• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Marvel's The Defenders *SPOILER THREAD* |OT| Super Friends - August 18th on Netflix

They really fucked up The Hand when they deviated from the ninja aspect of it. They should of kept it primarily an evil ninja organization like it was in DD S1.

The best interpretation of the Hand in Netflix was Nobu and that chase scene in DD's second season where you can barely see them on the rooftops, it should have been closer to that. For whatever reason, they just decided to have normal goons in plain clothes awkwardly try punching people with bullet proof skin and super strength.

Hopefully, we never see them again. The next big threat for the Defenders in season 2 needs to be street level.
 

Dreez

Member
This series was pretty damn bland...

Villains weren't menacing at all.

Never felt any real threat by The Hand. The members of it felt very trivial.

The earthquake or w/e didn't feel strong/scary at all.

The way ninjas were throwing themselves at Elektra to be killed in a test was hella dumb.

The dope part about the other shows were they kind of had a vibe to them that made it unique and gave it a soul (haven't seen IF though). Somebody should've figured out a vibe for the Defenders.
 

LordRaptor

Member
Now, we don't need to run the plot holes thing into the ground any further, I think the point is well proven.

No, because those aren't fucking plot holes, those are your criticisms of the plot. "Plot holes" isn't a synonym for "I didn't understand thing" or "I didn't like thing".

They outright fucking say the cave full of dragon bones is a load bearing cave full of dragon bones and it will make manhattan sink if its fucked about with - thats not a "plot hole", its fucking explicitly described.
 

Figboy79

Aftershock LA
I'm glad Stick told Luke he needs to learn how to fight. The actor is so stiff.

To be fair, how well would any of us do against ninjas, superpowered or otherwise?

I agree that Coulter isn't very good at fsighting, but I also think it's fair to point out that Luke Cage was never Spider-Man, Daredevil, or Iron Fist. He's not a fighter, and certainly not a trained one. It worked in Luke Cage that he'd just be plowing through people on the merits of his strength alone. I buy in Defenders that he hasn't gotten into anymore fights while in jail.

What I hope is that in Luke Cage season 2, they address his shortcomings as a fighter and at least had him take up boxing. It doesn't have to be martial arts. Not every superhero needs to be well versed in choreographed dance. I don't think it should be hard to come up a dynamic brawling style for Luke that looks good, but doesn't need the flourishes of a martial arts fight.
 
The best interpretation of the Hand in Netflix was Nobu and that chase scene in DD's second season where you can barely see them on the rooftops, it should have been closer to that. For whatever reason, they just decided to have normal goons in plain clothes awkwardly try punching people with bullet proof skin and super strength.

Hopefully, we never see them again. The next big threat for the Defenders in season 2 needs to be street level.

That reminds me of Nolan's league of shadows in BB then later deviation in TDKR
 

Zero-ELEC

Banned
This was probably the best of Marvel Netflix since the first half of Daredevil S2, thoroughly well put together and fun. They even managed to make Danny tolerable (though the dude still has psychological ptsd, they really should treat that).

I hate that they're obviously doing 'Born Again' in S3 of Daredevil, but I'm actually looking forward to Iron Fist S2 now.

Jessica's powers were kinda underutilized. She can practically fly and run faster than most humans!
 

Trago

Member
This was probably the best of Marvel Netflix since the first half of Daredevil S2, thoroughly well put together and fun. They even managed to make Danny tolerable (though the dude still has psychological ptsd, they really should treat that).

I hate that they're obviously doing 'Born Again' in S3 of Daredevil, but I'm actually looking forward to Iron Fist S2 now.

Jessica's powers were kinda underutilized. She can practically fly and run faster than most humans!

That was confirmed??

Born Again is my favorite DareDevil comic book run ever, that's pretty huge if true, although they'll probably not depict a lot of the heavy stuff from the comic.
 

Chronoja

Member
Just finished it. The show had way too many problems. I hated the shaky cam for every fight scene. The hallway scene was the best fight and we saw that in a trailer a while ago.

Pretty disappointed with this series.

Also Danny continues to be the worst Iron Fist. He gets his ass kicked in every scene. How was he chosen?

Just finished too. Nearly every fight that wasn't a Daredevil focused was a mess. The battle before they headed down the hole, needlessly chaotic and almost impossible to follow.

Half the show felt like people not telling other people stuff they knew. It was really frustrating.
 

rackham

Member
Just finished too. Nearly every fight that wasn't a Daredevil focused was a mess. The battle before they headed down the hole, needlessly chaotic and almost impossible to follow.

