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Kron
Banned
(02-10-2010, 05:29 PM)
First of all Border Down is a much better game than Gradius 5, More people should check it out.

And here's the edits to the DC list:

Dreamcast:

Japan releases:
+Bakuretsu Muteki Bangaioh
Border Down
Chaos Field
+Gigawing
+Gigawing 2
Ikaruga
+Karous
+Mars Matrix
Psyvariar 2
Radirgy
+Rainbow Cotton
Shikigami No Shiro 2
+Triggerheart Exelica
+Trizeal
+Twinkle Star Sprites
Under Defeat
Zero Gunner 2

Independant:
DUX
Last Hope
Last Hope Pink Bullets
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
(02-10-2010, 05:35 PM)
A Human Becoming's Avatar
If Sin & Punishment counts, doesn't any on-rails shooter as well?
jibblypop
Banned
(02-10-2010, 05:51 PM)

Originally Posted by fatty

Wartech (Senko No Ronde)

I have never heard of this one.. is it worth picking up?

I just watched a video on youtube and it looks like you can adjust the angle that your ship is facing.. maybe it's good?
SmokyDave
Banned
(02-10-2010, 05:55 PM)
SmokyDave's Avatar
Excellent thread. I look forward to posting news about XBLA / PSN remakes of Under Defeat and Mars Matrix as soon as I gather the scratch to fund them.
Tain
Member
(02-10-2010, 05:56 PM)
Tain's Avatar
Senko no Ronde is a good fighting game heavily inspired by Virtual On. It's top down with a lot of bullets, but it's no shooter.
A Black Falcon
Member
(02-10-2010, 11:06 PM)
A Black Falcon's Avatar
First -- there was one shmup on the Xbox, if you're listing them -- Xyanide. The game was released on the Xbox in the US only. Planned GBA, N-Gage, and cellphone ports were all cancelled. A PC port, Xyanide Resurrection, was released later, but only in Europe. It was on the PS2 and PSP also, but in Japan and Europe only. So:

Xyanide - Xbox, US only
Xyanide Resurrection - PC, Europe only
Xyanide Resurrection - PS2, PSP - Europe and Japan only

Also, if you're listing PS1 games, or anything for older systems, just copy the lists from shmups.com... a few you're missing (US release) for instance are Shooter: Starfighter Sanvein and Shooter: Space Shot.

Also, you mess up your Strikers 1945 PSX listings. Strikers 1945 in the US is actually Strikers 1945 II. Agetec decided to drop the "II" for some reason, perhaps because the first one hadn't come out in the US? Anyway, both came out on PSX and Saturn in Japan, but only the second one in the US, so the one that should be in the Japanese releases section is Strikers 1945, not Strikers 1945 II, and "Strikers 1945" in the US listing should be noted to actually be Strikers 1945 II.

Kron - Bangaioh, Giga Wing 1 and 2, and Mars Matrix are already listed in the DC US Releases section. Your other additions are actually new though.

Originally Posted by fatty

Taito Legends 2 (contains Darius Gaiden, Front Line, Gekirindan, Grid Seeker: Operation Storm Hammer, Gun Frontier, Insector X, Kiki Kai Kai, Majestic Twelve: The Space Invaders Part IV, Metal Black, Rayforce*, Space Invaders '95: The Attack of the Lunar Loopies, Space Invaders DX and Wild Western) *Xbox Exclusive

Whoops... forgot a very important note here. Taito Legends 2 for the Xbox was NOT released in the US. It was Europe only. However, the disc is region-free and will run fine in a US Xbox, so I wouldn't remove it from the list I think, just add a note or something.

Also the PC version is identical to the Xbox version, so RayForce isn't really Xbox exclusive, it's also in the PC version, which did get a US release.

Also, you don't list the US Xbox version of Taito Legends 1, which actually does exist. The titles included are the same as the PS2 version.

(The US did get all of those other collections on the platforms I listed, though.)

Another note is that Capcom Classics Collection 1 (PS2/Xbox) also includes Gun.Smoke, which should definitely be on this list I think.


Also, Japan got completely different Taito collections from the US and Europe. They were called Taito Memories, and there were four of them, Taito Memories Joukan, Taito Memories Gekan, Taito Memories II Joukan, and Taito Memories II Gekan. Each of the four games has 25 games in it, adding up to 100 total titles -- quite a few more than the 72 the US/EU got between its two collections (29 in Taito Legends 1, 35 in both versions of Taito Legends 2, 8 exclusive to one platform or the other).

In other cases the US actually was better off, though -- for instance Tecmo Classic Arcade (Xbox exclusive in the US and Europe) is actually an upgraded port of Tecmo's Japanese PS2 collection "Tecmo Hit Parade", which only had seven games in it. The Xbox version added four more titles, Strato Fighter, Bomb Jack, Tecmo Bowl, and Rygar. And the US version was still considered a pretty thin package compared to things like Taito's or Midway's collections... the collection did come out in Japan on the Xbox too as Tecmo Classic Arcade, probably with the same titles, but the US release was first on that platform.

