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- Thread starter Gowans
- Start date
So because other DD services do it they makes it okay?
Femmeworth
Banned
Do you technically own the keys to the games you buy?
GoofsterStud
Member
They didn't do it. Steam one upped them by not allowing you to download and install games you already purchased while under the old terms while still not offering a refund.
This is a new low in DD.
NullPointer
Member
I'm new to this term, but those represent my feelings on the matter pretty well, and towards a lot more than just Steam.
We've been moving from a model of physical property towards digital services, but I'm not seeing any consumer protections or rights as far as these services go. In the case of these services which provide media licenses, we should at least be able to keep those licenses, the rights granted by those licenses, or an equitable refund for revoking those licenses if we don't agree to a service's amended terms. Beyond that a service like this shouldn't be able to unilaterally change the terms while holding our digital rights hostage - original account holders should be kept to the original terms, or provided recompense for their payments. Otherwise it comes across as extortion.
I've said it for a while now, but we really do need a digital service/property based consumer bill of rights.
Sentenza
Member
Nope, these new terms of service mean shit for us.
They can be enforced in U.S. just because their Supreme Court allowed this kind of clause with a sentence or something.
It's not about it being OK, it's about expectations. I have faith that Valve isn't going to try to screw its customers over in overt ways, and don't expect that my account will be disabled anytime soon.
GoofsterStud
Member
So I am curious how this works.
If I were to download a pirated copy of a game I owned on steam, with proof, that I purchased it and had a license that I am not able to use is illegal. Steam not providing a service while charging me is legal.
This system is really messed up.
Correct, every game that your purchased elsewhere is now tied to steam, you are now at steams mercy.
If I were to download a pirated copy of a game I owned on steam, with proof, that I purchased it and had a license that I am not able to use is illegal. Steam not providing a service while charging me is legal.
This system is really messed up.
Correct, every game that your purchased elsewhere is now tied to steam, you are now at steams mercy.
Sentenza
Member
Yeah, cause they are clearly so much better. Especially those with some sort of outdated DRM that doesn't work anymore today.
Yeah, snesLive stopped working and now I can't play super metroid .
the only comparison somewhat with this is emulation
if you own a PS1 for example, you can legally obtain a BIOS for it because you have the licence for that bios and have paid for it.
If you don't have the system its illegal to acquire the BIOS. This was upheld in a court of law when Sony tried to shutdown emulation in the States.
So in a way if you can prove you have paid for a licence, in theory you'd be fine but who knows.
its a crazy world where things you buy can be revoked. Do we really want this? really?
Basically.
Lets be honest, we knew it all around, GoG is the way to go for me, even if their catalog isn't as extensive but hell, Good Old Games does really stand up to his name. They are freaking good, I could try to clean my GoG backlog and it would take me several years.
Also the reason I only buy things in Steam when they are dirty cheap, except really special things that can only be acquired trough them or are closely related to them (namely, Portal 2, no other game to be honest).
Sentenza
Member
Yeah, cause 30 years old games old enough to be considered abandonware and that you can store 200 at once in one single USB flash memory are exactly my main concern thinking of protecting my purchases.
The problem is that the companies who use DRM have to be dragged into DRM-Free, kicking and screaming, much like the music industry had been. Pretty much, just promote indies who refuse to use DRM.
Your facetious post made it hard to tell what you meant.
Sentenza
Member
On this, I can easily agree.
Also, american citizens (well, everyone, actually, but this is mostly about them) should really start some lobbying work with consumer right associations to revert these shitty laws they are allowing in the first place.
No wonder corporations are going to "corporate" when they have laws enforcing their abuses.
Sentenza
Member
It still is the future, no matter how hard you guys are going to overreact over this. It's actually the only possible sustainable future.
Potentially not even a despicable one, as long as you will put your shit together and keep your politicians in check.
its not overreacting.
The fact you guys let your consumer rights get trampled so easily is disgusting.
The fact you let a company invalidate all your purchases is ridiculous.
If Valve allowed you to retain teh licences but killed the online portion of steam for your account, no issue
my way or the highway, IS NOT OK. Not unless they are willing to refund. If they aren't in Australia at least, they are breaking consumer laws.
The fact you guys let your consumer rights get trampled so easily is disgusting.
The fact you let a company invalidate all your purchases is ridiculous.
If Valve allowed you to retain teh licences but killed the online portion of steam for your account, no issue
my way or the highway, IS NOT OK. Not unless they are willing to refund. If they aren't in Australia at least, they are breaking consumer laws.
Do people cherish their right to participate in class action lawsuits that much or is everyone here a lawyer in fear of losing the most profitable scam ever?
You don't lose anything by agreeing to these terms, actually you gain something because Valve will be less vulnerable to legal abuse.
You don't lose anything by agreeing to these terms, actually you gain something because Valve will be less vulnerable to legal abuse.
GoofsterStud
Member
I found a bypass for now if you have dconline.
