sublimit
Banned
Because he's a badass. lol
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Why DmC's Dante is a Bad Character (Video)
- Thread starter HyperBitHero
- Start date
Because he's a badass. lol
Honestly, I'd might be more receptive to DINO if he just didn't say "Fuck" as many times as possible.
A little class goes a long way; He could have written his name in the same scrawl on the list and it would have worked perfectly as a Bond like reply to the bouncer, for example.
A little class goes a long way; He could have written his name in the same scrawl on the list and it would have worked perfectly as a Bond like reply to the bouncer, for example.
I'll be disappointed if the plot ends up just as cheesy as the old games. The plot was the main reason I was interested in Ninja Theory's adaptation.
NoirVisage
Banned
then you don't know what you're talking about either. Dante in the original is a lot more nuanced than people gave him credit for being, aside form the one liners, he wasn't a sadist, and felt "cool" was his duty being as bad-a as he is, they managed to build on this in later installments, almost everything about his design has a point, he is the "good guy" in red, the outsider with white hair with the blood of a devil (yokai), and invincible to the point where he can get lazy (blade of the immortal) common themes out east that obviously don't translate well over here.
Seems like a well-put together video but I couldn't get behind it because of all the assumptions you put out there, both in terms of what has gone on during development (basing his personality entirely on one trailer versus another, for example) and not waiting until the finished product is in our hands (which might explain a lot of the changes in characterization, so the complaining is premature).
I think that's a bunch of crap.
TheJollyCorner
Member
I've been staying in the dark regarding this game, but HOLY SHIT this looks horrible.
:/
This. Ugh...
:/
This. Ugh...
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
It's interesting to note how you didn't feel inclined to mention that in your video. (or did you? haven't watched it) How the boss has like 5 different stages with 5 complete, separate health bars. Invariably making that sequence something that takes off in reality less than 10% of the bosses total health.
And it's not like any of the previous DMC's games had overpowered, broken, or abusable gameplay mechanics. It seems that person is canceling the animation of the attack the same way you did it in DMC1: /\, /\ (waggle analog stick), /\ /\ etc. etc. x's infinity.
"Flock off, feather-face."
Clearly "fuck" is the cool word of today. It makes the character seem edgy, lol. Am, I right, NT?
NoirVisage
Banned
you're free to check everything i mentioned, unless you prefer to just be contrary because i disagree with your opinion.
you don't see any action hero in the west wearing all red anything, Dante is full of tropes that the new characters personality clash with.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
Unfortunately you have no way of distinguishing between me not understanding it vs. me understanding and not thinking it's good. All you can do is ask yourself "Does this person disagree with me? If yes, then it must be that he doesn't understand Dante the way I do."
I can agree with your point that the context is different between old and new DMC games. In this one the story is front and center and therefore Dante is supposed to have some level of quality as a character. And I'm not arguing that he does or doesn't live up to that because how could I possible know?
I agree with most points in the video but I can't agree with the final closing comments about NTs outlook on the game. Those are assumptions, we don't really know what they actually think of DMC series and we don't know how hard they are working on the project.
I think there was an Assassins Creed dev who said similar comments about Japanese games and writing especially pointing out Bayonetta but I don't think NT has ever said something along those lines.
I think there was an Assassins Creed dev who said similar comments about Japanese games and writing especially pointing out Bayonetta but I don't think NT has ever said something along those lines.
Interesting video. Assumptions and opinions that I don't really agree with, but can respect.
Sorry to jump into this conversation, but Daredevil.
Sorry to jump into this conversation, but Daredevil.
RealDeadOne
Member
Sorry, I thought you were implying that it was not meant to be satirical at all, not that you thought the satire was poorly done.
Though like I said I won't argue that Dante is a good character or well-written in the least bit, especially since I'm not really a fan of the series in the first place. I just think a self-serious reinterpretation of the series is conceptually misguided. But I'll wait for the game to be out before saying that the character is objectively poorly written.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
I don't think people realize how much profanity is so commonly used in every day conversation. How many times you actually hear it in a day. It's probably only jarring in a sense that capcom's Dante abnormally never swore. While NT's Dante, is swearing. I still don't think it's out of line. It's not like he's constantly swearing durring gameplay like a problem that occupies a lot of FPS/shooters.
evil_ash_xero
Banned
The old Dante was kind of like...well, honestly he reminded me of an "extreme!" version of Mutant Turtles. lol It was pretty silly. Likeable though.
I mean, him surfing on a rocket was so stupid, but funny as hell. It really did remind me of TMNT.
This seems like they got a really annoying character, and are taking it very seriously.
The character seems like someone you'd want to kick in the balls.
Another thing...Dante was a joke character, but was one of the coolest looking characters EVER. Why mess with that?
Also, if you're gonna curse all the time, at least be funny or something with it. Just don't scream "fuck you!". It's just...well, it sounds like some teenager wrote it.
The cursing in Platinum Games' titles is funny....I mean, the writing is bad, but it still makes you laugh.