The reason that some of the games are PS2 only is because emulation couldn't run those games fast enough on the PS2, so Taito actually reprogrammed them for the system for their collection. They didn't make an Xbox version in Japan, though, so when Empire Interactive bought the US/EU Taito collection rights and started putting together the Taito Legends collections, a few titles had to be PS2-only. I think that the Xbox exclusives were added to compensate for that... they added four titles to make up for the four that couldn't be included. The PS2 exclusives are bigger names with the exception of RayForce, though, with the second best known Xbox exclusive probably being Cadash... (the other three Xbox exclusives are not shmups, only RayForce is, while all four PS2 exclusives are shmups.)

Finally, I didn't try to list PSP collections... maybe I should, they often seem to differ slightly from the PS2/Xbox/GC versions -- Taito Legends Power-Up (Space Invaders, Space Invaders Part II, Balloon Bomber, Phoenix, Return of the Invaders, Kiki Kai Kai), Midway Arcade Treasures: Extended Play (Sinistar, Defender, Xybots if it counts)...


Anyway, I think the problem with counting run & gun games as "shmups" is that you just start to get too far into genre creep... that is, it becomes really hard to define what is and what isn't a shmup if you don't use strict rules. If you don't use strict rules, almost any game with a gun could end up being called a "shmup"...

Like, what next? Do we add Metal Slug games? Vectorman? Space Dungeon? Wizard of Wor? Raimais? Xenophobe? Rogue Squadron? FPSes? I could come up with justifications for all of those, and probably more... which is why shmups.com sticks to such a specific definition of the genre. There are just so many games involving shooting things that if you're not specific your list gets too broad and vague.

Also, should games that are mostly something else but have shmup parts in them count? Like the Metal Slug games, they're mostly run & gun, but many of them also have forced-scrolling parts...

I mean, I do support having, in addition to traditional forced-scrolling shmups, non-forced-scrolling "shmups" like In the Hunt, and, with notes to their genre listed, arena shooters like Smash TV and Geometry Wars and rail shooters like Star Fox and Sin & Punishment. Those I think should either be on the list or be in separate, similar lists. But run & guns seem a bit more different to me somehow, and all those other games that have some similarities (such as those games I just listed in the previous paragraph)... you have to draw a line somewhere. Metal Slug perhaps should go on, but the rest of those I'd probably leave out.
CaseyTappy
Member
(02-11-2010, 12:03 AM)
CaseyTappy's Avatar
Missed PS1 Jap releases:

3d shooting tsukuru
70’s Robot Anime Geppy-X
Air Grave
Cotton 100%
Dezaemon Kids
Dezaemon Plus
Galaga: Destination Earth
Image Fight/X-Multiply
Kaitei Daisensou
Meta-Ph-List Gamma X 2297
Raiden ( not DX )
Sonic Wings Special
Soukyu-gurentai
Space Invaders Variations
Stahlfeder
Toaplan Shooting Battle
Two-Tenkaku
Xevious 3D/G+


PS2 :

Castle Shikigami
Chaos field
Dragon Blaze
Guerrilla Strike
Ocean Commander ( very rare )
Psyvariar 2
Rajirugi: Precious (radirgy)
Shienryu Explosion
Sengoku Blade
Sol divide
Space Raiders
Thundercross
Twinkle Star Sprite
Trigger Heart Exelica
Trizeal


Dreamcast :

Karous
Trigger Heart Exelica
Trizeal
Twinkle Star Sprites

Ketsui is on the DS .

Oh , and you forgot the Nr. 1 SHMUP console entirely .


Its called the Sega Saturn !

Batsugun
Radiant Silvergun
Battle garegga


Helloooo....

:D
Stike
Member
(02-11-2010, 12:10 AM)
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Awesome thread and since I am an old-school shooter nut, I will contribute soon with a list of my favorite vintage shooters :D
MrTroubleMaker
(02-11-2010, 12:12 AM)
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cool thread
Urban Scholar
Member
(02-11-2010, 12:13 AM)
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I had another question for the veterans. Should one play a shmup like any other game? Like hours deep or bit by bit?
Mr_Furious
Member
(02-11-2010, 12:28 AM)
Don't forget Soldner-X2 is coming soon(ish) to PSN
Tain
Member
(02-11-2010, 02:20 AM)
Tain's Avatar

Should one play a shmup like any other game? Like hours deep or bit by bit?

Sometimes I'll do hours a day, sometimes I'll do a couple credits at a time. Whatever you feel like.

Just try to avoid playing when tired if you don't wanna get frustrated. :[
Urban Scholar
Member
(02-11-2010, 02:33 AM)
Urban Scholar's Avatar

Originally Posted by Tain

Sometimes I'll do hours a day, sometimes I'll do a couple credits at a time. Whatever you feel like.

Just try to avoid playing when tired if you don't wanna get frustrated. :[

Thank you for the advice, this weekend I think I'll see how much I progress with Everyday Shooter as well track down a copy of R-Type Final or Space Invaders Extreme if possible.
Shadow Red
Member
(02-11-2010, 02:52 AM)
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Don't forget Deathsmiles is coming soon(ish) to 360

A Black Falcon
Member
(02-11-2010, 03:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by CaseyTappy

Missed PS1 Jap releases:

3d shooting tsukuru
70’s Robot Anime Geppy-X
Air Grave
Cotton 100%
Dezaemon Kids
Dezaemon Plus
Galaga: Destination Earth
Image Fight/X-Multiply
Kaitei Daisensou
Meta-Ph-List Gamma X 2297
Raiden ( not DX )
Sonic Wings Special
Soukyu-gurentai
Space Invaders Variations
Stahlfeder
Toaplan Shooting Battle
Two-Tenkaku
Xevious 3D/G+


PS2 :

Castle Shikigami
Chaos field
Dragon Blaze
Guerrilla Strike
Ocean Commander ( very rare )
Psyvariar 2
Rajirugi: Precious (radirgy)
Shienryu Explosion
Sengoku Blade
Sol divide
Space Raiders
Thundercross
Twinkle Star Sprite
Trigger Heart Exelica
Trizeal


Dreamcast :

Karous
Trigger Heart Exelica
Trizeal
Twinkle Star Sprites

Ketsui is on the DS .

