• Register
  • TOS
  • Privacy
  • @NeoGAF
  • Like

commissar
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:20 PM)
commissar's Avatar
Iíve bought every Dishonored, Prey, all the Wolfensteins. I wanted SP content for Doom DLC though, so I only got the regular game. I also bought Quake Champions, though that remains a work in progress.

Excepting the hardware $ís of the Switch, Bethesda has probably had over half my gaming budget

I also got Evil Within on a steam sale but much like the Elder Scrolls and Fallout, not really for me.
Wildo09
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:20 PM)
Wildo09's Avatar
Games so good, without free to play nonsense and they still fail. Feels bad man :(
Floody
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:21 PM)
Floody's Avatar

Originally Posted by CrichtonKicks

FWIW, they changed it with TEW 2. Reviewers got code 3 days early and they released the embargo day before release. Not sure if that will be policy going forward or if it was a hail mary to try to salvage TEW 2. But even then 3 days isn't much for a game that is 15+ hours where you want to encourage reviewers to explore the side content.

Oh, didn't know that, thanks.
But yeah, I think that's almost as bad, as it could have a negative effect were reviewers feel rushed to get their review out as fast as possible, which could negatively impact their experience.
inky
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:21 PM)
inky's Avatar
When's Skyrim 2? :3
FiveSide
Banned
(10-16-2017, 11:21 PM)

Originally Posted by Nibel

Their current marketing strategy is utter trash, it doesn't work

This is the answer, and it's so frustrating because their asinine policy screwed over 3 games that ranged from "very good" (Evil Within 2) to "literally a modern classic" (Prey).

Bethesda has had the best single-player output of this console generation, and Wolf 2 is looking like it'll add to that as well.
burgerdog
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:22 PM)
burgerdog's Avatar
Seeing this sucks because at least two of those games are just goty material.

Dishonored 2 and Prey

Death of the Outsider was a really good budget release as well and the pc version runs like a dream this time around.

The Evil Within 2 is going to be hit and miss again. Big hit for me, I'm having a ton of fun with it, I just wish 60fps wasn't so finicky on pc.
kittoo
Cretinously credulous
(10-16-2017, 11:23 PM)
kittoo's Avatar
As a single-player games person and someone who really doesnt like GAAS model, this is very sad. I didnt like Dishonored 2 much, but liked Prey a lot and am loving Evil within 2.
Fury451
Banned
(10-16-2017, 11:23 PM)

Originally Posted by Nibel

Their current marketing strategy is utter trash, it doesn't work

This is honestly their main problem, alongside embargo things. They've released some stellar games in the past year and a half, and they only have themselves to blame for any lackluster sales or expectations. The sad part is the way the numbers get crunched, it's the studios that will take the fall for it.
Alienfan
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:23 PM)
Alienfan's Avatar
Prey bombed for sure, but I'm not sure about Dishonored 2. It obviously didn't do as well as the first, but a certain chart website (I know they're not super reliable, but they're generally an okay indication) has the game's physical copies tracking close to 3 million and steam has the game at 900,000. Evil Within 2 might see a similar trend in sales overtime
Equanimity
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:23 PM)
Equanimity's Avatar

Originally Posted by Truant

All we know is that they performed under expectation, but it all points to Bethesda's strategy of huge tentpole 10+ million selling titles every 3 years + smaller more experimental games that make a small profit. Dishonored actually turned out to be a huge success, so their gamble sometimes pays off.

Thanks for the info :)

I hope The Evil Within 2 turns in some profit by the end of this year.
NullPointer
#INTESTINAL
(10-16-2017, 11:24 PM)
NullPointer's Avatar
Just want to ask this one more time:

Originally Posted by NullPointer

Is this a case of overly-optimistic expectations? Or is the market for these games objectively shrinking?

Because we've seen publisher expectations that were wildly out of whack before, and I'm not sure of what facts are behind the premise of this thread. What objective figures are being worked off of here? Are Dishonored 2 sales being compared to Dishonored 1? What is the baseline of success for these games?
Blood Diamonds
Banned
(10-16-2017, 11:24 PM)
I mean the marketing for those games was just not there. Also, according to your list all three of them had performance issues. TBH this seems like it's Bethesda's fault more than anything.
IamDodongo
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:27 PM)
IamDodongo's Avatar
If it weren't for Jawmuncher and Dusk Golem, I wouldn't have known the game was so near release.

