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LukasTaves
Member
(03-21-2017, 09:02 PM)
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What's strange is that they bought them after LBP. I mean, the concept had an huge potential, but they failed on so much that even though I would definitely see if they could improve on the sequel I wouldn't have bought them.
Wozman23
Member
(03-21-2017, 09:24 PM)
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I understand the trepidation with the nebulous nature of Dreams, but think a lot of people are underestimating Mm's influence on Sony as a whole. They popularized the Play.Create.Share. movement which not only played a large role in their own games, but influenced others like ModNation Racers and LBP Karting. While it's not 100% due to Mm, we now even have a share button on our controllers.

They also find unique ways to use Sony tech. LBP's Move Add-On provided new experiences with motion controls. Those ideas transitioned to the use of their IP on the Vita version of LBP. Tearaway also made excellent use of camera and touchscreen technology. Tearaway Unfolded continued this with clever implementations of the PS4 Camera and the new features on the DS4 like the light bar and touch pad. I'd go as far as to say they're the only studio who have found innovative ways to use the new tech. If I'm Sony and I have new ideas for tech or controller design, I go to Mm and ask them what they think since their level of creativity is unrivaled.

Even though it didn't set the world on fire, discrediting the Tearaway franchise is foolish. It has lead to two great, critically acclaimed games.

To me they are Sony's version of Nintendo's first party, or Sony's Double Fine. They may not always strike gold, but their creativity and contributions are much needed.

Originally Posted by Archtreyz

I'm honestly amazed at what Sony allows their teams to produce. The Last Guardian was allowed to gestate forever. Gravity Rush 2 was still made. Knack and it's sequel was greenlit. Good on them.

It always gives me hope that, despite lackluster sales, we may still get stuff I enjoy, like a Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time sequel or Puppeteer 2.
gofreak
GAF's Bob Woodward
(03-21-2017, 09:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Chronospherics

I'm of the impression that provided a studio is profitable they get whatever creative freedoms they want.

When Dreams releases and can't recoupe the costs of that 6 year development time then I think Sony will have a closer look at the studio and insist on providing a little more creative guidance.

That's a big if, more than a when, I think.

The total operating cost of Media Molecule since 2012-2016 (which would cover Tearaway cost, and LBP3 cost - which MM did have to assign some resources to), has been less than 20m.

The threshold for a return on that kind of investment should be well within the reach of Dreams. Even if it was only a fraction as successful as LBP was - a million full-price copies ought to cover that kind of budget?

Even if Dreams failed completely, they've been profiting throughout this period, and it sounds like they have a strong set of retained earnings they could fall back on (to the tune of ~30m). Obviously the company's ongoing operation is at Sony's pleasure, and I'm sure there'd be some changes if Dreams did outright fail, but the financial situation seems like it could afford some leeway even in the face of that.
Fisty
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(03-21-2017, 09:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Wozman23

It always gives me hope that, despite lackluster sales, we may still get stuff I enjoy, like a Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time sequel or Puppeteer 2.

If we weren't in the dark timeline, Puppeteer would have been a launch title for PS4 and would be a huge franchise right now, and Knack would have been that weird game that came out reallllllly late in the PS3 cycle and bombed
Sangetsu-II
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(03-21-2017, 10:04 PM)
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From Danny Berbara Twitter:



Wozman23
Member
(03-21-2017, 10:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fisty

If we weren't in the dark timeline, Puppeteer would have been a launch title for PS4 and would be a huge franchise right now, and Knack would have been that weird game that came out reallllllly late in the PS3 cycle and bombed

That's how I wish it would have went down as well. Puppeteer had more engaging and challenging gameplay, better creativity, atmosphere and characters, great bosses, and was all around way more fun. At the very least, hopefully Knack 2 can turn around what to me was a very underwhelming game.
VanWinkle
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(03-21-2017, 10:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fisty

If we weren't in the dark timeline, Puppeteer would have been a launch title for PS4 and would be a huge franchise right now, and Knack would have been that weird game that came out reallllllly late in the PS3 cycle and bombed

Man. It really should have been on PS4. Amazing game.
Last edited by VanWinkle; 03-21-2017 at 10:16 PM.
Tumle
Junior Member
(03-21-2017, 10:17 PM)

Originally Posted by msdstc

I mean unfortunately that's business though. You can't just keep a company that's bleeding you or not putting out content. The evolution cut unfortunately made sense.



So they haven't made a full title in 6 years. Jeeeeeeeezzzz.

I've made my stance clear on the dreams thing. Yes I get that it's a "platform" for games. Things like this have existed forever. What you have to understand is that gamers for the most part aren't interested in making games, they're interested in playing them. LBP didn't sell because of the UGC or the ability to build your own levels... it sold because the sackboy was adorable and it was an easy game to pick up and play.

Not going to quote your avatar description.. but wow you have a lot of opinions on what "gamers want"..

