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Hours Left · Dec 17, 2012

In honor of Suikoden's anniversary (yesterday... >_>), I thought is was about time that the series had a community thread of its own, so welcome to the Suikoden Community Thread! This is a place to discuss all things Suikoden obviously, so please enjoy.

-Rules-

Here's some simple rules to follow:

UPDATE: Due to requests, we will now spoiler tag spoilers in this topic. Minor events are permissible, but please keep all major plot points tagged.
Discussion of all related Suikoden materials is allowed too, so please feel free to go Suikocrazy.
Fanart is fine, but please refrain from posting anything too naughty. (Just follow NeoGAF's rules and you'll be fine.)
Any news about future developments in the series should be posted in a new thread.
Please be respectful of each other and everything will be just peachy.

-Topics-

Some possible topics of discussion could include...

The nature of the True Runes
Dat Harmonia
How the music changed your life
Jeane/Viki/Leknaat shenanigans
Castle envy
Etc. Etc. Etc.

-Main Series-

Suikoden
The game that started it all. Young Tir is a new recruit into the Imperial Army living in the shadow of his famous father, trying to make his own way in the world. But when he is exposed to the corruption that has been festering under the surface of the Empire's seemingly brilliant veneer, his life, and the lives of those closest to him, will forever be changed.

Suikoden II
Riou and Jowy have been best friends since childhood, their bond unbreakable. But when the machinations of crazed army commander and the political fallout of two nations forever at odds thrust the two men into opposing positions, the true strength of their friendship will determine the fate of countless lives.

Suikoden III
The young son of the Karaya Chief...
The Captain of an elite squadron of knights...
The leader of a band of mercenaries...
A forgotten nobleman...
A certain wind mage...
An eavesdropping dog...?

The actions of these individuals will set in motion a series of events that will challenge the very laws of nature.

Suikoden IV
A small child washes ashore and is taken in by a noble family. When that child becomes a young man, he tries to do his part in serving the nation that gave him a second chance at life. But actions do not come without consequences, and the role you were born to play may be inescapable. Now, with his old life is washed away for a second time, this man, Lazlo, will truly learn that punishment and atonement are a never ending cycle.

Suikoden V
The Prince of a Queendom, his gender excluding him from any royal responsibility, he lives his life surrounded by friends and family, enjoying a leisurely existence. But when forces beyond his control threaten his family, and as such, the entire fate of his country, Prince Freyjadour will fight to free his land from tyranny and save those dear to him.

-Side Games-

Genso Suikogaiden Vol. 1 & Genso Suikogaiden Vol. 2
Nash Latkje, a member of Harmonia's Southern Border Defence Force, accepts a mission to investigate a certain rune. Along the way, this clever young man will find himself entangled in a variety of situations, all while attempting to influence events from behind the scenes. But what of those he left behind in Harmonia? Nash's absence may just be the opportunity a certain bespectacled man was waiting for...

Suikoden Tactics
Kyril and his friends are on a mission to eradicate rune cannons from the land. These powerful weapons are a scourge that must be eliminated, but the powerful Kooluk Empire would rather harness the mighty force of these arms to their advantage. Can Kyril stop the madman behind this plot before it's too late? Sometime the cost of war can lead to an outcome that no one sees coming...

-Spin-offs-

Genso Suikoden: Card Stories
A simplified retelling of the plot of Suikoden II, based around the Suikoden card game.

Suikoden: Tierkreis
An non-canon spin-off. A young man must prevent a destroyer of worlds from obliterating his entire existence.

Genso Suikoden: Centennial Tapestry
Another non-canon spin-off. The past and present collide as a group of friends battle to save their world.

-Media & Merchandise-

The Suikoden series has a multitude of products to accompany the video games. From a wide variety of soundtracks, a manga based on Suikoden III, a copious amount of artbooks, novelizations and guides, and even its own magazine & radio show. (Not to mention a card game, action figures and various other nicknacks.)

These various forays into the world of Suikoden serve to further deepen the expansive lore that makes this series so great.

-Credits & Notes-

-Thanks for reading the OP. I hope this topic will provide Suikoden fans with a place to continue their love for this great series. If anyone has any ideas of things to add to the OP, feel free to suggest so. Also, I know my graphics for this thread are less than stellar, so if anyone would like to contribute something more aesthetically pleasing, please PM me or let me know in this thread. Thanks!