Half the show felt like people not telling other people stuff they knew. It was really frustrating.

Yeah the fight scenes were very very disappointing. The more I think about it, the more I disliked this series. I'm glad it was made but I can't tell people it was great.

I'd probably rate it a 6/10.
 

Onaco

Member
It's finishing right now. I've mainly been just glancing over and picking things up here and there. I found Iron First more interesting. Jesus Christ this was horrible.
 
That was confirmed??

Born Again is my favorite DareDevil comic book run ever, that's pretty huge if true, although they'll probably not depict a lot of the heavy stuff from the comic.


I haven't seen comfirmation but the end scene leans that way. It would probably have to be tweaked quite a bit.
 

Quick

Banned
Finished it last night. I thought it started great, but didn't quite stick the landing. Overall, I really enjoyed it and I'd say it was good.

Pros:
- Cast. Daredevil, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, and Iron Fist all coming together was awesome. Their first meeting together at the start of the hallway fight was perfect. The mini team-ups with Luke Cage and Iron Fist, and Jessica Jones and Daredevil were stuff I wish they did more of. Elektra was also neat, it sucks that she didn't have much interaction with the cast outside of just attacking them.

- Supporting cast. It was cool seeing them all in the same room, and not even interact with each other. Hammers home this "connected" universe (at least, on Netflix's level) that they all don't know each other, yet end up all in the same place. I do like the brief interactions with Karen, Trish, and Malcolm; as well as Misty, Colleen, and Claire. I also wish we got more of that. Particularly more Misty and Colleen.

- Episode count. I never had an issue with the 13 episodes for each of the four shows, but 8 was a good number. In some ways, I wish it got at least a 10-episode order, but ultimately 8 is a good number for it. Kept the story running without needing too many breaks.

- Cinematography. I think The Defenders share the same DP as Daredevil, and it really shows. The red/blue/yellow/green hues when the scene features a particular Defender was a nice touch. At the risk of making the other shows look too uniform to the point of blandness, I wish they'd apply a similar style to LC, JJ, and IF. Especially JJ.

- Story: Tight-knit and exciting. It was a bit rough towards the end, but it was a ton of fun to watch. Danny was written better here, and I can only hope lessons were learned for season 2 of Iron Fist. I particularly liked how Danny appears to have been greatly affected by Matt telling him (to relay to the others) to protect the city. I hope this becomes a major thing for Iron Fist. Though I also enjoyed that the entire cast basically shits on Danny anyway. Stick's jab was maybe the best yet.

Cons:

- The Hand. Maybe they're more interesting when you're fresh from watching each individual show, but I can't bring myself to be interested in them any more than "they're kind of a nuisance". The whole "cut off one finger, four more exist" is some weak shit lol. Take a cue from Hydra or something, damn.

- Alexandra. As much as I liked Sigourney Weaver's presence in the show, she just didn't cut it, even if she might have just been a diversion for Elektra to take over for her. Madame Gao suddenly being a lackey just didn't seem right.

- The Midland Financial building set (in general) and explosion. Just wanted to say how cheap the boardroom and hallway looked (still a badass fight though), same goes for the actual explosion. Small detail maybe. AoS-tier set design.

Overall:

It was a blast watching the show in two nights. It was great seeing the Defenders come together after two years of teasing with the four shows. I'm excited in the direction Iron Fist could take after the events of the show, particularly Matt's last words about protecting the city and his taking it to heart. Show ended a bit rough, but it was still a ton of fun. I'm hoping they do at least another 8-episode season. Maybe in two years

Also, it's crazy to think that Daredevil (April 2015) and Jessica Jones (November 2015) premiered two years ago. Feels like it's been longer.
 

Perineum

Member
It was good but not great.

It was a slight step up to Iron Fist, but still a huge step down from Daredevil and Luke Cage. I didn't mention Jessica Jones, because well just like her role in The Defenders it didn't matter honestly. She seems just so damn throwaway. Other than her saving them at the end in the elevator she was a giant ass waste of space and screen time that contributed nothing.

Iron fist, Danny, etc is just a giant whiny bitch. Hate his character beyond measure yet I used to love the comics growing up. Maybe young me couldn't see how big of a whiner he was?

At this point I'll check out Jessica season 2 only for David Tenant, but Iron Fist season 2 I'm out. Rest is all good with me.
 
