Ninja Scooter
Member
Usage percentage would disagree with you. But that's just a pesky statistic so who knows?
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Russell "Why Not?" Westbrook Named NBA MVP
- Thread starter Tragicomedy
- Start date
Usage percentage would disagree with you. But that's just a pesky statistic so who knows?
MugiwaraCole
Member
He was the clear winner and anyone still arguing otherwise is a moron. Meh.
Congrats to the brodie.
Congrats to the brodie.
Please dirk got handed his at home after he got knocked out by an 8th seed in the first round. Dirk didn't play no Hakeem level talent either .
Also congrats to Westbrook. Arguing harden over him is just splitting hairs
ghostofsparta
Member
Poor Dirk, after 20 years in the league people still don't know his last name is pronounced with a V not a W
Velcro Fly
Member
all you have to do is ballhog and tank own individual defense to farm rebounds your team would have gotten anyway to impress people
this is like when in baseball when a guy wins like 23 games with a 4.00 ERA and wins the Cy Young because of the win total over a guy who wins less but has an ERA half that.
this is like when in baseball when a guy wins like 23 games with a 4.00 ERA and wins the Cy Young because of the win total over a guy who wins less but has an ERA half that.
OKC had to play him constantly. His teammates barely had more then 10 points. They missed more then he did.
He needs a reliable second shooter and second guard for him to rest
Advanced stats for advanced dorks
Ninja Scooter
Member
He's a ball dominant inefficient volume scorer. Was he this way because his teammates were mediocre? Or were his teammates mediocre because it's hard to play with a ball dominant inefficient volume scorer?
Uno Venova
Banned
Ninja Scooter
Member
Makes sense why he played so differently when he had top notch teammates like KD and Ibaka....oh wait.
So he's Kobe, you should love him.
That explains KD and Serge....
Ninja Scooter
Member
I love to watch him. I don't think he's the best player in the league. Much like I don't think Kobe could hold LeBron's jock.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Yeah no one gives a shit about 7th place teams in a conference though. For a superstar, you're supposed to achieve that. Maybe we can start handing out achievement trophies next year.
MugiwaraCole
Member
Numbers aren't gonna back you up here.
ryutaro's mama
Member
ryutaro's mama
Member
Ninja Scooter
Member
Yes they are. His efficiency and shooting rates were in line with his career numbers. Only thing that went up was volume. Look up some stats that matter sometime. Unless by "numbers" you mean that advanced metric known as "triple doublez!", the RBI of the basketball world.
MugiwaraCole
Member
Volume was what I was speaking on. Sorry if that was unclear.
This narrative that he always put up a million shots when KD was on the floor is beyond stupid.
Never before have I seen triple doubles be labeled some "oh, yawn" metric. Y'all are insane.
ryutaro's mama
Member
It's the minimizing tactic used by peeps with an agenda.
Monochromaticx
Member
Well deserved
Dude was great
Fuck harden
Dude was great
Fuck harden
agentofatlas
Member
That's what great about it actually. The fact that he can carry that volume, that load and still be in line with career efficiency numbers is great. Not many players can handle that usage rate.
As for his teammates, no they're not trash. Unfortunately the fit is not right. The team is built with Russ and Durant in mind. Durant provides most of the spacing in that team so when he left the spacing went to zero.
I'm interested in how Presti and OKC will build the team around Russ. The great thing for them is that they already have a working blueprint to copy in Houston. I think if you put Russ in that environment with that many shooters and playmakers, you will really get the best out of him.
That's why I'm excited we drafted DSJ. In the Mavs system, he is gonna thrive.
Ninja Scooter
Member
A triple double is a meaningless statistic. It's not even a metric. It tells you nothing about how well a player actually played.
If Russ averaged 8 rebounds per game instead of 10 would he magically be far less valuable? Triple Double is a narrative. Nothing more.
ryutaro's mama
Member
The thing that no one on this board was alive to see the last time it happened you don't "agree" with being rewarded.
K.
This is not a good analogy because (a) Russ's win total is historically low for an MVP (b) Russ's advanced stats are still really fucking good and (c) Russ's clutch stats this year were otherworldly. The debate over Russ's MVP candidacy is about whether the insanely high usage rate and playing style puts a clear ceiling on his team's potential, not about the quality of his individual performance.