Bethesda definitely dropped the ball somewhere
FiveSide
Banned
(10-16-2017, 11:27 PM)

Originally Posted by NullPointer

Is this a case of overly-optimistic expectations? Or is the market for these games objectively shrinking?

Neither, this is a case study in how withholding the publicity of good reviews can tank commercial performance of games that don't have big brand names and massive marketing campaigns behind them.

I wouldn't extend the consequences of Bethesda's ridiculous policies into larger generalizations about the state of AAA single-player gaming.
CrichtonKicks
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:28 PM)
CrichtonKicks's Avatar

Originally Posted by NullPointer

Because we've seen publisher expectations that were wildly out of whack before, and I'm not sure of what facts are behind the premise of this thread. What objective figures are being worked off of here? Are Dishonored 2 sales being compared to Dishonored 1? What is the baseline of success for these games?

That's a good point. Zenimax is not a public company so we don't know what their internal expectations are. It's not impossible that they don't have the same "every title must sell 10 million copies" that Ubi, EA, etc have.

Maybe they have reasonable budgets and expectations? That would be a pleasant surprise.
Foxy the Fox
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:30 PM)
Foxy the Fox's Avatar
Bethesda games quickly drop in price like a rock so I usually buy them after some months.

Their only game that I will buy at release is Doom for Switch.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:30 PM)
ArkhamFantasy's Avatar

Originally Posted by kittoo

As a single-player games person and someone who really doesnt like GAAS model, this is very sad. I didnt like Dishonored 2 much, but liked Prey a lot and am loving Evil within 2.

It's very concerning to say the least. There have been single player games that have done well this year but they're all RPGs that you get 40+ hours out of.

I dont know if the AAA 10-15 hour linear games are viable anymore, outside of Resident Evil.
Axial
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:30 PM)
Axial's Avatar
As a fan of immersive sims I find it quite disappointing that my favourite Bethesda games like Dishonored or Prey are the ones that sell the worst :(
GoingToDelete
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:30 PM)
GoingToDelete's Avatar
Prey is one of my favorite games of the last few years. It sucks it didnt do well. I dont like Bethesda as a publisheras they are scummy.
Green Yoshi
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:31 PM)
Green Yoshi's Avatar

Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki

Prey was a truly amazing game and I'm sad a lot of people didn't play it.

I played the demo on PS4 and it felt like a bad port of a PC game.
Jarate
Banned
(10-16-2017, 11:33 PM)
Jarate's Avatar
They probably save a ludicrous amount on only advertising using streamers. A lot of game devs budget is spent on advertising, so maybe their strategy is working in the sense that these games might still be profitable, but may not put up Ubisoft numbers.

We dont know the financials to make these statements though.
Surfside
Banned
(10-16-2017, 11:33 PM)

Originally Posted by NullPointer

Just want to ask this one more time:



Because we've seen publisher expectations that were wildly out of whack before, and I'm not sure of what facts are behind the premise of this thread. What objective figures are being worked off of here? Are Dishonored 2 sales being compared to Dishonored 1? What is the baseline of success for these games?

Well Arcane's creative director and founder was let go. We can't know for sure if it was because of missed sales expectations, but it's very likely imo.
dragonflys545
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:35 PM)
dragonflys545's Avatar
Wolfenstein 2 is gonna sell pretty bad as well. I don't know why, but I just don't see it selling well at $60.
Garrett Hawke
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:35 PM)
Garrett Hawke's Avatar

Originally Posted by Human Trashcan

It's almost like their policy of only sending games to streamers and not reviewers and not doing any other marketing is not working out for them

Prey was fucking brilliant btw and this makes me sad

Yup. Terrible decision, itís working out poorly for them. If the games werenít so fucking good I would say itís well deserved for trying to make consumers less informed, but it really is doing them a disservice.
Mr. Tibbs
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:36 PM)
Mr. Tibbs's Avatar

Originally Posted by Surfside

Well Arcane's creative director and founder was let go. We can't know for sure if it was because of missed sales expectations, but it's very likely imo.

I doubt he was let go. More likely he was just legitimately exhausted from being a project director for 18 years. I would expect when he left, however, that Zenimax made him sign a non-compete, so I doubt we'll see anything big from him games-wise besides consulting for a while.
Green Yoshi
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:37 PM)
Green Yoshi's Avatar

Originally Posted by HeisenbergWW62

Please be excited for them to shift to the GaaS model

Prepare for the next Battleborn, folks. ;-)

Perhaps it would help to sell SP-only games for 49$ instead of 69$.
NullPointer
#INTESTINAL
(10-16-2017, 11:37 PM)
NullPointer's Avatar

Originally Posted by Jarate

They probably save a ludicrous amount on only advertising using streamers.

