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DF Retro: SoulCalibur - Beyond Arcade Perfect
- Thread starter LordOfLore
- Start date
grfunkulus
Banned
I'm sorry but almost nothing on the ps2 has aged nearly as well as the best DC stuff. That system was an overhyped disappointment visually. Stuff like Metroid and Halo instantly made the ps2 look like a toy when they came about a few years later. DC games have a certain elegance ps2 games just lacked. There were many quality titles, almost all of which have no reason to be played on a ps2
I don't know if I'd call it a disgrace but it was definitely the wrong place for it. I'm more talking about the visuals which are very decent and fairly close to the Dreamcast version.
Definitely disagree there. After having just produced an episode on MGS2, I was amazed at how beautifully it has aged. There's plenty of beautiful PS2 games out there that have aged very well. All four of the machines from that generation have standouts.
GinoFelino
Member
Sad but true
More truth
Now that the fg genre has moved past its jiggle obsession (sf5 notwithstanding) I'd love to see how SC reboot would fare
I kind of agree, as I also remember being (relatively) disappointed with SC2's graphics. Too much teal, purple, pink, etc. However, the quality of the game more than made up for it as it was amazing, and probably still stands as the best SoulCalibur game. Though I must admit to really never playing 3.
It is both weird and wonderful to have a completely unplayed (and by all accounts great) entry in one of my favorite series (I was
basically out of games at the time it was released). I do now own a secondhand copy I picked up a few years ago. I'd better hook up a PS2 and give it a go one of these days.
KillerMan91
Member
Or real 3D open world GTA on the go in 2005. That was pretty mindblowing back then for me.
sixteen-bit
Member
Awesome video, John.
Goddamn, SC1 is still my favorite one.
Goddamn, SC1 is still my favorite one.
fabricated backlash
Member
This video also highlights, how freaking ridiculous the current Soul Calibur Character Designs look. Like some bad parody of the original designs.
I'd be down for a HD rerelease of Soul Calibur or at the very least Soul Calibur 2, maybe even on Switch.
I'd be down for a HD rerelease of Soul Calibur or at the very least Soul Calibur 2, maybe even on Switch.
sixteen-bit
Member
Isn't SC1 on XBLA 1080p, btw? The video says it's 720p but I remember hearing otherwise.
Still, seeing Ridge Racers in 2004 was very memorable. A 60fps racer with visuals of that quality on a handheld seemed impossible. They did a nice job including specular highlights, reflections, decent geometry and great use of color. Still a handsome game today.
I think it's quite a bit beyond PS1/N64, though. Plenty of 60fps games and many with Dreamcast level visuals. It suffered from a lower color depth with obvious dithering and the lack of mip-maps (like PS2) meant that shimmering was an issue but at least everything was perspective correct and filtered with much higher resolution textures than N64.
Just a small number of great looking PSP games. Definitely a huge step over PS1/N64 in most areas, I'd say. It's like a portable Dreamcast with worse image quality (though at least all games were native resolution)
Yeah it's probably closer to DC than N64/PS1, but I think my disappointment stems from it being hyped as a portable PS2 when in reality it couldn't come close to matching the best of what the PS2 had to offer.
There weren't really many 60 fps games either, you had Ridge Racer 1 and 2 (which wasn't even released in the US), the Tekken and Soul Calibur ports, a handful of simple 2.5D games like Mega Man MHX/Powered Up and Prinny 1 and 2, the Wipeout games if you overclocked the CPU... and that was pretty much it. 60 fps was a staple of most 3D character action games on the PS2, so seeing games like Daxter, R&C and God of War struggle to run at 30 fps on the PSP was a huge disappointment for me.
Erebus
Member
Lol what? After the first year, PS2 had games like MGS2, SH2, GT3 and ICO that made DC look almost last-gen.
Weltall Zero
Member
Nope, if for no other reason, because Tekken 5 looks amazing and has some of the most beautiful stages in the entire franchise. Thanks, of course, to a rock solid art direction.
Apples and oranges. I'm sorry, what is exactly your argument there? That caring about art style means I'm obligated to only care about art style? "More important" =/= "the only factor". Should I use that fallacy against you? If "polycount" is the only thing you care about, then do you think Ghostbusters 2016 is a better game than Super Mario 3D Land?
I'm sorry, your argument is that since art style is subjective, the only thing that matters in making a game attractive is polycount? *letmelaughevenharder.gif*
So you think Tekken Tag has bad art direction but Tekken 5 has good art direction? Huh? It's not like Tekken 5 was that much of a departure.
