Random_Dude
Member
Where did the whole "It's the trophies fault" narrative came from anyway? Did some dev actually mention them or are people shooting in the dark and eventually got fixated on the one thing they hate?
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PS2 on PS4 - how can Sony save this
- Thread starter Jack The Nipper
- Start date
Came in to say this.
Sell an emulator that will authenticate and boot legit PS1 and PS2 games.
Sony are not going to go back and make a console with PS2 AND PS3 hardware in it. Some folks don't know what dreams are made of.
InsaneTiger
Member
They should just have a way for the Classics purchased on PS3 be playable on PS4. Trophy supported games can be $5 more than the Classic version. But they won't do this because of money, people will repurchase games.
That reminds me if the first cross gen PS3/4 games like Injustice, where you paid an upgrade fee to run the PS4 game using a OS3 disc as an unlock key.
I'm on board with that idea but lower the price to $10 and we're solid.
Trophies are the major thing that stop making PS2 on PS4 classics from being roughly as straightforward as PS1/PS2 Classics on the PS3 - they have to create custom hooks for the trophies unique to every game.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
Do you even care about them? That doesn't seem like a reasonable price for a lot of games.
Yeah, I don't get this either. Trophies are made in game development, it's not like they take a lot of time or resources to do. PS2 classics on PS3 didn't have trophies, and they were added at the same rate PS2 on PS4 games are right now.
Irishonion
Member
Trophies requirements is the easy scapegoat. It's definitely part of the problem. But there has to be a bigger issue as to why there's not a steady release of a huge library of ps2 games.
I was excited when the #ps2ps4 started up. Thought we would get way than we have now. Sucks. :/
I was excited when the #ps2ps4 started up. Thought we would get way than we have now. Sucks. :/
Mostly a result of complaints that entire PS3 library didn't transfer 1:1.Random_Dude said:
The library has actually been growing noticeably faster on PS4 (on US store - 42 PS2 games for PS4 (1 1/2 years), and 98 for PS3 (6 years), but with some titles overlapping between the two there's no easy way to tell if this is limited by license negotiations like on PS3.
PS3 hardware, maybe not. They never even engineered a hardware solution for that. And they are too stubborn to give up on Playstation Now as a solution for PS3 games, even though that service is clearly dead in the water. If they were smart though, it would have been a part of the featureset for a premium console like the PS4 Pro.
PS2 hardware, why not? Whatever hardware emulator they used in the original PS3 can be reproduced at a reduced cost. At this point I don't see why they couldn't use software emulation for PS2 anyway. Obviously they are halfway there already, since they are selling PS2 classics.
This would help plus lowering the prices.
It came from Sony blaming the trophy requirement for the pricing and why they didn't allow PS2 Classics from the PS3 to carry over. Iirc Yoshida said as much in an interview with PS Nation. I think his phrasing was more along the lines of Sony was adding a lot, so they felt they should charge more. The Sony devs that add the trophies have said it takes about a month per game.
Random_Dude
Member
From what I understand, Sony doesn't mandate that a game has to have a platinum + 20 or more trophies- they could probably get away with with say, 10. I guess I just find it really weird that the only thing apparently stopping an endless parade of ps2 games, and the money from the sales, is essentially 10 minutes of uninspired brainstorming and the application of said hooks.
Edit:
Ah well now, I hadn't seen this- I guess I assumed the emulation made the implementation of the hooks easier, but I guess I was wrong. Hmmmm.
the emotion engine is dead hardware technology probably not even mass produced anymore, and they are using software emulation, not hardware based.
When you consider that these old emulated titles are by and large niche products barring a few evergreen classics that likely already have or are getting proper remasters, dumping any amount of resources beyond a straight ISO dump probably looks unappealing to most publishers.
Sony has dropped the ball HARD on this.
MS is killing it with BC. I never cared for BC on PS4 but with what MS is doing like makes you think Sony could be doing the same.