Maybe I'm just stupid, but I took the cave under the tower to be something of a backdoor into Kun Lun (hence why there was a dead dragon there). Was Matt not in bed recovering in Kun Lun at the end? How did he get out of there if not into another place besides New York?
 

caliph95

Member
It was good but not great.

It was a slight step up to Iron Fist, but still a huge step down from Daredevil and Luke Cage. I didn't mention Jessica Jones, because well just like her role in The Defenders it didn't matter honestly. She seems just so damn throwaway. Other than her saving them at the end in the elevator she was a giant ass waste of space and screen time that contributed nothing.

Iron fist, Danny, etc is just a giant whiny bitch. Hate his character beyond measure yet I used to love the comics growing up. Maybe young me couldn't see how big of a whiner he was?

At this point I'll check out Jessica season 2 only for David Tenant, but Iron Fist season 2 I'm out. Rest is all good with me.
Nah it's his show character

Comic danny is a lovable goof

Tv Danny suck
 

Quick

Banned
Maybe I'm just stupid, but I took the cave under the tower to be something of a backdoor into Kun Lun (hence why there was a dead dragon there). Was Matt not in bed recovering in Kun Lun at the end? How did he get out of there if not into another place besides New York?

I thought the same until the start of the next episode. As for how Matt got out of the rubble, Trish did bring up the series of illegal excavation by Midland Circle/The Hand at the end on her show. I figured he got out or was dragged out from one of the tunnels The Hand dug out.

Edit: But who knows right now.
 
Maybe I'm just stupid, but I took the cave under the tower to be something of a backdoor into Kun Lun (hence why there was a dead dragon there). Was Matt not in bed recovering in Kun Lun at the end? How did he get out of there if not into another place besides New York?
I thought the same thing.

The Hand (Madam Goa, said it I think) stated goal was that they wanted to get back to Kun Lun, like they seemed desperate to get back there (either because their immortality goo was from there, or because they just want to go home). From that I assumed the "Door" was like a portal to Kun Lun (since the entrance Iron Fist tried to use was "closed" at the end of his show and the whole city was gone, kinda like the Island from LOST).

But then after Danny gets in there it's a Dragon skeleton, and the badguys want to mine it and collapse the city on it when they're done, so I guess they didn't want to get back there?

I can only assume there still is a portal to Kun Lun down there since DD is still alive, but the Hand sounded like they really wanted to get back there, so why were they so eager to collapse the city on the mine?

Guess we'll have to wait until Iron First season 2 or DD season 3 to find out. :/
 

rackham

Member
In his series or Defenders? I haven't finished either but he's pretty tanky in both, it took those dril bullets and the pee fist to hurt him

This is the Defenders thread so take a guess


Forgot to mention how disappointing it was that we didn't see Iron Fist in a costume or Luke Cage in a yellow shirt next to the team

Would have been cool to have them looking like a team

Guess there's always season 2.

The Punisher looks boring as fuck. I wish they didn't bother making that show.
 
Iron Fist is tonally all wrong.

Code:
[IMG]http://comicsalliance.com/files/2016/02/pmif1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://i.pinimg.com/564x/11/50/fb/1150fb57c3e31dfede4df6a12078a373.jpg[/IMG]

Comics Danny is a dork, but he's really likeable. Finn Jones was insufferable.

christ... this depressed me even more on how much they fucked up this character from the casting to the writing.
 

Applebite

Member
I liked it a lot but it also has a lot of problems. I really hope this is the last of The Hand, because it seriously weighed these shows down. Less time spent with goofy evil organizations, more time with the titular characters interacting, please. Maybe the problem was that the plot was essentially picking up the plot from Iron Fist, which is the worst of all the shows.

I think it ended pretty well. Danny is left in a much better place and JJ and Luke could go anywhere from there. Not so sure about Daredevil. I have a fear the show will only get more ridiculous from here, despite the fact that it was at its best when it was the most grounded. We'll see. I still have a lot of love for these Marvel Netflix shows.
 

Shy

Member
Iron Fist is tonally all wrong.

Code:
[IMG]http://comicsalliance.com/files/2016/02/pmif1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://i.pinimg.com/564x/11/50/fb/1150fb57c3e31dfede4df6a12078a373.jpg[/IMG]

Comics Danny is a dork, but he's really likeable. Finn Jones was insufferable.
THIS ! THIS IS WHAT I WANTED.

