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Sony: Naughty Dog will be on Vita, all of our studios [Naughty Dog: Nope]

Hyuga

Banned
Don't lump zipper with other great sony studios. If there is one developer from sony that deserves the firesale it's those guys who managed to ruin one of the greatest game series ever in socom. Seth luisi, i hope you're proud of what you have accomplished.

This!
Kick "Zipper" and buy "Ready At Dawn" :-/
 
Speaking of Naughty Dog, their Uncharted TV in Uncharted 3 promotes:

- videos from UC3 making off and multiplayer, as expected;

- a trailer for the Uncharted Dual Pack;

- a trailer for The Last of Us.

- Nothing, nada, jack, zilch on Uncharted: Golden Abyss.

Why is that, don't they like Golden Abyss?
 
wow the reaction at this thread, I'm pretty sure Arne's comment is more a long the like of "we currently have no plan for vita yet, just to inform you before you have the wrong expectation and be disappointed". and not "lol handheld. Vita is beneath our standard"
 
wow the reaction at this thread, I'm pretty sure Arne's comment is more a long the like of "we currently have no plan for vita yet, just to inform you before you have the wrong expectation and be disappointed". and not "lol handheld. Vita is beneath our standard"

yeah, and also in the update:

"Given the brackets (to indicate an implication on the part of the quote) I'm sure this was a misunderstanding to the question that was being posed."
 
I am actually rather surprised that Naughty Dog actually directly responded in this thread, and even saying "nope!" openly like that.

I can understand if, for example, it's to dispel news from some random site or blogger, but this is a statement that came from Sony itself. To said "nope!" like that is like openly admitting to the public that there's this hilarious disconnect between the folks at ND and the folks at Sony--a rather bad image that I'm not sure is a wise thing to imply since ND is fully owned by Sony after all.

hmm.. maybe ND is pulling a Jaffe?
 

DiscoJer

Member
wow the reaction at this thread, I'm pretty sure Arne's comment is more a long the like of "we currently have no plan for vita yet, just to inform you before you have the wrong expectation and be disappointed". and not "lol handheld. Vita is beneath our standard"

He also said

we've always felt that consoles play to our strengths as a studio the best

Which is admittedly a nice way of saying it, but pretty much means ""lol handheld. Vita is beneath our standard"

He could just have just left it at "We have no plans at this time."
 

XOMTOR

Member
They are putting their best teams on it; Liverpool had a game for launch, Zypper as well, Media Molecule is working on a game, Cambridge and Guerrilla are making Killzone. SCE Worldwide Studios is more than Naughty Dog.

I thought Killzone Vita was being done by Nihilistic not Guerrilla. Also, is LBP Vita being done by Media Molecule? I thought it heard it was another studio.
 

StuBurns

Banned
I thought Killzone Vita was being done by Nihilistic not Guerrilla. Also, is LBP Vita being done by Media Molecule? I thought it heard it was another studio.
Nihilistic are on Resistance, Cambridge are on KZ, Tarsier are on LBP, MM are on a new IP for PSV.
 
He also said



Which is admittedly a nice way of saying it, but pretty much means ""lol handheld. Vita is beneath our standard"

He could just have just left it at "We have no plans at this time."

eh, I think you're thinking too much into his comment. really, it's even possible that the reason they don't make a vita game is simply because Sony told them not to. they've committed that Last of Us will be their next big franchise after Uncharted, and after Uncharted series success, Sony obviously would want them to continue make Uncharted games.

really, as soon as ND revealed Last of Us, pretty much every one conclude that the other team will be making Uncharted 4 for PS4 even though ND didn't say it, they even make comment that perhaps the uncharted team will make Jak games after Last of Us team passed on Jak reboot.

and no one is getting angry at ND when they reveal Last of Us for PS3 instead of Vita. the possibility of ND making a Vita games is exciting, but something I always thought of too good to be true. the fact that they didn't make it sucks to be sure, but it's not something I can fault ND because they already did more than any other studio did of just another sequels.
 