Don't know if this counts but I know videos like these have helped sell a few copies among the people I know.

Even though none of us plays anything like this dude.
henhowc
(10-16-2017, 11:37 PM)
henhowc's Avatar
Out of curiosity do we know for sure that they actually underperforming for these titles? Like do we know about budget vs sales?
Fishook
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:42 PM)
People don't want to pay full price for shortish single player focused games these days, the new South Park will suffer the same fate

I have no interest with Evil Within, but I would of instantly picked it up if it was my cup of tea as I perfer single player focused games. Just look at the disappointing sales of some of shorter CRPG's.

You Tube and streaming has effected these type of games, as kids and other people would rather watch people play story focused games. I have never seen the attraction, but that's just me.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:43 PM)
CarbonatedFalcon's Avatar
Despite needing a large budget to make a good immersive sim game, I think the genre is dead at the $60 price point.

Itís difficulty to justify paying that much for a pure single player 15-30 hour game in this day and age, no matter the graphical fidelity or quality.

The game market in general is oversaturated, and many other games with multiplayer components or focus often provide a better value in terms of hours per dollar.

Thatís not to say these are bad games, or that they shouldnít be made (likely subsidized by other successes), but why pay full price for an immersive sim when I know I can get it anywhere from a few months to a year down the line at a greatly discounted price and enjoy it all the same? Thereís no pressing need to play these near launch, when I have a backlog in the double digits at least, let alone the time any multiplayer games take up.
Kanann
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:44 PM)
Kanann's Avatar
Good/decent games without loot boxes and some bullshit perform these bad physically hurt me.
benzopil
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:45 PM)
benzopil's Avatar
I don't think anybody outside of GAF and gaming websites knows that these games exist. Marketing has been abysmal.
Skeeter49
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:45 PM)
Skeeter49's Avatar
Wolfenstein will save them.
CrichtonKicks
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:45 PM)
CrichtonKicks's Avatar

Originally Posted by Surfside

Well Arcane's creative director and founder was let go. We can't know for sure if it was because of missed sales expectations, but it's very likely imo.

What's yours source that he was let go versus voluntarily quitting?
ScientificPizza
Banned
(10-16-2017, 11:46 PM)

Originally Posted by Human Trashcan

It's almost like their policy of only sending games to streamers and not reviewers and not doing any other marketing is not working out for them

Prey was fucking brilliant btw and this makes me sad

Yeah it seems to have really come back to bite them. Hopefully they backpedal soon. It literally hasnít benefitted them in any way
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
(10-16-2017, 11:46 PM)
SargerusBR's Avatar

Originally Posted by Deadly Cyclone

Wolfenstein marketing is literally perfect right now. Maybe they are turning it around?

Is more like they are focusing all marketing efforts in one major product instead of supporting all their products.
thumb
Banned
(10-16-2017, 11:46 PM)

Originally Posted by FiveSide

Neither, this is a case study in how withholding the publicity of good reviews can tank commercial performance of games that don't have big brand names and massive marketing campaigns behind them.

I wouldn't extend the consequences of Bethesda's ridiculous policies into larger generalizations about the state of AAA single-player gaming.

It seems like lots of AAA games are releasing to reduced sales. I'm not sure that this says as much about Bethesda as it does about the larger market, and gamers starting to spend more time in long-running GaaS titles.
Surfside
Banned
(10-16-2017, 11:47 PM)

Originally Posted by CrichtonKicks

What's yours source that he was let go versus voluntarily quitting?

It's just speculation. But i believe this, because it was so shortly after the games release.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
(10-16-2017, 11:50 PM)
Fantastapotamus's Avatar
It's depressing.
Those are 3 great, singleplayer games with great level design and no open world BS crammed in. Prey's performance is heart breaking cause that game is simply amazing.

On the other hand Shadow of War, despite being another checkbox open world game with a terrible story and the whole lootbox controversy seems to sell pretty great, confirming my suspicion that everybody except for me has a terrible taste in games.
TheDeftone
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:50 PM)
Does anybody know how big/small the development budgets for these games (Evil Within, Dishonored, Prey) were?
Ooccoo
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:55 PM)
Ooccoo's Avatar

Originally Posted by Fantastapotamus

It's depressing.
Those are 3 great, singleplayer games with great level design and no open world BS crammed in. Prey's performance is heart breaking cause that game is simply amazing.

