• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Alien: Covenant |SPOILER THREAD| With more Christian subtext than BvS

Roders5

Iwata een bom zal droppen
What? You do realize Ridley Scott is 80 and doesn't give a fuck if his movies are universally liked. He's making movies he wants to make before he kicks the bucket. I wish more directors were like him to be honest.

I'll just throw that 'what' right back at you. If Ridley made a 2 hour video of him taking a dump you'd like it because it's what he wanted to make? What a silly argument, people payed to see a movie and are rightly disappointed when it's poorly made.

Also, just like Prometheus, this film will gain a strong cult following. I mean, look at how often this thread gets bumped. Whatever you think of the film, people cant stop thinking about it, just like Prometheus. Scott must've done something right.

Strong cult following? I don't know where you go on the internet but Prometheus is nothing but the butt of jokes every time I see it mentioned. These threads get so big because people wanted so badly to love these movies but instead we ended up with a monumental waste of time and that makes people vent.

I'll take movies like Prometheus and Covenant over most other sci-fi garbage we've been getting lately.

Up to you but I'll always take good movies that are well made and don't expect me watch the adventures of the dumbest people in the universe for 2 hours.
 

Jinroh

Member
Strange that there's not a single mention of the original movie during the dinner scene.
All those quarantine procedures to keep Kane out of the ship but when he wakes up they totally forget about it,no tests,no quarantine,nothing..let's go eat dinner together yay!
You kind of missed one of the most important point of the movie. Ash did it on purpose. He knew exactly what was happening.
 

Kazuhira

Member
You kind of missed one of the most important point of the movie. Ash did it on purpose. He knew exactly what was happening.

I'm talking about how the rest of the crew didn't say a word about it,especially Ripley who was the most vocal against the idea of bringing Kane back on board.
They just went along with it as if nothing happened and started eating dinner with a man who was in direct contact with an alien lifeform.
Ash could've lied to them by saying that he ran some tests and there was nothing wrong about him but that's all conjecture.
 

JB1981

Member
I'm talking about how the rest of the crew didn't say a word about it,especially Ripley who was the most vocal against the idea of bringing Kane back on board.
They just went along with it as if nothing happened and started eating dinner with a man who was in direct contact with an alien lifeform.
Ash could've lied to them by saying that he ran some tests and there was nothing wrong about him but that's all conjecture.

This is not true. Ripley confronts Ash directly about his decision to let Kane back onboard.
 

EGM1966

Member
I'm talking about how the rest of the crew didn't say a word about it,especially Ripley who was the most vocal against the idea of bringing Kane back on board.
They just went along with it as if nothing happened and started eating dinner with a man who was in direct contact with an alien lifeform.
Ash could've lied to them by saying that he ran some tests and there was nothing wrong about him but that's all conjecture.
They filmed a scene directly handling that but cut it for run time. It was right choice as it's essentially irrelevant as the theatrical cut tells you all you need to know.

Ripley was against bringing him aboard and her concern does remain and is handled when she confronts Ash quietly in medical. Dallas and Lambert were for bringing him on board so of course they're fine with it and Parker is shown to be concerned but short term focused. When Kane seems okay that's good enough for Parker. Brett follows Parker's lead do that's that and Ash wants Kane back on board.

Alien - like most taunt 70s films - doesn't overly dooon feed you exposition. The minimum is provided and you're expected to fill in the blanks.

General fil theory says cut as much as you can for the leanest, tightest narrative possible. It's not a 100% right thing to do but I'd argue many films today could do with much more pruning an unnecessary exposition cut.
 
Just watched this. It was laughably bad. Literally. The flute scene was freaking hilarious, as was the birthing scene where two people slipped on a puddle of blood.

Given the internet mockery of the idiotic nature of the crew of Prometheus, it's really surprising how Ridley Scott made the crew of Covenant even dumber. Everything about them, ESPECIALLY each and every one of their decisions, is horrifyingly stupid.

I really liked Prometheus but this was just a turd. Oh, and Michael Fassbender's American accident is terrible. Still love him as an actor, though.
 

Vengal

Member
Why is no one even remotely excited to see alien civilizations in this universe. In Prometheus most the crew seemed bored or actively not interested in finding an alien body and alien ship, and in this one they make it to an alien city and also have a similar response.

