Difference is that this has the video of it actually being used, it's a news report video if it matters
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'Textalyzer' Device Allows Police To Determine If Drivers Text While Driving
- Thread starter Armadilo
- Start date
Difference is that this has the video of it actually being used, it's a news report video if it matters
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
So it just basically sees if the phone was being swiped or touched at what time?
That will not hold up in court if someone else is in the car, and may not hold up at all period. I would even expect an app to be released that runs in the background and removes that data while you drive or as soon as something is plugged in the USB slot.
They would need to prove you were driving at the exact time you did the swipe or text. But if this is just a money making grab like seat belt tickets they will just drop it to a lesser charge and still make money in court fees.
That will not hold up in court if someone else is in the car, and may not hold up at all period. I would even expect an app to be released that runs in the background and removes that data while you drive or as soon as something is plugged in the USB slot.
They would need to prove you were driving at the exact time you did the swipe or text. But if this is just a money making grab like seat belt tickets they will just drop it to a lesser charge and still make money in court fees.
Kaiser Swayze
Member
Not a fan. But I also think people who text and drive are shitheels.
beelulzebub
Banned
So if I receive a text and ask a passenger to draft a response for me, wouldn't that be flagged here in this device? Or if my phone is using Spotify and I let a passenger be DJ?
So many avenues that this textalyzer can go wrong.
So many avenues that this textalyzer can go wrong.
What's the probable cause if an officer is called to an accident scene after it occurs though? I can see an argument for it if the officer witnesses the infraction or crash and can articulate facts that could support probable cause. Even potentially eye witness accounts could be used, I suppose. But the mere existence of an infraction or crash, per se, shouldn't be enough to permit a 4th amendment search of your phone.
Ninja Scooter
Member
the key there is suspected drunk driver, which they can usually tell by speaking/observing an individual. How in the world do you show up to an accident scene and suspect someone was texting?
Easy. Check their skin color.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Apple and Google have been trying to move iOS and Android to pervasive default full-device encryption for some time now.
I think everyone should immediately consider encrypting their device, and if their device is an older one which doesn't support it, consider upgrading to one that does.
Have fun plugging into an encrypted phone coppers, and if the driver conveniently forgets their password then too fucking bad unless you plan to try and arrest them on the spot with no evidence whatsoever of wrongdoing.
I think everyone should immediately consider encrypting their device, and if their device is an older one which doesn't support it, consider upgrading to one that does.
Have fun plugging into an encrypted phone coppers, and if the driver conveniently forgets their password then too fucking bad unless you plan to try and arrest them on the spot with no evidence whatsoever of wrongdoing.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Talk about using a sledgehammer to pound in a nail.
Netherscourge
Banned
....and how does it differentiate finger taps with steering wheel controls or voice commands?
As someone who drives on the interstate system all across the country, I welcome this.
I nearly get killed by someone on their phone at least once a week. And 90% of those that do are driving a BMW or Mercedes. And that alone gives ya some input of the people behind the wheel!
I nearly get killed by someone on their phone at least once a week. And 90% of those that do are driving a BMW or Mercedes. And that alone gives ya some input of the people behind the wheel!
Violence Jack
Member
Had a family member die due to a driver texting who ran a red light, so I'm all for doing something to deter people from texting while driving. On the other hand, I wouldn't trust my phone in the hands of an officer, especially as a black man. There has to be a better solution out there than this.
What should be alarming is that this "textalyzer" is just downloading logged information from a phone, so the phone itself is logging your activity.
It seemed kind of vague in the video with it just referencing system activity with timestamps so it was probably accessing the system log... BUT... the potential for the mobile OS devs and the police to royally fuck every day people over is definitely there.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
I would like some way for the cops to know that the idiot who hit me was texting when it happened.
They're as bad if not worse than drunk drivers.
I'm all ears if you have an alternative for them to discover 30 minutes after the fact that you were staring at your phone when you crashed into me.
