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Millionaire tries to get $829 via kickstarter to send daughter to RPG maker camp?
- Thread starter Goon Boon
- Start date
Holy Shit. I missed that the first time through as well, due to the stupid formatting.
.................................
Writing a letter that truly expresses how distasteful this is will take some time. I've already wasted today obsessing over this.
MWS Natural
Member
Really amazing the things that certain people can get away with.
semiconscious
Member
I don't think so. More than other businesses, Kickstarter is built on a sort of integrity. If too many projects are bullshit, nobody will buy into further Kickstarter projects. If Kickstarter comes right out and backs the wrong horse (despite clearly stating that they won't back any project), the whole thing pretty much falls apart.
Read the CNet article. There's a quote from a kickstarter spokesman who basically praises the project and confirms that they're accepting whatever "game" this child makes at camp as the "project".
Never mind that the clearly stated goal was to fund a trip to this camp and nothing else. (or admission to the camp, to word it more accurately)
I just heard about this about ten minutes ago, and I don't think that's misleading. She intends to go to this camp ... in order to make that game, right? And her intention to do this is even more clear when you actually look at the Kickstarter page, where backers who donate more than $10 are supposed to receive a copy via digital distribution when it is completed in July. Anyway, it may not be the primary goal of the Kickstarter ("Raise $829 so I can go to this camp"), but the backer levels seem to clarify her intentions to me.
It probably won't be a very good game, or even worth $10 because, you know, she's a nine year old... but as long as she follows through I'm not sure what the issue is on that front.
semiconscious
Member
welcome to kickstarter 2.0
. this wouldn't be the first time that something good on the internet went bad...Delusibeta
Banned
http://www.kickstarter.com/help/guidelines?ref=footer
In addition...
Add in the fact that the whole web of suspicion has opened up, ranging from whether the girl in question is involved at all (there's no evidence that she is other than her mother's word, which is under suspicion) to her mother's decidedly shady past, and her actions (especially the alleged e-mail in the latest update, which is definitely problematic), and you've got something that definitely smells like a scam.
I'm an old man. I've seen titans rise and fall, then rise, then die, then get bought out, sold, chopped up, and then released in best of compilations. Ain't my first time at this particular rodeo. I just really liked where Kickstarter was headed, and if it loses integrity now, it will make it considerably more difficult for future crowdfunding portals (and the projects they host).welcome to kickstarter 2.0
Nobody... Nobody in this thread has ever objected to the girl going to the camp and making the game...
What has been objected to is using Kickstarter to pay for the trip to the camp. Given that that is basically the only expense required, since she will be using free RPGMaker software to make the game, and it is a training/tuition expense... according to Kickstarter ToS this should not be allowed to happen.
It never had integrity. I have more faith in this then code hero.
Don't contribute then.
faceless007
Member
More specifically, to reimburse the mom for having already paid for the trip.
If that's actually her at the helm of this whole thing. The entire kickstarter description reads like an adult writing like a child.
I mean, I don't want to belittle children, but does this sound like a 9 year old?
"It's no secret there aren't enough females in STEM professions so part of my Kickstarter campaign is aimed at raising awareness and getting girls thinking about careers in technology at an early age."
That's not the goal either. The trip has already been paid for. The mom clearly states the actual goal as "proving her brothers wrong."
I have a hard time looking at it that way when the vast majority of the written description talks about the camp, about STEM awareness and proving her mean brothers wrong. There is no game without the camp. There's no design or concept provided. It's entirely a byproduct.
Because it's a scam. (I was defending the camp, not the kickstarter.)
Aquamarine
Member
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105...ear-old-girls-kickstarter-project...and-lose/
Kickstarter Official Justin Kazmark said:
Yeah...the project's not going down. She's going to walk away with $20 grand in her pocket, laughing her way to the bank.
Don't think we're going to win this one, guys. :-(
I don't even think it's that. The project creator just appears to be really scummy - forcefully manipulative, disingenuous, and purposely using children and current gender hot issues in order to gain support and attention. It seems shady as hell, and Kickstarter has been responsive to people with honest concerns. Makes it seem like Kickstarter is shady as hell too.
TheSpoiler
Member
Funny, I love how people think this is some sort of solution. "If I don't do anything with it, it'll just go away."
Just ignore issues that have the potential to set some huge precedence that, at the least, affect a wide load of developers.
foobarry81
Member
If it was actually about making the game, then why didn´t they make a complete budget that sums up all the costs (like probably all other KS game making projects do)?
- tuition fee
- overnight camp cost
- laptop
- ...
The project clearly states they need $829, just to pay for the training.
The whole project is a complete mess anyway. They drag in gender issues, are trying to launch this Keep Up! awareness brand, which really doesn´t have anything to do with a 9yo going on a summer camp. Certainly not a priviliged kid like this one that will have plenty of opportunities to succeed in life.
If Susan Wilson would´ve launched a separate project about gender issues, it would´ve seemed a lot more sincere. Now it just seems abusive.
That is very true. There has been a shadiness to the whole thing throughout.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Yeah, this is a very good point.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
That's a pretty big loophole to the "no tuition Kickstarters" clause. There's very little space on that Kickstarter devoted to the value or content of this hypothetical game.
Especially since they are taking 5% of the money. But we should all follow Coconut advice, look the other way! The best thing to do when you see something wrong is to ignore it!
semiconscious
Member
sometimes too much success too soon 'changes' people. &, if a project like this one is what now passes muster as 'legit' from ks' perspective, that's unfortunately what i'm gonna hafta assume happened here...