Oh , and you forgot the Nr. 1 SHMUP console entirely .


Its called the Sega Saturn !

Batsugun
Radiant Silvergun
Battle garegga


Helloooo....

:D

Oh right, on that note, a few more additions... these are all US releases.

Wii
--
Ocean Commander
Metal Slug Anthology

PS2
--
Heavenly Guardian
Metal Slug Anthology
Metal Slug 4 & 5

Xbox
--
Metal Slug 3
Metal Slug 4 & 5

PS1
--
Metal Slug X

DS
--
Metal Slug 7

GBA
--
Metal Slug Advance
(plus everything in the shmups.com list)
Mr_Furious
Member
(02-11-2010, 03:43 AM)
The more people post recommending certain games I'm starting to think that the Run-N-Gun genre should not technically qualify for this thread.

Nothing personal because I love me some Metal Slug or Contra action but they really are different genres.
hipgnosis
Member
(02-11-2010, 09:16 AM)
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What an awesome thread. Nice work!

STG:s are easily my most played genre nowadays. I used to play JRPGs all the time, but now I see myself playing shmups pretty much everytime I start my console.

My favorites are Gradius V, Ikaruga and Cave games. From the Run and Gun-genre I like Metal Slugs and Contra.
coamithra
Member
(02-11-2010, 10:11 AM)
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I love me some shooters. That's why I made one for Xbox Indie Games. There's a lot of them there, I hear some of them are pretty good! (Leave Home)
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
(02-11-2010, 10:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by Shadow Red

Don't forget Deathsmiles is coming soon(ish) to 360

It's been on the 360.
CaseyTappy
Member
(02-11-2010, 10:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

Oh right, on that note, a few more additions... these are all US releases.

Wii
--
Ocean Commander
Metal Slug Anthology

PS2
--
Heavenly Guardian
Metal Slug Anthology
Metal Slug 4 & 5

Xbox
--
Metal Slug 3
Metal Slug 4 & 5

PS1
--
Metal Slug X

DS
--
Metal Slug 7

GBA
--
Metal Slug Advance
(plus everything in the shmups.com list)


These apart for Ocean Commander are no Shmups !
A Black Falcon
Member
(02-11-2010, 10:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by CaseyTappy

These apart for Ocean Commander are no Shmups !

Well, if we're counting the other Pocky & Rocky games Heavenly Guardian should count too, it's an unofficial sequel... but yes, it isn't a shmup, for sure, and is even less of one than the previous games because of how large and open the levels are (at least in previous ones you were often railed along). Still, it is pretty much a Pocky & Rocky game... and many Metal Slug games have a shmup section or two somewhere in them. But other than that, yes, you're right. Metal Slug is for the most part a run & gun series.

Originally Posted by Mr_Furious

The more people post recommending certain games I'm starting to think that the Run-N-Gun genre should not technically qualify for this thread.

Nothing personal because I love me some Metal Slug or Contra action but they really are different genres.

I agree actually, as I said earlier in the thread I think, but the OP said that run & guns count, so I listed some anyway... but yes, as I said, it probably would be better to drop them, if we want to stay away from ending up listing almost every game that somehow involves guns. :)
CaseyTappy
Member
(02-11-2010, 10:51 AM)
CaseyTappy's Avatar
Pocky & Rocky is no Shmup either , i think the line must be drawn at games as Mamoru-Kun and Guwange , these still qualify !


Ahhh , Guwange :D

Now here's a game that should get a console release !
wsippel
Banned
(02-11-2010, 11:28 AM)
There are also at least two pretty good shmups on the DS/ DSi (Ketsui: Death Label and Aa Mujou Setsuna), as well as several not so great DSiWare shmups.


Originally Posted by ICallItFutile

If Sin & Punishment counts, doesn't any on-rails shooter as well?

S&P2 is very close to a shmup. It's just that it scrolls in all directions, including the Z axis. That said, I would never consider House of the Dead or other lightgun shooters "shmups", if you mean stuff like that.
Shinriji
Member
(02-11-2010, 11:40 AM)
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Don't forget about THEXDER NEO (PSN and PSP). Great old-school shmup. Also Raystorm HD will be released on PSN as well.
Rafaelcsa
Member
(02-11-2010, 12:23 PM)

Originally Posted by fatty

Wii:

US releases:
Heavenly Guardian (Pocky&Rocky-like)
Saint
The Monkey King: The Legend Begins

To anyone who has played them: how good are these games? Are they worth buying?
manzo
Member
(02-11-2010, 01:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rafaelcsa

To anyone who has played them: how good are these games? Are they worth buying?