WHY DIDN'T WE GET THIS. ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH
 
THIS ! THIS IS WHAT I WANTED.

WHY DIDN'T WE GET THIS. ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH

Beacuse that is a Danny that's literally years and years past the initial granting of IF and fighting with the support of friends and allies. Both those panels are so far down the line from every characters origin that they've developed and regressed and developed only-Slayven-knows how many times.
 

Shy

Member
Beacuse that is a Danny that's literally years and years past the initial granting of IF and fighting with the support of friends and allies. Both those panels are so far down the line from every characters origin that they've developed and regressed and developed only-Slayven-knows how many times.
I get that.

But, i think they could have started to move in that direction in Defenders. Rather than keeping him so po-faced as he was in his own show.
It really feels like he's had no development for two series now.
 
The best interpretation of the Hand in Netflix was Nobu and that chase scene in DD's second season where you can barely see them on the rooftops, it should have been closer to that. For whatever reason, they just decided to have normal goons in plain clothes awkwardly try punching people with bullet proof skin and super strength.

Hopefully, we never see them again. The next big threat for the Defenders in season 2 needs to be street level.
I always take it that all the competent Ninjas were killed in DD S1 and S2 and off scene leading them to be so weak and desperate in IF and Defenders.
 
I get that.

But, i think they could have started to move in that direction in Defenders. Rather than keeping him so po-faced as he was in his own show.
It really feels like he's had no development for two series now.

I think we did see some progress in that regard actually.

We saw Danny get checked early on by Luke and actually take Luke's words into account and adjust his approach as a result. We saw elements of the light hearted Danny in the Chinese Restaurant bottle episode where everyone else is angry, snarky, or brooding while he's kicking back and eating and talking about chi like it's not out of the ordinary at all. And by the end we see that Matt's sacrifice and his drive to protect the city has had a meaningful effect on Danny.

He's got a ways to go certainly but there's been some development laid. There isn't a ton of space in such a compact yet high stakes plotline (the whole of The Defenders takes place in less than a business week iirc).

The rest lays in the hands of the IF S2 Showrunner.
 
I think we did see some progress in that regard actually.

We saw Danny get checked early on by Luke and actually take Luke's words into account and adjust his approach as a result. We saw elements of the light hearted Danny in the Chinese Restaurant bottle episode where everyone else is angry, snarky, or brooding while he's kicking back and eating and talking about chi like it's not out of the ordinary at all. And by the end we see that Matt's sacrifice and his drive to protect the city has had a meaningful effect on Danny.

He's got a ways to go certainly but there's been some development laid. T

This is not development. This is just a continuation of the thing of him having a different personality in every episode like in his own series.

"I'm a chill monk!"
"I'm a rebellious young guy!"
"I'm a fun goofball!"
"ARR I HAVE ANGER ISSUES"

Around and around and around.
 
This is not development. This is just a continuation of the thing of him having a different personality in every episode like in his own series.

"I'm a chill monk!"
"I'm a rebellious young guy!"
"I'm a fun goofball!"
"ARR I HAVE ANGER ISSUES"

Around and around and around.

He didn't have a different personality in every episode of IF. He was an emotionally damaged and stunted kid with too much power and all the wrong lessons. I touched on this previously in one of the IF threads.

Basically. More specifically
it's emotional trauma compounded by the nature of K'un Lun's training which both demands the bottling of emotions while being massively abusive. Danny should, by all rights, be extremely volatile as a result. My theory is this is a major reason why Danny isn't "interesting" as expressed by many viewers. His worldview is the only way he knows to cope. In K'un Lun, this is just the way things are and everyone knows it. Coming back to the US is jarring for him in a more subtle aspect than what many viewers expect. They expect him to be socially awkward in conventional ways like language and colloquiallisms but he was old enough to have a pretty firm grasp on those things when the crash happened. Instead it's the complexity of people's motivations and emotions as well as how incongruous their words and actions are with those motivations and emotions. He can't parse this at all and due to the nature of K'un Lun's training that causes him to go from 0 to a very violent 100 at seemingly random times. He's trying to navigate a complex social environment with a set of tools that aren't just lacking but entirely innappropriate for the world he's entered. No matter which path he tries to take (altruistic good or physical enforcement) it's too blunt and broad and backfires in every situation that isn't literally him vs ultra evil bad guys flat out attacking.