-Thanks to Konami for making such a wonderful series. I really hope they will continue with the canon world one day...

-The Suikoden Revival Movement is a group dedicated to bringing Konami's attention to the fan support the series still has. NeoGAF user ReaperXL07 has created a topic for it right here on the site, so please lend your support if you are so inclined.

-Pyromaniac- · Dec 17, 2012

Well this thread is immediately depressing.

Wilsongt · Dec 17, 2012

...and now I am pissy that we didn't get Suikoden PSP. Thanks.

Karsticles · Dec 17, 2012

I'm going on a PS1 RPG binge. Suikoden I and II are up after Alundra.

Edit: Just read rule #1. I will post here after I finish the games. :-X

-Pyromaniac- · Dec 17, 2012

My favourite series though. I still stand that there are more AMAZING Suikoden games than there are final fantasy games.

1,2,3 are some of my favourite games of all time.

Dark Schala · Dec 17, 2012

Heh heh, I was always thinking of making one of these, but I didn't think the community would be big enough to merit one like the Sonic and PokeGAF threads because outside of those threads, the community threads drop off like a rock.

But at least there's finally a place to talk about the series for anyone looking into it now, so good on you for making it.

lunch · Dec 17, 2012

I've only played the first game as I don't own a PS2. I'm hoping III, IV, and V become PS2 Classics sometime soon, but II's the one I really want to play. What I've seen of the translation looks horrific though, and not in a charming way.

Yanksfan · Dec 17, 2012

-Pyromaniac- said:
My favourite series though. I still stand that there are more AMAZING Suikoden games than there are final fantasy games.

1,2,3 are some of my favourite games of all time.

I can't agree with this, but Suikoden is an amazing series itself.

I am a bit surprised at the OT rules, so I likely won't be checking back in. I hope people can enjoy Suikoden discussions though and either revisit the series or check it out for the first time.

lunch · Dec 17, 2012

Yanksfan said:
I am a bit surprised at the OT rules, so I likely won't be checking back in. I hope people can enjoy Suikoden discussions though and either revisit the series or check it out for the first time.

Same here. As somebody who's hoping that II-V become available sometime soon, I don't want to spoil myself.

-Pyromaniac- · Dec 17, 2012

lunch said:
I've only played the first game as I don't own a PS2. I'm hoping III, IV, and V become PS2 Classics sometime soon, but II's the one I really want to play. What I've seen of the translation looks horrific though, and not in a charming way.

you should definitely get on 2 and 3. And then 5.

...and then 4. Also I don't mind the thread rules, if spoilers had to be tagged, what is there to talk about without every post being a CIA document.

Zeranium · Dec 17, 2012

Nicely done, OP.
Fortunate enough to have played all the games and definitely one of my favorite series.

Really sad to see it just fade away.

rouken · Dec 17, 2012

suikoden 2 is the best rpg of the ps1 era. its the best in terms of story and gameplay. too bad it slowly falls apart after that.

TheBryanJZX90 · Dec 17, 2012

Suikoden took the mantle from Ogre Battle for creating a rich world through a series of games, hinting at a climactic conclusion, only to be doomed to obscurity or worse, retconning by a publisher left with an IP but without the creative minds who birthed the IP.

Hours Left · Dec 17, 2012

lunch said:
Same here. As somebody who's hoping that II-V become available sometime soon, I don't want to spoil myself.

Well, my thought is that the main games have been out for quite a while so I thought most spoilers would be fair game, as they are in the Final Fantasy Community thread.

But if people would rather have spoilers marked, I''m totally fine with that. I just don't want it to stifle conversation. It's a bit of a double edged sword.

vall03 · Dec 17, 2012

the recent Kiseki announcement reminds me of Suikoden a bit. If only we had an entry that took place in Harmonia... *sigh*

Dark Schala · Dec 17, 2012

Gunloc said:
Well, my thought is that the main games have been out for quite a while so I thought most spoilers would be fair game, as they are in the Final Fantasy Community thread.

But if people would rather have spoilers marked, I''m totally fine with that. I just don't want it to stifle conversation. It's a bit of a double edged sword.

Spoiler tags are also used in the FF community thread when merited, though. If people want to inquire about a game in the series here, they should feel like they can do so without running into significant game spoilers.

