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DmC DLC!!! (Play as Vergil)
- Thread starter rockman zx
- Start date
Completely agree, I love RE6's combat and I'm already sad that they'll probably cut it from next games because of the misplaced complains.
I did. I've already stated numerous times why I think that it's a differenet situation entirely, and not really comparable to the DLC distribution model.
To all you DLC supporters, let me ask you. How did game developers afford to put additional characters and modes in their games during the PS2 era?
ViewtifulJC
Banned
We have no idea how it long it takes to develop these ideas, what the budget is, the manpower to create an entire new character, new levels, weapons, environments, bosses, voice acting, sound design, etc, etc.
At the end of the day, the DmC you're getting is the exact same one you were or were not getting yesterday, before any of this was even brought up. If it was worth your money then, it should be worth your money now. If you think the dessert should be included with the entree to be "complete", that's on you.
Of course it's on us. I don't think anyone's arguing that. What is acceptable is different to different people.
robotzombie
Member
Directors cuts of movies, straight to dvd sequels, exclusive bonus tracks on albums, soft cover versions of books with extra chapters, paying to join a website to gain bonus material/remove ads, those were just off the top of my head
robotzombie
Member
Um...because it was less expensive to create the games in the first place? Did you really have to ask that?
Edit: sorry for double post, I figured there would be responses after my last one
Plans for DLCs are incorporated into the game design document very early in a game's development process nowadays. The Vergil DLC was most likely planned from the start to be post release DLC. While it's true that they didn't exactly make the full game and then cut out Vergil's missions to be sold as DLC... it was a conscious decision beforehand that the Vergil segment would be a separate entity from the main game on day 1.
And before anyone accuses me of working with Capcom or some garbage statement like that... I do have enough friends working in the gaming industry to know what goes on there.
I don't personally agree with this practice at all. I believe that whatever they plan for a game in the initial GDD is what the consumer should be getting on day 1 for their $60. After the game is released the developers/publishers should come back to the game and assess what they can add on top of it or improve it. I also realize that even when something is intended to be a full package in the GDD, sometimes stuff gets cut from it due to scheduling or release dates and that cut stuff sort of hangs in limbo until it is either used in a sequel (like from Darksiders 1 to DS2) or an expansion.
The best DLC of this generation is still the first Burnout Paradise DLC. It was completely free post release content after which they worked on more post release content and then charged for that.
And before anyone accuses me of working with Capcom or some garbage statement like that... I do have enough friends working in the gaming industry to know what goes on there.
I don't personally agree with this practice at all. I believe that whatever they plan for a game in the initial GDD is what the consumer should be getting on day 1 for their $60. After the game is released the developers/publishers should come back to the game and assess what they can add on top of it or improve it. I also realize that even when something is intended to be a full package in the GDD, sometimes stuff gets cut from it due to scheduling or release dates and that cut stuff sort of hangs in limbo until it is either used in a sequel (like from Darksiders 1 to DS2) or an expansion.
The best DLC of this generation is still the first Burnout Paradise DLC. It was completely free post release content after which they worked on more post release content and then charged for that.
But games also cost $10 less back then.
Because it was less expensive to make games back then and game prices have not gone up to match the increase in development costs.
Games are also selling for more, and there are a higher population of people playing. I'll concede that budgets for games today are outrageous, but their focus should be on making a better product and selling more copies, not stripping features.
Yes, I understand that fairies don't come around and make DLC, but in my ideal world, a pre-release team would not be devoted to DLC when they could be working on the main game, either refining it or speeding up the development process. All hands should be devoted to making the main game as good as it can possibly be. Once the game is released, it's released, and you can focus on additions.
You can then argue that you're getting an incomplete game that way. Resources and manpower were diverted away from the main game in order to make the DLC. They didn't hire an outside firm to create the DLC. They made an internal staff team.
Yet how expensive is it for them to be developing this game compared to previous gen titles in the series, especially when considering that it's outsourced? How expensive is it compared to this gen's DMC4 even, which included two playable characters by default?