Also, the facial animations say it all. They did too good a job of making him look like an angsty teen. And we all hate them.
He sort of reminds me of an annoying version of Grant Morrison's Marvel Boy.
However that was a better use of profanity. He actually scorched "FUCK YOU" across a city, to show SHIELD what he thought of them. Much funnier than just kicking some bouncer's ass.
I mean, him surfing on a rocket was so stupid, but funny as hell. It really did remind me of TMNT.
This seems like they got a really annoying character, and are taking it very seriously.
The character seems like someone you'd want to kick in the balls.
Another thing...Dante was a joke character, but was one of the coolest looking characters EVER. Why mess with that?
Also, if you're gonna curse all the time, at least be funny or something with it. Just don't scream "fuck you!". It's just...well, it sounds like some teenager wrote it.
The cursing in Platinum Games' titles is funny....I mean, the writing is bad, but it still makes you laugh.
Also, the facial animations say it all. They did too good a job of making him look like an angsty teen. And we all hate them.
He sort of reminds me of an annoying version of Grant Morrison's Marvel Boy.
However that was a better use of profanity. He actually scorched "FUCK YOU" across a city, to show SHIELD what he thought of them. Much funnier than just kicking some bouncer's ass.
NoirVisage
Banned
don't be sorry about anything..except for wiki linking daredevil. any self respecting geel knows who daredevil is, thats like wiki linking water each time you mention it.
It's because most of the time it's not used in a particularly clever or well thought-out way in gaming.
Yeah, people swear a lot in real life, but in most game writing it doesn't feel natural. It feels dumb.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
Because swearing in real life is the best way to project an individual's unparalleled intelligence right?
NoirVisage
Banned
actually read what he's saying, he's talking about the FEEL of dumb.
I get what you're saying, but when I'm saying dumb I'm saying it as in "trying too hard to be edgy".
If writers in gaming wrote profanity like Tarantino I'd have no problems with that.
I do recall Tameem saying that they don't want to follow Bayonetta because it's "too Japanesey". Dunno but sounds pretty offensive to me.
Capital_Five
Member
Emo try-hard cool was way better than hipster try-hard cool. Swooping white bangs are obviously better character design than generic black hair. So cliche now.
I don't know if we should take Tameem as the standard for all of NT. That dude says a lot of dumb stuff which is why we haven't seen him for a long time. Good thing too.
I thought you weren't giving a shit about these threads until the game releases?
Classic Dante is in Project X Zone, you can still try and hope it succeeds in Japan and gets localized.
I didn't play the old DMCs, but the footage I saw from them gave the impression of Dante focusing on being stylish, playful and kinda carefree, this one is too openly antagonistic - if that was restricted to the demons mentioned in the plot, and his verbal comebacks were blunt arguments about what's his problem about them, the remade character would feel less like a prick who lashes out emptily at just anyone for no reason.
I didn't play the old DMCs, but the footage I saw from them gave the impression of Dante focusing on being stylish, playful and kinda carefree, this one is too openly antagonistic - if that was restricted to the demons mentioned in the plot, and his verbal comebacks were blunt arguments about what's his problem about them, the remade character would feel less like a prick who lashes out emptily at just anyone for no reason.
Come on dude wait until the game is out to actually make a video like this.
The ultimate irony is that you state ninja theory doesn't respect the original devil may cry, but how can you respect ninja theory to make a video like this when the game isn't even out. What if all the flaws and criticisms you have with the character allow the new dante to follow an arc that makes him more dynamic and interesting that the old dante could never have been. Stating that a character who's been traumatized should act like some silent secluded person yet have you never met someone who hid their emotions with a cocky attitude and jokes? Now I don't care either way because I was never a super fan of the old devil may cry and never found him to be an interesting character to begin with, but I think your predisposition to the new dante is a little immature until you actually play through the game.
The ultimate irony is that you state ninja theory doesn't respect the original devil may cry, but how can you respect ninja theory to make a video like this when the game isn't even out. What if all the flaws and criticisms you have with the character allow the new dante to follow an arc that makes him more dynamic and interesting that the old dante could never have been. Stating that a character who's been traumatized should act like some silent secluded person yet have you never met someone who hid their emotions with a cocky attitude and jokes? Now I don't care either way because I was never a super fan of the old devil may cry and never found him to be an interesting character to begin with, but I think your predisposition to the new dante is a little immature until you actually play through the game.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Subscibing to this thread for after the debut to see just who's right. For the record, DINO made me sneer in disgust on first sight, and well, Ninja Theory.
I do sometimes think of Tameem as NT which is a shame because Im sure the team are a great bunch of people but using Tameem as the PR guy is just disastrous for their image. The guy makes Bobby Kotick likable in comparison.
I'll just echo my thoughts along with a few others.
I feel that this video is WAY too premature and you're making the the crux of your argument on pure speculation and assumptions. Which is unfair.
