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Dragon Ball Super |OT5| Zenophobia

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dlauv

Member

We never get definitive answers about anything in Dragon Ball. It's always in flux and nebulous. Considering this quote,

I suppose if Beerus' strength is a 10, [Super Saiyan] God would be right about 6. Only, Saiyans rapidly increase in strength as they fight against strong opponents, so the longer they fought, the more that gap would shrink, and it might even be possible for them to eventually turn the tables. Incidentally, I guess Whis would be about a 15.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/battle-gods-animanga-akira-toriyama/

I realize this vision may have been retconned a bit by Super's production, but I have little reason to think it wouldn't loosely hold true.

I'd say Goku's closing in at 7 or, if I'm being very generous, 7.5. Goku sandbags all the time and they've been fighting weird opponents lately, so it's hard to gauge.

And then you have stuff like -- if SSG is a 6, and Kaioken is a flat power multiplier, why wouldn't he be 60 or 120? So the disparity between numbers must be pretty wide and perhaps not linear (consider MMORPG experience requirements for leveling up as an example formula). Goku could easily be hovering at 6.5 territory.
 

LNBL

Member
Herms tweet about 17 and when he will apear:

No.17 will be appearing in Super starting with ep.86, airing April 16th.
 
Herms tweet about 17 and when he will apear:

No.17 will be appearing in Super starting with ep.86, airing April 16th.

Slaythe am cry.
It's okay bro.

Looks like I was right awhile back when I said it'd be 5-6 episodes between the exhibition and the tournament. *avatar quote*
 
We never get definitive answers about anything in Dragon Ball. It's always in flux and nebulous. Considering this quote,



I realize this vision may have been retconned a bit by Super's production, but I have little reason to think it wouldn't loosely hold true.

I'd say Goku's closing in at 7 or, if I'm being very generous, 7.5. Goku sandbags all the time and they've been fighting weird opponents lately, so it's hard to gauge.

And then you have stuff like -- if SSG is a 6, and Kaioken is a flat power multiplier, why wouldn't he be 60 or 120? So the disparity between numbers must be pretty wide and perhaps not directly linear. Goku could easily be hovering at 6.5 territory.
yeah, i mean it's all speculation

i would probably put him around 7 with blue, maybe 7.5 with blue and kaioken, but it's really all meaningless because we never see beerus fight any strong opponents

it would be nice to get another goku/beerus fight sometime after this arc
 

Reizo Ryuu

Gold Member
Not talking about that, my bad.

Super's animation is straight up ass. There is hardly any visual differences for power ups. Hardly any visceral changes in a fight at all.

SSJ3 Goku shook the planet while powering up.

Super fails in comparison.

Same thing happened with ssj2 goku vs ssj2 trunks, so much so that bulma created that weird shield bubble thing to stop them from destroying everything.
 

Skeeter49

Member
Right now I do think Gohan should be more disappointed than anything else. He went from being upset that he lost in the last fight, to being excited 10 minutes later.

But it's clear with last episode and this episode, they seem to be really pushing Gohan, with Goku building him up. Gohan has a 1 win/ 1 lost with Goku hype. Goku hyped him up with Cell, and he hyped him up with Dabura.
 
Right now I do think Gohan should be more disappointed than anything else. He went from being upset that he lost in the last fight, to being excited 10 minutes later.

But it's clear with last episode and this episode, they seem to be really pushing Gohan, with Goku building him up. Gohan has a 1 win/ 1 lost with Goku hype. Goku hyped him up with Cell, and he hyped him up with Dabura.

I mean, Gohan noted that it was kinda weird that he was excited, saying it must be his Saiyan blood. His fight with Lavender seemed to ignite something in him.
 

Slaythe

Member
Herms tweet about 17 and when he will apear:

No.17 will be appearing in Super starting with ep.86, airing April 16th.

3Q0OEj8.gif


I'm done.

Also what's up with CR and their awful name translations ?