GotchaForce
Member
They didn't, they waited and did repackings with extra content, ports and "sequels" that added small amounts of content. They also didn't do it so much back then because there was no infrastructure for it. If you don't think Mario, Zelda, FF, Street Fighter and all your favorite games from back in the day wouldn't have had dlc because of morals I don't know what to say. Heck, even in Japan super old school games had dlc and extra quests via stuff like flash cards and Satellaview and it was largely Nintendo who people hold as the last bastion of console purity.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Kamiya on Bayonetta DLC said:
Now this is a good developer.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Yeah, and reused and rehashed half the game's assets to do it
robotzombie
Member
You honestly couldn't figure out I meant net?
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
I don't even know how to approach such a question, but let me try.
First, budgets were different. The amount of people working on a game were different, and time schedules were different. So I've already established the apples vs. oranges scenario going on here. Secondly, anything a developer designs is a given input. Said input, requires "X" amount of resources. In todays games, the pricing and profit margrins are mostly the same, yet the amount of input has exponentially increased. HD games, higher audio/visual demands from the consumers, escalation of gameplay experiences etc. Because more input is required, additional money and development team is becoming more and more sparse, thus - you have less opportunity and resources to implement "additional/secret characters and modes" in a particular game. You certainly can, but that would require an increase in "input" - that can apparently only be recouped via DLC costs.
Again, if you're interested in the game. There is an option to acquire this DLC for free. If you're not interested in the DLC, but are of the game - than nothing as changed. The game that you were interested is the same game that has been advertised in the past several months. If you're not getting this game, than you're obviously not getting the DLC.
won't be getting my money.
Saint Gregory
Member
Aside from the straight to DVD sequels (I'm not sure why you thought to include those) those are decent examples.
The big difference here though, and the reason why people are getting increasingly pissed off at Capcom DLC, is that in those examples you never think that content is possibly being held back because those artist or directors want to exploit their fans for extra money. Bluray director's cuts are starting to approach that level consumer contempt (the LotR being the most obvious example) but as a whole it doesn't feel nearly as smarmy as what Capcom's been doing.
SFxT and DmC DLC both contain characters that arguably should be part of the main game and not optional downloads. I'm not going to argue that is definitely what Capcom is doing but it feels that way to me and it's only going to get worse if people continue to support it.
In an upgraded version of the game that cost, what, 20-30$.
Which wouldn't have stopped them from charging extra to unlock it if they felt like it.
I know exactly what you said but we don't really know exactly how much development costs have increased in relation to price differentials and how they actually need DLCs to recoup their dev costs.
Like for example... how many DLCs does a COD game REALLY need to make up the cost of its development? Sure a current COD game costs way more to make but it also sells way more than before.
There is really not enough hard data to be saying what is justified and what isn't. All we can do is share our feelings as a consumer while the developers talk about rising dev costs and how DLCs are a "necessity" these days. Not only that but in this particular case DmC is being outsourced which one has to assume is to cut costs.
I will continue to never buy DLC like these and I won't start with this game either. I just hope other consumers share the same feeling as me which obviously they don't because DLCs have become a standard this gen since the demand is there.
Elginer
Member
Ditto. I imagine the next RE will be slow and once again put tank controls in. Then everyone will cheer! The one's who enjoyed RE6 will groan and be pissed.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Is not the first time, but I'm always surprised when some people in GAF defends DLC that is made in the development cycle of a 60$/€ game.
ChosenPredator
Banned
I think im going to enjoy this game only because i wasn't much of fan of the other ones in the series so i can look at it in a new refreshing way without holding anything against it...I don't know maybe something is wrong with me but it looks fun to play <_<
I appreciate the response, but it still doesn't sit well with me that they plan in the very early stages what will be cut as DLC and then begin working on said cut DLC with a sub-team. It's so skeevy and disingenuous, and I can't fathom people being okay with it. I can sometimes tolerate it, but I still think it's ethically shady.
And I'm not sure how the reaction would have been if the DLC was free for any new purchases. There would absolutely have been some negativity surrounding it, but I certainly view it as fairer. Borderlands 2 did it, but it was very clear that Gaige was in the early stages near launch date.
robotzombie
Member
I said the DVD sequel thing because its people trying to cash in on a name with extra content that isn't necessary for the core experience.