Disconnect from the internet to start in Offline mode. Close DC Universe Online in windows, aweseome something will still run. Try to change to online mode. It will tell you it's not closed. Stop the awesome process. Retry, your are now logged into steam and can download your content, before being locked out again.
Disconnect from the internet to start in Offline mode. Close DC Universe Online in windows, aweseome something will still run. Try to change to online mode. It will tell you it's not closed. Stop the awesome process. Retry, your are now logged into steam and can download your content, before being locked out again.
CecilRousso
Member
It´s not overreacting to have the discussion and wanting Valve/Steam to change to something even better, but it´s overreacting when you say that you from now on wont use Steam and/or buy Steam games.
So far, and it seems like it will continue, they have been the good guys.
*They have established a far more consumer friendly DRM system that essentially killed of stuff like Starforce and continues to make sure that stuff like Securom and limited activations is redundant (that a few console focused companies doesn´t see it is not their fault).
*They are probably the biggest contributor to making sure that PC is a viable gaming platform.
*They are the ones that actually evolves digital distribution by constantly adding new features. Does any competitor have anything similiar to their trading system?
They are not perfect, not by far, but destructive to PC gaming? No, just no.
So far, and it seems like it will continue, they have been the good guys.
*They have established a far more consumer friendly DRM system that essentially killed of stuff like Starforce and continues to make sure that stuff like Securom and limited activations is redundant (that a few console focused companies doesn´t see it is not their fault).
*They are probably the biggest contributor to making sure that PC is a viable gaming platform.
*They are the ones that actually evolves digital distribution by constantly adding new features. Does any competitor have anything similiar to their trading system?
They are not perfect, not by far, but destructive to PC gaming? No, just no.
I'd like to know how much publishers have a say in such policies. For example, you can't expect Valve to refund for games that are sold by other publishers.
The class action terms of service is not the problem. The problem is that if you do not agree to the TOS in the future you lose access to all your purchased games.
The fact these new TOS exposed that, is irrelevant. Valve could add anything inpalatable to te TOS now and you lose your games.
Their way or the highway. There is nothing else like it, that i can think of anyway. If you don't like Xbox Live TOS and leave, you still have your games, same with PSN.
sakipon
Member
Singles-GAF, Girl-GAF and Gay-GAF may safely continue posting. Lesbians beware...
It is. Once I've bought something from a store, the sales man can't really appear behind my door a week later and demand me to sign a new contract less I want my item taken away from me.
Oh well. DD-age still isn't mature enough for me to jump in.
GoofsterStud
Member
How is it over reacting? If a priest rapes a boy, am I over reacting by wanting him removed? As long as I keep my religion then by that logic I should just accept it.
As soon as they add a fee to access the service, everyone will freak out because it has an immediate effect on them. Some people don't realize they are getting rubbed unless they catch you doing it.
Congratulations you have leveled up your STD count. Grats! Is that a Steam achievement?
Canis lupus
Member
And just when I discovered those steam sales.
CecilRousso
Member
If you want an answer, write another comparison that isn´t an overreaction in itself.
GoofsterStud
Member
Point to obvious for you?
sazzy
Member
I don't understand people who say 'I trust valve they wouldn't do this to me'.
Newsflash: valve is a private company. It's not your mom or dad or your sibling or your significant other OR your friend. It's a company, which wants to make profits. Like every other company, they care more about profits and saving their asses from legal troubles which is what this new agreement is about.
I really don't understand how people can get emotionally attached to a company.
It's perplexing, sad and hilarious all at the same time.
Newsflash: valve is a private company. It's not your mom or dad or your sibling or your significant other OR your friend. It's a company, which wants to make profits. Like every other company, they care more about profits and saving their asses from legal troubles which is what this new agreement is about.
I really don't understand how people can get emotionally attached to a company.
It's perplexing, sad and hilarious all at the same time.
CecilRousso
Member
I´m not going to argue in a discussion comparing computer games with child abuse no.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
This is why I only use GOG. Even if they were to go moustache-twirling evil in the future, it doesn't affect me as I have my drm-free installers of every game I purchased backed up.
Stuff like this is why I didn't use steam to begin with, they can just change their mind on something whenever they want and you're sodded.
Stuff like this is why I didn't use steam to begin with, they can just change their mind on something whenever they want and you're sodded.
Stockholm Syndrome
+ 1
Valve fanboyism is worse than console fanboyism. At least with consolites they are fanboys because they are poor edit: because they can't afford other consoles.
CecilRousso
Member
Maybe it isn´t harder then Valve earning our trust over a very long timespan?
And them being a private company actually speaks in their favour. If they become public, and shareholders get their say, then I would get really worried.
But Valve or Gabe Newell can do no wrong!
GoofsterStud
Member
Point was still made, thanks for playing.
and everyone with the same religion as I are always good people.
CecilRousso
Member
Well, if all is well in your mind, good for you. Nothing changed for me.