Even we spoil-tag things in SonicGAF when it's needed.

Vermillion · Dec 17, 2012

Should just spoiler major twists, endings, etc.

TheBryanJZX90 · Dec 17, 2012

lunch said:
Same here. As somebody who's hoping that II-V become available sometime soon, I don't want to spoil myself.

Of course your mileage may vary, but I inadvertently spoiled most of the hard-hitting parts of Suikoden I, II, and V. It didn't really detract from the games for me. The games actually do a good job of creating emotional impact not because certain events are unexpected, but because of the actual emotions behind the events themselves.

Hours Left · Dec 17, 2012

Dark Schala said:
Spoiler tags are also used in the FF community thread when merited, though. If people want to inquire about a game in the series here, they should feel like they can do so without running into significant game spoilers.

Even we spoil-tag things in SonicGAF when it's needed.

Alright, I'll update the OP.

I would hate for new fans to be put off.

lunch · Dec 17, 2012

-Pyromaniac- said:
you should definitely get on 2 and 3. And then 5.

...and then 4. Also I don't mind the thread rules, if spoilers had to be tagged, what is there to talk about without every post being a CIA document.

It's the first thing I plan to do when I become wildly wealthy.

Gunloc said:
Well, my thought is that the main games have been out for quite a while so I thought most spoilers would be fair game, as they are in the Final Fantasy Community thread.

But if people would rather have spoilers marked, I''m totally fine with that. I just don't want it to stifle conversation. It's a bit of a double edged sword.

I can certainly understand why you'd want them untagged, but whereas I feel that a lot of the general plot of Final Fantasy games have become general knowledge (I've never played X but I still know how it ends!), the same hasn't happened to the Suikoden games, and considering how difficult it is to acquire copies of the games outside of the first, the number of people who have played the entire series (and have the funds to play the entire series, for that matter) is significantly smaller.

TheBryanJZX90 said:
Of course your mileage may vary, but I inadvertently spoiled most of the hard-hitting parts of Suikoden I, II, and V. It didn't really detract from the games for me. The games actually do a good job of creating emotional impact not because certain events are unexpected, but because of the actual emotions behind the events themselves.

I suppose my original claim was disingenuous, as I spoiled all of the Phoenix Wright games and enjoyed them just fine, but I do feel like this is an instance where it might be better to err on the side of caution.

Gunloc said:
Alright, I'll update the OP.

I would hate for new fans to be put off.

Gracias.

mattiewheels · Dec 17, 2012

I'd pay a lot of spacebucks for III-V on Vita.

*Pours a 40 out for Genso Suikoden I+II US version*

Big Papa Husker · Dec 17, 2012

I am about 6 hours into Suikoden II and I'm loving it. Too bad I am just getting around to playing it after I have owned it for almost 10 years.

Dark Schala · Dec 17, 2012

Big Papa Husker said:
I am about 6 hours into Suikoden II and I'm loving it. Too bad I am just getting around to playing it after I have owned it for almost 10 years.

Did you decide to import a Suikoden 1 save file for it?

Because I... well... I kind of go nuts over the sidequest you can do in that game if you import Suikoden 1 save data. >.>

It's the stats. Those stats are to die for.

Edit: Gaaaah, I wanna fangirl over the stats.

Peter Bazooka · Dec 17, 2012

If you do import a Suikoden save make sure you named the MC something starting with M.

Edgeward · Dec 17, 2012

So this thread is basically a help/support center for all us Suiko fans, huh?

Anyway, I find it hard to play Suiko 2 without exploiting it via Matilda glitch. Too good. I never did finish Clive's quest myself. I hate speedrunning.

Just take it with you. · Dec 17, 2012

Edgeward said:
So this thread is basically a help/support center for all us Suiko fans, huh?

Anyway, I find it hard to play Suiko 2 without exploiting it via Matilda glitch. Too good. I never did finish Clive's quest myself. I hate speedrunning.

Same. I gamesharked a playthrough just so I could see that quest line.

Dark Schala · Dec 17, 2012

Edgeward said:
So this thread is basically a help/support center for all us Suiko fans, huh?

Anyway, I find it hard to play Suiko 2 without exploiting it via Matilda glitch. Too good. I never did finish Clive's quest myself. I hate speedrunning.