The point is that tech matters a lot. You seem to be arguing that it doesn't matter at all.
30 fps Outrun = yuck.
Auron_Kale
Member
I remember when my older cousin first got both his Dreamcast (import) and SoulCalibur, I ended up putting in most of the work to unlock things. Good times.
I probably spent more time playing the quest mode than arcade overall.
Still really hold the original SoulCalibur as one of my favorite fighting games.
I probably spent more time playing the quest mode than arcade overall.
Still really hold the original SoulCalibur as one of my favorite fighting games.
mysteriousmage09
Member
Such a great game and jaw dropping experience seeing it the Dreamcast.
Renting a dreamcast from blockbuster video (.... holy man I'm old) back in 1999 and getting to play soul caliber and sonic adventure ahead of the systems official launch were some good times.
The DC really did blow me away , as someone who didn't own a PC until years later and Soul Caliber was one of the biggest reasons for that.
Dark10X... I'd love to see a breakdown like this for what I think WAS the best looking dreamcast game - Dead or Alive 2. There are so many ports and re-releases too , could make for some good times playing spot the difference. (Naomi arcade, Dreamcast, Japanese PS2 , DOA2 hardcore, DOA2 LE dreamcast and then years later DOA2 ultimate on the original XBOX which looked so good that the next gen sequel didn't at first feel like that big an improvement... and if you had a way to capture it, the 3DS port "dimensions" featured quite a bit of DOA2 content). Would be neat to get a nitty gritty look at team ninjas tech back during their heyday.
This was a great look back at soul caliber though.
The DC really did blow me away , as someone who didn't own a PC until years later and Soul Caliber was one of the biggest reasons for that.
Dark10X... I'd love to see a breakdown like this for what I think WAS the best looking dreamcast game - Dead or Alive 2. There are so many ports and re-releases too , could make for some good times playing spot the difference. (Naomi arcade, Dreamcast, Japanese PS2 , DOA2 hardcore, DOA2 LE dreamcast and then years later DOA2 ultimate on the original XBOX which looked so good that the next gen sequel didn't at first feel like that big an improvement... and if you had a way to capture it, the 3DS port "dimensions" featured quite a bit of DOA2 content). Would be neat to get a nitty gritty look at team ninjas tech back during their heyday.
This was a great look back at soul caliber though.
As John says in the video, Soul Calibur on the DC is one of those very rare Perfect games.
It is totally unimpeachable as an experience, there is nothing you can put a mark against it for, no rough edges to hang a complaint on.
Even coming from a PC gaming background, in fact coming directly from playing a lot of the original Unreal Tournament, Soul Calibur was utterly incredible.
It is totally unimpeachable as an experience, there is nothing you can put a mark against it for, no rough edges to hang a complaint on.
Even coming from a PC gaming background, in fact coming directly from playing a lot of the original Unreal Tournament, Soul Calibur was utterly incredible.
R_thanatos
Member
Just saw the vid. Awesome DF retro episode as usual.
I have to agree , Soul calibur is one of those perfect games.
I played maybe 1 year before even playing the adventure mode. I was that hooked on VS with friends.
I wish I could have a soul 6 ( UE4 , 60fps ). A shame because Soul5 did a lot of things right , it was a great fighting game , it just lacked "content".
As for Soul calibur , the legend must never die
I have to agree , Soul calibur is one of those perfect games.
I played maybe 1 year before even playing the adventure mode. I was that hooked on VS with friends.
I wish I could have a soul 6 ( UE4 , 60fps ). A shame because Soul5 did a lot of things right , it was a great fighting game , it just lacked "content".
As for Soul calibur , the legend must never die
Weltall Zero
Member
I was going to post some images of Moonlight Wilderness but then I remembered that according to you art direction is subjective and doesn't count at all. However I do feel the need to point out I never said TTT has "bad" art direction, merely average and pretty irregular. It's particularly forgivable since they were pretty obviously unfamiliar with the hardware (it was a launch title), which accounts for both tech expertise and artistic use of said tech. There are some other excellent examples of this here.
By the way, I love how you entirely cut my question about Ghostbusters 2016 and Mario 3D Land so that you don't have to answer it.
Then perhaps you need to improve your reading comprehension skills. I'm not wasting any more time on someone who can't or won't even read.
DemonCleaner
Member
a pleasure to watch. cheers John.
still can't believe that they achieved that in just 7 months.
still can't believe that they achieved that in just 7 months.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
God no.
Sapiens
Member
It was an awesome port. I played it a tonne.
I just realized I have no way to play the game these days. Damn.