StuBurns

Banned
Got it. Thanks Stu. Cambridge is a decent studio right, so they'll hopefully do Killzone justice.
Yeah, I'm excited to see that game, there are some really smart guys over there, and LBP PSP was better than it's console counterparts, so I won't be surprised if KZ PSV is great.
 
lol, that certainly wasn't what dragged THQ down. Really poor comparison.

You just don't get how the industry works. Many people are in it because it's something they're passionate about. People join the game industry knowing there are going to be longer hours and less pay/benefits compared to a similar position in a different industry, because the tradeoff is a fun and creative environment where you can work on things you love. Now... it certainly doesn't always work that way, because I doubt anyone dreams about working on licensed dreck, but someone has to make it. Just like someone has to make the handheld games. But the people making those typically aren't the top tier talent, they're the people advancing their careers to move up and out of that. The best and brightest of the industry don't have to work on projects that don't interest them, and their talent is such that they can dictate that... and that's part of the allure of the job.

Sure, there are some people out there who truly love handhelds, and there are some people out there who get a kick out of seeing how much they can draw out of less powerful hardware, but it simply isn't something that motivates the majority of western developers.

That's no way to run a business. ND as a 1st party studio have the responsibility to work in whatever Sony needs them to work. If they want to work in what they want, they should look to be an independent studio or leave ND. Sony owns ND, thus ND must operate in the way they better attend the needs of Sony. They should never cater to the ego of their developers and neglect the needs of the business.

Sony got ND not to be creative for the sake of being creative and talented, they need them to be creative in a way they cater to the needs of Sony. That's the sole reason why they were bought and remain hired.

If Yoshida isn't able to get all SCEWWS to comply with their Vita strategy the platform will fail. Simple as that.

P.S. You seem to have a rather romantic outlook of a working environment so can you tell me what do you do for a living?
 
That's no way to run a business. ND as a 1st party studio have the responsibility to work in whatever Sony needs them to work. If they want to work in what they want, they should look to be an independent studio or leave ND. Sony owns ND, thus ND must operate in the way they better attend the needs of Sony. They should never cater to the ego of their developers and neglect the needs of the business.

Sony got ND not to be creative for the sake of being creative and talented, they need them to be creative in a way they cater to the needs of Sony. That's the sole reason why they were bought and remain hired.

that's a very simplistic way to look at things. anyone who worked on Uncharted 2 can probably get a job anywhere more desirable at the expense of a phone-call, (see: The Last of Us), so what you just said is very, very dumb, albeit true.
 
that's a very simplistic way to look at things. anyone who worked on Uncharted 2 can probably get a job anywhere more desirable at the expense of a phone-call, (see: The Last of Us), so what you just said is very, very dumb, albeit true.

They might be able to get a better job and boost their ego cause of their "lol handheld bias" but what good it does to Sony to have studio like ND and not be able use them as they see fit? That's worst than just replacing the roles they occupy at the moment.

Besides I see ex-ND developers leaving the company for other ventures all the time. There's no longer loyalty in the workplace. So it isn't like allowing them to do what they want has prevented some of the developers from leaving.

P.S I look at things in the most simplistic way possible, that way I don't get hang up in the subjective bullshit that's used most of the time.
 

Spiegel

Member
that's a very simplistic way to look at things. anyone who worked on Uncharted 2 can probably get a job anywhere more desirable at the expense of a phone-call, (see: The Last of Us), so what you just said is very, very dumb, albeit true.

Naughty Dog has 2 full HD teams (200+ people?). It would be nice if a small part of them could gather and make some PSN (PS3/PSV) game at least. And it doesn't have to be very big, I would be happy with a smaller project like Shadow Complex or similar PSN games.

It could be good to take a break from these 100+ people, cinematic projects.

Am I mistaken? Aren't you owned by SCE?


Yes. They are Sony, not a second party
 

Baki

Member
Its probably nothing to do with Naughty Dog and everything to do with Sony. Sony probably wants ND working on the PS4 as opposed to the Vita.
 

StuBurns

Banned
Eh, I could rant, but quite simply, I knew it. Lot of hot air.

Team Ico probably not touching the Vita either.
I think they're more likely than anyone really. If there is a Team Ico post-TLG, given how slow that team is, and how popular their games are, PS4 would be a bad choice.
 