Danny Rand in IF S1 is bewildered and woefully unprepared for the world he's stepped into. He's also still woefully unprepared for the role he was given in the world he came from. But with Colleen and now a few other allies he'll learn more quickly and be less terrible at everything (but still be the worst IF ever).
 

Disgraced

Member
As someone who didn't watch Iron Fist, a problem I have with Danny is that he never exhibits the same level of heroism as the other Defenders do. As the only costume and the "leader" Daredevil demonstrates it the most and is the most moving right off the bat with his speech to the kid in the wheelchair all the way to his "demise" trying to win back Elektra.

Luke comes in a close second but is just as affecting. Luke Fucking Cage. I don't need to name his moments. (Also when he's on the screen just SEX. SEX every second. SEX. Sex. Sex. Sex. Sex. That has nothing to do with heroism, but still, SEX.)

Jessica is reluctant (and borderline anti-heroic) but just like Trish says, when it comes down to it, she goes out of her way for that family and she's there.

Danny just talks about his fucking self, and HIS FIGHT. And why it's HIS RESPONSIBILITY, he says while not really helping anyone and ending up a literal liability. If I recall correctly, the one person he helps is Misty at the end. Presumably providing her with her robot arm. FUCK YES!... That's his one truly heroic deed.

And that is one of my biggest takeaways from this show—that next time we see Misty she will have a robot arm—FUCK YEAH!
 

hobozero

Member
No, because those aren't fucking plot holes, those are your criticisms of the plot. "Plot holes" isn't a synonym for "I didn't understand thing" or "I didn't like thing".

They outright fucking say the cave full of dragon bones is a load bearing cave full of dragon bones and it will make manhattan sink if its fucked about with - thats not a "plot hole", its fucking explicitly described.

Dude, you sound so angry. Center your chi.

u7wINHP.jpg
 
I didn't care for this series at all, and I loved DD and liked Luke Cage and Jessica Jones. Didn't watch Ironfist.


The Hand was SO underwhelming as the villain group. Gao was their only saving grace, other than that they were just bland and generic. Muramaki was not intimidating at all and was basically a mook with a name. Bakuto's actor was just horrible. Love Sigourney Weaver but she was phoning it in. Sowande was...fine I guess?

Why was Alexandra so attached to Elektra?

What makes the Black Sky so integral to the hand's success? Elektra is strong and all but really this seemed like a lot of trouble just to have one powerful assassin.

Honestly I enjoyed the CW superhero crossovers more than this.
 
Having finished the series and had a day or two to think about it. I think this an ok series. It had some really good performances and I do think the actors were giving it their all. I think the sound track when you did hear it was great. However like any Marvel Netflix series the same issues keep propping up. Pacing, poor fight scenes and dialogue. This is a running trend in the recent series.

I'm going to put a lot of blame for this on the direction and producers. As a director you need to have a vision. A dream of this perfect film or story you want to tell. You're job as a director is to make that happen with the skills and your producers job is to help as much as they can to achive that.

I refuse to believe anyone's vision for Defenders was what we got. Just episodes of dull talking, over explaining what we already know, contrived and frivolous character dialogue. Bland villains and for the most part poorly shot fight scenes. Also the reason I definitely lump the producers in here is the story.

So the whole point of the story is that the Hand need to open a door sealed by a previous Iron Fist. What's inside is what helps them come back from the dead.
However all that is there is a bunch of dragon bones, that we discover make the substance. So why did the Iron Fist seal it? I mean would they have even known this place existed if the Iron Fist hadn't had sealed it away. Maybe it was to stop Heretics, but that also doesn't make sense when you think about it. It would have made much more sense if the Hand in their desperation to obtain more substance fail to understand, that the Iron Fist wasn't sealing them out, it was sealing something in.

I do in all believe that the above is what they originally intended. Then someone changed it. As a producer is almost always a rep for them studio, I think they must have been the ones to decide it.
The story in this show also craps over previous versions of the Hand and what we know about the resurrection pods. Didn't Stick say the pods fell from the sky and this is what started all this? Didn't DDS2 show people hooked up the pods, being drained fro some reason?
Why would they make all these changes? For the one thing I noticed a lot in this show. To save money. A lot of this show looked cheap and there are a few places that really show it.