Your last question is the real problem here. It's just as easily arguable that those things wouldn't be part of the main game. I mean Jesus, sfxt had like 38 characters out of the gate and that's not more than enough and more than most fighting games? You really think less than 50 characters is unreasonable? Not to mention the fact that no one is ever lying to you. In both cases capcom has told you upfront EXACTLY what is on the disc and what is DLC and you are free to decide if its worth your money.
Ethically shady? They aren't hiding anything or trying to deceive anyone in anyway. They produced a product and are free to chop it up and sell it for any price they see fit. Just as you are free to buy it or not at a price you deem worth it.
We can at least be glad that they are being nice and up front about everything. They aren't suddenly springing DLC on us a week after release that would suddenly make the game we're enjoying an empty non-complete game.
Er... they're learning something. They know you don't want it on the disc, so its not on the disc, even though it clearly makes no difference at all. What you're asking for now is another thing that makes no difference. Ok Capcom, make it downloadable, and don't tell me about it until the game is almost out, now my fragile mind is at ease.
Yes. It's disingenuous because the team that's working on the DLC should be working on the main game, and whatever content they've decided to keep in the main game.
This is obviously my opinion, and everyone has to make a value judgment for themselves.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
Game development doesn't exist in your ideal world. I wished it did though.
GuardianE said:
Again, it doesn't work like this. When the main pre-release development team is done with their tasks, yet the game is not ready to be shipped because other processes are yet required, there isn't anything left for them to do. The lead artist, programmer, combat designer, composer, design lead etc., have no business involved with many of the last leg portions of development before the game is certified and released.
GuardianE said:
Again, this is not how it works. Resources and manpower cannot be taken away if said resources and manpower have already completed what they needed to do. So, again - you don't fire people out of a development studio because they have completed their tasks. You aren't going to have them show up to Ninja Theories offices and do nothing and get paid while they wait for the other departments to finish up on the game before going gold. Instead, you put them to work. The main composer has no business being involved in the play testing, balancing, and bug checking portion of development. So instead, you exercise the idea of having him, let's say - work on a battle them for Vergil's DLC. This is just an example of how many of the core pre-release dev team, could be put to use when the game is essentially 'done' but not yet 'released.' But since whatever they are doing is beyond the planned budget of the main game, you effectively create a new budget for whatever they are working on that's separate from the main game. Thus, the pricing model for DLC.
Fake Dante and fake Vergil. This game is trash and a slap in the face to real Devil May Cry fans everywhere.
Elginer
Member
why is this dlc
As a way to get people to Preorder and get a bonus. It's about getting more sales for it, because Capcom knows you want it. I am looking forward to the game and already have it paid off, nice that I get a bonus DLC. They really need to include it all merchants though not just GameStop. That's some horseshit.
It actually is surprising how little video game prices have increased over the years even accounting for inflation.
Snapshot King
Member
I get what you're saying LHK, but in that interim period, teams used to either start pre-production on their next product or working within the same structure to create an expansion pack, which, surprisingly was much loved by people because they felt they were getting value back. It'd be better for everyone save for publishers to return to that model, but alas, those days are gone.
robotzombie
Member
Cool you've played it? What's the final boss fight like?
Only a week until the demo release.
It will be a glorious day.
It will be a glorious day.
Bad question because we sort of already know what the final boss is and this footage is pretty much a glimpse of what he would play like.
BeautifulMemory
Member
Would people agree, regardless of your stance on DLC, in this instance Capcom is at least trying to achieve some kind of balance between profit and consumer feedback? Really think this can work if Capcom didn't limit the bonus to just Gamestop.
That depends on which view you have on the game.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Oh, it'll be glorious either way.
"Wow, this game delivered on all my expectations! Feels soooo good to finally have in my hands! FUCK THE HATERS MY NIGGA"
"HAHAHAHA this game is a piece of shit, Ninja Shit strikes again, Kamiya have my babies, Platinum60fpsgamesMikami"
Snapshot King
Member
No, it's glorious one way or another. I mean, I'm in as much of the hate camp as you can get, and I'm hoping the demo proves me to have jumped the gun and be a god damn fool, so I'd be extremely happy to be wrong. On the flipside it'll just make me feel like I was right all along. There's no downside to cynicism here.
robotzombie
Member
Oh cool you let another statement go right over your head and approached it from an angle of unnecessary technicalities, well done