Support NeoGAF

JohnnySasaki86 · Feb 4, 2013

OryoN said:
Where are these figures coming from?

Durante said:
I still don't buy this supposition that all shaders in all console games are written that close to the metal. Wouldn't the vast majority of developers outside of first party marquee titles still use HLSL (or whatever high level shader languag the API offers)?

I have no idea. The most likely figures put WiiU's CPU at 14 GFLOPs and The 8-core Jaguars at 102 -- for a factor of ~7.

I was guessing at the Wii U CPU figures. Guess it was a lot lower than I thought. Orbis has 4 specialized(each have an additional ALU) CU's reserved for compute(410gflops), as well as the Jaguar CPU measuring in at 102gflops. Meaning Orbis has a total of 512 gflops for compute. This would make it a factor of 36.5.

ColdBlooder · Feb 4, 2013

Donnie said:
Nah, he was adament it was just a R700, so he'd be just as wrong as you or I really if this does turn out to be some super custom unified shader/fixed function hybrid GPU.

Incidentally this idea sprung up a while ago on this forum (about shaders plus special fixed function logic working together). But after a while the idea seemed to disapear, well looks like that was spot on. Very interesting. On one side it could make porting from Orbis ect harder than expected. But on the other side it could mean the GPU can produce some very unexpected results in the right hands.

I think you're spot on. Disappointingly low flops but fixed functions to make up for it.

But that basically would also mean its impossible to compare it to anything else...

Schnozberry · Feb 4, 2013

Fourth Storm said:
I was actually thinking about making a charitable donation to somewhere if we get enough people to agree on one. Kindness should beget kindness I feel.

Child's Play Charity would be my recommendation.

JohnB · Feb 4, 2013

Fourth Storm said:
I was actually thinking about making a charitable donation to somewhere if we get enough people to agree on one. Kindness should beget kindness I feel.

Keep my £30/$50. Treat yourself!

OryoN · Feb 4, 2013

Wow, when FourthStorm said Chipworks were going out of their way to help, he wasn't kidding.

That was so cool & generous of them. Thank you ChipWorks!

wsippel · Feb 4, 2013

The Abominable Snowman said:
You guys agree with 'function' from B3D? (If you're reading I hate to crosspost, but I'm just using this for fuel )

So 160/12/8 configuration

Well, the three blocks function thinks are TMUs are actually four blocks as far as I can tell. It's just that the one on the left has a slightly different layout.

Oblivion · Feb 4, 2013

The Abominable Snowman said:
You guys agree with 'function' from B3D? (If you're reading I hate to crosspost, but I'm just using this for fuel )

So 160/12/8 configuration

I don't get it. While few developers seemed thrilled with the CPU, virtually everyone said the GPU was supposed to be tits.

Donnie · Feb 4, 2013

Fourth Storm said:
Be nice, USC-fan. This is going to be a tough pill to swallow for many if my first impressions are correct. But I'm not saying anything until I have verification from a more knowledgeable source.

USCs prediction was a legacy R700 design with eDRAM and 240-300Gflops.

Schnozberry · Feb 4, 2013

I've stared at that photo for quite a while now and can't make sense of most of it. I'm glad you guys know what the hell you're looking at.

Thunder Monkey · Feb 4, 2013

Schnozberry said:
I've stared at that photo for quite a while now and can't make sense of most of it. I'm glad you guys know what the hell you're looking at.

Pretty sure it's a GPU.

Though looking at it sideways it could be a dolphins vagina.

pulsemyne · Feb 4, 2013

Seems like it a very 'Console' design of chip. Very custom in nature and designed so that people can get lots out of it with little power used. Less brute force approach than PC cards. It will take devs some time to get used to it. Should be very interesting.

Schnozberry · Feb 4, 2013

Thunder Monkey said:
Pretty sure it's a GPU.

Though looking at it sideways it could be a dolphins vagina.

That much I got. I just have no idea how to identify any of the fixed function hardware or it's purpose.

Cosmonaut X · Feb 4, 2013

Thunder Monkey said:
Pretty sure it's a GPU.

Though looking at it sideways it could be a dolphins vagina.

Flipper? ;-)

Schnozberry · Feb 4, 2013

Tron#1 said:
Should this design even be a surprise if you looked at Nintendo past two home consoles? Even the 3ds GPU

Not really. I am extremely interested to see what kinds of effects they are going to produce with the custom logic, ostensibly for "free". Should make for some very intersting first/second party stuff, if nothing else.

z0m3le · Feb 4, 2013

Shin Johnpv said:
I thought it was stated already that the architecture blocks would be blocks of 40 shaders not 20, so 320 not 160.

so quite a bit different from VLIW5's 80 shaders per SIMD? HD 4870 (800 ALUs, 10 SIMDs) HD 5870 (1600 ALUs, 20 SIMDs)

DeuceGamer · Feb 4, 2013

Fourth Storm said:
I was actually thinking about making a charitable donation to somewhere if we get enough people to agree on one. Kindness should beget kindness I feel.