The fight scenes. Aside from the final battle in the last episode, I would say that this show had some of the most poorly shot fight scenes so far. Which sucks, because you can see there are some really good choreographed fight scene in this. The
Hallway fight through the building, that should have been amazing,
but the camera was all over the place. It should have been The Raid meets Marvel.
DD fighting Elektra while the others fight forward to the elevators.
It should have felt brutal and really highlight how powerful the heros really are. What I really wanted was a cool wide shots, observing the fighting, really allowing us to get a good view of all the good shit.

Then there was the CGI and oh boy is it apparent how little a budget they had in the final episode. I couldn't believe the
falling man from the elevator
part. I actually laughed it was so awful. There was also some practical effects that looked off, like walls turning into rubber. This series felt cheaper than all the others and I want to know why.

The other issues go back to plot and unfortunately the much loathed Iron Fist series. They made mistakes with Iron Fist. Mistakes that they should have addressed in Defenders because making him the main focus of the story...

In IFS1 I said that his character came off as an angsty teenager who hasn't earned this hero status and it feels this was in Defenders. I still like him more in this than that, but the bar is set pretty low. Iron Fist is meant to be a master warrior with almost complete control of his emotions.He should have been more like Batman that anyone else. However in IFS1 he comes off more like a fish out of water for the whole series. I also didn't buy his angst coming from his parents death. Very traumatic, but I just didn't believe it. In IFS1 I would rather we'd have seen some of his time at Kun Lun. Considering it's brought up as much as it is, it would have actually made some of his dialogue and character less cringe inducing if we actually had some reference. I also think the Elders of Kun Lun should have authorised him to go, to find inner peace. That meant that when it's discovered Kun Lun has been attacked and quite possibly destroyed, it would have made the impact all that much more brutal to us and would have allowed for this devil may care attitude he needed in Defenders. That walk into the Hands officer with the big throw down speech should have been bad ass. Instead it comes off as whiny even before Weaver treats him like a child.
On that note Weaver was treated like a bad ass mofo yet she doesn't fight once. Also all her goons in that conference room scene were for some reason ready to go. Does no one do business at this business, are they all goons just ready to go? She should have beat him down and left him to be subdued by the goons. Then the Defenders arrive and kick some ass.
Back on track, this would have made him
unlocking the door
much more believable, if Elektra told him, along with brutal detail and imagery of how she slaughtered the elders of Kun Lun, including characters we now know about. It would make him angry and reckless.

Finally there was attempts but no where near enough symmetry between the Hand and the Defenders. Bakuto should have been dead as per the end of Iron Fist. Him being alive creates another plot hole, considering Elektra should be up by this point. It should have been the 4 members of the Hand fighting the 4 members of the Defenders.

I could go on more, but the majority of my points have been covered. I would giver it a 6/10. This is above IF, but everything else is above this one.
 

hobozero

Member
Putting Frank Castle on a team like this is grossly misunderstanding how horrible that character is.

Just think, if not for lawyers we'd be ready for a Thunderbolts series:


We've got Ross, Castle, Deadpool, Electra, and Ghost Rider. Plus Venom is coming.

Tell me you wouldn't want William Hurt, Tom Hardy, and Ryan Reynolds in one movie.

Edit: Also Nic Cage, not the AoS guy.
 

SpaceWolf

Banned
The worst thing about The Defenders is how the ending now prevents Daredevil from showing up in Infinity War or Avengers 4.

He was obviously going to totally make an appearance in those films, otherwise.
 

LaNaranja

Member
Just finished it. Show peaks at the half way point during the restaurant fight and never reaches those same heights. A damn shame because there are a lot of really cool elements but the whole thing ends up feeling like less than the sum of its parts. Also the Hand has never once been interesting in any of the Netflix shows and in this one they come across as being completely incompetent. Hopefully this is the last time we see any of them. If Defenders Season 2 is Shadowland I am going to be pissed.

Also I am really bummed we didn't get a Tony Stark cameo at the end with him telling Misty he would build her an arm as a thank you for her service.
 
Also I am really bummed we didn't get a Tony Stark cameo at the end with him telling Misty he would build her an arm as a thank you for her service.

So much stuff has happened in NY based on these 5 shows that there's really no reason for the Avengers or Spiderman not to show up already. Hell, even Dr. Strange should have collided by now.

