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GoT Spoilers (just finished Season 3) Red Wedding episode - can it be topped?

K

Kinglypuff

Neo Member
Can it be topped ? Probably, but I don't think Game of Thrones will at this point.

There are a lot of shocking gamechangers in the subsequent seasons but none changed the narrative of the show like this one, except maybe Ned's death, but even then it was on a smaller scale.
Moreover, the Red Wedding might be shocking, but it is a coherent development and is the consequence of a lot of character decisions since s1, while nowadays GoT is a lot more about shock value without a lot of thought or depth behind it. I find that to be real shame too.
 
T

TheXbox

Member
SG-17 said:
It was so dumb though. Half of the characters in the show are just idiots.
Click to expand...
What was dumb? Guest rights are sacrosanct in GOT. The Starks can't really be blamed for taking it for granted. (Martin also drew on an actual event in history as his inspiration for that scene)
 
Tal Shiar Agent

Tal Shiar Agent

Member
TheXbox said:
What was dumb? Guest rights are sacrosanct in GOT. The Starks can't really be blamed for taking it for granted. (Martin also drew on an actual event in history as his inspiration for that scene)
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He beheaded the Karstark guy, kept his mom around, didn't listen to any of his advisors, married that Volantis woman instead of marrying the Frey daughter and keeping her as a mistress.

Robb was a fucking moron and it was so annoying.
 
R

RipperGrim

Member
In terms of drama and straight up shock value? No. There are still fantastic moments to come though just not in quite the same way.
 
S

SporeCrawler

Member
season 4is strong.. 5 is meh except one episode. 6 and 7 were pretty strong from the production values side and kinda meh from the story side.
 
D

Doctoglethorpe

Member
Just in terms of “what the fuck!?” gut wrenching, season 4 episode 8. I cant get the image out of my head. Lol. Out of my head. Get it? You’ll get it.
 
Pagusas

Pagusas

Elden Member
SporeCrawler said:
season 4is strong.. 5 is meh except one episode. 6 and 7 were pretty strong from the production values side and kinda meh from the story side.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. Though I will say that one episode in season 5 is easily the best episode in all of GoT to me. It single handedly saves the season.
 
T

True Fire

Member
I thought “you know what” in Season 6 was bigger and better than the Red Wedding. I can’t stop thinking about it. The lighting was eerily white, and it made every frame look like a renaissance painting. The music was amazing, and it tells you in a very subtle way that something was... off about the scene. The cold open, the deliberate pacing... it will probably go down as the finest moment in the series.
 
T

tbm24

Member
I had always heard about it, and when I finally saw it(I binged GoT from season 1 to 7 a few months ago), I wasn't all that shocked by it. My favorite part of it is when the music starts playing and I remember what was said about that song(I watched with subtitles so it highlighted the name of the song). The following seasons and their events made me forget all about it honestly. I personally don't have a weak season of the show, I'm not too picky about it and Season 1-7 have been a ride.
 
X

xevis

Banned
You've reached the peak of the series OP. Each subsequent season is worse and S6 onwards is a dumpster fire if you're in this for character drama instead of bullshit cgi action
 
T

TheXbox

Member
SG-17 said:
He beheaded the Karstark guy, kept his mom around, didn't listen to any of his advisors, married that Volantis woman instead of marrying the Frey daughter and keeping her as a mistress.

Robb was a fucking moron and it was so annoying.
Click to expand...
Killing Arnolf and marrying Talisa are all down to the Stark code of honor. That's the tragic character flaw that saw Ned killed in season 1 and Robb in season 3. Stupid? Not really. But absolutely naive.

And if this had been any other garbage fantasy story Robb would have gotten away with it -- virtue trumps rationality. But it wasn't, he didn't, and I'm still not sure why you're upset. He fucked up - not because of hokey writing, but because of a pre-established character flaw - and was mortally punished. What's the problem?
 
S

Staccat0

Fail out bailed
Pagusas said:
As a singular event? No. That is basically what the story will forever be known for.

In terms of best episode though? Yes its been topped, several episodes off the top of my head top it, and at least 2 are episodes I'd say far far exceed it.
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I think I agree.
TheXbox said:
Killing Arnolf and marrying Talisa are all down to the Stark code of honor. That's the tragic character flaw that saw Ned killed in season 1 and Robb in season 3. Stupid? Not really. But absolutely naive.

And if this had been any other garbage fantasy story Robb would have gotten away with it -- virtue trumps rationality. But it wasn't, he didn't, and I'm still not sure why you're upset. He fucked up - not because of hokey writing, but because of a pre-established character flaw - and was mortally punished. What's the problem?
Click to expand...
I definitely agree.
 
J

JeffZero

Purple Drazi
"The Rains of Castamere" is honestly barely in my top 10 for the series; it's good, but the stuff in Yunkai just isn't very engaging and wrecks with the pacing for me somewhat. It's worth noting I was never really all that huge on the Robb/Catelyn plotline anyway. (I like it. Just not as much as most other things.)
 