Scientists here when they find a new kind of frog are fucking jazzed, and look at how serious people are over dinosaur feathers.

So they start to implement a quarantine on the ship and the first thing the pilot does after getting blasted in the face by blood is leave the room.

The one crew member getting his jaw knocked off with a tail was fancy I didn't see that coming.

I wonder what this would have been like without any of the aliens. The conversations between the synths was sorta interesting. The implication that David is malfunctioning seemed like a thread that went no where.

RIP Franco, but you'll live on in 2-3 seconds of those youtube videos they made for this movie.
 
It was laughably bad. Literally. It's really surprising how Ridley Scott made the crew of Covenant even dumber.

I remember some time back on IMDB when just hinting that this sequel would be as bad or worse than prometheus was met with incredulity because it was assumed Scott would learn from his mistakes.

giphy.gif


RIP Franco, but you'll live on in 2-3 seconds of those youtube videos they made for this movie.

Yea, I just saw Franco in some promo shot and then he wasn't even given a proper showing at all to even see recognize his face properly.
 

Burt

Member
I'm kind of a Ridley Scott apologist

I give this movie four thumbs down

All the way down

Some of that Giger art was pretty gnarly though.
 

Luminaire

Member
Finally got around to watching this today. I liked it. Some weird/rushed moments though. Felt like an hour was cut out of the movie as some things resolved way too quickly.
 

kinggroin

Banned
The series is hardly a sacred cow anymore, so my expectations - especially after having read this thread - were in the gutter.

Third best Alien movie. I enjoyed watching what were probably the dumbest people in the universe, meet their demise.
 
Little late to the party here (just catching it with the home release) but I'm a little surprised to say I liked the movie overall. I mean there was some really dumb moments and it followed a well worn route but as far as running with the mess of the Alien mythology that Prometheus put in motion it was unexpectedly engaging.

I suppose to say that it's not some huge jump up from Prometheus but that my expectations were accordingly adjusted. It would have been interesting to see a part 3 of all this if it was a direct continuation with Daniels; starting over with yet another crew we have to, again, watch get cut down would be too much for me.
 
Saw this film again on blu-ray after seeing it in theaters, and sadly I think it gets worse on second viewing.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think Prometheus is a better film.

Fuck.
 
Saw this film again on blu-ray after seeing it in theaters, and sadly I think it gets worse on second viewing

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think Prometheus is a better film.

Fuck.

It's definitely worse than Prometheus.

Its story is soulless and shockingly idiotic and nonsensical.

Some of the visual ideas are neat, but this one ranks down there with Resurrection.
 
Ok I'm finally watching this and holy Shit this is so much worse than Prometheus.

These are supposed to scientists. Dumbest fucking scientists I've ever seen.

I'm legit cheering when people are dying.
 
I thought this was so boring and hated the characters, I enjoyed Prometheus more, I was so into the engineers storyline and was put to the trash
 
Oh it's getting so much worse. I remember Aliens at the introduction of the Marines. That's how you introduce characters.

These people are dumb. I never felt that the Marines were dumb.
 
"That's the Spirit" nice callback


Holy Shit is there any reason for the ship to be out of control at that rescue? The area was calm, just shitty piloting.

This movie is terrible.
 
Watched this tonight.

Straight garbage.

Ditto, unfortunately. I was hoping it might not to that bad when the opening scene was actually rather with Guy Pierce showing the appropriate amount of disdain for David when he asked about his creators, but the response of 'can't believe it's just random' felt like Scott doing a self-insert. However, I would have been content with that kind of director driven story had it actually been that movie.

Unfortunately, right after it cuts from that nice premise scene, the studio script writers apparently take over and decided "a movie has to happen now", starting with the event of, and this is an actual quote, "a neutrino burst" that damages the ship. For those of you reading this with writing ambitions and using technical terms: wikipedia, USE IT. (the thing here being that neutrinos don't interact with matter and are as such completely harmless)
(also "plasma storm"... that's a Star Trek invention that doesn't actually exist)
But then it just goes on with shit like that, and I never knew which character was which because there were just too damn many of them (I did know the movie was trouble from the release of that crew picture on because of that), and they just randomly died in pure schlock deaths that were surprisingly boring in how mandatory they were to clean up the oversized cast.