Delusibeta
Banned
Here's what annoys me, she has paid for the camp in question. The funds have already been raised and used by herself: why does she need a Kickstarter? The mind boggles.
you know, accepting $29k for $900 fund is wrong, but some of you guys are as guilty... in this particular case, she posted email of employee, employee did not publicly endorse the project. Do you think they dont respond to the emails or something? Do you understand the difference? Also, sending one tweet is spamming?
hopefully this will teach people to fund only real stuff.
chickdigger802
Banned
wait... now that i think about it... the fuck is a rpg maker camp anyways?
Does the software even support group projects using something like subversion?
Does the software even support group projects using something like subversion?
All I will say is that you have woefully misunderstood what's going on here.
Read the thread.
No, she was tweeting a bunch of places, like ellen degeneres, etc.
Also no, this won't teach people to fund only real stuff because the people who funded this will come away thinking, "YEAH! I just sent that kid to RPG maker camp and now she's going to improve the STEM field. I sure showed those naysayers about this project."
Delusibeta
Banned
What? So 27 identical @messages don't constitute spamming any more? Also, may I suggest you read the alleged e-mail?
I think this e-mail is fake, needless to say. Should also be noted that this is the one thing that she hasn't got a screencapture of. Yet she posted a picture of a pair of abusive comments, so it's not like she doesn't know how to do it.
funkystudent
Member
There have been plenty of questionable KS projects but nothing as blatant or half asses as this one.
Its a shame these kinds of people will ultimately destroy the site and peoples perceptions of crowd funding but for the Kickstarter staff not stopping it. I bet KS has been much more successful for them then they ever imagined. I bet they just want to get what they can get out of it before the bubble bursts just like all these scam artists jumping in before this type of funding is ruined by people like themselves.
Its only a matter of time before the scammers and people out to make a quick book with no financial risk of there own poison the well for everyone. Everyone has to get in before that happens.
Its a shame these kinds of people will ultimately destroy the site and peoples perceptions of crowd funding but for the Kickstarter staff not stopping it. I bet KS has been much more successful for them then they ever imagined. I bet they just want to get what they can get out of it before the bubble bursts just like all these scam artists jumping in before this type of funding is ruined by people like themselves.
Its only a matter of time before the scammers and people out to make a quick book with no financial risk of there own poison the well for everyone. Everyone has to get in before that happens.
Vicetrailia
Member
No it won't. She'll keep on trucking and kickstarter refuses to do a damn thing about it. They're pathetic.
It's about Kickstarter and their responsibility as a business at this point. She's obviously a lost cause.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
So they didn't publicly endorse this type of behavior while still saying that technically it is a project.
Not sure how to feel here.
If I did a "pay for my grad school tuition and get a hard bound copy of my dissertation" kick starter would you expect it to be allowed?
This is why I feel an appeal to the true stakeholders may be effective. By this I mean the people who have the most to lose are the creators who have successfully used kickstarter to fund projects. Kickstarter may not care about their integrity, but it's pretty damn important for InXile, Double Fine, Oculus Rift, Ouya, Harebrained Studios, etc... People are already so hesitant to support these initiatives, and this will only close up wallets.
JakkuFurosu
Member
Unfortunatly this is the reality I see as well.
Things will get progressively worse until no one trusts anything new.
Whats to stop 100000 more rpg maker camps from springing up tomorrow and drowning good startups
Delusibeta
Banned
Aquamarine
Member
polyh3dron
Banned
The issue is that it's framed as asking for $829 to pay for what effectively is tuition. This is against the ToS. But since its supposedly a 9 year old girl, and they're invoking gender issue stuff, that makes it okay.
foobarry81
Member
But if you actually want to raise a good amount of money, you´re probably going to have to make up some story about you being bullied by some mean family member that you will never be able to make that dissertation.
I wouldn't have had as much of a problem with this if it showed up on, say, indiegogo (whose whole thing is letting you run crowdfunding for whatever you want.) I dislike it on Kickstarter because Kickstarter pretends to have standards, one of which is no lifestyle funding, and this is pure lifestyle funding for the kid. She's not promising to take what she's learning at RPG Camp and apply it to making a game specifically for the Kickstarter, she's promising to send everyone the game she makes as part of the camp's instructional sessions. Essentially, pay for the kid to go to camp and she'll go to camp. Fund My Trip To Disneyland, And I'll Send You A Piece Of My Ticket!
There's nothing morally wrong about trying to get people to pitch in for your kid's tuition, but it is an apparent perversion of the Kickstarter rules, and there are crowdfunding platforms out there that would have allowed it without seeming dodgy. Kickstarter being okay with it is equally disappointing, but not terribly surprising.
I also really, really don't like the branding present on the merchandise being promised as rewards. That particular thing does seem opportunistic, and raises the worrying possibility that mom's gonna try to cash in on this by launching Keep Up as a movement.
There's nothing morally wrong about trying to get people to pitch in for your kid's tuition, but it is an apparent perversion of the Kickstarter rules, and there are crowdfunding platforms out there that would have allowed it without seeming dodgy. Kickstarter being okay with it is equally disappointing, but not terribly surprising.
I also really, really don't like the branding present on the merchandise being promised as rewards. That particular thing does seem opportunistic, and raises the worrying possibility that mom's gonna try to cash in on this by launching Keep Up as a movement.
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