As much as I want the Netflix shows to coexist with the MCU, they really don't. They're just expanded universe, like how it used to be with Star Wars. They can reflect what the main franchise is doing, but ultimately it's still a one way mirror. The only thing that NF does better is that it at least has its own cohesive universe within another.
 

richiek

steals Justin Bieber DVDs
Finished the series. I liked the interactions with the characters and Danny being actually a likable character is miracle after Iron Fist S1. But the Hand stuff being the main bad guys really drags this and the whole Netflix shows down. The shows have the whole grim n gritty in New York street level thing to contrast to the rest of the MCU. But the whole mystical ninja shit just makes it a tonal mess. Now that the Hand seem to be gone for good, we can leave all that behind. And that finale with Matt's sacrifice handwaved away gives me Batman v Superman vibes... ugh. It's kinda disappointing consider how well Daredevil S1 started.

As much as I want the Netflix shows to coexist with the MCU, they really don't. They're just expanded universe, like how it used to be with Star Wars. They can reflect what the main franchise is doing, but ultimately it's still a one way mirror. The only thing that NF does better is that it at least has its own cohesive universe within another.

This. Ever since Kevin Feige and Marvel Studios split from Marvel to Disney, the films and TV shows will never cross over again.
 

hobozero

Member
I think the one thing we can agree on is that the next Netflix series NEEDS to be about the Taskmaster Institute, because I have to know:

Where do these evil organizations keep getting all these freaking henchmen???

IFS1 establishes the Hand as giving kung fu scholarships (are those really a thing?) to young kids and indoctrinating them as a cult - but the only henchmen I ever see outside of the diverse Midland Circle Boardroom fight are middle-aged dudes in black jackets.

This is super compelling to me. Who are all these middle age dudes? Why are they working for the Hand? Are they, like, the B Team who only get used when there are no Ninjas left? If your evil org has ninjas, do you need regular henchmen as backup? Are they outsourced? Did the ninja's lose their jobs to outsourced hench labor?

When will Marvel tell the henchperson's story??

task-o.gif
 
And that finale with Matt's sacrifice handwaved away gives me Batman v Superman vibes... ugh. It's kinda disappointing consider how well Daredevil S1 started.

I think it was consistent for Matt though. He didn't sacrifice for the team, but he did know that he wasn't going to leave again without her. The problem was that here was no suspense because we know he wasn't in jeopardy. They didn't play with expectations and hell, they couldn't even explain away why nobody had an escape plan. Red shirts everywhere, too. Just baffling.

richiek said:
This. Ever since Kevin Feige and Marvel Studios split from Marvel to Disney, the films and TV shows will never cross over again.

Pretty much telling when as far as I can tell they never even updated the MCU aspect for Ultron or Civil War. About the only thing the NF shows do is block the films from recasting them. (They could, but the loss of credibility would put them on the same level as DC, and cripple the NF contract.)

There's nothing in it for Feige to say anything but "maybe later." Keeps credibility high and gives them the option to actually use those actors later if they want. If the NF deal ends, or they stop using some of those characters, well, nothing to stop them from opting someone in.
 

watership

Member
I think we did see some progress in that regard actually.

We saw Danny get checked early on by Luke and actually take Luke's words into account and adjust his approach as a result. We saw elements of the light hearted Danny in the Chinese Restaurant bottle episode where everyone else is angry, snarky, or brooding while he's kicking back and eating and talking about chi like it's not out of the ordinary at all. And by the end we see that Matt's sacrifice and his drive to protect the city has had a meaningful effect on Danny.

He's got a ways to go certainly but there's been some development laid. There isn't a ton of space in such a compact yet high stakes plotline (the whole of The Defenders takes place in less than a business week iirc).

The rest lays in the hands of the IF S2 Showrunner.

Danny was written poorly in the last half of the Defenders frankly, I honestly was screaming at the tv at one point asking "DO YOU WANT US TO HATE HIM?"

Finn Jones is not the issue honestly, there are moments in both series where he was a fantastic Danny Rand. Netflix is just blowing it. I feel the actor is getting shit for bad writing/directing.
 
Iron Fist is tonally all wrong.

Code:
[IMG]http://comicsalliance.com/files/2016/02/pmif1.jpg[IMG]
[IMG]https://i.pinimg.com/564x/11/50/fb/1150fb57c3e31dfede4df6a12078a373.jpg[/IMG]

Comics Danny is a dork, but he's really likeable. Finn Jones was insufferable.

Danny and Misty get married???? Ohhhh boy... the gf won't like this...
 
"We have to blow up the building because they keep coming back"

Well no, just ripping off their heads should do it. But now you have buried two of them in a hole with dragon bones.

Not to mention Daredevil and Black Sky managed to get out so...
 
Top Bottom