They can just use whatever is on the Toei site...

From Vermut (pun on Vermouth) to ... Belmod ? The fuck ?
 
I really want a concrete answer as to how strong Beerus (and the rest of the GoDs are for that matter)

Is there a requirement for the GoD to be the strongest being in their respective universe (aside from the angels)??

Part of me feels like Goku is being particularly resistant towards Beerus because he knows he'll be as strong or stronger than him soon, but this also seems ridiculous, and contradicts what toriyama said about Goku and Vegeta surpassing Beerus (we all know how Toriyama is with his claims/continuity though lol)

Even just saying yeah , they have to be the strongest would be fine. I'm particularly wondering this both because of the Goku comment, but also regarding Toppo. If Toppo was a GoD candidate, and did become the GoD, Jiren would be stronger than the u11 GoD. how would they deal with Jiren going rogue if that were the case?

With Vegeta being offered the position, I just always assumed it's the Angel's job to get any newly immortal GoD candidate up to par over millennia. Like anyone who meets a sufficient level of strength can be a GoD and Whis or the equivalent angel will make sure they'll be the strongest eventually.

Until then maybe the current GoD just has to stick around.
 

alternade

Member
So is there a reason the future(?) Zen-sama is always mirrored but then corrects himself to match past(?) Zen? Or why he doubled what the other says? It's super cute but thought maybe there is some weird explanation for it.
 

NeonZ

Member
So is there a reason the future(?) Zen-sama is always mirrored but then corrects himself to match past(?) Zen? Or why he doubled what the other says? It's super cute but thought maybe there is some weird explanation for it.

If there's some kind of "Grand Priest is the actual person behind everything!" twist, there could be something important behind that. If we just get the tournament though, then it's just there for some amusing moments.
 

Skeeter49

Member
One thing I really like is how Toppo didn't befriend Goku at this end of this episode. I thought that was going ot turn out to be the case, or at least have a mutual respect for him, but he doesn't even share that with him, he still thinks Goku is evil, and I like that.
 
Grand Priest isn't the enemy. Goku has ZERO chance against him. ZERO. Goku doesn't even toy with the idea of fighting him. Grand Priest is simply the brains behind Zeno. Much like how Whis is baby sitting Beerus.
 

NeonZ

Member
Grand Priest isn't the enemy. Goku has ZERO chance against him. ZERO. Goku doesn't even toy with the idea of fighting him. Grand Priest is simply the brains behind Zeno. Much like how Whis is baby sitting Beerus.

If the Grand Priest turns out to be the final enemy of the arc, I could see the other Gods of Destruction getting to fight first and weakening him somewhat for the main cast. In fact, that's actually one of the reasons I expect some kind of twist. As things stand, all these new GoDs won't even see any action.
 

Alec

Member
The more I see goku they more I feel he is totally a jerk, I mean thats character development , right, right?
He probably knows that people will really give it their all to take him down if they think he's evil, so he's playing it up.

Or he planned the whole thing with the Zenos and universal destruction was never going to happen, it's all just to get the best performance out of everyone.
 

Skeeter49

Member
I feel like the setup of being evil, and Goku's consistent view on being evil so far this arc, which even this episode he wasn't arguing against, has to be part of some huge character development. I think in a few episodes that'll be more clear, but it seems they're going down a consistent path with Goku's character this arc, which hopefully they keep consistent and carry over into future arcs.
 
He probably knows that people will really give it their all to take him down if they think he's evil, so he's playing it up.

Or he planned the whole thing with the Zenos and universal destruction was never going to happen, it's all just to get the best performance out of everyone.
I doubt Goku planned this because the strongest universes are already exempt from fighting. Goku would want to fight the toughest universes.
 
So is there a reason the future(?) Zen-sama is always mirrored but then corrects himself to match past(?) Zen? Or why he doubled what the other says? It's super cute but thought maybe there is some weird explanation for it.