Regarding the profanity. It's easy to single out that line and compare it to DMC's previous best lines, but it's extremely unfair, and ignorant, to assume that's the best DmC can offer. Hell, during the ending sequence to that same boss fight, there was a great finishing line that was somber and it showed some character and humanity to Dante. That was great, but you didn't mention it at all. I think it's upsetting you put it in your video, and I think it's even more appalling that people are ok with it.
In any case, I'm sure you're set on your beliefs regarding this game. The haters now have their video that they'll pass around to ad-nauseam, even when the game is released, and when the game itself has disputed this argument.
I feel that this video is WAY too premature and you're making the the crux of your argument on pure speculation and assumptions. Which is unfair.
Regarding the profanity. It's easy to single out that line and compare it to DMC's previous best lines, but it's extremely unfair, and ignorant, to assume that's the best DmC can offer. Hell, during the ending sequence to that same boss fight, there was a great finishing line that was somber and it showed some character and humanity to Dante. That was great, but you didn't mention it at all. I think it's upsetting you put it in your video, and I think it's even more appalling that people are ok with it.
In any case, I'm sure you're set on your beliefs regarding this game. The haters now have their video that they'll pass around to ad-nauseam, even when the game is released, and when the game itself has disputed this argument.
This isn't going to do much because the haters will hate the game after it is released and the lovers will love it anyway. So everyone is going to think they won.
Yeah funny how things changed, a year after Tameem said that Alex Jones contradicted by saying they want to top Bayonetta.
NoirVisage
Banned
"and for that absurd style it does that really well, but that's not what I want."
thats the short and tall of it. what he wants, the character smacks of that sentiment, everything from his look to his personality.
I'll wait until the game is out to judge. Yea, he is an obnoxious brat but it seems like he is written that way intentionally. This is an origin story and he is most likely written that way early in to show character development later in the narrative.
Even if the character is a failure, anything is better than the old Dante who was the most cliched, dorky fucking character ever created. He was the very definition of what a sheltered anime nerd would think is cool. Unfortunately I think this is a primary cause of the blowback the redesign gets.
Even if the character is a failure, anything is better than the old Dante who was the most cliched, dorky fucking character ever created. He was the very definition of what a sheltered anime nerd would think is cool. Unfortunately I think this is a primary cause of the blowback the redesign gets.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
I think the point the video makes about them changing the character to appease the fans is a really solid one, things might have been more interesting if they kept him angsty, unstable and sadistic.
evil_ash_xero
Banned
Do people really like Ninja Theory's games, anyway?
When MGS was announced, a lot of MGS fans went batshit. But, those of us who have played Platinum's games know they will rock that genre well. Even if it's not stealth(which is why the MGS fans were/are upset).
This is giving a game to a developer, who are FAR lesser than Capcom(even without Kamiya), or Platinum at this style of game.
Does Ninja Theory have some legion of fans, in hiding?
When MGS was announced, a lot of MGS fans went batshit. But, those of us who have played Platinum's games know they will rock that genre well. Even if it's not stealth(which is why the MGS fans were/are upset).
This is giving a game to a developer, who are FAR lesser than Capcom(even without Kamiya), or Platinum at this style of game.
Does Ninja Theory have some legion of fans, in hiding?
We don't. OG Dante doesn't curse, that's all. Going from no cursing to writing "FUCK YOU!" on a guest list is quite the leap. I curse like a sailor, so I'm cool with that.
NotoriousLynx
Banned
I'm sorry, but have you played the entire game already? I'm completely neutral to games until they are released and this video makes me feel like you aren't being objective (but I do like how you split new Dante up into two reflections: comparing him to old Dante or viewing him as a completely new entity) and fairly disrespectful yourself. CraftySkills put my thoughts on this video in his post:
CraftySkills said:
Majima Everywhere System
Member
This guy seems like he lost his best bud, who was a video game man named Dante. They are both silly, but I'm not as turned off by the new Dante as he is turned on by the old one.
Heart of Black
Member
I had to click away after a minute. Besides being about a character from a game that isn't even out yet....
It sounded like some run on sentence without any evidence to back it up. Next video - take some time to breath, and in that time, show facts to support your points.
And play the whole game first.
It sounded like some run on sentence without any evidence to back it up. Next video - take some time to breath, and in that time, show facts to support your points.
And play the whole game first.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
Well the action looks good at least. And yeah, LOL at the "fuck you, fuck you, fuck yooouuu!" part.
You just don't get it. It's "real" and "edgy" which I hear is what the kids are in to these days.
You just don't get it. It's "real" and "edgy" which I hear is what the kids are in to these days.
At first he was hated because he was so different, so they tweak the design and give him more of that smart ass attitude and now they are just trying too hard. Let's face it, this new DMC is going to be hated by a certain group no matter what Ninja Theory does. As for me, I was never a big fan of the originals to begin with, so am more than happy with the new direction. No, the combat will not be as in depth or run at 60 FPS, but the level design looks tripped out and the boss battles look fun as hell. I'm down for it.
Why would the OP talk about the gameplay in a video that is not even a little bit about the gameplay?