Also, having a sleeper ship and then a random line about "our next jump" ???

The only real conflict I felt in this movie was between a competent person writing the base of the script and someone who isn't putting in the 'must do' notes. Changing the alien into "nanomachines, son" has now basically ruined the concept.

It's terrible, and I suspect the production wasn't as smooth as the movie appears.
It looks nice, but it's not worth more than Life, the other dumb alien movie this year.


edit: btw, there is one particularly odd shot, and that is in the 'med bay' when the camera passes by the door. That shot doesn't make any sense because that style is what you would use to indicate another POV 'passing by'. Curious as to why the editor left it in.
 

bebop242

Member
Watched this tonight. Still can't believe they used the slipping on blood thing twice in one scene. I rolled my eyes the first time and straight out laughed at the second.

Dumb flick.
 
So I saw this finally the other night and I needed a bit to think about the movie.

The first 25 minutes of the movie are great, maybe even trim that down to the first 10-15 because the moment the Captain of a huge important mission decides they are going to divert to some shitty signal, then they do and everyone becomes suddenly way more stupid than Prometheus's crew. The main moment when I really just hanged my hat on the proverbial hook and clocked out, is when they go on an exoplanet like that with no space suits, Prometheus's crew did this until the who scene with sensors and Shaw's Boyfriend/husband.

The smart thing to do here would be to show the fallacy of technology in a strange place, IE people taking their helmets off in a foreign atmosphere has serious consequences, like oh I don't know maybe just melting like they just opened the ark of the covenant? I mean you could kill two crew members, shoot kubrickian longshots of people gruesomely dying with practical effects, shoot a scene where everyone awkwardly deals with what just happened. That's just me though.

Here let's just stroll on a random planet, and then oh my god. I've Got To Take A Piss Trope guy shows up, along with bingo card ladies and gentlemen, being an elite military soldier who decides to leave his sole objective alone to "take a piss" smoke a cigarette, wander around like a stoned buffoon then sit on a log stepping on some gross alien egg like things that spawn something that is somewhere between what I read in the begining of David Sphaits original draft for Prometheus, insect-like nanomachine black goo that can fly into the ear and infect the individual with...something. The worst part though, is that they get to the Downed juggernaut in this, and one of the military guys just pokes the weird spores because why the fuck not.

Like why are these Delta Force dudes so dumb. Why are all these supposed super scientists so dumb, why the fuck do they stop and follow the weird lone cultist looking dude who turns out to be David the android. Why does Walter have super healing powers when none of the other Androids in the series have had that. I will say Walter has a great actor doing a cool Seegson synthetic like voice, and the bit with the flute was... like on some level I get what they were going for with highlighting the philosophical differences between the two, while highlight the dichotomy in design that is a vast sea of diference compared to David. The whole part where Walter said they didn't like his series because they were too human, too "unpredictable" which basically meant to me, prone to malfunction and free thinking. Which is kind of interesting because it hits on some of those ideas of creation and consciousness, creation and creator. Cool subtext that isn't handled in a great way, because...jesus you teach him to play a flute, I mean he could of handled that in any other way but teaching walter to play the flute as a way to illustrate that if Walter had not been shown, he would never have bothered to learn and is incapable free speech or thought. This highlights why David is kind of dangerous.

I took a lot of David experimenting as him not necessarily designing the Xenomorph because all the eggs look different. The facehugger itself looks different in design and there are discrepancies in the xenomoprh design as well. That said have some actual Giger art in the background was... cool I guess but I think if you really wanted to mine or homage old concept for a prequel, why not take design cues from the stuff that changed or didn't get added in? I mean the original facehugger design went through several changes, it wouldn't surprise me if something like the two precursors looked like these two designs:



But that is what someone smart would do.

What Ridley ends up doing is just... I don't know, and the dark ending ends up being comically stupid because no one notices that Walter's cuts suddenly don't heal.


Then it really starts to sink in for me personally how much Alien:Isolation felt like an extension of the universe, and this feels like a man who doesn't understand the aesthetics or universe or creature at all. The 20 Hour experimental interactive Alien movie you never knew you wanted is what Alien:Isolation is.