I think he is a poser. Any real person would not have to correct himself to be like the younger one.
 
Mortal level isn't about strength.

Not 100% confirmed, but the fact that 4 Universes are exempted from the Tournment makes me believe that those universes will have stronger fighters that will show up in later arcs. Makes too much sense. Also Universe 12 is the only universe besides 7 that had somebody attempting time travel. So I don't think tech is everything.
 

Daingurse

Member
i really hope that grey alien isn't going to be the strongest competitor there. seems really boring.

If Jiren ain't the strongest fighter, I'll be suprised. Him and Goku fighting, takes up like half the intro lol. Also love that his name references him as a Gray.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
- Loved Beerus and Goku arguing, Goku gives no fuck about Beerus anymore. Lol.
.

When Beerus whipped around I thought he was going to punch Goku in the jaw or something, and then Goku would catch it. I think I'd be disappointed if he already surpassed Beerus though.


So was "I don't destroy worlds randomly" a nod to Beerus/Whis actually having far ranging plans, and the whimsy being a farce or entertainment? Had they not found and trained up Goku and Vegeta they'd be pretty boned in both the last tournament and this one (though this one may not have happened).

Jiren "the grey" reminded me of people of earth
people-of-earth-jeff-the-grey-kurt.jpg
 

TCKaos

Member
Why did goku's shoes change as a SSG....



I know this isn't official art, but they're on model.
His laces become fully red and you can see his white soles


fun fact: in old DBZ goku's vertical line used to yellow and his horiz laces red. Not sure when it switched (maybe around Frieza), but someone probably forgot

Huh. See, I just thought that the shoes thing was a continuity error, and that in the movie they had him use the red bow the whole film as a minor design change (like having his "Go" gi without a belt), but I checked it out and it turns out he has his normal shoes the whole movie until he transforms, and then he has the shoes with the red bow and white soles.

Also, on the manga chapter:
I originally read it raw and was really hoping that Vegeta's strat was that while Super Saiyan Blue was a mortal form that used God ki, Super Saiyan God truly made you a deity, which would be super effective against other deities. Now it looks like there's no reason for Vegeta to ever use Super Saiyan Blue since he can just shift into it for a split second to deal a shitload of damage in a single blow - not to mention, as others have pointed out, this is exactly what Trunks did in DB Multiverse, and it was kind of lame then and is still pretty lame now.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Not 100% confirmed, but the fact that 4 Universes are exempted from the Tournment makes me believe that those universes will have stronger fighters that will show up in later arcs. Makes too much sense. Also Universe 12 is the only universe besides 7 that had somebody attempting time travel. So I don't think tech is everything.

I mean, universe level being an all encompassing thing makes sense. Power, culture, tech, all of it. U-7 would be low because Freeza and Buu ran around nuking planets and civilizations with no one stopping them, as a result U-7 has fewer advanced civilizations than most of the rest and is held up almost entirely by power/the Earth.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
Mortal level isn't about strength.

These comments and their opposite have been going on for two or three weeks now? It doesn't seem it's only about strength, but it also doesn't make sense to not include it in the calculus, as it was brought up in the context of being impressed a low level universe could raise such strong fighters.

That wouldn't make sense if it wasn't a weighted factor - the Saiyans weren't the smartest race, but they raised some of the strongest fighters, likewise a highly advanced race may not fight at all.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
These comments and their opposite have been going on for two or three weeks now? It doesn't seem it's only about strength, but it also doesn't make sense to not include it in the calculus, as it was brought up in the context of being impressed a low level universe could raise such strong fighters.

That wouldn't make sense if it wasn't a weighted factor - the Saiyans weren't the smartest race, but they raised some of the strongest fighters, likewise a highly advanced race may not fight at all.

I mean, power being a factor makes sense but from the sound of it power is far from the most important part of the math.
 
Yeah, but I was referring to when they said (paraphrase)

Beerus: you brought down our universe level.