Rolodzeo
Member
I hope Sega will do the right thing and (re)release Outrun C2C on Steam soon.
Hmm, I think you might be right on DOA2. Looking through the library, that very well could be the best looking game on the system. I know it was pushing high-poly characters (~8000 polygons in each fighter which was a LOT for a DC game) plus you had those massive stages. A real technical feat. Might have to look at it some time.
Yeah, I think that's right. I've found that the library is at least very steady when using an overclocked system (ie - 30fps games no longer exhibit dips) but more 60fps games would be nice.
It left me thinking about other nice looking 60fps games and I couldn't come up with many that you didn't mention but there is...
Dariusburst - an awesome 2.5D shooter with nice looking 60fps visuals
EXIT - relatively simple but it has a very stylish look and is very smooth
Loco-Roco - Strange engine in this one but it looked very nice at the time
Power Stone 1 and 2 - when overclocked, they are both solid 60
Virtua Tennis - I thought this was a nice approximation of the DC game and was 60
...and then the various 2D games.
...but yeah, it's a shame that more games didn't aim for high frame-rates on there. Would have preferred simplified visuals with higher frame-rates. I have to wonder if battery was ever a consideration as well.
Yeah I remember when I got the DC and a few games. Nothing really blew me away till I put this in the system. The silky smooth frame rate and amazing graphics had my jaw to the floor. Plus it was just fun as shit.. even button smasher friends could have a good time. The challenge mode was great to..
Soul Calibur and Sonic Adventure blew my mind like no other game has before or since. Except maybe Shenmue. The flagship titles of the Dreamcast were the last time I experienced the chill of next-gen graphics technology. I remember pouring over screenshots in magazines and watching video previews on repeat.
Heck, even Soul Blade impressed me back in the day. I had this one video review I'd watch over and over, and when I played the game... Man, that intro. That soundtrack.
Heck, even Soul Blade impressed me back in the day. I had this one video review I'd watch over and over, and when I played the game... Man, that intro. That soundtrack.
Diablohead
Member
Soul Calibur DC was an amazing game me and my school friends would play for months, I also unlocked everything and beat the story mode stuff which to this day I am really happy that I did all by myself.
What always makes me sad about Sonic is that it was shown running at 60fps prior to release and then the final game came out and...it was 30fps with slowdown.
Sapiens
Member
What always makes me sad about Sonic is that it was shown running at 60fps prior to release and then the final game came out and...it was 30fps with slowdown.
Any speculation on why? Was it that it was just running on faster dev hardware or did they make tradeoffs?
What always makes me sad about Sonic is that it was shown running at 60fps prior to release and then the final game came out and...it was 30fps with slowdown.
I had no idea. But to be fair, while the Dreamcast was the first time I became aware of the difference between 50Hz and 60Hz - Sonic looked jerky in 50Hz -, I knew little about framerate back then. For instance, you mentioned Soul Blade in your video, and how it was 30fps with occasional dips to make up for the great graphics, but I honestly never realized it back in the day. It was just a beautiful game to me, and that was that.
When the internet was nascent and I was just a young teenager in the 90s, performance and graphical fidelity generally went over my head, as I'm sure it did many people. It took the gigantic leap from the PS1 to the Dreamcast for me to go "wow" and buy a system based mostly on the graphics. That wow factor never quite worked ever since, although Rogue Leader on the Gamecube was mind-blowing, and, much like Soul Calibur, the graphics of that game truly stood the test of time. Between those games and games like Unreal Tournament on the PC, the late 90s/early 2000s truly were the age of groundbreaking visuals, for better or worse.
Speaking of, are you planning to do Rogue Leader at some point?
I'm fairly sure it's related to the rough development schedule. They only really had access to final dev hardware shortly before the game needed to be complete, I believe. Seems like a very demanding development. The game probably would have been better if it had been delayed by a year or so - a lot better. I know you can say that for many games but, in this case, they just didn't have enough time with the final hardware.
Somehow, I was always aware of frame-rate. I knew that the 2D side-scrollers I was playing on my PC were very jerky compared to console games. I also was so blown away by the fluidity of Daytona USA in arcade that I couldn't help but stare blankly at it for minutes at a time.I had no idea. But to be fair, while the Dreamcast was the first time I became aware of the difference between 50Hz and 60Hz - Sonic looked jerky in 50Hz -, I knew little about framerate back then. For instance, you mentioned Soul Blade in your video, and how it was 30fps with occasional dips to make up for the great graphics, but I honestly never realized it back in the day.