Its probably nothing to do with Naughty Dog and everything to do with Sony. Sony probably wants ND working on the PS4 as opposed to the Vita.

So here we have a quote from a head executive at Sony saying that all of their studios will be working on Vita, even though it may not be true at the moment, we can at least say that's the expression of a sentiment that they want all their studios committed to the platform. We also have Arne saying "nope, we feel our strengths are better suited for consoles"

How are you getting from those statements that Sony doesn't want them working on their nascent platform?
 

gogogow

Member
Anyways back to the thread, i can see where some people are coming from. How can you expect your hardware to succeed if you dont put your best teams behind it?

Personally i want a gran turismo vita

PD are probably one of the few first party who actually made an game for Sony's handheld by themselves.

God of War not done by SMS
Daxter/Last Frontier not done by ND
Resistance not done by IG
Motorstorm not done by Evolution
LBP done by Cambridge in conjunction with Media Molecule

games done by original dev:
Everybody's Golf

Anymore?
 

StuBurns

Banned
So here we have a quote from a head executive at Sony saying that all of their studios will be working on Vita, even though it may not be true at the moment, we can at least say that's the expression of a sentiment that they want all their studios committed to the platform. We also have Arne saying "nope, we feel our strengths are better suited for consoles"

How are you getting from those statements that Sony doesn't want them working on their nascent platform?
I see two possible situations, ND haven't even discussed it with Sony, and are happy to say 'lol' essentially, or they have spoken to Sony, and know they won't be forced to work on PSV, so are confident enough to mention it on GAF. That sounds a lot more likely to me.

EDIT: I just watched the interview, it really doesn't seem like he's saying ND will make a PSV game at all. He's just inarticulate, as are more people being interviewed.

This is what exactly was asked:
Now what about the top top studios, we hear there's certainly games coming out from studios, but the Uncharted game's not being done by Naughty Dog, and you've got amazing studios, Media Molecule, Guerrilla, Sony Santa Monica, will we see any of those guys playing with Vita, or even Naughty Dog?

And he just sort of fumbles and confirms, but he says a number of games from 'all our studios', I don't think he literally means every single one. We know MM are on PSV, we know Guerrila are co-developing KZ with Cambridge, and have a number of teams elsewhere that could be on PSV, SSM moving to a two team studio seems on the cards at some point. It seems very possible he was only addressing the initial three he was asked, not he ND aside at the end.
 
Lol @ people bringing up Infinity Ward. Activision dumped the staff; modern warfare still enjoys massive sales. The individual talent is ultimately meaningless. It's the culture that matters.
 
new update to the title made me laugh when I saw it.

Sony: "ND, work on some Vita games."

ND: "nope."

Sony:

tumblr_lfx3i001iW1qffb2t.jpg
 

Kafel

Banned
Sure. I'm a producer at EA on The Sims 3.

haha


Any chance the Vita and its awesome guts change views on the matter a little ? I mean, devs have to be as excited as us to discover this machine, no ?

They don't tend to play more and more on the go like us ?
 

Spiegel

Member
PD are probably one of the few first party who actually made an game for Sony's handheld by themselves.

God of War not done by SMS
Daxter/Last Frontier not done by ND
Resistance not done by IG
Motorstorm not done by Evolution
LBP done by Cambridge in conjunction with Media Molecule

games done by original dev:
Everybody's Golf

Anymore?

Liverpool, Guerrilla and Zipper worked on psp games
 
Yes. They are Sony, not a second party

That's even worse then. How is Sony so impotent that they can't exert control over their own arm?

What this indicates to me is that SCE has no interest in ND developing for Vita. The guy from the OP was probably just speaking out of turn.
 

Vilam

Maxis Redwood
Well you win. Bow.

It's all good man. Maybe the industry has some growing up to do still, but a lot of people get into it because they dream of working on (insert favorite title here) and don't consider the business aspect of it. The business side is still a reality of course, and people tend to get a crash course in that when their dream conflicts with the bottom line. But at the end of the day the project you're working on means years out of your life, and people who are creative and love the industry and the advancements in gaming typically don't want to be restricted by handheld hardware.