For real. People act like LeBron fatigue is a thing, how about triple double fatigue. The shit he did is insane. Steven Adams letting Russ get to a rebound once in a while doesn't negate from it at all.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Harden was the first plyer EVER with 2000 points, 900 assists and 600 rebounds in a single season. He's also the first player to score 2000 points and assist on 2000 points in a single season. Why is one random grouping of stats less impressive than another? Because it doesn't have a catchy name? Because Ice Cube didn't rap about it?
ryutaro's mama
Member
But he didn't average 8 rebounds.He averaged a TRIPLE DOUBLE. Fucking Oscar Robertson's defining moment was averaging a Triple Double...it is literally what is mentioned most often in regards to his career..but hey fuck Russell.
It's now a meaningless stat.
Like I said, minimizing tactics.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Please quote where I have tried minimizing that effort by Harden like you with Russell.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Read above. It's literally meaningless. That someone got a "triple double" doesn't tell you anything. If one guy gets a 50/17/15 and another gets a 12/11/10, are they equal? Who had the better night? They both got "triple doubles" right? It's meaningless. It tells you nothing about a players' actual performance. It's to basketball what the RBI is to baseball.
I'm not minimizing it. Russ had an amazing season, but not because of the "triple double". If he averaged 9 rebounds a game his season wouldn't suddenly become less impressive to me.
This is even before you factor in stat padding such as passing on open shot to get an assist or having his teammates box out to get him a rebound.
ryutaro's mama
Member
So 2000/900/600 is meaningless cause who knows how he got that, right?
He could have shot the ball 2000 times...or got his own rebound countless times, or...
Like I said, agendas.
Like I said, I 'understand' why they did it. But how much did the team help Westbrook get those rebound numbers up? It was so obvious without his teammates letting him get those rebounds he would have had a much harder time getting that avg triple double. I'm not upset or anything by this outcome either. It's just my personal take on the matter.
ps: I won't even bring in the efficiency and winning arguments into this. That's a whole different can of worms
Ninja Scooter
Member
Yes. That was my point. These random groupings of stats are meaningless. It's like when ESPN busts out with some "LeBron is the first player to score 30 points on the 2nd Sunday of consecutive months since Shawn Marion...". It's all fluff.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
Deserved. Dude was a monstar this season
Jack The Nipper
Banned
I don't really agree, it takes effort and if he is putting in the effort its good. To score and run after balls is pretty good. Sure, he may have went for them here and there but half of it is always pure effort and rebounds, assists take skill and knowledge beyond the stats. Maybe take a step back and consider instead of sticking to one side so strongly.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Everything players do on the basketball court take skill and effort. That's a weak argument. If triple doubles are meaningful statistic, does a player who has a triple double always have a better game than a player who doesn't?
Player A: 28 points on 10-15 FG, 8 assists and 5 rebounds
Player B: 20 points on 7-25 FG, 11 assists and 10 rebounds.
Who had the better game?
ryutaro's mama
Member
That's BSPN being BSPN.
Averaging a Triple Double is the story that speaks for itself. In the case that you had two players have a season like they had, it becomes a coin toss. In this case, Russell won.
And for the record, good thing this was about the regular season cause JH was LVP in that last playoff game he was in.
Ninja Scooter
Member
A story is a narrative. Which is all I have been saying. A triple double is a narrative. It doesn't actually mean anything and it doesn't stand up to any real scrutiny.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
obviously the best player is a very subjective idea and there isn't really a true winner to that pedigree.
In my mind Durant is a better offensive player than Harden or WB and I can't clearly say who is the MVP in the whole league.
In truth, I'd really have to see them in person to have any idea who I felt was better.
Fenderputty
Banned
You're removing historical context even though your point makes sense. The triple double is like NBA's gold. It's really just yellow metal but we've given it value because it's pretty.
Regarding people saying he and the team played to inflate his stats, let's try to remember the recent cries for an NBA rules change because harden is master at cheesing his way to shoot three free throws.
Reality is that it's a fairly close call and arguments can be made both ways, but Russ finished the season in golden style
ryutaro's mama
Member
Depends on if those 3 extra dimes and 5 extra boards produced enough points to decide the game.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Not really. Player A produced more points and did it at a more efficient clip, regardless of the outcome.