When the internet was nascent and I was just a young teenager in the 90s, performance and graphical fidelity generally went over my head, as I'm sure it did many people. It took the gigantic leap from the PS1 to the Dreamcast for me to go "wow" and buy a system based mostly on the graphics. That wow factor never quite worked ever since, although Rogue Leader on the Gamecube was mind-blowing, and, much like Soul Calibur, the graphics of that game truly stood the test of time. Between those games and games like Unreal Tournament on the PC, the late 90s/early 2000s truly were the age of groundbreaking visuals, for better or worse.
Speaking of, are you planning to do Rogue Leader at some point?
...and yeah, I'll probably do something on Rogue Leader.
Klart
Member
Weird thing, isn't it? Again, the minute I got a Dreamcast was the minute I suddenly became aware of performance. Another example was Ready 2 Rumble Boxing, which made me aware of performance discrepancies and, I think, resolution discrepancies between PAL 50Hz and NTSC 60Hz. PAL 50Hz looked a bit sharper - the beauty of 576i - and was 100% stable, whereas NTSC 60Hz felt overall snappier but had these framerate dips whenever you activated your Super and particle effects appeared on your gloves. I would always choose 60Hz over 50Hz for the smoothness of it, but that was the first time I went "wait, wut? 60Hz isn't better across the board?"
... How did you survive the N64-era though? It must have been hell for a framerate-aware boy like you lol.
Oh God YES... Don't overwork yourself though, we know DF Retro is essentially a one-man pet project. It's awesome that you're doing these at all, let alone with this level of quality.
Shin
Banned
Agreed, SC5 just looks freaky to me (artwork is great but the in-game models are just...)
I remember playing the hell out of SC in the arcade with Kilik.
Well...that was the period when I did a lot less console gaming and was more into the PC and 3D cards. Not that frame-rates were super high there, mind you, but they could be higher on average and it was still neat seeing the graphics card market change so rapidly.
Sapiens
Member
It's crazy how, for me, console gaming went so fast from mind blowing early 3D in 1995 (ridge racer, war hawk, virtua fighter 1 (I know, but it blew my mind still), sega rally, vf2, etc) to realizing all of the limitations all three of the consoles had by 1997.
The awful texture warping, bad draw distances, low colour depth and unpredictable frame rates were the norm - and the console games that rose above those problems were few.
Even with all the fine tuning Sony had done with development to squeeze every ounce out of that psx, it was still really hard to play the system when - even with software rendering - games like Jedi Knight looked great on a reasonable PC. Not to mention free online gaming.
PC gaming was a great escape from the consoles in that era. The DC could not come soon enough, but seeing all those early screen shots in 1998 made the wait so hard.
But look at how ugly Soul Calibur's characters are in my definitely not nitpicked screen capture.
Them painted on abs, lol
Its not painted on tho... its not flat in the game
Crankshaft
Member
I've seen people scoff at SC1 perfect scores, I don't think they understand what this game meant when it came out. Hopefully this video clears the confusion for them.
Were there any other "better than perfect" arcade ports before Soul Calibur? Nothing comes to mind. Before SC1, I think the most mind-blowing ports were some of Capcom CPS2-to-Saturn ports that used the 4MB RAM cart. That was also insane back then, but nothing like SC.
InfiniteCombo
Banned
This is all correct. I was a huge fighting game fan back in those days, and was always disappointed at the home console ports during gen 5, until Capcom busted out the 4M cart and we got amazing stuff you mentioned.
But, like John says in the video, SoulCalibur is truly a perfect game. Even when there's technically quite a bit of duplication, from a character selection standpoint. Almost the entire upper row consists of characters that are clones (to various degrees) of the characters on the bottom row:
Kilik <> Seung Mi Na
Nightmare <> Siegfried
Astaroth <> Rock Adams
Sophitia <> Lizardman
Mitsurugi <> Yoshimitsu (eh, this one might be reaching a bit)
And of course, Edge Master and Inferno, who are both in the top row.
But everything about it -- the soundtrack, the presentation, the characters, the lore it has built up to that point, the rich amount of single player content, and above all the fighting engine... It's truly the perfect game.
EDIT: I know I've said before that there's no such thing as a perfect game... But man, SoulCalibur definitely makes me reconsider that stance.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
They're shown in the video.
Big kudos if you do of any titles that really showed the GC strength's both do in amazing ways. I still feel nothing else ever has come close be it GC or WII based games not in overall package.
InfiniteCombo the characters you mentioned being copy characters is right. It's also not until SC2 where yoshimitsu and mitsurugi really feel a lot different.
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