As much as I love experiencing everything there is to a Suikoden game so they end up being lengthy, I like speedrunning them too. It's not hard to get a 6-hr time for Suikoden I, for example, because that game is very short.

Suikoden II is one that I kind of have to struggle with because... I like experiencing everything in that game. But the Clive Quest pays off at the end so I like to speedrun it every once in a while.

Aha, speaking of the Matilda glitch, I guess I was a little sad when I discovered they took it out of the PSP version.

Hours Left · Dec 17, 2012

I've never done the Clive quest, or gotten the early ending in Suikoden II. I just can't bring myself to do it.

Also, for people wondering about the PSP ports of I & II, they actually aren't that great. Suikosource has a good article detailing the changes and (new) bugs/glitches introduced. (Note: The link contains spoilers.)

B.K. · Dec 17, 2012

Gunloc said:
I've never done the Clive quest, or gotten the early ending in Suikoden II. I just can't bring myself to do it.

And you call yourself a Suikoden fan. You should be ashamed.

Aeana · Dec 17, 2012

Suikoden 3 is awesome and I will fight you if you disagree with me.

Just saying.

Dark Schala · Dec 17, 2012

Aeana said:
Suikoden 3 is awesome and I will fight you if you disagree with me.

Just saying.

Is that right?

ReaperXL7 · Dec 17, 2012

Just a suggestion but if no one has any objections I think it could be a good idea to add information on the suikoden revival movement, I would link to it myself but I'm on my phone at work.

Obviously something like that really working is abit of a long shot, but even if all it did was get suikoden 2 on psn and both 1 and 2 on the euro store then it will have been worth it in my opinion.

2,3, and 5 are my favorite games in the series and this is easily on of my favorites in the long list of rpg franchises. Glad to see something like this went up and we can have a centralized place to discuss various aspects of the games indvidually and the series as a whole.

Aeana · Dec 17, 2012

Dark Schala said:
Is that right?

It is.

The soundtrack is awesome, too.

I'll fight you, Schala.

Hours Left · Dec 17, 2012

B.K. said:
And you call yourself a Suikoden fan. You should be ashamed.

I just can't rush playing Suikoden II. I love exploring every inch of the game, and the time limitations are so severe.

I do plan to do it one day though.

ReaperXL07 said:
Just a suggestion but if no one has any objections I think it could be a good idea to add information on the suikoden revival movement, I would link to it myself but I'm on my phone at work.

Obviously something like that really working is abit of a long shot, but even if all it did was get suikoden 2 on psn and both 1 and 2 on the euro store then it will have been worth it in my opinion.

I'll link the topic in the OP.

Edgeward · Dec 17, 2012

After each game, I told myself maybe next game we will finally see Harmonia. And then the next game came. And then the next. And then it was no more...

I also said the same thing about Yuber and Pesmerga. A life filled with disappointments.

Just take it with you. · Dec 17, 2012

Aeana said:
Suikoden 3 is awesome and I will fight you if you disagree with me.

Just saying.

You have my axe.

Aeana said:
The soundtrack is awesome, too.

*puts axe away*

Cornbread78 · Dec 17, 2012

5 is by far my favorite, followed by 3. I really wish the series wasn't burried, so we could finally enjoy 6... a VITA would would be the best gift ever, just saying....

Grisby · Dec 17, 2012

Great thread man. And super sad.

Flik and Viktor were my bros.

Aeana said:
Suikoden 3 is awesome and I will fight you if you disagree with me.

Just saying.

Chris is one of my favorite characters from the series. 3 was also the last Suikoden I completed. Would love for a PS3 HD release or something so I could try out the others.

Dark Schala · Dec 17, 2012

Aeana said:
It is.

The soundtrack is awesome, too.

I'll fight you, Schala.

Let's fight!

Pfft, I'll give you the arranged albums, but the OST proper isn't cohesive enough and some of the samples are bad!

GS3 has the TSS, the narrative, and ability to increase PC attributes and affinities to runes going for it. But man, I don't like the battle system (additionally, it's sooo slooowwww compared to the first two), the strategy scenarios, the dungeon designs, the castle, the world map, etc. Design-wise, it's got some good stuff and some strange stuff.

Aeana · Dec 17, 2012

Just take it with you. said:
You have my axe.