No, no and no. All shovelware.
fatty
Member
(02-11-2010, 03:39 PM)
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The definition of a shooter is one of the things that I knew would come up when creating this topic and something I am still struggling with. When writing this up I used Wikipedia as a guide:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Definition

A "shoot 'em up", also known as a "shmup",[1][2] is a game in which the protagonist combats a large number of enemies by shooting at them while dodging their fire. The controlling player must rely primarily on reaction times to succeed.[3][4] Beyond this, critics differ on exactly which design elements constitute a shoot 'em up. Some restrict the genre to games featuring some kind of craft, using fixed or scrolling movement.[3] Others widen the scope to include games featuring such protagonists as robots or humans on foot, as well as including games featuring "on-rails" (or "into the screen") and "run and gun" movement.[4][5][6] Formerly, critics described any game where the primary design element was shooting as a "shoot 'em up",[4] but later shoot 'em ups became a specific, inward-looking genre based on design conventions established in those shooting games of the 1980s.

Not knowing about quite a few of these additions to the list, I’ve taken them pretty much without question, but I would have to agree, after a little research games like Wartech (Senko No Ronde) or Heavenly Guardian I would not consider to be in this category. They’ve been compared to games like Pocky & Rocky and Virtual On, both I don’t consider to be in the genre.

How about this, let’s stick to the more typical shooters that we are pretty much in agreement on…but also include ‘run & gun’, ‘on-rails’ and other non conventional type shooters for only the very best games that should not be missed? I’m up for comments, and I’m still not sure how this will work, but my main intent for this thread is to provide others a resource for types of shooters that they want to play. Having such a thorough and complete list is just an added bonus.

Trust me, I know that we should have consistent basis on what criteria we should consider, but more important to me is that we showcase the shooters that are worthy of being played. I do like the discussion that has sparked from this, though. As time allows I will go through and clean up the list and games like the ones mentioned above will be removed.

But here is a question for some, I’ve played quite a few of the Contras and I’m looking at trying my hand at a Metal Slug game, which is a good one to start with? What about someone who is familiar with both Contra and Metal Slug, is there another ‘run & gun’ game worth playing? (If the answer is ‘no’ that is perfectly fine but if there is a hidden gem out there it would be nice to know about it)

Originally Posted by Kron

First of all Border Down is a much better game than Gradius 5, More people should check it out.

That may be (I haven’t played it yet), but it’s not really feasible for someone new to the genre to start off with it considering it never came out in the US and the import copy is fetching $150 and higher on ebay.
coamithra
Member
(02-11-2010, 04:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by fatty

But here is a question for some, I’ve played quite a few of the Contras and I’m looking at trying my hand at a Metal Slug game, which is a good one to start with? What about someone who is familiar with both Contra and Metal Slug, is there another ‘run & gun’ game worth playing? (If the answer is ‘no’ that is perfectly fine but if there is a hidden gem out there it would be nice to know about it)

I may be alone in this, but I feel the very first Metal Slug is the best one. The others fall into the trap of just adding lot's of "stuff" without creating any extra depth (compared to games like Doom II or Starcraft Broodwar where new monsters/units radically changed the game). Pacing and fairness are also spot on MS1. For an example of the second being not so great in the sequels: the bosses of the first game (including the final boss) are often used as either throwaway bosses or with heavily enhanced abilities. I can get through MS2 with a single credit up until the final UFO boss where I get raped over and over and over, and it only gets worse from there.

So in summary: MS1 is the most elegant. :)
discoalucard
i am a butthurt babby that can only drool in wonder at shiney objects
(02-11-2010, 04:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by fatty

But here is a question for some, I’ve played quite a few of the Contras and I’m looking at trying my hand at a Metal Slug game, which is a good one to start with? What about someone who is familiar with both Contra and Metal Slug, is there another ‘run & gun’ game worth playing? (If the answer is ‘no’ that is perfectly fine but if there is a hidden gem out there it would be nice to know about it)

Gunstar Heroes for the Genesis is essential. The GBA pseudo-sequel remake is decent but not on the same level. Also, Konami put out a number of run and guns like Aliens (arcade), Sunset Riders, Mystic Warriors, and COWBoys of Moo Mesa. Only Sunset Riders got a console port, but the SNES one is definitely worth checking out.

Originally Posted by fatty

That may be (I haven’t played it yet), but it’s not really feasible for someone new to the genre to start off with it considering it never came out in the US and the import copy is fetching $150 and higher on ebay.

RE: Border Down, I'm not a big fan of it personally but I really wouldn't recommend it to newcomers either. The "big deal" of the game is that every time you die, you respawn to a different section of the level. It's cool in principle but really disorienting when you're trying to learn it.
fatty
Member
(02-11-2010, 05:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by discoalucard

Gunstar Heroes for the Genesis is essential. The GBA pseudo-sequel remake is decent but not on the same level. Also, Konami put out a number of run and guns like Aliens (arcade), Sunset Riders, Mystic Warriors, and COWBoys of Moo Mesa. Only Sunset Riders got a console port, but the SNES one is definitely worth checking out.

Ahh, I forgot about Sunset Riders, I have that one for the SNES. I agree, very much recommended.