If your assumption was true.. why does this industry even exist, if gamers didn't want to make games?
Hell half of Gaf are armchair developers, while the other half is actual developers..
wowbaggerBR
Member
(03-21-2017, 10:25 PM)
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Thats because you don't follow Poliphony's Digital shenanigans.
Crayon
(03-21-2017, 10:32 PM)
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Wasn't lbp a huge success? It would be dumb to cut mm.
Theslammer
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(03-21-2017, 10:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by jett

How's this about for getting flamed, Media Molecule is one of Sony's worst studios as far as I'm concerned. I haven't played Tearaway, but I didn't like LBP or LBP2 at all. Dreams looks like an actual non-game. I see no semblance of game design in any of the demonstrations they've showed. That game is a complete question mark to me, but it sure is pretty.

In terms of Sony axing Mm, Yoshida just seems to be biased towards certain developers. Studio Liverpool wasn't even given a chance to make something on PS4. Closing Cambridge after putting them to work on a VR-only title was just weird. And then you have JapanStudio as a whole, putting out one mediocre bomb after another, which have now been inexplicably allowed to develop a Knack sequel.

Holy crap, some of you guys need to realize that you're just making things up and simply pull back from the weird assumptions.

First, Knack sold well, provided a type of game that you don't see often right now that also goes beyond hardcore gamers (though its hard mode is more a , and isn't pushing a large budget. There's nothing remotely inexplicable about this.

A game not selling a lot doesn't mean it didn't sell well in relation to what it cost. Stuff like Gravity Rush 2 isn't expensive. This isn't Horizon: Zero Dawn/Uncharted 4 we're talking about here. GR2 or Last Guardian don't need to do Uncharted 4 numbers to recoup costs. A game's success doesn't hinge on whether or not it makes sales charts considering a lot more goes into a game and a cheap game that sells decently can net you more money than an expensive game that sells OK.
msdstc
Incredibly Naive
(03-21-2017, 10:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tumle

Not going to quote your avatar description.. but wow you have a lot of opinions on what "gamers want"..

If your assumption was true.. why does this industry even exist, if gamers didn't want to make games?
Hell half of Gaf are armchair developers, while the other half is actual developers..

As I've said a thousand times in this very thread, we are talking about mainstream appeal. The average gamer. Of course there are plenty of devs, but they are not the ones who have games charting month in and month out despite them contributing. If you're going to quote me please read the full thread first.
semiconscious
Member
(03-21-2017, 10:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sangetsu-II

well, this's the first time i've heard a description of what the 'game' part of dreams is all about (&, unfortunately, having seen what i've seen, i'm still tending to agree with that response :) )...
DieH@rd
Member
(03-21-2017, 10:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sangetsu-II

From Danny Berbara Twitter:




Aw yiss. They hinted long time ago that they will make a full on SP campaign.
sackninja
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(03-21-2017, 10:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by LukasTaves

What's strange is that they bought them after LBP. I mean, the concept had an huge potential, but they failed on so much that even though I would definitely see if they could improve on the sequel I wouldn't have bought them.

It is not like Littlebigplanet sold incredibly well and achieved a 96 average on metacritic. Plus as was previously posted the study is actually making a profit despite not releasing games for years.
Melchiah
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(03-21-2017, 10:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Chronospherics

Some Studios have received rougher treatment, however. Studio Liverpool for instance, produced Wipeout HD Fury for the PS3, one of the best rated games on the platform, then Wipeout 2048 on the Vita, again one of the best rated games on the platform.

Neither of those games were a huge success, despite critical acclaim, hardly the studios fault, yet they weren't given another chance. I imagine Sony looked at what Evolution were doing and figured they already had a considerable investment in the racing genre, and wanted to scale back. Perhaps Studio Liverpool had the opportunity to pitch something but failed to deliver anything Sony would want to produce.

I think the audience for WipEout had decreased last gen, and it didn't do the game any favors that it was only released digitally, when it wasn't that popular option. It was released on retail a year later, when Fury launched, but only in Europe. Those two issues, and perhaps the unforgiving nature of its gameplay, probably contributed on its lacking sales.

There was some concept art of the supposed PS4 installment floating around 3-4 years ago. So, it could be, that it was in the works.
Acquiescence
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(03-21-2017, 10:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fisty

If we weren't in the dark timeline, Puppeteer would have been a launch title for PS4 and would be a huge franchise right now, and Knack would have been that weird game that came out reallllllly late in the PS3 cycle and bombed

Please, stop. You're so right and it's making me upset.

Poor Kutaro. He deserved so much better.
msdstc
Incredibly Naive
(03-21-2017, 11:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by Acquiescence

Please, stop. You're so right and it's making me upset.

Poor Kutaro. He deserved so much better.

It was a fun game but definitely wouldn't be a huge franchise.
Acquiescence
Member
(03-21-2017, 11:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by msdstc

It was a fun game but definitely wouldn't be a huge franchise.