BobTheFork
Member
Don't they need a warrant for my phone?
The Faceless Master
Member
absolutely terrible idea.
this just means more minorities will be shot and killed after reaching for their phones because the officer said 'give me your phone' then the cop ~feared for their life~ when the minority they pulled over complies.
fuck that shit.
this just means more minorities will be shot and killed after reaching for their phones because the officer said 'give me your phone' then the cop ~feared for their life~ when the minority they pulled over complies.
fuck that shit.
Ninja Scooter
Member
"Let me see your phone"
"Yes sir officer no problem let me get it for you"
"HES GOING FOR A GUN!"
superdeluxe
Member
Just have a passenger
This is exactly what will happen.
TyphoonStruggle
Member
This is a stupid piece of technology.
Easiest way to get over it? Buy two phones.
False positives: if your passenger was using your phone.
What we need are self driving cars. This Textalyzer is only a stopgap and not even a good one.
Easiest way to get over it? Buy two phones.
False positives: if your passenger was using your phone.
What we need are self driving cars. This Textalyzer is only a stopgap and not even a good one.
I wouldn't be surprised if this has already happened.
I'm cool with this. People who text and drive can get fucked. As far as I'm concerned, they should loose their license and get thrown in jail too for good measure. As long as any bill passed makes it not mandatory (same as with a breathalyzer), I'm cool with it.
TBH, I'm not overly worried about abuse, at least not any more than with a breathalyzer. As of right now, the he said-she said system just doesn't work.
TBH, I'm not overly worried about abuse, at least not any more than with a breathalyzer. As of right now, the he said-she said system just doesn't work.
Ain't a nail to those who have had people killed by dickwads that text while driving.
Khaos Kontrol
Banned
Fuck that shit. Hope it never comes to fruition.
BigBeauford
Member
Fuck this Orwellian bullshit.
Ninja Scooter
Member
HoodWinked
Member
you guys are gullible as fuck.
the phone that was used in this segment was a nexus 5, thats a pretty old phone so thats a phone that they likely provided to the reporter for the demonstration. the reporter probably owns an iphone.
so they have to preinstall logging software on the nexus 5 then connect it to the tablet which reads out the logs.
this isn't really going to happen since this would require android/ios to heavily log which would serve no purpose nor would they comply. android is open source anyways so people would disable it.
only thing that would work is the texting stuff but they could just physically look at the text messages on the phone to see the timestamps or get the text message log from the service provider with a warrant.
the phone that was used in this segment was a nexus 5, thats a pretty old phone so thats a phone that they likely provided to the reporter for the demonstration. the reporter probably owns an iphone.
so they have to preinstall logging software on the nexus 5 then connect it to the tablet which reads out the logs.
this isn't really going to happen since this would require android/ios to heavily log which would serve no purpose nor would they comply. android is open source anyways so people would disable it.
only thing that would work is the texting stuff but they could just physically look at the text messages on the phone to see the timestamps or get the text message log from the service provider with a warrant.
There's also this now
http://www.news1130.com/2016/05/17/new-tool-police-distracted-driving/
Or this
http://mashable.com/2014/09/25/radar-gun-texting-and-driving/#obRS.N2NDZqt
Many different options, but I've yet to see anywhere widely start using any, which sucks, because people driving while using their phones is literally a massive epidemic.
http://www.news1130.com/2016/05/17/new-tool-police-distracted-driving/
Or this
http://mashable.com/2014/09/25/radar-gun-texting-and-driving/#obRS.N2NDZqt
Many different options, but I've yet to see anywhere widely start using any, which sucks, because people driving while using their phones is literally a massive epidemic.
Living the Dream
Member
Go ahead and add 'Texting while black' to the list
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Was Getty Images running a sale on ancient phone pics?