"Bury me with my money!"
djtiesto
is beloved, despite what anyone might say
(02-11-2010, 08:29 PM)
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Great thread... Life Force was the game that got me hooked on the genre, and ESPGaluda is my favorite game in the genre... still waiting on ESPGaluda II, and most recently in love with Mushihime-sama Futari.

Also cool to see a mention of Starfighter Sanvein, an overhead top-down shooter where you're confined to small arenas to defeat enemies. Not too surprised to see it was Black Falcon mentioning it, nothing gets past that guy :lol
nexen
Member
(02-11-2010, 09:10 PM)
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My name is nexen and I approve of this thread.

Question: is the Thexder Neo for ps3 any different at all from the psp one?
discoalucard
i am a butthurt babby that can only drool in wonder at shiney objects
(02-11-2010, 09:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by nexen

Question: is the Thexder Neo for ps3 any different at all from the psp one?

I haven't played it myself, but based off what I've heard, it's pretty much the same, but at a higher resolution, I guess. You can also play it with the original PC88 graphics, if you'd like, which I know wasn't in the PSP version.
hipgnosis
Member
(02-11-2010, 10:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by fatty

But here is a question for some, I’ve played quite a few of the Contras and I’m looking at trying my hand at a Metal Slug game, which is a good one to start with? What about someone who is familiar with both Contra and Metal Slug, is there another ‘run & gun’ game worth playing? (If the answer is ‘no’ that is perfectly fine but if there is a hidden gem out there it would be nice to know about it)

Rapid Reload aka Gunners Heaven is a true hidden gem.

[IMG]http://i46.************/28uo8ow.jpg[/IMG]

It's a great Gunstar Heroes rip-off made by the same people who made the Wild Arms-series. It even has the same main character! I actually received this today and it's pretty great. It was a release game for PS1 so it was pretty much forgotten soon after. Sadly it was only released in Japan and Europe so you have to import it if you're livin in the States.

Here's an interesting article about the game concerning if Treasure was involved in the developement: http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/gh.htm

Video of the first level: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9gLi-ptb4U
jluedtke
Member
(02-11-2010, 10:27 PM)
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Great thread! But I hope you're planning on adding a Saturn category. IMO, Saturn is the absolute best console for shmups. (Japanese library, of course). And, they can be easily played on a US console with a $10-$20 Action Replay.

Also considering the Virtual Console's existance, the Turbo/PC Engine had an amazing shmup library as well, many of which are available on VC.
j^aws
Member
(02-11-2010, 11:42 PM)
Raiden III defence force signing in: Anyone shitting on this game, without mentioning the greatness of Double Mode, needs to be tarred, feathered and ignited with a pair of afterburners.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdFgj2e4KFs

Play the game like the dude above. I doubt anyone will have the audacity to tell him that he's playing a shit game, to his face.

Apart from that, you've already mentioned my favourite in the OP (Defender II, aka Stargate), so props to you!
Anso
Member
(02-12-2010, 02:58 PM)
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Probably thread of the forever. Mind if I add the extensive PAL PS2 shmup list with answers re: 60hz and similar later?
Serraxor
Junior Member
(02-12-2010, 04:42 PM)
I love me some shmups!! Let me help out with some Saturn and GBA love;

GBA
Gradius Galaxies
Iridion II
Phalanx
R-Type III
Sigma Star Saga (RPG with shmup battles)

Saturn
Arcade Gears: 3 Wonders
Arcade Gears: Gun Frontier
Arcade Gears: Image Fight and X-Multiply
Batsugun
Battle Garegga
Blast Wind
Bokan To Ippatsu Doronboo Kanpekiban
Capcom Generation 1: 194X
Capcom Generation 3
Cho Aniki Kyukyoku Otokonogyakushu
Cotton 2
Cotton Boomerang
Darius II
Darius Gaiden (released in North America)
Detana! Twinbee - Yahho Deluxe Pack
Dezaemon 2
DonPachi
DoDonPachi
Fantasy Zone
Game Paradise
Gekirindan
Gokujyou Parodius Da! Deluxe Pack
Gradius Deluxe
Guardian Force
Gunbird
Hyper Duel
Jikkyo Oshaberi Parodius
Kaitei Daisensou
Kingdom Grand Prix
Konami Antiques MSX Collection Ultra Pack
Kyukyoku Tiger 2 Plus
Layer Section (aka RayForce, released in North America as Galactic Attack)
Layer Secton II (aka RayStorm)
Macross: Do You Remember Love?
Metal Black
Planet Joker
Radiant Silvergun
Sengoku Blade
Sexy Parodius
Shienryu
Skull Fang
Sol Divide
Sonic Wings Special
Soukyugerentai
Salamander Deluxe Pack Plus
Space Invaders
Steam Hearts
Strikers 1945
Strikers 1945 II
Super Dimensional Fortress Macross
Terra Cresta 3D
Thunder Force V
Thunderforce Gold Pack 1
Thunderforce Gold Pack 2
Twinkle Star Sprites

.......wow, are there ever a lot (O_O)
Serraxor
Junior Member
(02-12-2010, 04:43 PM)

Originally Posted by j^aws

Raiden III defence force signing in: Anyone shitting on this game, without mentioning the greatness of Double Mode, needs to be tarred, feathered and ignited with a pair of afterburners.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdFgj2e4KFs

Play the game like the dude above. I doubt anyone will have the audacity to tell him that he's playing a shit game, to his face.