I mean, the aesthetics don't really mesh at all, I don't even feel like they fit in with Alien's world when compared to the amount of work that went into create Sevastopol.

This is a man literally just making movies he wants to make, fan wank, fan fiction with a huge budget and the IP that got away.

I honestly hope the Bladerunner sequel turns out okay, because it would be a shame for that to tarnish the legacy of the franchise.

That said I somehow find myself morbidly having enjoyed simply seeing how stupid people could be for two hours.

I was astonished.
 
Watched this today. I was amused by the scene where the lady runs back and forth through a hallway, does a comic pratfall on some blood, and finally blows up her ship. Otherwise it was bad.

Edit: David showing up with Jesus hair and Cloud Atlas robes was pretty funny too I guess.
 
The smart thing to do here would be to show the fallacy of technology in a strange place, IE people taking their helmets off in a foreign atmosphere has serious consequences,

This non-complaint has been addressed a whole bunch in this thread.

They took their helmets off because the planet tested as more habitable than the planet THEY WERE GOING TO LIVE ON.

I'm not saying they're not dumb but processing their stupidity through the meme of "why'd they take their helmets off" isn't the best way to go about it this time.

I took a lot of David experimenting as him not necessarily designing the Xenomorph

But he did.

David designed the egg, the facehugger, and the xenomorph.

That's the point of David.
 

Carcetti

Member
This non-complaint has been addressed a whole bunch in this thread.

They took their helmets off because the planet tested as more habitable than the planet THEY WERE GOING TO LIVE ON.

.

The more habitable a planet is to humans the more habitable it is to potential micro-organisms that could kill them. It's the opposite of smart.
 

Window

Member
Earth is habitable, doesn't mean there's not diseases and bugs which can be deadly to human lives, as evident throughout history when people have migrated from one continent to another. The lack of hazmat suits definitely stretched my disbelief. This has nothing to do with memes. I mean I wasn't even aware there's a meme surrounding this, unless agreement or consensus on some point now equals a meme.
 
Earth is habitable, doesn't mean there's not diseases and bugs which can be deadly to human lives, as evident throughout history when people have migrated from one continent to another. The lack of hazmat suits definitely stretched my disbelief. This has nothing to do with memes. I mean I wasn't even aware there's a meme surrounding this, unless agreement or consensus on some point now equals a meme.

Any unknown planet like Earth should be a huge red flag about all the possible crazy variants of disease and wildlife.

Also, you'd think a medical bay of the future would have floors designed to not get super slippery if they got blood or some other liquid on them.

And yeah, Elizabeth is shown dissected in the movie in David's workshop.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Yeah, that's what I don't get about the "the planet was habitable" line of argument for why it's not dumb to take your helmet off right when landing. Habitable atmosphere does not mean free from disease, bacteria, viruses, hungry wildlife, etc.

Heck, Covenant kills a bunch of them immediately specifically because they don't have helmets on. The movie is making the argument for them. (Which just makes the crew look even dumber.)
 

Veelk

Banned
Heck, Covenant kills a bunch of them immediately specifically because they don't have helmets on. The movie is making the argument for them. (Which just makes the crew look even dumber.)

That makes me wonder:

As a creator, is Ridley aware of catastrophically stupid his characters of Prometheus and Covenant are? Like, did he write the script/film the scenes with full intentions of how easily preventable all these deaths were?

On one hand, it's hard to imagine a compelling reason to write characters this idiotic intentionally. I know that he wanted to use it to explore minor stuff, like the guy making the journey to the planet because of his religion. In the film, even with that in mind, it came across more that the guy was insecure about his power and decided to make a controversial decision as a way of trying to give an air of authority/confidence, but I can atleast tell the thematic intentions of that. On the other hand, something like taking off their suits on an alien world or blindly following the proven to be unstable android or not double checking if your good android one his fight with the unstable evil one just seems like...idiocy. If there is some thematic connection for these egregious errors, I can't think of what it could be.