I'm not an executive, but I still feel pretty safe saying you shouldn't take your best talent and put them on something they're not happy and motivated to be working on. Talent gets poached in this industry - hell, it's a common occurrence from what I've seen. Why help it along by making your best and brightest want to move on?
 

Massa

Member
Liverpool, Guerrilla and Zipper worked on PSP

Polyphony Digital as well.

But it's not really about who works on the game and rather how much resources and attention they get from SCE marketing. One of the great things about the gaming industry is that a small studio like Ready at Dawn can make a better God of War game than SSM, but that doesn't matter much when Sony spends a fraction of the budget promoting it.
 
I see two possible situations, ND haven't even discussed it with Sony, and are happy to say 'lol' essentially, or they have spoken to Sony, and know they won't be forced to work on PSV, so are confident enough to mention it on GAF. That sounds a lot more likely to me.

That's a shameful statement for Sony and their Vita strategy regardless of the 2 scenarios.

DeaconKnowledge said:
Lol @ people bringing up Infinity Ward. Activision dumped the staff; modern warfare still enjoys massive sales. The individual talent is ultimately meaningless. It's the culture that matters.

Correct, corporate culture is always more important than individual talent. All individual roles can be replaced with the correct hiring practices. Developers that think that they are irreplaceable have multiple examples to see they aren't.
 

StuBurns

Banned
That's a shameful statement for Sony and their Vita strategy regardless of the 2 scenarios.
I think it's great personally, but we should agree to disagree.

EDIT: And I'm surprised people think MW3 was MW1/2 quality, I certainly don't, but it's subjective indeed.
 

Kyoufu

Member
Well it makes sense that your premier first party studio works on PS3 and the upcoming PS4. I wouldn't put them on handhelds either.

I would however get SCEJ on it. Including Polyphony.
 
It's all good man. Maybe the industry has some growing up to do still, but a lot of people get into it because they dream of working on (insert favorite title here) and don't consider the business aspect of it. The business side is still a reality of course, and people tend to get a crash course in that when their dream conflicts with the bottom line. But at the end of the day the project you're working on means years out of your life, and people who are creative and love the industry and the advancements in gaming typically don't want to be restricted by handheld hardware.

I'm not an executive, but I still feel pretty safe saying you shouldn't take your best talent and put them on something they're not happy and motivated to be working on. Talent gets poached in this industry - hell, it's a common occurrence from what I've seen. Why help it along by making your best and brightest want to move on?

I see your point but I disagree, Sony is in the business to make money, not make developers boost their egos, the "lol handhelds" bias has no room within a company trying to succeed in the mobile/portable/handheld gaming arena. They need all their studios on board.

Besides I feel that's just a shortsighted excuse for not developing for handheld. Gaming is about providing interactive experiences and ND, if they are as good as they claim they are (and the Industry thinks they are) should tackle on the challenge of creating an awesome game in the platform Sony needs them to deliver with gusto, not groans and bitching and acting as if is beneath them. That sounds like pretentious posturing bullshit because of their egos.
 
I think it's great personally, but we should agree to disagree.

EDIT: And I'm surprised people think MW3 was MW1/2 quality, I certainly don't, but it's subjective indeed.

'Quality', or rather the degree of gained or lost 'quality', is irrelevant to Activision, and SCE. MW3 is selling in the same wheelhouse of the first two. That's all that matters to Activision.
 

Massa

Member
'Quality', or rather the degree of gained or lost 'quality', is irrelevant to SCE. MW3 is selling in the same wheelhouse of the first two. That's all that matters to them.

Sales are down from last year, they had to cancel the game Sledgehammer was working on and in a few years they'll have even stronger competition in the form of Respawn's own game, heavily marketed by EA.

Not exactly a win-win situation for Activision. FWIW I think MW3 is a much better game than MW2, but that's not relevant.
 
Sales are down from last year, they had to cancel the game Sledgehammer was working on and in a few years they'll have even stronger competition in the form of Respawn's own game, heavily marketed by EA.