Nor do DUI tests and breathalyzers only affect those that drink and drive. That doesn't mean there's no point to them. And it's not about pulling at peoples heartstrings, it's about having as few people text and drive as possible. Some respond to ads and information telling why texting and driving is bad, but others won't listen until there's a strong punishment, and an effort to crack down hard on texting and driving.
Of course it's going to come with consequences, the real question is whether the pros in this case outweigh the cons. I believe they do, so long as they can't force you to hand over or unlock your phone.
If texting (or "texting") while black wasn't already something that would get you killed, I'll be damned. Still, I do think the societal costs of texting while driving need to be examined and compared to possible abuses. Individual cases of abuse are not able to invalidate a crime stopping model. DUI tests, as I have already mentioned, are a good example of this.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
Ok, I think we're all in agreement that this is scary. What alternative would you propose for police to figure out if someone was texting when they hit another vehicle or ran over someone?
Because if you're drunk, the punishment is much more severe and I think that texting while driving is on the same level of drunk driving. In fact I think it's worse.
FrankCanada97
Roughly the size of a baaaaaarge
What was wrong with just getting records of phone activity from the telecom company?
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
Probably because you could be in mid text and ram into someone before you sent it out and the telecoms would never know. Or are you assuming everyone will be in mid conversation before they hit someone?
Ninja Scooter
Member
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
False equivalency. If you've already been in a crash or are swerving all around the road, they have a reason to check what is going on.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Swerving around or being belligerent or smelling or booze after a crash puts you under suspicion of being drunk, which is why cops can then then issue a breathalyzer or ask for a warrant for a blood test.
Simply being in an accident is not proof that I've been drinking or texting. Nor is it reasonable that the act of being in an accident should put someone under suspicion of either. If the cops think I've been texting, it's their job to prove I was, it's not my job to prove I wasn't. There's a distinction.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
You're wrong. If there's an accident, they can also measure the skid marks on the road to measure the friction of your tires to determine if you were speeding. They will look at the damage you caused to the other vehicle, the materials of said material and compare it to lab results of different speed of a full vehicle ramming into that material. With that, they can fairly accurately judge your speed. They will also take a look at your headlights to determine if you had your headlights on if you were driving at night (your headlight bulbs will break differently if they were on or off). There is a lot of determination in an investigation and I think that if you were texting falls under that realm.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Reviewing skid marks on a public road doesn't require invading someone's right to privacy. If a police officer doesn't have reasonable cause or suspicion that you were texting while driving, they should have no right to search your phone. That's not how it works.
Again, I ask, if a cop pulls up to an accident, what would cause them to "think you were texting"?
hipbabboom
Huh? What did I say? Did I screw up again? :(
This doesn't seem like a good idea
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
I didn't say that they have a right to search your phone. I am vehemently against that. I do think that they should have the ability to determine if you were tapping on your phone when the collision happened.
I don't think a separate sensor/chip in the phone that has no network connectivity and that measures solely screen activity is a terrible idea.
If a cop pulls up to a collision, I want them to be able to determine the cause of the accident. A cop immediately checks if you're impaired just by a visual and smell test if you're alcoholically impaired.
But now you bring up a good point. I live in Colorado and I'm wondering now if they check to see if you've been smoking if you've been in a collision.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I mean, if they can determine that to the standard of "reasonable suspicion/probably cause" then sure, but with texting/driving I'm not holding my breath.
That's what I was thinking. Wouldn't people just figure out away around this?
None of these examples you used would be protected by the 4th amendment. A warrantless search and seizure of your phone without probable cause is unconstitutional. That's an enormous distinction.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
I agree. I'll state again that I'm vehemently against the cops being able to carte blanche search your phone. However, I do think they should be able to have the ability to determine if you were tapping away on your phone when you collided with a vehicle or ran over someone.
I'm not going to move on the ultimate goal which is to properly punish people who are texting while driving. I also have said that I think people who text while driving are as bad as if not worse than drunk drivers. I am openly welcoming a discussion on how we can achieve what the cops need to figure that out without what is currently being proposed.