I'm good for that. Was wondering if there were anything else we could put the money to good use for since it's a small amount to me, but collectively may be useful.

ozfunghi · Feb 4, 2013

Where are Blu & Alstrong?

WHEEEEEEEEEEERRRRREEEEE?????? SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKKKEEEE!!!!

Refreshment.01 · Feb 4, 2013

Thunder Monkey said:
And I still say this level of hardware should be more than enough power to represent all but the most... excessive... of visions.

Unless you really want to render an entire city with hundreds or thousands of independent AI routines and unique models.

No, this level of hardware is not even enough for some of todays games, let alone what the future holds

Thraktor · Feb 4, 2013

Shall I just put up the thread now? I can update as we go along.

Thunder Monkey · Feb 4, 2013

Refreshment.01 said:
No, this level of hardware is not even enough for some of todays games, let alone what the future holds

Depends on what you're trying to achieve.

If you just want to make a videogame without it having to feature the most realistic visuals $100 million can buy?

Cosmonaut X · Feb 4, 2013

Thraktor said:
Shall I just put up the thread now? I can update as we go along.

Depends on how well you think you're going to be able to present the known info and where things are still unclear. Otherwise you risk launching a new thread that will deteriorate within a page or two.

Schnozberry · Feb 4, 2013

Thraktor said:
Shall I just put up the thread now? I can update as we go along.

If you have a good amount of info, go for it. Hopefully the meldowns are entertaining.

Edit: On second thought, what Cosmonaut said.

guek · Feb 4, 2013

drop the boot, thraktor, I have faith that you'll do a great job accurately portraying its specifications

USC-fan · Feb 4, 2013

Donnie said:
USCs prediction was a legacy R700 design with eDRAM and 240-300Gflops.

Link?

Refreshment.01 · Feb 4, 2013

Thunder Monkey said:
Depends on what you're trying to achieve.

If you just want to make a videogame without it having to feature the most realistic visuals $100 million can buy?

Why are you conditoning your answer? It's about puting less and less restraints to whatever a creative mind wants to do. It doesn't have to do exclusvly with visuals, we could be talking about more complex simulaions for example.

The more capable the hardware, the closer to realise that vison (ambitious or not). You can't replicate Orcs Must Die on a NES, however a Wii U has no problem runing something of the complexity of Salomon's Key.

Blades64 · Feb 4, 2013

Thraktor said:
Shall I just put up the thread now? I can update as we go along.

Don't launch it if there's still stuff that's unclear at the moment. I predict the thread will go downhill fast depending on the way the information is presented. Watch the wording I guess, but either way...doesn't look so good.

Fourth Storm · Feb 4, 2013

Thraktor said:
Shall I just put up the thread now? I can update as we go along.

No point in delaying any further. I should have the analysis by Randy at Chipworks at some point later, but in the meantime let's just go ahead and see what people come up with.

Edit: I dunno. Maybe we should wait a bit longer. Things are pretty unclear. Up to you...

Shin Johnpv · Feb 4, 2013

z0m3le said:
so quite a bit different from VLIW5's 80 shaders per SIMD? HD 4870 (800 ALUs, 10 SIMDs) HD 5870 (1600 ALUs, 20 SIMDs)

If it's 80 then it would be around 640 based on that person from Beyond3D's original SIMD count. I for some reason thought it was 40, (the person on Beyond3D seemed to think it was 20).

LeleSocho · Feb 4, 2013

Thraktor said:
Shall I just put up the thread now? I can update as we go along.

Well if the OP is beefy enough then do it but seriously there is no rush

Gahiggidy · Feb 4, 2013

I say wait until the thread's finished. I want to step away to get lunch now.

Hoo-doo · Feb 4, 2013

Tron#1 said:
This is WAY bigger than neogaf.... Today the gaming world explodes. I can see it now.....

I like your enthusiasm, at least.

Post away, Thraktor.

Cosmonaut X · Feb 4, 2013

Shin Johnpv said:
If it's 80 then it would be around 640 based on that person from Beyond3D's original SIMD count. I for some reason thought it was 40, (the person on Beyond3D seemed to think it was 20).

Is there any way of nailing this down with any certainty? I mean, there's a hell of a lot of difference between 20 per SIMD and 40 per SIMD, let alone 20 and 80...

EDIT:

re: Posting a new thread. Would it be worth - assuming you haven't already done it, Thraktor - having a having a set of basic questions that need answered before posting? That is - as above - what's the shader count? Is that definitely custom logic? Do we know what it's for? etc.