On the other hand, how can he not notice? The mistakes are so huge and made so frequently. If Ridley didn't notice them, it's hard to think that no one on the crew wouldn't spot them. It's just as hard to imagine a production where this doesn't come up. They're just so obvious. If nothing else, you'd think he'd hear about the criticism of Prometheus and think "Oh, shit, yeah, these guys are kinda dumb, aren't they?" and work to do better next time.
 

UrbanRats

Member
This non-complaint has been addressed a whole bunch in this thread.

They took their helmets off because the planet tested as more habitable than the planet THEY WERE GOING TO LIVE ON.

I'm not saying they're not dumb but processing their stupidity through the meme of "why'd they take their helmets off" isn't the best way to go about it this time.

I seem to have liked this movie more than most, but this is still stupid.

Never mind the atmosphere, Europeans landing in the Americas for the "first" time could also breathe the air just fine, but they didn't factor in the impact their germs had on the natives, or the environment (or vice versa) and that was still Earth we're talking about.
And i mean that's a constant throughout history.

since the crew is not made up of random blue collar space workers, they should've known better than to go around randomly touching things they don't know, and breathing in shit they couldn't possibly have examined in detail.
And the weird thing is, there are plenty of ways, even with them wearing helmets, to force them not to, so i'm not suggesting they should've shot a movie with people in helmets all the way through.

EDIT: Ok, i see this has been pointed out already.
RoyaleDuke said:
What Ridley ends up doing is just... I don't know, and the dark ending ends up being comically stupid because no one notices that Walter's cuts suddenly don't heal.
This is not too weird.
As a viewer you immediately guess the twist, just because it's the most obvious course of action (especially since they cut away, not showing David getting killed off, in a movie that never shied away from gory demises).

However as the crew, i can see them just not noticing or not thinking about the switcharoo based on the non-healing wounds, since there was a LOT going on for them to worry about.
 
This is not too weird.
As a viewer you immediately guess the twist, just because it's the most obvious course of action (especially since they cut away, not showing David getting killed off, in a movie that never shied away from gory demises).

However as the crew, i can see them just not noticing or not thinking about the switcharoo based on the non-healing wounds, since there was a LOT going on for them to worry about.
I felt that it wasn't clear enough that it wasn't supposed to be a twist. David is the main antagonist so it wouldn't make sense for him to be killed off screen. But if we're supposed to know it's David all along why not just show him kill Walter? Why have this ambivalence where he doesn't seem disappointed with the one Xeno being killed and he helps the crew with one on the covenant? If it's not supposed to be a twist it communicates that poorly and if it is it's a really obvious one.

Also, considering David can smuggle some proto-eggs and his main goal seems to be getting to the colonists infecting the captain and releasing another Xeno later are just stupid risks. It's so disappointing too in that final xeno sequence that it just runs directly at them in the path it's herded. It doesn't match up with the intelligence shown in previous films or David's "perfect organism".
 
God, this movie wasn't worth the price from redbox. Why are the people in this prequel universe so god damn stupid? And the CGI blood, ugh, straight up ready syfy. This series is a total mess.
 

Rymuth

Member
Yeah, that's what I don't get about the "the planet was habitable" line of argument for why it's not dumb to take your helmet off right when landing. Habitable atmosphere does not mean free from disease, bacteria, viruses, hungry wildlife, etc.

Heck, Covenant kills a bunch of them immediately specifically because they don't have helmets on. The movie is making the argument for them. (Which just makes the crew look even dumber.)
Thank you.

On Earth, scientists take precautions from a variety of viral infections through decontamination, disinfecting etc....and this planet is the cradle of humanity

To prance around unprotected on an entirely new planet is beyond moronic...
 

UrbanRats

Member
I felt that it wasn't clear enough that it wasn't supposed to be a twist. David is the main antagonist so it wouldn't make sense for him to be killed off screen. But if we're supposed to know it's David all along why not just show him kill Walter? Why have this ambivalence where he doesn't seem disappointed with the one Xeno being killed and he helps the crew with one on the covenant? If it's not supposed to be a twist it communicates that poorly and if it is it's a really obvious one.