Apart from that, you've already mentioned my favourite in the OP (Defender II, aka Stargate), so props to you!


Raiden III SUCKS!!!

...Just kidding. It freaking rules. :D It may be the worst in the series, but it's far from being the worst of all time.
Serraxor
Junior Member
(02-12-2010, 04:45 PM)

Originally Posted by Rafaelcsa

To anyone who has played them: how good are these games? Are they worth buying?

Heavenly Guardian on Wii is better than the PS2 release because you can aim your shots one way with the Wiimote while moving another. It's about $10.00, so I'd say definitely worth it, but it's tough (O_O)
andymcc
Banned
(02-12-2010, 04:50 PM)
andymcc's Avatar
not trying to be a dick here, but you need to edit your posts. :lol
depths20XX
Member
(02-12-2010, 05:13 PM)
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Raiden III is definetly the worst of the series. It just feels really bland compared to the others.
Serraxor
Junior Member
(02-12-2010, 05:15 PM)

Originally Posted by andymcc

not trying to be a dick here, but you need to edit your posts. :lol

Is that better?
fatty
Member
(02-12-2010, 05:26 PM)
fatty's Avatar
OK, I think I’m pretty up to date with the list, at least for the consoles that are mentioned. You’ll notice that I tried to move the other shooters that were debatable as whether they were a pure shooter to their own category in the bottom which currently includes Run & Gun and On Rails. This isn’t meant to be complete, but more of a guide for people looking for another game in that subset of genre. Hopefully this is a good compromise.

A big 'Thank You' goes to A Black Falcon for not only helping me get the list correct, but also for providing some incite to the different compilations. They are very interesting reads.

Originally Posted by A Black Falcon


Also, you mess up your Strikers 1945 PSX listings. Strikers 1945 in the US is actually Strikers 1945 II. Agetec decided to drop the "II" for some reason, perhaps because the first one hadn't come out in the US? Anyway, both came out on PSX and Saturn in Japan, but only the second one in the US, so the one that should be in the Japanese releases section is Strikers 1945, not Strikers 1945 II, and "Strikers 1945" in the US listing should be noted to actually be Strikers 1945 II.


With Strikers 1945 and its sequel, shouldn’t both be listed under Japan? The note for the US version was added to mention that it is actually the sequel despite what the name says. Thanks again.

I’ll also add a Gamecube section this weekend to include the collections you listed. The Saturn (yes, the ultimate shooter machine…if you lived in Japan) and other classic consoles will be added eventually but I will rely on shmups.com for their list.

Originally Posted by Anso

Probably thread of the forever. Mind if I add the extensive PAL PS2 shmup list with answers re: 60hz and similar later?

Be my guest, but I’m trying to think of the best way to make it work. Currently we’re listing titles available in the US and only listing the Japanese titles if they’re not available domestically. Adding PAL only titles shouldn’t be a problem but adding those PAL titles also available elsewhere might be a bit confusing. That and I’m probably getting close to the text limit in that post. Also, if you wanted to include an extensive list in a separate post, I could always link to it as well. I’m unfamiliar with how the different frequencies affect PAL games and such so that info would be very helpful.
oracrest
Member
(02-12-2010, 05:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by fatty

But here is a question for some, I’ve played quite a few of the Contras and I’m looking at trying my hand at a Metal Slug game, which is a good one to start with? What about someone who is familiar with both Contra and Metal Slug, is there another ‘run & gun’ game worth playing? (If the answer is ‘no’ that is perfectly fine but if there is a hidden gem out there it would be nice to know about it)

There is no real story to speak of going across all the games, but the sense of narrative within them, and throughout levels is pretty incredible for a 2D arcade shooter. And they are all really fun, you can't really love one and not love another.

I would say hands down, 3 is the best. It brought SO much new stuff to the table, and I personally think it has the best story arc. (there is one scene in particular that always gives me goosebumps when I see it.)

Anso
Member
(02-12-2010, 05:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by fatty

Be my guest, but I’m trying to think of the best way to make it work. Currently we’re listing titles available in the US and only listing the Japanese titles if they’re not available domestically. Adding PAL only titles shouldn’t be a problem but adding those PAL titles also available elsewhere might be a bit confusing. That and I’m probably getting close to the text limit in that post. Also, if you wanted to include an extensive list in a separate post, I could always link to it as well. I’m unfamiliar with how the different frequencies affect PAL games and such so that info would be very helpful.

The main thing are a few PS2 conversions from Japan, some that never made it to the US. Some released by 505 Games, some not. Only the 60Hz versions are worth noting because you can't play a shmup in 50Hz with borders. Many PAL shmuppers need to be alerted these games exist and which actually plays properly. This is taken from a thread at shmups.system11:

PAL PS2 Shmups that support 60Hz

Gradius V

50/60hz switch: yes
Save: yes

R-Type Final

50/60hz switch: yes
Save: yes

Capcom Classics Collection Vol.2

50/60hz switch: yes
Save: yes
Supports progressive scan

Dragon Blaze

50/60hz switch: yes
Save: yes
Tate: yes

Gigawing Generations

50/60hz switch: yes
Save: yes
Tate: no

Gunbird: Special Edition

50/60hz switch: yes
Save: no
Tate: yes

Homura

50/60hz switch: yes
Save: yes
Tate: yes

Psyvariar: Complete Edition

50/60hz switch: yes
Save: yes (allows to save replays too)
Tate: yes

Raiden III

50/60hz switch: yes
Save: yes (allows to save replays too)
Tate: yes

Samurai Aces

50/60hz switch: yes
Save: yes
Tate: yes

Taito Legends

50/60hz switch: yes
Save: yes
Tate: yes

Taito Legends 2

50/60hz switch: yes (Darius Gaiden & Metal Black seem to run in 50hz regardless of the switch)
Save: yes
Tate: no
*Metal Black has a bug which doesn't let you charge the beam properly.