Tal Shiar Agent

Tal Shiar Agent

Member
Honestly the only part of the show that I actively like is stuff related to the Long Night. The Night's Watch/Jon Snow plot thread and the Bran/Three-Eyed Raven plot thread.

TheXbox said:
Killing Arnolf and marrying Talisa are all down to the Stark code of honor. That's the tragic character flaw that saw Ned killed in season 1 and Robb in season 3. Stupid? Not really. But absolutely naive.

And if this had been any other garbage fantasy story Robb would have gotten away with it -- virtue trumps rationality. But it wasn't, he didn't, and I'm still not sure why you're upset. He fucked up - not because of hokey writing, but because of a pre-established character flaw - and was mortally punished. What's the problem?
Click to expand...
And yet he broke an oath he took by not marrying the Frey. He didn't even know that Talisa was pregnant when they married. So at the very least he was a hypocrite.

It just all made me dislike his character and grow bored with his plot thread.
 
B

BetterThanNothing

Member
Considering the fact that the show creators said themselves that they were just trying to get to the Red Wedding, it's pretty obvious that's the truly defining moment of the show as well as the books. Overall, it offers the major turning point from a politically fueled story focused around strife of war to a politically fueled social drama. I think the later plot points are just as interesting, but overall, the show especially feels like it's chasing the particular feeling of shock of the red wedding. It keeps failing and kind of cheapens the original moment imo.

It's damn good television so don't let my critical nature ruin it. I'm one of those assholes that read the books before hand.

If we're talking all shows though...in terms of investment and pure sudden shock, nothing will ever top the end of the Sopranos.
 
V

Violence Jack

Member
Let us know when you get to the opening scene of Season 7, episode 1.

As time went on though, I had much less sympathy for Robb Stark that by the time the Red Wedding came, I didn't find myself caring what happened to him. But the very last scene with Caitlin is what got me.
 
G

groansey

Member
Season 4 has a moment that had more impact imo than the Red Wedding - was yelling at the TV. It's the best season. The chicken scene in the first episode is probably the best in the entire series.

Season 6 is very good also.
 
T

tonysidaway

Member
xevis said:
You've reached the peak of the series OP. Each subsequent season is worse and S6 onwards is a dumpster fire if you're in this for character drama instead of bullshit cgi action
Click to expand...

I've seen this kind of complaint regularly, but the plain facts point to a different story. Every season has had substantially higher viewing figures than the previous one.

In terms of character development, I'd single out Brienne, Jaime and Tyrion as fascinating arcs that have only begun to gather momentum by the time of the Red Wedding. There's a lot of good meat on those bones.
 
S

Skellig Gra

Member
tonysidaway said:
I've seen this kind of complaint regularly, but the plain facts point to a different story. Every season has had substantially higher viewing figures than the previous one.

In terms of character development, I'd single out Brienne, Jaime and Tyrion as fascinating arcs that have only begun to gather momentum by the time of the Red Wedding. There's a lot of good meat on those bones.
Click to expand...
Not really convincing evidence. I’d argue the rise in viewership is a direct result of more big action set pieces.
 
N

Neece

Member
tonysidaway said:
I've seen this kind of complaint regularly, but the plain facts point to a different story. Every season has had substantially higher viewing figures than the previous one.

In terms of character development, I'd single out Brienne, Jaime and Tyrion as fascinating arcs that have only begun to gather momentum by the time of the Red Wedding. There's a lot of good meat on those bones.
Click to expand...

Jaimie and Brienne's characters are never as good as they were in season 3, at least in terms of compelling arcs.

And Tyrion's character development falls off a cliff after season 4.

None of those three characters have had much to them after 4.
 
T

tonysidaway

Member
Hollywood Duo said:
Not really convincing evidence. I’d argue the rise in viewership is a direct result of more big action set pieces.
Click to expand...

They certainly played a part, and I don't want to pretend otherwise. The three character arcs, though, could easily be augmented by several others. By the end of Season 7, the principal characters have all travelled far on their personal arcs.
 
X

xevis

Banned
tonysidaway said:
I've seen this kind of complaint regularly, but the plain facts point to a different story. Every season has had substantially higher viewing figures than the previous one.

In terms of character development, I'd single out Brienne, Jaime and Tyrion as fascinating arcs that have only begun to gather momentum by the time of the Red Wedding. There's a lot of good meat on those bones.
Click to expand...

We've also had Ramsay's awful go nowhere arc, Daenerys having to ascend a second time following the go-nowhere Sons of the Harpy thing, Cersei et al treading water in Kings Landing visavis the High Sparrow arc... shall I keep going? not to mention the increased emphasis on cgi setpieces which I find terribly boring. There's still interesting stuff going on, as you point out, but the good bits are increasingly fewer. The overall story ground to a halt shortly after the Red Wedding and started again on fast forward in S6.
 
