumers don't even know they exist to begin with. Early reviews are a great way of letting the people who might actually buy it day 1 know it's coming real soon and to be ready. Great early reviews can make up for crappy marketing too.

Saying that, Wolfenstein seems to have great marketing, but they decided to release it on the same day as a 3D Mario and Assassin's Creed which I don't think ends well for Wolfenstein. Though possible they expect good legs like The New Order.
Guerrillas in the Mist
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(10-16-2017, 11:05 PM)
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Their anti-review copy stance has quite literally only hurt them in the last 18 months. It's as if they're afraid they're going to have to sneak out a turd at some point, and are willing to damage the sales of 4, likely 5 excellent games to do so.

That reminds me, I need to replay Prey with a completely different build...
Kill3r7
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(10-16-2017, 11:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Toxi

There's a pretty wide gulf between a "massive ad campaign" and the almost complete lack of marketing I've seen for the Evil Within 2.

At the end of the day, people aren't going to buy your shit if they don't know it exists.

Why arenít people buying Metroid Samus Returns? Is it because of lack of advertising exposure? Do you think Destiny 2, FIFA or Watchdogs 2 lacked marketing?

It is not always about marketing. Sometimes you are catering to a smaller audience.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
(10-16-2017, 11:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by HeisenbergWW62

Please be excited for them to shift to the GaaS model

Maybe people will start buying their single player games then.

At the moment, they're laying out quality single player stuff and people are largely ignoring it.

Maybe if they add MTXs people will make it the next hot button conversation piece and get the weird out there.
JWiLL
Banned
(10-16-2017, 11:08 PM)
It would help on the PC/Steam side if their games had stronger ports...

Many have improved post launch, but they take awhile and the damage is already done (Dishonored 2).

Thankfully the upcoming Wolfenstein is on idtech 6 which we know is a stellar performer from last year's DOOM. They can't possibly fuck that one up.

(I'm aware that Bethesda is only a publisher on these, but there's a notable trend).
Toxi
Banned
(10-16-2017, 11:08 PM)

Originally Posted by Kill3r7

Why arenít people buying Metroid Samiís Returns? Is it because of lack of advertising exposure? Do you think Destiny 2, FIFA or Watchdogs 2 lacked marketing?

It is not always about marketing. Sometimes you are catering to a smaller audience.

Are those supposed to be examples of games that sold poorly?
CrichtonKicks
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(10-16-2017, 11:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by BeeDog

To be honest, what makes you say that? Poor main character animations aside, I'd say everything in the game, from cutscene direction to art variety and monster design/animation screams high budget. It's a huuuuuge step up from the first game.

Little things- inconsistent visual quality, dodgy animations, clipping errors. Just polish stuff. Hell Bethesda didn't even spring for an "all-star" voice cast. Which is fine because I think they are way too reliant on getting film and TV actors instead of dedicated voice actors but its still rather unlike them. Bethesda seems to love cramming B and C List actors into their games.

I actually think the first game was more "state of the art" compared to its contemporaries at the time.

Originally Posted by Floody

I do think the no reviews before release is really biting them on the arse.

FWIW, they changed it with TEW 2. Reviewers got code 3 days early and they released the embargo day before release. Not sure if that will be policy going forward or if it was a hail mary to try to salvage TEW 2. But even then 3 days isn't much for a game that is 15+ hours where you want to encourage reviewers to explore the side content.

Anyone know if Wolfentstein will be going out to reviewers early?
BanjoLayleeYookaKazooie
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:09 PM)
If someone could explain to me why of all 365 days this year Wolfenstein 2 is releasing on the 27th October I'd appreciate it.

I mean I sorta got the 'logic' of EA releasing Titanfall 2 and Battlefield 1 last year when they did but the placement of this game amongst all their other confuses me greatly, as well as the 2 other massive games releasing on that day.
KillLaCam
Banned
(10-16-2017, 11:10 PM)
They chose this path
Kill3r7
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(10-16-2017, 11:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Toxi

Are those supposed to be examples of games that sold poorly?

They were all down compared to previous releases.
Shifty1897
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(10-16-2017, 11:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by dex3108

As a person who loves SP only games an immersive sims it is hard to watch those games flop one by one. And i think that Bethesda is big cause of that. Their marketing is almost non-existent and their no review codes policy is hurting their games and developers really bad. And they are keep doing that over and over again. I don't want to see those game franchises die but is there anything that we could do? Is there a future for those kind of games in todays GaaS oriented market?

Bethesda thinks they're above generally accepted practices for video game publishers.