Maybe not, but by virtue of it being a PS4 launch title, we would've been guaranteed a sequel. And that'd be a better situation than what we've got now.
Blueingreen
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(03-22-2017, 12:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by Fisty

If we weren't in the dark timeline, Puppeteer would have been a launch title for PS4 and would be a huge franchise right now, and Knack would have been that weird game that came out reallllllly late in the PS3 cycle and bombed

I still think it's astonishing yet somewhat amusing that both the Puppeteer and GT6 were relegated to last gen because Sony obviously had high hopes fore Knack and Driveculb (before it was delayed). And when you look at their realese windows they sent them to the gallows with one game releasing in GTA 5 week and the other releasing post the PS4 launch. Baffling just baffling.
somecrazymember
Member
(03-22-2017, 12:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by jett

How's this about for getting flamed, Media Molecule is one of Sony's worst studios as far as I'm concerned. I haven't played Tearaway, but I didn't like LBP or LBP2 at all. Dreams looks like an actual non-game. I see no semblance of game design in any of the demonstrations they've showed. That game is a complete question mark to me, but it sure is pretty.

In terms of Sony axing Mm, Yoshida just seems to be biased towards certain developers. Studio Liverpool wasn't even given a chance to make something on PS4. Closing Cambridge after putting them to work on a VR-only title was just weird. And then you have JapanStudio as a whole, putting out one mediocre bomb after another, which have now been inexplicably allowed to develop a Knack sequel.

Lol, so much wrong in this post
mysteriousmage09
Member
(03-22-2017, 01:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by Sangetsu-II

From Danny Berbara Twitter:



Exciting!
Goldenroad
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(03-22-2017, 02:00 AM)
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Tearaway was a great campaign. I believe MM is capable of a great single player experience, but I also believe that almost any game in development for 4+ years has probably gone through some serious development hurdles. To be fair, Breath of The Wild had been in development for just as long, and turned out amazing. I think MM is the type of team that likes messing with new tech and seeing what sticks. They nailed it with the PS3 and Vita. My concern is that they've already shown the game with Move, which I think is less than cutting edge technology, and are probably trying to figure out how it all works in VR, which I am just not interested in right now. It could be a VR killer app, but as such, could sacrifice the TV experience in a way that would really limit sales. All speculation I know, but I'm curious to see what they announce next. I feel like the Public Beta starts during their E3 press conference, with the full game releasing Holiday 2017.
cookie-monster
Member
(03-22-2017, 12:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zukkoyaki

Many don't know this. MM develops a LOT of PlayStation's proprietary tech (along with Naughty Dog and London).

like what
backbreaker65
aka gluv65
(03-26-2017, 12:36 AM)
Well it looks like this guy got to see Dreams in all its glory and is hyped about it, don't know who he is or what he does, but Media Molecule retweeted him. Check his tweeter time line, he spent about 4 days with media molecule.

https://twitter.com/hyperdude53/stat...93159318835200
Danny Berbara‏ @hyperdude53

Day 1 @mediamolecule: Met so many amazing folks, worked with @kiockstantin and @Jenny__Lawrence, and played a lot of #DreamsPS4. <3

https://twitter.com/hyperdude53/stat...36424644112385

Danny Berbara‏ @hyperdude53
Oh god, #DreamsPS4. Where to do i begin. Only a *mere fraction* have been shown publically. The WORLD will go WILD when fully revealed.

Danny Berbara‏ @hyperdude53 6h6 hours ago
@Aratiatia1 Weve been given a small piece of the cake all along. Wait till we see the whole thing. :)
Last edited by backbreaker65; 03-26-2017 at 12:40 AM.
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
(03-26-2017, 12:44 AM)
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Originally Posted by backbreaker65

Well it looks like this guy got to see Dreams in all its glory and is hyped about it, don't know who he is or what he does, but Media Molecule retweeted him.

https://twitter.com/hyperdude53/stat...93159318835200
Danny Berbara‏ @hyperdude53

Day 1 @mediamolecule: Met so many amazing folks, worked with @kiockstantin and @Jenny__Lawrence, and played a lot of #DreamsPS4. <3

https://twitter.com/hyperdude53/stat...36424644112385

Danny Berbara‏ @hyperdude53
Oh god, #DreamsPS4. Where to do i begin. Only a *mere fraction* have been shown publically. The WORLD will go WILD when fully revealed.

Danny Berbara‏ @hyperdude53 6h6 hours ago
@Aratiatia1 Weve been given a small piece of the cake all along. Wait till we see the whole thing. :)

This is what I like to hear. I've always suspected we haven't seen anything close to Dream's final form. It has the potential to be mind blowing on all fronts. Easily my most anticipated game.
SarusGray
Member
(03-26-2017, 12:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by Acquiescence

Please, stop. You're so right and it's making me upset.

Poor Kutaro. He deserved so much better.

i'm crying.
KingdomHeartsFan
Member
(03-26-2017, 12:52 AM)
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That story tidbit getting me excited for the game.

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