Like Sony is literally half assing this "PS2 HD classics" shit so bad. Like they dont release jack shit any more. No incentive so screw them. I will only buy the current ones that I like when they are like $5 or less but its depressing seeing their output.
Im glad MS is doing all the right things. I mean sounds like Scorpio will even play the BC titles. Thats like mind blowing. Its something you'd think Sony would be doing by now.
MS is killing it with BC. I never cared for BC on PS4 but with what MS is doing like makes you think Sony could be doing the same.
Like Sony is literally half assing this "PS2 HD classics" shit so bad. Like they dont release jack shit any more. No incentive so screw them. I will only buy the current ones that I like when they are like $5 or less but its depressing seeing their output.
Im glad MS is doing all the right things. I mean sounds like Scorpio will even play the BC titles. Thats like mind blowing. Its something you'd think Sony would be doing by now.
As I noted above - there's never been an endless parade of PS1 or PS2 games on other consoles either. Whatever trophies add to release schedule, removing them wouldn't open any special flood-gates beyond 'potentially' getting what's already on PS3 across faster. Licensing negotiation is what really takes time for these.Random_Dude said:
That's also what makes 360 BC different - licensing became much more forward looking for software in that generation - which is demonstrated by how quickly PS3 software showed up on PSNow as well.
Dr. Black Jack
Member
Just buy a damn PS2.
It was supposed to, but from what some of the devs were saying it sounded like it limited what kind of trophies they could have.
Crayon
Member
There's a lot they could do to improve it but I don't know if I'd really buy any. If there was one thing that could get me to buy ps2 games, it would be a bigger selection.
Oh and you know... the ps1 games I bought for ps3 not carrying over somehow definitely cools me on the idea of collecting digital ps games. If they could rectify that I'd be more interested.
Oh and you know... the ps1 games I bought for ps3 not carrying over somehow definitely cools me on the idea of collecting digital ps games. If they could rectify that I'd be more interested.
MS are doing 360 BC of certain titles, Sony can't do PS3 BC period. That's the difference.
I just looked it up. PS2 on PS4 games are actually releasing at a faster rate than PS2 classics did! Going by Wikipedia's list, in NA there are 121 PS2 classics and 41 (soon to be 45) PS2 on PS4 games. That's a rate of 121/6 = 20 games per year, vs 41/1.5 = 27 games per year.
This "failure" narrative really needs to stop.
This "failure" narrative really needs to stop.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
I do. I'm not gonna buy a bunch of emulated old-ass PS2 games on PS4 if there aren't trophies.
Augemitbutter
Member
put them on a disc. or more disc. that's all i need.
oh and i'm not buying these without trophies. i can already play all these games on my PS2.
oh and i'm not buying these without trophies. i can already play all these games on my PS2.
LiquidSolid
Member
SMFH. There are people out there who think emulating the PS3 on PS4 hardware is even a remote possibility? Please, just stop.
Anyway, I don't understand why Sony didn't just create two different lines of PS2 Classics. On one you could just have the relatively simple DVD rip with no enhancements or trophies, like they are on PS3, price them cheaper and make them cross-buy with the PS3 classics. And then on the other, you can have trophies and enhancements for a higher price. That way they can get far more PS2 Classics on the store with less effort, while satisfying the people who want their PS3 classics to carry over and the publishers who don't want to put any real effort into them, while also making money off those "premium" classics.
This is disingenuous at best considering the PS3 support has effectively been dead for a few years (I think they've releases a single game per year for the last couple). The number of participating publishers on PS4 is far, far smaller as well. It's not dead, but it's clearly struggling to to maintain a solid pipeline of titles
Yeah, because the PS3 couldn't handle a lot of PS2 emulation, hence the limited library. PS4 doesn't have that issue.
Take a look at the PS1 classics on PS3 release list. That's what it's supposed to look like if it was a success.
DarkConfidant
Member
This. Those games weren't even designed with them in mind. Trophy fiends have plenty of other trees to bark up.