Also, considering David can smuggle some proto-eggs and his main goal seems to be getting to the colonists infecting the captain and releasing another Xeno later are just stupid risks. It's so disappointing too in that final xeno sequence that it just runs directly at them in the path it's herded. It doesn't match up with the intelligence shown in previous films or David's "perfect organism".
Uhm, i'm not saying it wasn't supposed to be a twist, i think it was (even if a painfully obvious one).
What i am saying, is that from the character0s point of view, the switcharoo wasn't as obvious, in all the commotion.

edit: Looks like around page 20 too? Basically every 20 pages people get pissed off about space helmets in a series where they send 15 marines into an alien infestation wearing tank tops
I think it has to do with tone and the expectations it sets up though.
In Alien 1 they respond much more reasonably to the threat for example.
Aliens has a bit of a trashier tone, being a loud(er) action movie.

This one inhabits a space that feels in between, and them being infected is so central to the whole plot, that it feels cheap how it happens.
Especially since, again, having them be forced to remove their helmets, wouldn't have been that hard to write.

Sci-Fi films where one guy gets infected and contaminates the whole crew are common, just have one guy crack his or her helmet, and then since they're couples, someone fucks up the quarantine protocols and ends up blowing up the shuttle (as it happens in the movie already) so then they're out of helmets and are forced to go around without them.
 
I think it has to do with tone and the expectations it sets up though.
In Alien 1 they respond much more reasonably to the threat for example.
Aliens has a bit of a trashier tone, being a loud(er) action movie.

Dan touched on it around page 40, but the problem here isn't even the tone, or the convention (because again, Alien has never really been about the science), it's about cheats.

Prometheus fucked up in a way that basically became a meme with the helmets. It absolutely did, and I'm not even saying it shouldn't, but it also just basically became shorthand for the disappointment of the film in general.

So people were sensitive to it this time out, and again, that's completely understandable. A lot of Covenant's loudest complaints are tied to disappointment in Prometheus. Why the helmets thing sucks here is that Scott did bother to explain why they're not wearing them, and had it make sense enough for his horror film (like it does just enough to allow any sort of planetary exploring as per any other popular sci-fi thing where the point isn't to be a procedural), and then completely cheated the whole scenario by cheaply (as you put it perfectly) introducing an airborne virus.

But the problem there isn't the helmets, or lack thereof. That part's fine. It's set up fine, and employed fine. The problem is the lazy way the airborne virus is employed.

As Dan said (more succinctly)

I don't think this point can be understated. It's one thing to buy into the stretched movie logic that often requires characters to remove their helmets, it's a whole different beast when the movie then utilizes that fact to put the characters in danger. That's having its cake and eating it, too. You can't try to have the characters and the audience whiz by fairly glaring environmental concerns and then actively invoke those very concerns as major plot points. The latter immediately betrays the former.

Problem's not the helmets. It's that Ridley couldn't be bothered to push for a more creative/interesting way for the threats in this film to be executed. And it's not just the spores, it's basically everything that has to do with David in this movie.
 
These are ALIEN MOVIES.

Same as STAR TREK movies

They're not about the science. They never really have been. They're horror films.

The original is a horror film and the people in it don't act stupid. The sequel is an action picture. The others after that, including these shit prequels are not scary in the least.
 
These are ALIEN MOVIES.

Same as STAR TREK movies

They're not about the science. They never really have been. They're horror films.

And I very much still (but even more with time) disagree with that sentiment.

For instance, in the movie that inspired it, Planet of The Vampires, and other movies written by Ib Melchior, nobody takes their helmet off outside their own spaceships (neither does anyone in Alien until the facehugger event). And Melchior was certainly very willing to use his scientific knowledge (as available at the time) for his work.

Also, I feel this whole line of argument is disingenuous, because something is horror (and NOT Star Trek) because it's believable to be possible, not 'oh it's just Star Trek'. I don't mean that existential issues can't show up in ST, but nobody in the right mind would call it scary. A lot of people would call Alien (particularly those who experienced it at release) a scary movie.

Just because the story isn't about the science directly doesn't mean science is not a fact of its design. You can't just ignore it and expect the suspension of disbelief to hold. That's not how that works.