Not exactly a win-win situation for Activision. FWIW I think MW3 is a much better game than MW2, but that's not relevant.

Modern warfare has also seen a massive uptick in competition, as well as themselves being deep into the Maturity phase of their product lifecycle. These are the reasons for the diminished sales, not West and Zampella getting too big for their britches and being released.
 

StuBurns

Banned
'Quality', or rather the degree of gained or lost 'quality', is irrelevant to Activision, and SCE. MW3 is selling in the same wheelhouse of the first two. That's all that matters to Activision.
I don't think that's true, I think Activision would have preferred to hold on to that talent if they could (they only canned two guys, the rest bailed, many were forced to stay to get their completion bonus from MW2). And Sony specifically started Team ICO for the sake of 'Art', even now they've blown so much cash they continue to support that stuff. It's true they're in a business, and they need to make money, but it's not the single driving force of every decision made.

Maybe SCE will go under, maybe their management direction is terrible, but while it is what it is, I'm glad, I think it's right to allow someone like ND to work on the consoles if that's their preference.

I don't want the art debate (and personally, I don't consider games to be art), but that freedom to be creative, and to put weight on your studio's talent, put people out as the figure heads of games is a positive thing, even if it's ultimately bad for your company.

EDIT: Ironically, MW3 feels a lot like UC3, it feels like a knock off to me. It made sense in MW3, it doesn't make sense in UC3, so maybe the talent was meaningless really.
 

Vaporizer

Banned
I see your point but I disagree, Sony is in the business to make money, not make developers boost their egos, the "lol handhelds" bias has no room within a company trying to succeed in the mobile/portable/handheld gaming arena. They need all their studios on board.

Besides I feel that's just a shortsighted excuse for not developing for handheld. Gaming is about providing interactive experiences and ND, if they are as good as they claim they are (and the Industry thinks they are) should tackle on the challenge of creating an awesome game in the platform Sony needs them to deliver with gusto, not groans and bitching and acting as if is beneath them. That sounds like pretentious posturing bullshit because of their egos.

well said.

I remember Polyphony making gt psp in the midst of developing for GT5. They could have simply went 'lol not right now'
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
Good god. Some Sony fans get FUCKING VICIOUS when they see a "threat" to the Vita's success, don't they? Naughty Dog was their darling when they were making great PS3 games, but the slightest hint that they might not want to make games for the Vita and FUCK THOSE GUYS SLIT THEIR THROATS BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD SONY IS ALL.

Sure. I'm a producer at EA on The Sims 3.

lol

That was COLD BLOOOOODEEEED

<>
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Sony best allow Tarsier to finish The City of Metronome after the studio is done playing second fiddle to the LBP IP.
 

Massa

Member
Good god. Some Sony fans get FUCKING VICIOUS when they see a "threat" to the Vita's success, don't they? Naughty Dog was their darling when they were making great PS3 games, but the slightest hint that they might not want to make games for the Vita and FUCK THOSE GUYS SLIT THEIR THROATS BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD SONY IS ALL.

It's not necessarily about being Vita fanboys, you can find the exact same arguments when it was announced Uncharted 3 wouldn't have Move support. And it wasn't just people disappointed by it, some would argue that it's the job of every Sony first party studio to tick the box of every feature and platform Sony makes.
 

Duffyside

Banned
Guys. GUYS! Sony saying you will see Naughty Dog on the Vita did not ever mean that Naughty Dog were already working on a title. Yes, some of you are right in saying "well they would never force Naughty Dog to do it for risk of blah blah blah." But that doesn't mean that Sony, as the parent company, can't strongly suggest and hint and incentivize Vita development. Shit, it really isn't even that complicated. "Wow, you Naughty Dogs sure are great! We'd really be honored if you were to make a game for the Vita! Man... that would be so AWESOME! We'd even be willing to give you X... oh, you're really interested in doing that, you say?"

Finish Last of Us and Uncharted 4 for PS4, and then evaluate where things are and a Vita game may come. Not to mention both of those other games might have Vita functionality. In fact, I will go so far to say as The Last of Us will be on the Vita in some respect.
 
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