H

Hulohot

Neo Member
I understand the ramifications of the red wedding now, but when I saw it after hearing all about the red wedding from everyone who watched it, but I was like... is that it ?

Basically a bunch of characters I didn't care at all about getting slaughtered.
 
V

VDenter

Banned
There are some great episodes in S4. Maybe a few in S6 and S7 but they will be buried between trash episodes for the most part. The writting goes downhill fast after seasson 4.
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
xevis said:
We've also had Ramsay's awful go nowhere arc, Daenerys having to ascend a second time following the go-nowhere Sons of the Harpy thing, Cersei et al treading water in Kings Landing visavis the High Sparrow arc... shall I keep going? not to mention the increased emphasis on cgi setpieces which I find terribly boring. There's still interesting stuff going on, as you point out, but the good bits are increasingly fewer. The overall story ground to a halt shortly after the Red Wedding and started again on fast forward in S6.
Click to expand...

You found
Hardhome, Hold the Door, Battle of the Bastards and Loot Train boring?
 
R

Ratrat

Member
SG-17 said:
And yet he broke an oath he took by not marrying the Frey. He didn't even know that Talisa was pregnant when they married. So at the very least he was a hypocrite.

It just all made me dislike his character and grow bored with his plot thread.
Click to expand...
He tarnished his own honor to save hers. Which is basically what Ned did...twice.
 
R

radios shipping overview

Member
scaletowidth
Click to expand...

Only one way to go after that. Until they just start building the seasons around spectacles, anyway.
 
B

Bounceounce

Member
Hulohot said:
I understand the ramifications of the red wedding now, but when I saw it after hearing all about the red wedding from everyone who watched it, but I was like... is that it ?

Basically a bunch of characters I didn't care at all about getting slaughtered.
Click to expand...
Did you we it having not watched the show or read the books, because if so of course it wouldn't make an impact.
tonysidaway said:
I've seen this kind of complaint regularly, but the plain facts point to a different story. Every season has had substantially higher viewing figures than the previous one.

In terms of character development, I'd single out Brienne, Jaime and Tyrion as fascinating arcs that have only begun to gather momentum by the time of the Red Wedding. There's a lot of good meat on those bones.
Click to expand...
There's nothing fascinating about those three's show arc.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
HStallion said:
I had to put the book down when I got to that part, which was before I saw the TV show version, because of how sudden and intense it all was and what it meant for the world at large and so many other characters.
Click to expand...

I read the section twice, then threw the book across the room. I couldn't process it.

The show was intentionally even more brutal, so as to hit people who read the book from another angle.

I haven't seen the show past season 3, but I'll binge it at some point. Probably when Martin finishes the series.

I know, I know.
 
A

Azzanadra

Member
In terms of shock value, I think it is the peak of the show, that doesn't mean there isn't great stuff to come- but your own keeness after the red wedding won't really allow for any more surprises on the same level.
 
B

Bounceounce

Member
GhaleonEB said:
I read the section twice, then threw the book across the room. I couldn't process it.

The show was intentionally even more brutal, so as to hit people who read the book from another angle.

I haven't seen the show past season 3, but I'll binge it at some point. Probably when Martin finishes the series.

I know, I know.
Click to expand...
Oh oh oh oh
 
B

Benzychenz

Member
That's the peak of political intrigue plot twists, but there's some really amazing stuff still to come for different reasons.
 
D

duxstar

Member
What the hell are you guys talking about in season 4 ? Nothing really shocked me there, in fact the nect episode to truly make me feel like the op is feeling is episode 5 season 6
 
N

Navidson REC

Member
duxstar said:
What the hell are you guys talking about in season 4 ? Nothing really shocked me there, in fact the nect episode to truly make me feel like the op is feeling is episode 5 season 6
Click to expand...

S4E8:
Oberyn's death? I think pretty much everyone loved this character.

EDIT: Not sure if the post below is directed at me, but just to be extra careful...
 
W

Window

Member
The series' emotional peak I think. Everything after season 4 is mostly spectacle with some parts executed brilliantly.
 
T

Temp_User

Member
Season 5 is probably the worst GoT season but it has by far the best GoT episode at least for me. Hardhome is pants-shittingly good.
 
R

Rymuth

Member
Nameless said:
You're still a ways off from the 20+ minute highpoint of the series, and the best episode overall comes later still.

Also Blackwater was a better than The Rains of Castamere.
Click to expand...

Yessss

SG-17 said:
He beheaded the Karstark guy, kept his mom around, didn't listen to any of his advisors, married that Volantis woman instead of marrying the Frey daughter and keeping her as a mistress.

Robb was a fucking moron and it was so annoying.
Click to expand...
Show Robb was an imbecile, not to say Book Robb wasn't but the circumstance for marrying Jeyne were a lot less moronic in the books.
 
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