At this point I don't see why PS2 and PS3 couldn't both be emulated in software, given what Microsoft has been doing with Xbox One. The problem is that Sony doesn't seem to have enough faith in their emulators to make a wide array of games available. So either beef up the team working on software emulation, or just say "fuck it" and engineer a hardware-based solution that won't require as much ingenuity from your coders.
Nintendo is pretty notoriously frugal, and even they managed to provide backwards compatibility with GameCube on the Wii, and backwards compatibility with Wii on the WiiU. In an era of digital distribution, BC opens up entirely new revenue streams. Ignoring that is kinda foolish.
Youre in the minority. I just want to play classic PS2 games. Fuck trophy bullshit, especially if thats what holding up the devs from releasing more games.
That has not been an issue - PS3 has a total number of PS2 releases that's almost the same as PS1 to-date, it's just more fragmented across different territories.TheChaos said:
It re-affirms what I said about licensing issues - Nothing to do with compatibility at all.
Sony has even intimated that they could still have trophies in games that are straight-up emulated, but they just wouldn't be capable of in-depth, realtime stat-tracking. So you could still have trophies, but they wouldn't be very creative -- just stuff that reads save files. So the only trophies would be stuff like "Beat Level 2" or "Get your character to level 50" or "Beat the game on Expert difficulty". I think trophy hunters would be more than fine with that though.
Grim Patron
Member
1.Drop the trophy requirement
2. All the games that are ps2 on ps3 classics should be available.
3. release more than 1 game per quarter
2. All the games that are ps2 on ps3 classics should be available.
3. release more than 1 game per quarter
If you can't make PS2 trophy support super easy then don't bother with that. And honor our prior purchases, if not by straight up letting us download again then at least a loyalty discount. When rebuying retro games we're probably more inclined to build up a "permanent" digital library rather than just buying again and again with every platform unless they're games we REALLY loved, and as it stands Microsoft of all the damn companies is the closest to doing it "right."
EDIT: Hell, maybe if trophies MUST be there put in some sort of time based system as a default "well fuck it" thing. It's not particularly exciting, but I imagine that's an easy one to implement on any game period, and maybe lock the Platinum itself behind beating the game.
EDIT: Hell, maybe if trophies MUST be there put in some sort of time based system as a default "well fuck it" thing. It's not particularly exciting, but I imagine that's an easy one to implement on any game period, and maybe lock the Platinum itself behind beating the game.
The Cell+RSX combo is NOT the Xbox 360 architecture, its far more complicated to emulate in hardware. Even on top of the line machines PS3 emulation is barely getting up to scratch and running 11 years from launch
Jack The Nipper
Banned
Have one and hundreds of games.
pretty done
Member
With wired controllers, memory cards and modded with an HDMI input too.
Fredrik
Member
What is that, could you explain? Is it like Nintendo did on VC where they spread out 50 frames over 60hz which induced stuttering?
I have four PS2s and still want some titles on my PS3/PS4. Like some of the expensive hard to find games.
Agent X
Member
I understand that licensing negotiation is a major factor, but I don't think that the requirement to "add trophies" should be dismissed. As seen in the article from GamingBolt that randomkid mentioned in his post above:
That is what one of Sony's own people is claiming. Do developers and publishers really want to expend resources (read: time and money) doing this?
If all that's needed is for publishers and developers to sit down at the negotiating table, then why aren't they doing exactly that? Why do big-name publishers like Electronic Arts and Activision get multiple Xbox 360 games approved for Xbox One every month, whereas both of these companies haven't gotten one single solitary PS2 classic up for PS4? Don't these companies want to continually peddle their stuff on future systems, and keep the money rolling in for the next few decades?
I truly think that Sony's added development requirements, combined with a lack off cross-buy carryover (which surely puts a sour taste in consumers's mouths), is what's impeding this whole thing. I'd love to see some video game journalist put the question to one of the major third-party publishers. Perhaps the answer might prove sobering to Sony's management.
jacob armitage
Banned
For me its all price and selection, they're mostly $15-20 Canadian. I feel like $8-10 would be much better price point.