Though I actually am fine with the 'no helmets' thing even if it's completely unreasonable from an actual science standpoint, but by then we had already had:
- neutrino burst (physically completely impossible --it would have zero impact-- , clear bullshit by the movie / screenwriter. I think they meant "neutron" but somebody misspelled it in the shooting script. I can think of no wine loving man who might do that. I do understand the wine love though. *wine lover bro fist goes here* )
- Walter walking back to deal with it, then just casually telling Mu-th-ur / Mother (we never see what the spelling is here, but the original 'mother' was just slang the crew used for the code name of their computer control) to retract those sails, which it then does. So hang on, he could have just told her / it to do that when he was at the back of the damn ship? (realized it immediately when I saw it)
(moot one, buuut) >> James Flamo, in a cryo tube. I'm willing to accept a leak in the oxygen tank for the tube, but the whole 'shock value' of it seemed like something the studio needed to happen to create viable reason for why they would go off-course. Whereas 'the company did it because they're dicks' is sufficient motive in Alien (notice how much fewer steps that takes), and that is apparently still the future of this. (next movie is Walter flying that horseshoe ship to pursue David so Scott can have it crash itself on purpose on LV-426, because we're now in 'connect the dooooooots' mode)
- random 'next jump' line. Like, what? Then what are the fucking cryo tubes for? Did James "shiskebab" Franco burn for nothing?

So by that time I didn't give a fuck about no damn helmets anymore.

and that small bit about 'the faith' but I'm okay with that at least, since they basically killed off that theme in this one. His implicit trust of David later on AFTER seeing what he'd done was just 'wow' in how unreasonable that was, even if he had the model around as a kid and curiosity. HE KILLED YOUR FUCKING WIFE, YOU ASSHOLE. SHOOT HIM. SHOOOOOOOT HIIIIIM
But no, they had to reproduce that scene from Alien. And then the crane bit from Aliens, which were both 'why?' scenes.
 

Vengal

Member
Wasn't the response in aliens fine though? That was an established colony which had years of climate data on if they would even need helmets. The company also had plenty of information on the situation as well. In alien when they first arrived to the planet they had full suits as it wasn't colonized yet.

I get these are trashy grenre movies at heart but the first two atleast weren't as glaring.
 
Wasn't the response in aliens fine though? That was an established colony which had years of climate data on if they would even need helmets. The company also had plenty of information on the situation as well. In alien when they first arrived to the planet they had full suits as it wasn't colonized yet.

They had full suits in ALIEN because they couldn't breathe the air. If they coulda breathed the air they probably woulda went out without helmets on. Ridley seems fine with chucking scientific protocol for the sake of getting better shots of his actors.

Now for ALIENS, sending marines into an alien infestation with no helmets seems irresponsible on the part of WY, right? Who knows what these things can do. Sure Ripley's escaped one before, but even she isn't all the way sure what they are (and it turns out they did discover a completely different form of the alien that they had no foreknowledge of! At all!)

The difference is that Cameron didn't cheat, where Scott did. Cameron sent em into an Alien atmosphere (the nest absolutely changed the climate inside) with no helmets on but he didn't have the Aliens shoot some shit out of their backs or whatever that infected them with an airborne virus.

Ridley had them hit the planet with no helmets on, and then had a bunch of farting rocks spit Aliens into people's heads. The problem isn't the convention of people landing on a planet with no helmets, because Alien has never been that kind of series (and lots of sci-fi isn't that kind of sci-fi, either - Star Trek being the best example, again). The problem is, as Dan pointed out, cheating the way Scott did.

The original is a horror film and the people in it don't act stupid.

I mean, they do, but it's reasonably stupid. It's stupid in a relatable way. It's a haunted house nightmare of a movie. So long as the mistakes people make are mistakes that feel right, audiences won't pause and go "hey, wait a min..."

Ridley Scott didn't take the time in either Prometheus or Covenant to make sure that feel was locked down like it was in ALIEN.
 
"a neutrino burst" that damages the ship. For those of you reading this with writing ambitions and using technical terms: wikipedia, USE IT. (the thing here being that neutrinos don't interact with matter and are as such completely harmless)
(also "plasma storm"... that's a Star Trek invention that doesn't actually exist)

Hehe the novelization actually explains this. It talks about currently unknown energies that we normally do interact with harvested by the sails. Technobabble, yes, but at least they head nod toward it.
 
Top Bottom