TheGreatMightyPoo · Feb 4, 2013

Thraktor said:
Shall I just put up the thread now? I can update as we go along.

guek · Feb 4, 2013

*prepares for the worst*

Gahiggidy · Feb 4, 2013

I sincerely hope Microsoft doesn't use this info to misrepresent the Wii U in their advertising.

Schnozberry · Feb 4, 2013

Fourth Storm said:
No point in delaying any further. I should have the analysis by Randy at Chipworks at some point later, but in the meantime let's just go ahead and see what people come up with.

Edit: I dunno. Maybe we should wait a bit longer. Things are pretty unclear. Up to you...

I think the world can wait for Randy's analysis.

roddur · Feb 4, 2013

Tron#1 said:
I hope no one gets banned in this new thread but.........

no one will get banned. because the general idea will be 'The hardware is bad', i think

schuelma · Feb 4, 2013

So if the speculation is correct, is it fair to say that for 3rd party multi platform stuff this is really bad, but that theoretically 1st party titles/exclusives could be very impressive?

Hoo-doo · Feb 4, 2013

Gahiggidy said:
I sincerely hope Microsoft doesn't use this info to misrepresent the Wii U in their advertising.

Since when does Microsoft even mention their competitors in their advertising?

Shin Johnpv · Feb 4, 2013

Cosmonaut X said:
Is there any way of nailing this down with any certainty? I mean, there's a hell of a lot of difference between 20 per SIMD and 40 per SIMD, let alone 20 and 80...

Yeah it makes for a hell of a range. Again I'm just going by the Beyond3D guys supposed count of the SIMDs. Which he says he sees 8 blocks of.

The Boat · Feb 4, 2013

I can smell the meltdowns coming.

DeuceGamer · Feb 4, 2013

So, what I'm understanding is....we still have a lot of unknown???? My only expectation going into this was to have a clearer picture of what the Wii U had, regardless what that meant. Seems there are still a lot of question marks depending on who you ask.

The Boat said:
I can smell the meltdowns coming.

Wouldn't be a Wii U discussion without them would it? Hopefully people who take these things personal can step back and realize they aren't chained to a single machine.

Nothing1016 · Feb 4, 2013

schuelma said:
So if the speculation is correct, is it fair to say that for 3rd party multi platform stuff this is really bad, but that theoretically 1st party titles/exclusives could be very impressive?

I don't think anyone ever doubted Nintendo's titles. They work magic on their own hardware. But I think you are correct for future 3rd party titles. But then again, developers did say they liked the GPU even if the info is negative now.

Edit: Then again, it could've been PR talk as usual.

DragonSworne · Feb 4, 2013

Shin Johnpv said:
Yeah it makes for a hell of a range. Again I'm just going by the Beyond3D guys supposed count of the SIMDs. Which he says he sees 8 blocks of.

I don't know anything about GPU architecture, but I can count.

I don't see 8 of anything. How is he grouping them?

Blades64 · Feb 4, 2013

I think we should wait until the response from the guys at chipworks come in.

Kudos to them by the way.

Donnie · Feb 4, 2013

USC-fan said:
Link?

If you really want me to quote some of your posts claiming repearedly that the GPU is a R700 and nothing more I can do that. I also remember you claiming the range of shader power was 240-300gflops and I'm pretty sure I can find that quote. Though to be fair you could possibly have decided on a higher range later.

DeuceGamer · Feb 4, 2013

Blades64 said:
I think we should wait until the response from the guys at chipworks come in.

Kudos to them by the way.

In all the excitement, I forgot to mention this as well. Very classy Chipworks!

ozfunghi · Feb 4, 2013

DragonSworne said:
I don't know anything about GPU architecture, but I can count.

I don't see 8 of anything. How is he grouping them?

I think it's the lanes in between the I structures.

z0m3le · Feb 4, 2013

Shin Johnpv said:
Yeah it makes for a hell of a range. Again I'm just going by the Beyond3D guys supposed count of the SIMDs. Which he says he sees 8 blocks of.

if it's VLIW5 and 8 SIMDs, then yes it would be 640 shaders... Just it is a lot higher than I was expecting, so I didn't post it here, figured i must of been looking at the die wrong.

HD 5000 and HD 4000 has 5 ALUs per shader unit (thus VLIW5) and 16 shader units per SIMD. 80 ALUs per SIMD, so 640 ALUs "shaders"

majik13 · Feb 4, 2013

so the general consensus is that the chip is "bad" or not what was expected even with already low expectations. but what is this based on?, it seems there is also no concrete facts/analysis yet, or much known yet about it, other than there possibly being fixed function hardware, or is that it?

I am not trying to make a point, just trying to understand.

Support NeoGAF

WiiU technical discussion (serious discussions welcome)

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Banned

Banned

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Banned

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.

Banned

Member

Banned

Banned

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.

Member

Member

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Similar threads