*puts axe away*

You really don't think so? Stupid Ducks, To the Closed Area, Searching for a Hero, etc. etc. soo good.

RPGCrazied · Dec 17, 2012

Always wonder if a new console Suikoden will ever come out, but I'm guessing no. Even an HD collection of 3 / 5 is probably pretty slim. I hope at least they can put them on the PS2 classics store though.

Love the games, except 4, that one sucked.

Hours Left · Dec 17, 2012

Dark Schala said:
Let's fight!

Pfft, I'll give you the arranged albums, but the OST proper isn't cohesive enough and some of the samples are bad!

GS3 has the TSS, the narrative, and ability to increase PC attributes and affinities to runes going for it. But man, I don't like the battle system (additionally, it's sooo slooowwww compared to the first two), the strategy scenarios, the dungeon designs, the castle, the world map, etc. Design-wise, it's got some good stuff and some strange stuff.

The battle system and "wars" of Suikoden III are so meh to me. Everything else is pretty awesome.

Just take it with you. · Dec 17, 2012

Aeana said:
You really don't think so? Stupid Ducks, To the Closed Area, Searching for a Hero, etc. etc. soo good.

I'll give you the boss theme (I forget the name) and the theme they reused in S5, but I thought S3 had the weakest OST, despite being my personal favorite Suikoden.

Karsticles · Dec 17, 2012

Gunloc said:
Well, my thought is that the main games have been out for quite a while so I thought most spoilers would be fair game, as they are in the Final Fantasy Community thread.

But if people would rather have spoilers marked, I''m totally fine with that. I just don't want it to stifle conversation. It's a bit of a double edged sword.

My feeling is that most of the traffic in this thread will be new folks asking questions or wanting to talk about their retro experience, and spoilers could conflict with that. I'm always in favor of being more spoiler-marked than not, personally. Anyone can take the time to type the tag if they can take the time to post.

Aeana said:
Suikoden 3 is awesome and I will fight you if you disagree with me.

Just saying.

I liked it, but I never played I or II, so my opinion is moot.

TheBryanJZX90 · Dec 17, 2012

Dark Schala said:
Let's fight!

Pfft, I'll give you the arranged albums, but the OST proper isn't cohesive enough and some of the samples are bad!

GS3 has the TSS, the narrative, and ability to increase PC attributes and affinities to runes going for it. But man, I don't like the battle system (additionally, it's sooo slooowwww compared to the first two), the strategy scenarios, the dungeon designs, the castle, the world map, etc. Design-wise, it's got some good stuff and some strange stuff.

Just the opening music alone puts S3 pretty dang high in my book!

Grisby · Dec 17, 2012

I bought the original on a whim. Thought the box art was horrible but I picked it up anyways. Edit- Maybe I thought it was awesome at the time actually in a weird fantasy sort of way.

Man, best random pick up ever.

Ha, here's a pic:

SatelliteOfLove · Dec 17, 2012

Suikoden was such a good series, but it is so, so hard to do iterative sequels in this media. It was fascinating that it survived as long as it did.

3's battle system shoulda stuck with the simple/fast/easy of I&II. It turned out simple/slow/easy which is a baaaaaaaaaad place.

I took out that of my copy of S1 when I bought it. I thought it looked like a bad Dune (movie) bit, lol.

Wilsongt · Dec 17, 2012

Aeana said:
It is.

The soundtrack is awesome, too.

I'll fight you, Schala.

You have my sword, bow, and axe.

Stupid Ducks.

Glittering Blade

Path Destroyer

Dark Schala · Dec 17, 2012

I think... GS1, Rhapsodia, GS5, and Tierkreis probably had the most cohesive soundtracks in the entire series, and thus they're my favourites. If I had to pick one, GS1's soundtrack would be my favourite of all.

Like, there are some standout tracks in the other games, but the soundtracks themselves aren't that cohesive, use some weird samples, or they have some real duds. I do have a very soft spot for GS4's soundtrack, and that's mostly for the battle themes, the map themes, and La Mer (well, the coba tracks in general).

Y2Kev · Dec 17, 2012

Suikoden 2 was absolutely incredible for me. Got 3 and splat, crap in my face. I'm your backup against Aeana, Dark Schala. The game looks so bad and performs so poorly that it was just too distracting. The S2 sprites are stunning.

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