EDIT: Everyone saying Wolfenstein 2 is going to hit, but it's coming out the same day as two other huge AAA franchises that (I believe) are more popular and will review better than Wolfenstein.
BoosterDuck
Banned
(10-16-2017, 11:12 PM)

Originally Posted by BanjoLayleeYookaKazooie

If someone could explain to me why of all 365 days this year Wolfenstein 2 is releasing on the 27th October I'd appreciate it.

I mean I sorta got the 'logic' of EA releasing Titanfall 2 and Battlefield 1 last year when they did but the placement of this game amongst all their other confuses me greatly, as well as the 2 other massive games releasing on that day.

Battlefront 2, Call of Duty and Asscreed Origins
AmyS
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:13 PM)
And TES VI is a loooong ways off. Fall 2021 at the soonest.
Floody
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(10-16-2017, 11:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by Toxi

Are those supposed to be examples of games that sold poorly?

Selling worse than literally some of the best selling games of the generation = failure to some.
People forget all (except Watch_Dogs 2 maybe? I don't know) sold a million+ copies in a few days.
Shredderi
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(10-16-2017, 11:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by Juan29.zapata

I feel someone or some group at Bethesda or Zenimax don't want these games to succeed so they can have an easy excuse to get into GaaS more prominently.

It's a shame, really.

This is the feel I get. How come other publishers can get their stuff selling decently but bethesda for the life of them can't? It's gotta be that they're not even trying because they expect the games to bomb anyway or that they really want to go all in on GAAS. After all these very good quality SP games I kinda dread the future of Bethesda published games.
Hellwarden
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(10-16-2017, 11:13 PM)
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I don't feel particularly sorry for them.

Try to manipulate early reviews and you deserve to fail.
MaLDo
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(10-16-2017, 11:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nirolak

It's not like there's zero awareness of these games.

Like let's go look at their YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Bethesd...rt=p&flow=grid

Dishonored 2 Live Action Trailer: 4.6 million views
Prey - Gameplay Trailer #2 - 4.5 million views

Looking at streamer partnerships, Markiplier has a 3.5 million view Let's Play video of Prey as well.

Way, way more people seem to be aware that these games exist than are actually buying them.

Bugs and performance problems are very important for a lot of people. And they seem to create incredible games but then rush a few months before being totally cooked with really big performance problems.
dottme
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(10-16-2017, 11:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by Deadly Cyclone

Wolfenstein marketing is literally perfect right now. Maybe they are turning it around?

Except knowing that you are going to kick some Nazi, I havenít seen any preview or review of the game.
If this is perfect marketing for you, you donít need a lot to convince you to buy a game.
BanjoLayleeYookaKazooie
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:16 PM)

Originally Posted by BoosterDuck

Battlefront 2, Call of Duty and Asscreed Origins

But it's releasing on the exact same day as one of those as well as one other massive game? And only a week before one of the others which is *the* biggest game of the year?
Traumnovelle
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(10-16-2017, 11:16 PM)
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I really hope Arkane and Tango keep on trucking.
Gator86
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(10-16-2017, 11:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by CrichtonKicks

But they already successfully launched Dishonored once. The success of that title in concert with Human Revolution is one of the reasons it seemed like the genre wasn't dead for a time.

Basically, they successfully launch a brand new IP from a little known developer, with a unique art style well outside of mainstream aesthetics, with an emphasis on player choice over the cinematic handholding that was all the range of that time. That's incredible. *That* should have been the hard part, not following up that success. Especially when the sequel is as good as Dishonored 2 turned out to be.

These launched what is basically a lifetime ago, unfortunately.

Originally Posted by Obliterator

It's not just marketing, though that is indeed a problem that is making things worse.

Thing is the market is just moving away from linear single player only 10-20 hour long games. Unless everything is executed perfectly it's hard to match sales those types of games used to get.

Bethesda will have to change strategy and start developing different types of games (online multiplayer, open world, co-op, etc.)

The unpleasant truth - the market those games launched in is basically dead. It doesn't matter how good they are unless they're damn near flawless in a mass market sort of way.

Originally Posted by Marcel

Here is Arkane's future in case yall forgot. From a Nirolak thread in July.



http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...96&postcount=1

The inevitable future and more proof we're stuck in the worst timeline.
daveo42
Banned
(10-16-2017, 11:17 PM)
If Machine Games has anything to say about it (and if TNC sells well), then we'll be getting a 3rd new Wolfenstein game in a few years.
NullPointer
#INTESTINAL
(10-16-2017, 11:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Gator86

The inevitable future and more proof we're stuck in the worst timeline.

High Chaos feels about right.
GeoramA
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(10-16-2017, 11:19 PM)
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Fallout: New Orleans and TES VI need to reveal themselves...

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