Tengai

50/60hz switch: yes
Save: yes

XII Stag

50/60hz switch: yes
Save: yes
Tate: yes
adversesolutions
Member
(02-12-2010, 05:43 PM)
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Tain is a god.

Let me declare. I hate shmups as a genre. I come from a fighting game background. I only appreciate the individual games that have risen above the morass of mediocre shite. The VF5s and the 3rd strikes in other words. The Demons Souls and Valkyria Chronicles. The COD4s and Killzone 2s (don't start).

Not sure if the OP has seen the Mega-CAVE thread but it's a great resource for the dev I personally consider to be the master of the genre (Edit: nevermind).

If you only have the opportunity to play a couple CAVE games I personally recommend:

Mushihimesama Futari
- Variable difficulty with different gameplay systems for each mode. Beautiful graphics and great gameplay. A fun and spastic arrange mode.
Deathsmiles - It's awesome unleashing a sea of golden crowns which break into tiaras and skulls. 1.1 mode alone is reason to own the port, so pick it up when it hits stateside.

I am a huge fan of Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu as well (see avatar), but this game may be too rigorous even for the more grizzled veterans in this thread.

I respect Grev, but can't say that I really enjoy their games so much.

I think Treasure are amazing, and Sin and Punishment 2 is one of the best games I've ever played. Only shame was that it wasn't shorter (for scoring runs) and on the 360 or PS3.

CAVE, Treasure, Grev. For me, these are some of the only game companies that matter.
Anso
Member
(02-12-2010, 05:43 PM)
Anso's Avatar
Notable XBLIG shmups worth your time/money

Amniotic - Top-down, multi-directional, endless.
Atomhex - Top-down, multi-directional, fantastic new gameplay ideas and enemies.
BIOLOGY BATTLE - Top-down, multi-directional, high production values and good gameplay.
Decimation X - Updated Space Invaders meet danmaku shmup.
Echoes+ - Top-down Asteroids evolution, one of the best.
I MAED A GAM3 W1TH Z0MB1ES 1NIT!!!1 - Hilarious top-down, mutli-directional, fixed length game with awesome soundtrack.
Leave Home - Horizontally scrolling, procedural, fixed length, score-attack shooter. One of the best shmups on 360, borrows from the best.
Platypus - Claymation, horizontally scrolling, level-based shooter. Nice to look at, lacks gameplay depth.
Squid Yes! Not So Octopus! - Top-down, fixed length, score attack shooter. Visually blowing your mind.
j^aws
Member
(02-12-2010, 06:21 PM)

Originally Posted by Serraxor

...Just kidding. It freaking rules. It may be the worst in the series, but it's far from being the worst of all time.

Originally Posted by depths20XX

Raiden III is definetly the worst of the series. It just feels really bland compared to the others.

Well, I'm not really disagreeing with these opinions.

I'm specifically talking about Double Mode (not Solo Mode). Once you become proficient at simultaneously controlling both ships, and independently controlling their weapon systems for aggressive speed-killing (the scoring system encourages this), the game dynamics change significantly. Both ships can even combine powers (when their primary weapons overlap), and having full control over them (even crossing paths) with an aggressive playstyle, is far more rewarding than just controlling one ship.

And once you're proficient, going back to Solo Mode in pretty much any game in genre feels "bland" and redundant...
A Black Falcon
Member
(02-13-2010, 05:50 AM)
A Black Falcon's Avatar

Originally Posted by fatty

OK, I think I’m pretty up to date with the list, at least for the consoles that are mentioned. You’ll notice that I tried to move the other shooters that were debatable as whether they were a pure shooter to their own category in the bottom which currently includes Run & Gun and On Rails. This isn’t meant to be complete, but more of a guide for people looking for another game in that subset of genre. Hopefully this is a good compromise.

A big 'Thank You' goes to A Black Falcon for not only helping me get the list correct, but also for providing some incite to the different compilations. They are very interesting reads.

If you're leaving out those games from the main list, you need to take Alien Syndrome out I think... it's a top-down free-roaming shooter, after all, no auto-scrolling or anything. If you were counting Pocky & Rocky and stuff I could see maybe listing it, but otherwise, probably not... and the same goes for the modern Wii/PSP Alien Sydrome too I'm sure.

... Also, should Turbo CD titles be noted separately in some way from HuCard titles? I know the VC mixes the two together, but really they are separate, and the size differences are huge for sure... might be worth listing the CD titles as 'TGCD' or something, maybe. Up to you though.

Also you listed Xyanide Resurrection as a US PS2 release, even though I thought I was clear that the game only came out in the US on Xbox, the PS2 and PSP versions were Europe and Japan only... (and the Xbox version, Xyanide, was US only) I guess you missed that. Or is it because there's no Europe section?