Goku: yeah but Gohan raises it back up


nick-young-confused-face-300x256_nqlyaa.png

I guess maybe he's banking on this universal threat pushing Gohan into a corner again with no way out + god-tier training. Thing is, clearly he's forgotten that when Gohan is consumed by rage like that he loses who he is. He becomes a little borderline sadistic and doesn't think straight.
 

Daingurse

Member
I guess maybe he's banking on this universal threat pushing Gohan into a corner again with no way out + god-tier training. Thing is, clearly he's forgotten that when Gohan is consumed by rage like that he loses who he is. He becomes a little borderline sadistic and doesn't think straight.

Yeah, when Gohan succumbs to his Saiyan traits bad things can happen. Hoping he doesn't become the strongest again, just so he can fall prey to his own hubris for a third time. Hell, never thought I'd say this, but I am now worried that Gohan is excited to fight . . . He really does work best as a reluctant warrior, who fights out of a need instead of personal desire.
 
Surely the guys are gonna do all they can to win in the battle royale, that includes fusion among other things right? Considering the entire universe is on the line. Seeing Vegito just whoop ass again would be amazing especially in a battle royale scenario.
 

KHlover

Banned
Surely the guys are gonna do all they can to win in the battle royale, that includes fusion among other things right? Considering the entire universe is on the line. Seeing Vegito just whoop ass again would be amazing especially in a battle royale scenario.

Aren't tools forbidden in this one? Or was it weapons only? However it is, I'd still rather see them canonize Gogeta with this.
 
So is there a reason the future(?) Zen-sama is always mirrored but then corrects himself to match past(?) Zen? Or why he doubled what the other says? It's super cute but thought maybe there is some weird explanation for it.

Maybe for the viewer to distinguish who is future zeno and zeno, also future zeno repeats twice the same word zeno says

i really hope that grey alien isn't going to be the strongest competitor there. seems really boring.

I think he is the strongest of that universe which is sad and probably an easy win for goku
 
Gogeta would probably last half a second

SSJ3 Gotenks is a 10 min fusion going by canon. The entire battle needs to finish in 48 mins anyways.

I'd love to see Gogeta again if only for SSB Gogeta and to make him canon. Toppo and Jiren fuse and so Goku and Vegeta have to respond the same way.

Also with the birth of Bra, Vegeta will have a stronger resolve to fight and win to save the universe and his newborn daughter so fusion isn't out of the question. Man Goku you sly villain, you thought of everything didn't you lol.

Speaking of the episode. Toppo really didn't stand much of a chance and its just theatrics by Goku. Tanking Kamehamea waves is nothing at this point considering how everyone seems to survive it unless your name is Cell.

To this day there has never been a foe defeated by Kamehameha beside Cell btw.

I found it odd that Goku bothered letting Toppo bear hug him but tension and all that jazz.

Gathering the team is gonna be a lot of fun the next few episodes after Bra is born.

For those saying Gohan is out of character. How so? They specifically mention how Gohan is getting excited each battle that passes.

I also have a theory that Gohan is hitting his prime as a Saiyan adult, halfblooded or not.

Goku in DB was always about fighting but it became obsessive in DBZ ever since he met Vegeta where he spared him to fight later as a fair fight. Old DB Goku would have punched a hole in Vegeta with Super Dragon Fist and kill him like he did the Red Ribbon army lol. This was after Gohan was born and well on his way to becoming a fighter.

Having children and them growing up seems to cause Saiyan's to obsess over fighting now that their line is continuing and they are technically at their prime before age starts kicking in way later for them.
 
with how both Zeno really enjoying the tournament, I just can't see Zeno destroying the universe. if any, they'll probably make the tournament a regular thing. not annually, but maybe every decade or so.

that's probably Goku's plan anyway, which is why he embrace the villain role easily, to make the tournament as exciting as possible so Zeno will want more of it. plus it had the benefit to actually make Gohan excited about fighting again. which is about damn time.
 
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