On the other hand Shadow of War, despite being another checkbox open world game with a terrible story and the whole lootbox controversy seems to sell pretty great, confirming my suspicion that everybody except for me has a terrible taste in games.

TEW2 has open world BS sorry
gocubs
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:56 PM)
gocubs's Avatar
Whats with Bethesdas poor marketing strategy? They ran a commercial for Fallout 4 on several channels before that launched and here we are over a week out from Wolfenstine launching and not one commercial!?
CrichtonKicks
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:57 PM)
CrichtonKicks's Avatar

Originally Posted by Surfside

It's just speculation. But i believe this, because it was so shortly after the games release.

That's actually a pretty typical time to leave- right when a project wraps up. In the case of Arkane they just had two major products wrap up within six months of each other which means that whatever follows is probably still in pre-production. That's honestly the best time to handle a transition like that.

It's likely that Raphael indicated to Bethesda months in advance of Prey's release that he was looking to step down but they decided to wait until several weeks after the project to announce his departure to avoid negatively impacting the news of the game at release.
SG-17
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:57 PM)
SG-17's Avatar

Originally Posted by gocubs

Whats with Bethesdas poor marketing strategy? They ran a commercial for Fallout 4 on several channels before that launched and here we are over a week out from Wolfenstine launching and not one commercial!?

Wolfenstein at least has marketing that makes people talk.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
(10-16-2017, 11:57 PM)
Fantastapotamus's Avatar

Originally Posted by Ooccoo

TEW2 has open world BS sorry

That's why I said 3 games and not 4 ;)
Hitokiri03
Member
(10-16-2017, 11:58 PM)
Hitokiri03's Avatar
Well... releasing Dishonored 2 during November wasn't a very wise idea.

And the Prey demo was awful, I almost had a heart attack when the first mimic showed up because the way the sound ramp up I deleted almost instantaneously, then I played the trial this weekend and loved.
Sotha_Sil
Member
(10-17-2017, 12:00 AM)
Sotha_Sil's Avatar

Originally Posted by CarbonatedFalcon

Despite needing a large budget to make a good immersive sim game, I think the genre is dead at the $60 price point.

Itís difficulty to justify paying that much for a pure single player 15-30 hour game in this day and age, no matter the graphical fidelity or quality.

The game market in general is oversaturated, and many other games with multiplayer components or focus often provide a better value in terms of hours per dollar.

Thatís not to say these are bad games, or that they shouldnít be made (likely subsidized by other successes), but why pay full price for an immersive sim when I know I can get it anywhere from a few months to a year down the line at a greatly discounted price and enjoy it all the same? Thereís no pressing need to play these near launch, when I have a backlog in the double digits at least, let alone the time any multiplayer games take up.

You could apply that logic to any game, but the market is NOT over saturated with the games Bethesda makes. No one else makes immersive sims. Only one other team makes survival horror any more. I can't think of another developer who makes SP-focused FPS games. No one else makes open-world games that are first person (they all do 3rd person, which is why BGS' worlds still feel very different to me).

Ultimately, they're going their own path, and they seem to be doing well enough with it. They're pumping out games at an impressive rate given their relatively small size and number of recently-formed studios. As a few other posters have noted, we can't definitively speak to their success without knowing their financials. One thing they might need to do is participate in Sony/MS/Nintendo press conferences from here on out. Since they switched to doing their own E3 shows, the hype for their games has sadly gone down. Those are big, easy events to showcase their games to a wide audience. Save the new reveals for BE3, put alternate trailers for previously-announced games at Sony/MS/Nintendo.
Speely
Banned
(10-17-2017, 12:00 AM)
Something tells me they will be ok.
Ironballs
Member
(10-17-2017, 12:02 AM)
Definitely buying Wolf 2 at launch.
Aters
Member
(10-17-2017, 12:03 AM)
Aters's Avatar

Originally Posted by ArkhamFantasy

It's very concerning to say the least. There have been single player games that have done well this year but they're all RPGs that you get 40+ hours out of.

I dont know if the AAA 10-15 hour linear games are viable anymore, outside of Resident Evil.

Going by RE7, it seems even RE can't justify $60 price tag when it's 10-15 hour long without multiplayer.

Thread Tools