Oh, and noting that "Mobile Light Force 2" for PS2 is actually Castle Shikigami 1 is probably worthwhile.

With Strikers 1945 and its sequel, shouldn’t both be listed under Japan? The note for the US version was added to mention that it is actually the sequel despite what the name says. Thanks again.

If you're listing all titles, yes. But the list looked liike you were only listing Japan releases not released in the US, which is why I said that... but if you are listing all Japan releases, yes.

I’ll also add a Gamecube section this weekend to include the collections you listed. The Saturn (yes, the ultimate shooter machine…if you lived in Japan) and other classic consoles will be added eventually but I will rely on shmups.com for their list.

The only thing that shmups.com really doesn't do is note which games came out in which regions. For the Saturn though, it's simple -- apart from the following titles all were Japan-only.

RayForce/Galactic Attack - JEU
In the Hunt - JEU
Darius Gaiden - JEU
Darius II - JE
Parodius Collection (just "Parodius" in Europe) - JE

The Gamecube has a few more shmups than those collections of course, but the two shmups.com lists should have all of them between them.

Be my guest, but I’m trying to think of the best way to make it work. Currently we’re listing titles available in the US and only listing the Japanese titles if they’re not available domestically. Adding PAL only titles shouldn’t be a problem but adding those PAL titles also available elsewhere might be a bit confusing. That and I’m probably getting close to the text limit in that post. Also, if you wanted to include an extensive list in a separate post, I could always link to it as well. I’m unfamiliar with how the different frequencies affect PAL games and such so that info would be very helpful.

Yeah, such a list would definitely be best done by someone who knows the frequency issues... but there seems to be a start of one already, so that's good. :)

Originally Posted by Serraxor

Heavenly Guardian on Wii is better than the PS2 release because you can aim your shots one way with the Wiimote while moving another. It's about $10.00, so I'd say definitely worth it, but it's tough (O_O)

Honestly, if the game let you save between levels, or if you unlocked the next level in level select after finishing a level, I'd recommend the game absolutely to anyone who likes that kind of game. However, you can't do that. You have to play the whole stupid extremely difficult and long game in one sitting... with infinite continues. What in the world possessed them to release a game these days with such an incredibly bad save system? The worst thing is that the "level select" option taunts you in the menus, but you can't select it until you beat the game... ARGH!

It's a fun game, but you'd better be ready to devote a big block of time to it, and it's HARD too. It's far from uncommon to die at the boss of a level, have to start the whole level over from scratch, and then die at the boss AGAIN and be sent back yet again... it can be very frustrating, particularly on PS2 where the controls aren't quite as good. It is a decent game despite that, it looks nice and the gameplay is fun, but the saving and continue issues really do hurt it a lot. I wouldn't mind the difficulty quite as much if I could save and pick up from that hard level later on...


Oh, from the new end of the list...

Originally Posted by fatty

Alien Hominid [Run & Gun] (XLBA, Gamecube)
Alien Soldier [Run & Gun] (GEN, VC)
Contra [Run & Gun] (XLBA, NES)
Contra Hard Corps [Run & Gun] (GEN)
Contra III: The Alien Wars [Run & Gun] (SNES, VC)
Contra: Shattered Soldier [Run & Gun] (PS2)
Gunners Heaven [Run & Gun] (PS1 Store- JPN, PS-JPN)
Gunstar Heroes [Run & Gun] (GEN, VC)
Metal Slug [Run & Gun] (NEOGEO, VC)
Metal Slug 2 [Run & Gun] (NEOGEO, VC)
Metal Slug 3 [Run & Gun] (PS2, Xbox)
Metal Slug 4 & 5 [Run & Gun] (PS2, Xbox)
Metal Slug Anthology [Run & Gun] (PS2, Wii)
Metal Slug X [Run & Gun] (PS1)
Rez [On Rails] (XLBA, PS2)
Sin & Punishment [On Rails] (N64, VC)
Sin & Punishment 2 [On Rails] (Wii)
Star Fox [On Rails] (SNES)
Sunset Riders [Run & Gun] (SNES)
Super Contra [Run & Gun] (XLBA, NES, VC)

You're not listing regions here... I know you don't want to for length, but they should be mentioned somewhere at least -- you don't mix Japanese and US releases anywhere else...

Metal Slug Anthology was also on PSP. Rez was also on Dreamcast of course. Also, if you're listing the best rail shooters, Star Fox 64 and the three main Panzer Dragoon games should be on the list too...

Metal Slug 1 was released in the US and Japan on Neo-Geo MVS (the arcade machine), Neo-Geo AES (the home system), and Neo-Geo CD. In Japan only it also was released on Saturn and Playstation. In addition to the anthology, it's also in the SNK Arcade Classics Vol. 1 for PS2/PSP/Wii.

Metal Slug 2 was Neo-Geo MVS, AES, and CD only, before the Metal Slug Anthology.

Metal Slug 3 PS2 was Japan-only.

There was also a "Sunset Riders" game on Genesis, but unlike the SNES game, which is a great port of the awesome arcade classic, the Genesis game is completely different, and nowhere near as good... so I'd leave it off if you're only looking for highlights. It can confuse some people though because it has the same title.

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